God and Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc.
 

Hi all,
I currently aspire to be a member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc., I've been working for almost two years to bring a chapter to my campus (90% white), and through hard work and dedication and God on my side it's in the process of happening. Now i have a true love for this organization and all that it stands for, but also i am a man of God and believe all things are possible through him, even being a part of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc. SO i have a question. I heard from a ex-greek who isnt bitter that you cant be part of God's Kingdom and be associated with a BGLO. He says this because the bible says we arent suposed to take oaths of any kind, and something about idol worship. Now im not sure of this myself and have read the scripitures he provided me, but i need the opinopn of someone who love their organization and all the good that they stand for. Can you be a TRUE serverant of God, loving him and obeying his word, and still be part of a BGLO? Please help me!!! My heart is still with Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc., yet God is the master of this ship!

Confussed Interest

Re: God and Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc.
 

His name wasn't Fred Hatchett, was it? If it was, take that advice with an extra large grain of salt. :)

Re: God and Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc.
 

Can someone share with me those scriptures (not opinions or text from other books, ONLY SCRIPTURE, and all of them that deal with this topic; my bible doesn't have a concordance :() if you have them? I find this interesting and would like to study it some more. Where does this leave marraige vows (are those not oaths? Is there a difference b/t an oath and a vow? :confused: ) and the Hippocratic Oath that doctors take? Do lawyers take an oath when they are sworn in at the bar? And if all of these are true, does that mean that there should no marriage, no doctors, no lawyers, etc?

This topic comes up so often, and normally I dismiss it for obvious reasons. But I need to research a little bit to see WHERE this comes from.

Thanks! :)

hmmm....
 

This is a very interesting topic. A couple years ago, before I crossed, my chapter had a program "Greeks and Religion: Do They Mix?" It was a very heated program. There were a lot of people there that sat on both sides of the issue. They felt very passionately about their point of views on the subject. There were about 6 ex-greeks that had denounced their letters because later on in life they felt that their being greek conflicted with their religious beliefs. They were saying a lot of the same things that the ex greek is telling you, and yes they were able to spit out some scriptures to support their point of view. In my opinion I think that you can be greek and still remain grounded in your religious beliefs. However I have encountered some people (very few though) who make their organization their life. They "worship" their organization and everything it stands for, and when I say worship I mean it in a bad way. It is prefectly fine to take pride in your organization, i mean...everyone should. But don't make your organization your "religion". There needs to be a balance, and if you know how to maintain that balance then there should not be a problem. One of the girls at the program, that was in a another sorority, said that she has been able to spread the word of God to people that she probably would never have had the chance to, once she joined her sorority, so she said that is one of the best things about it.

But then there are also the people who join fraternities and sororities that are religious at all and have no desire to be ( I know some of them too:rolleyes: )....but that is another story...

Re: Re: God and Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc.
 

Heres some scriptures i found on my own that talks about oaths and why we are not suposed to take them. I am still confussed myself all along i believe i was destined to be associated with Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc. :(

Jesus said...) Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord."

But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your "Yes" be "Yes," and your "No," "No." For whatever is more than these is from the evil one. Mt 5.33-37 (see also Jam 5.12)

John 18:20 -- "I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing." Throughout Scripture, we are told to imitate Jesus Christ, and let Him serve as our example. Thus, since Jesus Christ never, ever did anything in secret, we are not to do anything in secret, either. The true Christian walk is to be the utmost in transparency possible.

Proverbs 22:26 -- "Be not one of those who strike hands and pledge themselves ..."

Re: Re: God and Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc.
 

Heres some stuff i found that's in the bible. Im still confussed by this i believed that these organizations were built on Christian principles. I know many of Greeks who go to chruch and are very religious. Most them dont drink, cruse, swear, as far as i know and i;ve known some of them for YEARS> Please help, i love God with all my heart but I still strive to be a member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc.

Proverbs 22:26 -- "Be not one of those who strike hands and pledge themselves ..."

John 18:20 -- "I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing." Throughout Scripture, we are told to imitate Jesus Christ, and let Him serve as our example. Thus, since Jesus Christ never, ever did anything in secret, we are not to do anything in secret, either. The true Christian walk is to be the utmost in transparency possible.

