The homothug
 

Hey everybody!

I don't know if you read the most recent
VIBE(with missy on the cover) but it talks about the new type of homosexual man, the homothug. Meaning that the man wears his timbs and talks the talk and walks the walk, but he double dips on the side and 100% believes he is not gay(how they justify this is that if they are the ones "givin it" they are not the gay ones).

It is very scary to think that this is going on, but more men double dip then we know. With the women not even knowing what the heck is going on! What are your thoughts on this?

And I must tell you ladies, there are a LOT more gay rappers in the industry than you think!


QTE

http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif

I'm going to leave this one alone for now...

I just finished reading Invisible Life by E. Lynn Harris. Thats all I could think of after reading your post. Its true, these days we have to be careful about who we put our trust into, you never know whose "double dipping" and putting lives in danger.

I just finished reading Not a Day Goes By by E. Lynn Harris. That is some serious stuff. I'm going to read all the others esp. since I checked out his website www.elynnharris.com

It give excerpts from all of his books. The new one, Any Way the Wind Blows, comes out on the 10th of this month. This gives me an idea for readers and regular GChatters!

------------------
"Director" #2
LaMarque Alumnae Chapter
Spr 99

[This message has been edited by DirectorDST99 (edited July 07, 2001).]

Sorors, I've heard more and more about this topic over the last two years. Studies have shown that black men who come out of prison often times continue to enjoy sex with men. After they go back to their wives and/or girlfriends, they go out and see their boyfriends or miscellaneous men. This is one of the causes of the increases in black women with HIV.
This is why we can NEVER judge a book by its cover, you never know what someone HAS or what someone DOES. Most gay men do NOT look or act like the stereotype...beware.

I had to say something. I say this with all due respect and I know you said that these "homo thugs" (I detest that phrase, by the way) are just one of the reasons behind the increase of AIDS/HIV cases in African-American women.

True, men who have sex with both men and women and don't protect themselves (which not all of these "homo thugs" do) are a risk to every one of their sexual partners. And I think it's important to focus on the way people engage in at-risk behavior.

However, AIDS/HIV is not a "gay/bisexual" disease. Gays/lesbians/bisexuals do not even account for the largest number of AIDS/HIV cases in the black community. Heterosexuals account for the most cases.

But I notice (in general) black folks' willingness to jump on the "these so-called gay and bisexual men are a problem" bandwagon when it comes to discussing AIDS/HIV.

Nobody gives half as much attention to heterosexual men and women who "two-time" and "dip out on" their partners and thus, expose their partners to the possibility of AIDS/HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases. Beware of those folks too, just as much as you would of gay or bisexual men/women. Everybody wants to focus on the GLBT community of color like it's the biggest source of the problem. It's not. Lack of communication about sex is a problem, regardless of sexual orientation. Lack of comprehensive sexual education is a problem. The fact that our communities use sex to sell and market everything, while being very conservative and unwilling to frankly and intelligently discuss sexuality is a problem.

I am not pointing fingers at anyone in particular here on the board. I just think that people need to get past some of their "issues" with the gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender members of our community if the real fight against AIDS/HIV/STDs is to begin and be effective.

That being said, DELTAQTE, I am not at all surprised at that list you provided. If nothing else, it is only logical to think that at least a handful of hip-hop/R&B entertainers are GLBT.

While I thought that the Vibe article was a piece of trash (in terms of journalistic quality) and very short-sighted, I am glad that people are beginning to openly talk about a phenomenon that has quite frankly, existed for quite some time.

For more on the homosexuality and hip-hop topic, here's another article:

http://www.whoo.org/entries/00000006.shtml

Please, everyone, be mindful of the nature and sensitivity of this topic. We don't want to appear to be censors, but we also don't want graphic content and language on a message board that carries the name Delta.

Thanks. I hope you all understand, if not feel free to e-mail me. And, sorors, if I'm leaving anything, any point out, please correct me.

------------------
"Director" #2
LaMarque Alumnae Chapter
Spr 99

Actually, the list was not only on our radio show, but on a few other radio shows across the country. They didn't say the name outright, but you knew exactly who they were talking about.


Director, I know we have to be careful about this topic, but it is also something we as black women must be aware of(no matter how much we try to tiptoe around it). I care very much about this subject, because one of my good friends was with a man for 4 years and found out 2 months ago that he was bisexual.

If this topic has scared some of you...good!

Please be careful


QTE

I took offense/became chagrined at the title choice for your thread. It is eye catching but it is disrespectful.