Matthew 5:34-46 -- "Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

Only YOU can decide if your walk with God will be hampered by fraternity life. In general, I've seen a fraternity mold a nice boy in a good man and in all of those cases they were VERY in tune with their religious beliefs whatever they may be. There are a number of different vows/oaths that could conflict with STRICT interpretation of those passages. Everything from marriage to Greek life to pledging allegiance to the freaking flag. I don't feel like I've been at all hampered in my knowledge of the Lord by being in a sorority but as others have stated some people cannot do both.

phillyinterest6--

You must read your Bible in context of the entire scripture, not just a few passages. That is my opinion.

Your walk with God must not be hampered into idol worship. And many folks are false prophets too and can lead you astray...

Folks even idol worship in the Church... Following random ministers and their "teachings" that are contrary to the Bible and do not follow Christ's commandments as Christians...

That is "casting your pearls before swine..." So, if this one person that quotes chapter and verse on you, you need to ask this "being" who is he really led by? God?

The below link MIGHT help you....it was long, it was heated, it was bloody...but darn it, we made it through just fine.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...e&pagenumber=1

Re: God and Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc.
 

Unless GOD HIMSELF told you this, DON'T BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!

I believe that one should have balance in one's life that includes God and balancing one's affairs in life. We can overindulge in anything. I too am concious of my commitments, if I can get up early for sorority meeting on Saturday, then I can make it to church as well on Sunday! I also took the liberty to look up the scripture reference for Proverbs 22:26 that he quoted, I believe it is taken out of context. It states: Be not thou one of them that strike hands, or of them that are sureties for debts. (KJV) I don't know what version of the Bible his quote came from- this implies to me, that one shouldn't strike another nor be a servant to debt.

Original Ape's Zoommate was Spiritual too!
 

Hotep Brothers (Sisters too). I come in peace, but I have had a flashback and recall an incident that took place years ago. Now check this out. Once upon a time a group (what was such a group called?) was in a formation and knocked on the door of a mansion of a very well known black minister. Upon the door opening this very group of young men who were all clad in identical clothing presented a verbal gesture (what was this called?) to which the MINISTER responded, "I am NOT MINISTER....I am BIG BROTHER MINISTER....." and due to the SPHINXMAN(No. 1 of the ?) who was in front of me(Deuce Quaz No. 2) being unable to stand the FORCE of a 300+ lb 6'4 GORRILLA and his huge PAWS the group(again, what was this called?) "slipped" down some stairs.:cool:

P.S. Original Ape, you and Professor not allowed to give the answers!:cool:

I posted heavily on this topic in the Omega forum, and I think the answer comes down to what a person really wants to do. I will make a bold statement though. For me, to be the type of Delta that my Sorority would like me to be, would conflict with my relationship with God, and here's why. Delta's do a LOT of work! There is always something to do and always a need to be fulfilled, a committe that needs chairing, and event that needs to be fundraised for, etc. At the same time, there is much to do in the Kingdom of God, and those two things are not the same.

It is more important to me to get people saved than to get young women to join my Sorority. It is more important to meto be committed to being on helps ministry in my church than being on several committes with my chapter. It is more important to me to go into a battered women's shelter, a soup kitchen, a bad neighborhood etc. and lead these folks to Christ, pray with them and give them hope than it is to wear my DST T- shirt and do a good deed to represent my Sorority. It is more important to me to have my heavenly father say "well done thy good and faithful servant, than to hear him say, you were the baddest Delta! God will judge you according to the life you have lived. If you spent more of your time hyping up your Sorority and Fraternity and working for it, than you have exalting his name and winning more souls for the Kingdom..you have to ask yourself will he be pleased....

A lot of people ask me how I balance the two, and the truth is I don't. Delta has and continues to do a lot of good for the community, but just doing good for the community isn't enough. If I meet someone and I'm really nice to them, they are still going to hell if they are not saved. So I actually use Delta as a vehicle to meet people I otherwise would not have met,....to lead them to Christ. Sorors like to remind me that DST is a lifetime commitment, but for me, its just not that serious...

SO in some respects, I believe its very difficult to balance the Sorority (for active members) and a sound relationship with God, because you will end up doing more for one than you will for the other...

But thats just my opinion...;) :D

Re: Re: Re: God and Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc.
 

Are all the divine nine orgs based on christian principles?

if so, then would you [tell] interested members who are not of the Christian religion that information upfront?

(currently not an interest of any of the divine 9...but just curious)

Re: How God Judges!!!!
 

Thank you for your opinions..and you keep doing what you feel God has called you to do..and I will keep doing what I feel God has called me to do. If I were like you, do you know how many people would not be reached because of your demeanor, disposition etc.? You come across as a zealot and although your message may be genuine, many people on here tune you out. One of the fundamentals you miss when trying to witness is knowing your audience...I appreciate your efforts, but when God tells me to denounce, I will. And until then, I'll keep doing what I'm doing. :D

Re: Re: Re: Re: God and Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc.
 

Delta was founded on Christian porinciples, but it is not a Christian-based organization. There is a difference. We have many members who are not Christian.

Re: That is an opinion correct!
 

The same goes for you! You'd be surprised how many people I reach, how many people PM me...so whats your point? If you think there is only one way to reach members of BGLO's, again thats your opinion, but if your work is really about the kingdom, you'd be more concerned with that..then touting your own agenda.

Good discussion!
 

Here is my take on the topic at hand:

First of all, my biggest issue with such orgs claiming that they were founded on Christian principles is that they never tell you which principles they specifically were founded upon, nor do they have a scriptural basis for such principles. Say what you will on this, but I think the whole "we were founded on Christian principles" is nothing more than an PR smokescreen; sounds good on paper, but nothing of substance to support it.

LoveSpell, girl where you been. I missed ya' *hugs*. Good to see you back on GC fighting for Jesus as always. Good points you brought up. As you indicated earlier, I trust indeed that when the Holy Spirit moves you to denounce Delta, you will humbly obey. Keep your head up, and handle your (and His) business.

Iconoclastic, long time no see.

I truly support what you are trying to do, and I agree with it on many levels. However, your problem as LoveSpell indicated, is that your mininstry tends to condemn individuals more than it does convict (and it shows in your book you wrote). I applaud and appreciate your zeal to deliver people from GLOs, however your delivery in your ministry really needs some work. I am not saying to dilute your message(s), but rather I am saying to let His Word and Spirit and your testimony be your driving force to deliver people, rather than letting the end result (hell and damnation) if they don't repent. Now I know that is not what you are trying to convey to GCers, but that is how people are taking it.

Just ease up a little is all I am saying.

Again, great discussion! Keep it comin', yall.

Ephesians 5:11?
 

Hello All, it's me again, Blackwatch. I have been very busy lately with a new job and new ministry responsibilies at my church, so forgive my lack of posts, but trust that my love is for My Fraternity and the beautiful brothers and sisters of the GC fam.

I have been reading this thread with particular interest, seeing as though I am A Christian and a brother of Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity, Inc. This question of whether or not one can truly be "saved" and in a fraternity is I think on some level loaded because you have to first define terms. Different people have different definitions for "saved". Some people think that saved simply means that you are in a loving relationship with God, other cite Rom. 10:9-10 and say that some type of public confession has to take place, others say that baptism has to happen, then yet others will cite passages in Acts to say that you must be baptised in the Holy spirit, as evidenced by speaking in Tongues. Others may have more definitions, but these are the most common ones.

Then there is the question of the nature of your relationship in being a brother/sister of a BGLO (before we go on, I would like to state emphatically that Alpha Phi Alpha is not a greek letter org. -peep Stolen Legacy by George James- but for the sake of argument I am including my dear fraternity among those classified as BGLO's). Do you view the BGLO as a spiritual/ worshipful entity in as much as you have devoted you mind heart and soul to a diety it has set up? Does the BGLO replace or at least answer some fundamental questions about life, life's purpose, and creaton in general? In other words, has your BGLO become your religion? Does your BGLO conflict with your understanding of righteousness? Does it (as an organization) officially sanction some activity or moral code that is totally contrary to your understanding of righteousness, love, and faith? Does it denounce the God of "our weary tears" and the "God of our silent tears" that has brought "us thus far on the Way"? ( My ode to Black History Month :-) ) If so , than denounce (I would wonder why one would join in the first place). But, the last time I checked, none of the Divine 9 orgs. ever told anyone to do anything that would deny the God that they believe in, nor to do something immoral or against SOUND DOCTRINAL teachings of the scriptures (if anyone wants to take me to task about swearing oaths and Mat. 5:33-37 please PM me). Now, individuals in the orgs have done some wild things, but so have individuals within the church, so does that mean we shouldn't associate with the church?