I agree that this is an important issue. It was first bought to my attention when I heard Soror Rae Lewis Thornton speak about her life with AIDS. She touched on some of the same issues that Brand Nubian expressed.

Most importantly, no matter if you are a heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, etc. please practice safe sex.

I'm curious, how is it disrespecful to you? Or do you just cringe at the word.

And it wasn't meant to be "eyecatching" by any means. The Vibe article was titled this and it was a very good article.


QTE

It is not disrespectful to me per se, as I am neither a homosexual or a thug. However, I believe that since this board is about respect for self and others, I thought the title was disrespectful to the homosexual population.

If I remember correctly from conversations that I had about this topic on another forum, not all of them are "homothugs". We as a community are so judgemental that our attitudes and beliefs make it difficult for some of these people who are caught between being a homosexual and a heterosexual to be honest with themselves about their sexuality. For some of them, they straddle the fence their whole lives in fear that they will be ridiculed for their choices. I constantly think of Basil, the pivotal character in E. Lynn Harris' books who is this fictional character but there is a lot of truth found in his character. How many other men and women, not just musicians and athletes, are living a life of fence straddling when it comes to their sexuality.

Actually, I never thought of HIV/AIDS as a problem specifically in the Gay, Lesbian community. I was always fully aware of the threats that come from promiscuous heterosexual sex, but it never really dawned on me until I read E. Lynn's book that there are some who hide their orientation thus putting lives in danger. I'm naive like that. But I'm glad this discussion has been brought to the forefront, it just adds to my reasons for practicing abstinence.

And that is the point Nubian, gon head girl http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

I understand what you mean now Crimson, but there is a difference between what you are talking about and what this topic is about. There is a huge difference between being SCARED to come out the closet and HIDING it from the person you are with. It just goes to show that the sterotypical homosexual person is not always the case.

Just to let you know, I am a very strong supporter of the rights of the gay community(thanks to my 4 best buds I mentioned up above). One thing we always argue about though is if being oppressed as a gay person is the same as the oppression of blacks. I told my friends heck no it isn't, they disagree. Anyone care to voice an opinion?

QTE

DELTAQTE, Notice I edited my post. I read that thing about 4 times but was reading it WRONG..LOL. I thought you said your friend was a man....I missed the "with a man" part...LOL.

There is a book by the name of B-Boy Blues, this book centers around exactly what this topic is about. The E. Lynn Harris books are really soft compared to this book. When I first read this book a few years back I had to put it down a few times because it was so up close and your face. But one of the main characters didn't see himself as being gay since he wasn't getting "poked" and had a child. If anyone else has read this book, tell me what you thought.

------------------
Holla - 2001
KL

Kim, who is the author of B-Boy Blues?

James Hardy

There's a yes and a no to my answer. In the aspect of gay people dealing with stereotypes, prejudices, and discrimination I feel that the oppression is the same. On the other hand I feel that the two are totally different and I'm kind of upset that your friends would even compare black people and gay people. I really didn't want to bring the bible into this discussion but I have to. Homosexuality is a sin. Being black is not. The two should never be compared when it comes in this aspect. I truly believe that people aren't born gay and that they can overcome the urges to be homosexual. All it takes is prayer. On can not change the fact that they are African American.

I've been trying to hold out on this discussion because it kind of hits home for me. It seems that there are a lot of gay people on my campus and a lot of people who are hiding there sexual identity. Guys that we least expect to be bisexual, are. My friends and I are scared to date anyone because we don't know who they really are. This topic is scary and it's serious. We as women would love for these men to be honest, but they have to be honest with themselves first. Half of them are confused, they have identity problems, they sleep with a lot of women to cover up the fact that they are gay, and some truly believe that aren't gay. The whole idea upsets me because just when you think you know someone you get slapped in the face with issues like this.

CT4,

Thanks for the author name because I could not for the life of me remember who wrote the book.




------------------
Holla - 2001
KL

When discussing homosexuality...I choose not to bring up the bible because I know that lying, fornicating, lusting,adultery, gossip etc...are also sins and one is no bigger than the other. In God's eyes thay all weigh the same.

Recently (within the past year) I have had several friends tell me that they were gay all of these being females. Some fam and some close friends. I read that story in VIBE and it rings true because some of my friends said when they go to the gay club you would be shocked. There are guys in there that you know are married with children, professional men, and round the neighbor hood - just left the b-ball court guys.After that I am cautious of everyone. One of these friends told me to treat all guys as "gay until proven straight"

No, I don't think that being gay is the same kind of oppression as black people face. The other day my brother and I were just talking about this and he said "you can go to a job and hide that you are gay or no one will know unless you tell them (my friend told me she has been this way for over 3 years)but you can't go anywhere and hide that you are black".