Iconoclast, I tend to agree with the poster that noted that your method of "wining souls" for Christ probably "needs some work". You cannot force morality on people, nor can you scare someone to love God. I think that people who try to "win souls" this way are theologically and ministerilly lazy. One should try to convince the person you are trying to reach by simply posing an argument that is so ironclad that they arrive at the only reasonably sound position, yours. Your arguments so far are falling on def ears because they are not sound, both theologically and apologetically. For example, you are saying that by simply being in a BGLO, a person cannot truly be Christian. This doesn't make since because you are saying that there is something that can seperate a willing person from the Grace of God (Check Rom 8 :35-38 for a rebuff of that notion). You also assert that since someone holds a different opinion on a subject (Your reference to Bishop Vashti McKenzie), they are not of the kingdom as well. Is there any room for any opinion other than yours in the Kingdom? Who's Kingdom is it anyway?
Your scripture references are poorly extricated. You quote Eph. 5:11 about exposing darkness with the truth, yet let's look at this passage in context. Paul is writing to the people of Ephesus, a town in present day Turkey that was a trade route and a gateway to the eastern half of the Roman empire. This caused Ephesus to really be inundated with many ideas about life, God, and religion. One of those ideas concerning religion was sex as idol worship in temples devoted to other "gods". In the midst of this, Paul admonishes the Ephesian church to not live like everyone else, who worship god through their flesh, not the spirit. The "fruitless deeds of darkness"(5:11) concern doing the things that those who do not know the truth would do, cautioning believers to live as if they know better (so to speak). Now, does this have anything to do with BGLO's? Are BGLO's religious orgs? Are they advocating temple sex? Other forms of hedonism? I think not. We as believers, if we are sincerely devoted to spiritual growth and ministry, must be more devoted to responsible biblical teaching and application. We must be careful to not take scriptures out of context. The proper application of a text like this would prbably sound more like this: , "you know better, so live your life like you know better, don't believe in God the way those do that do not know the truth. Be more of an advocate for understanding what you believe and live in that understanding."

Does this scripture require those Christians in BGLO's to denounce simply because of the "Teachings" of the BGLO's? Honestly, I didn't know the Divine 9 had teachings and sages and an official philosophy on God (Doctrines, worship rituals, laity, etc.). Now, does this stop individuals from being influened by the principles that the orgs. expouse? Not at all, but , last time I checked, none of the orgs have posited themselves as religions, destined to do the work of "Satan". Any view of these orgs that surmises this conclusion is purly THE OPINION of the person holding it. So if someone else disagrees, you have to convince them (not condemn them because your arguement doesn't hold up) of the TRUTH of your stance, if there is any truth in it.
Just my 06 cents worth,
Blackwatch!!!!!!

Re: Ephesians 5:11?
 

Cush, I like your new name. It means Black right? As in the Land of Cush was called that b/c the people there were Black right?

SC

This is my 1st post, I was reading the seriousness of this topic and I figured I had this joke that would lighten up the mood in this room. I hope you all enjoy it.

One day a SIGMA arrived in heaven and God greeted him at the gate and
welcomed him into his new home. God led him to a blue track home with a
white roof that was surrounded by pretty flowers. The SIGMA knew he was
in heaven and was so pleased.

The next day a KAPPA arrived in heaven and God greeted him at the gate
to take him to his new home. God brought him to a cute Creme ranch style
home with a Crimson roof that had sugar canes all around and even stained
glass pictures of kanes on the windows. The KAPPA loved it and thanked
God and went in to enjoy his new home.

The next day an OMEGA arrived in heaven and God greeted him and took him
to his purple mansion with a gold roof. There were beautiful and
elaborate pit bulls and great Danes everywhere in the neighboring fields
and the OMEGA loved it!

Then all of a sudden the ALPHA looked up the mountain and saw sitting
on its peak the most beautiful palace he had ever seen! This BLACK
palace had an OLD GOLD roof and roaming all about were elegant and
distinctive men with with much class. In the driveway were BLACK
Mercedes and there were BMW's with OLD GOLD leather interior. A pair of
BLACK and OLD GOLD Bentley's were parked in the garage that had ALPHA PHI ALPHA
on the tags and elaborately written across the front of the
palace were the words ALPHA PHI ALPHA. The OMEGA got all rude and
started yelling, "WHY DO THE ALPHA'S" have that huge palace!! That's
not fair.



God turned to him and said, "Brother Man, that's MY house, I am ALPHA"!!!!

Welcome to GC!

At first, I thought you were your frat brother Dexter. He's straight MIA!

That's what I thought as well.

God and Alpha Phi Alpha and GLO's
 

I agree very much with Love Spell about God asking you about the number of souls that you led into His kingdom. I'm glad of that reminder myself.
We are to do things which glorify Him and not necessarily a GLO. and as you know, we are to love Him because it's not about the "works". All good things come from Him and we are to acknowledge that. It seems that if all credit is given to GLO's then people may not see Christ and give Him credit. We were made in His image, so all of the great things that we do represent His handiwork, but we have to verbally say it because people will think we/ they are doing everything on their own and we/they don't need Him. Some people feel that there is alot of self-glorification and pride going on within many community service groups. How does God feel about excessive pride?
This topic is very interesting and very controversial. I know that the Bible states that you should seek Godly counsel. That is what I think that you should do. If you know a minister or pastor who can refer you to more scriptures (because you should read it for yourself) then that will help.
Also, you can pray, fast, study the Bible, and ask for guidance.
Other people that I think would be good to talk to would be people that are very knowledgeable about the Bible, and have other sources of information. They may be in some of these groups: Seventh Day Adventists, members of (something like this) the Hebrew Israelites, Black Muslims, and Christians. I mentioned the Adventists and the (something like that) Hebrew Israelites and Black Muslims because these are movements. Although I think that you should refer to the Bible, some of them seem to use some other resources, they can provide you with personal, instructional, as well as Biblical principles on these issues which might convinct you.
Family members of mine are separated on this issue. Personally, I truly felt that it would be ok for me to join AKA, and I felt that it would bring me closer to God, and I still have a ways to go. I did not understand why, but it was a conviction. Many of my sorors are church members and I attended a church service with them today, as a matter of fact, prior to a special event.
In my opinion, God must be trying to reach you.
Alot of times people say that others can see the Christ in you through your lifestyle, and the Bible refers to Christians possessing the fruit of the spirit. If you do become an Alpha, people will see who you worship by your attitude and actions, and when they inquire about it, you've got to let them know. Best wishes, and I hope you'll let me know what you hear. I'd like to know.

you want to rate this thread? God and A Phi A
 

You get my vote for an excellent thread!

www.ephesians5-11.org


all former freemasons and eastern stars who are now born again believers


as a former q i know the mason connection in my ritual if you look you will find it in yours too


and i am not Min. Hatchett i was never a mason my granddad was

What is an Ex Greek?

I'm not looking for a literal definition; I just have never heard of a BGLO member (even inactive ones) just dismiss the org. altogether or write to the org and officially renig their membership.

Has anyone heard of that?

Yes. It happens, but I suspect more do it informally than formally--you know in case they change their minds later. :rolleyes:

Yep. Too "lazy" or too "unconcerned" to return their stuff to NHQ.

Some of them are "unlazy" and "concerned" enough to auction their stuff on EBAY and send 'nalia to Goodwill, though.

They would have no business being on GreekChat now would they?

But thank you for your constant concern.

OP: Just remember that no matter what happens, there is is only ONE TRUE light of the World.
And he is Jesus Christ.

The OP has not been around since 2005, when he started this thread. Hopefully in the intervening 8 years, he has moved on.