Some of my friends say they think it is just a phase for them while others don't even want to see a man. I myself think it is just a phase for some of them too. Sorry for the long post. That's my $19.13

[This message has been edited by Tanzanite (edited July 08, 2001).]

We should be just as weary of promiscuous heterosexuals. However, the topic of discussion is the homothug, not the promiscuous heterosexual. Most women are already weary of a man who sleeps with other women...but, what we WOULDN'T expect, is for our man to sleep with other MEN. My purpose is to bring greater awareness...not repeat known truths.

I figured as much. If they didn't say the name outright, there was probably a reason.

i wasn't going to acknowledge this topic until i saw this post. i would like to say that i am glad that my sister Brand Nubian (love you Baa) put the statistics on the table.

as we know...the bible talks about several things that are sinful and one doesn't out weight the other as a soror stated.

to sister friend candygirl...the two can be compared, imagine being a lesbian and black. that is three strikes against me...being a woman, being black and being a lesbian. assuming you are indeed str8...you can not say that people are not born gay. i knew from a youngin' that i was very interested in the same sex. growing up in a world were women are pressed to find a husband, i led a life were i dated men and don't regret it, but as i got older and wiser, i found what made me happy.

E. Lynn and James Earl Hardy are very much real, even Queer as Folk is very realbut some of it is very false, too. the Vibe article was poorly written and only present a very small piece of the the gay world.

Basically beware of who you sleep with, period. you need to know the 411 on any person that you let enter your bed.

------------------
Delta Alpha
Spring 94

http://www.plauder-smilies.de/devil/firedevil.gif
_________________________

Evil knows where evil sleeps~~Nigerian Proverb

[This message has been edited by MaMaBuddha (edited July 08, 2001).]

I just spilled my dang apple juice!

Dang Mama I had no idea, thanks for posting on this!

Yeah my gay friends tell me that Queer as Folk is ok, but not all fun like they portray!


QTE

I have a few points to make for clarification:

1. The issue is real; there's nothing wrong with the issue at hand.

2. While we post under the Delta forum, we must be careful how we select our words. There was/is some graphic language. Yes, we're all adults [I hope] but some language should be kept in private convos.

3. If we're going to post about people's lives/lifestyles, make sure we have the facts because we cerainly don't advocate gossip around here.

4. Homosexuality and bisexuality is REAL! Yes, we need to be aware of what's going on. I believe E. Lynn Harris' books capture the very essence of this topic and we all should be reading his books - it's real!

I think someone mentioned that AIDS/HIV are more prevalent among heterosexuals and women. I agree. My theory behind that is because so many men are "double dipping" as they say and being secretive about it. THAT is what puts us in danger. The statistics are off about what's really going on because there are ALOT of closet bisexual men.

Some people think of bisexual as having 2 sex organs (m/f). Does anyone else think that? I don't. I've just been in conversations with people who truly believe bisexuality is having 2 sex organs.



[This message has been edited by DirectorDST99 (edited July 08, 2001).]

LOL@Director!

Girl I'm sorry that confused you, my friend who is a GIRL found out her man was bisexual. Not a man friend of mine http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

I was reading in another BGLO forum about how they have gay family members and how it's not talked about in black families like it is in other communities, I agree with that one!

GOSSIP? Oh no not us!(big smile)

QTE

MaMabuddha I totally agree with the fact that no sin is greater than the other. I also stated that black people can be compared with gay/lesbian men and women in the aspect that they endure discrimination and prejudices from ignorant people.

I send my sincere apologies if I offended you in any way. I'm pretty sure I'm ignorant to the lives of gay/lesbians but my opinion on the situation is based on the fact that homosexuality is a sin. One can be delivered from fornication, lust, adultery, and gossiping through faith and prayer, so why can't the same thing be done for those who are homosexual. That's why I made the statement about people not being born gay and overcomong homosexaul urges.

You made a statement about women being pressed to find husbands. Is that one of your reasons for being gay? If you don't mind me asking.

Soror:

Let me start by saying I am not posting this to offend anyone or bring harm to our organization. I am only stating facts.

I read B-Boy Blues because a soror, who is a lesbian, bought it for me and gave it to me as a present so that I would better understand/accept her lifestyle. It is pretty graphic. It is an ok-written piece of literature (sort of on the lines of Omar Tyree and Jerome Dickey) but if you have any questions about the lifestyle it may have some answers for you.

Again, this specific soror bought it for me to teach me tolerance because I wasn't that accepting of her and her lifestyle when she came out to me. I had several gay, white male friends while in graduate school and thought I accepted this lifestyle.

But once faced with the true reality of it - someone in my sorority was also a member of this lifestyle - I wasn't as tolerant or open-minded as I once believed I was. I guess it hit too close to home - as long as I had a white face associated w/ gay/lesbian lifestyles then I was cool. Once my "sister" came out...I shut my eyes and ears and turned my back on her.

She and I haven't spoken in years and I am not even sure how to start building our friendship again.

candygirl, it takes a lot to offend me and none of your statements have done that. i am just putting you in the know.

now i ask you where in the bible does it say homosexuality is a sin?

Quote:

You made a statement about women being pressed to find husbands. Is that one of your reasons for being gay? If you don't mind me asking.

that is the one of the oldest questions in the book of being gay. i don't deny that there are people out there that may use that excuse, but not me. i have not reason for being gay...i just am.

DSTPRL (hi soror http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif )

what you printed can never bring any harm to our beloved sorority. This is a topic that effects all of us whether we are gay or str8. it is better to know the truth then to continue to live blindly.

B-Blues was written by a gay man for gay men. so you see the LIFE through his eyes. i can relate to alot of things in the book because it takes place in NYC and the events are very real. it might answer some people questions about black men and the homothug, but not all. it was a sappy love story, that brought tears to my eyes. Mr. Hardy has a part 2 out called "if only for one night"

DSTPRL...that soror that you shut your back on, give her a call. try to get in touch with her. coming out isn't easy and not everybody is in your corner. we that live in this lifestyle have already had to built a tolerance for those that try to shut us down and we are still here. i am sure she will be glad to hear from you if you are willing to try to contact her.



[This message has been edited by MaMaBuddha (edited July 10, 2001).]

About 3 months ago I read an article in USA Today which talks about the same issues but it referred to homosexual men as "DL (down low) Brothers". This article gave a few explanations as to why black men hide their sexuality. It talks about how difficult it is being black in White America but to be black and gay is twice as difficult. This article also touched on how the African American community views homosexuality as a taboo. Receiving absolutely no support from their own kind they feel the need to hide their sexuality.

I am not stating my opinion on anything just merely paraphrasing the article and I do encourage you to read it for yourselves.
http://navigation.helper.realnames.c...2&uid=30002676


------------------
"To whom much is given, much is required."

Or you can go to www.usatoday.com and conduct a search on DL Brothers.

1st Corinthians 6:9
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

My bible translates effeminate as perverts and homosexuals.

Romans 1:26,27
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural uses into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

My pastor uses the last verse but I don't fully understand it myself.

candygirl, i am familiar with the passages you brought up and i was prepare. i can't tell you how many times those passages were quoted to me.

since my answers to them would be too long check out the links below.

happy to be a homo

learn the facts about bible and the homos

these are the same passages used over and over again

i even threw in some extra passages that seem to condemn homosexuality, but in the bible it's all about interpetation.



[This message has been edited by MaMaBuddha (edited July 11, 2001).]

Okay MaMa, I read the information on the sites you listed. I do agree that interpretation plays an important role in how we use the bible.

We can go on and on with this and we'll still have our own opinions.

Thanks for enlightening me from the perspective of someone who is gay.

Hello Sorors:

I read this article about two months ago and was pretty disturbed although I understand the reasons why some choose to hide their sexuality.

Let's also not forget that another issue is the identification of being "gay"

I can't speak for women but because I work with a lot of gay men, the problem also lies in the fact that if a man does not identify himself as gay, then he may not feel compelled to inform others of his sexuality.

This pertains men who are "situationally" gay (i.e. the brothah incarcerated who needed affection while he was locked up), but also men who think they aren't gay because they are not the receptive partner
(in lieu of Soror Director's post, I will not say what I WAS going to.)

Although some detest the term "homothugs" it is simply used to describe these brothahs who are "caught" in a space where they identify with the hip-hop culture (very mysoginistic, etc.) but are indeed sleeping with men.

They definitely don't identify as being LGBTG or GLBT (LGBT) if they don't identify with being simply "gay."

It's deep and yes it is one of the MAIN contributing factors to the high rates of HIV/AIDS amongst the heterosexual African-American female population. Not that there aren't those that contracted the disease from heterosexual partners who cheated in another heterosexual relationship, but those incidents aren't nearly as numerous and the others.

Anyways,

Just my $19.13.

Peace.

First up, I want to say thanks to MamaBuddha. I love you girl http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif and big ups to you for representing. I don't think I could have said it any better than this:

"the Vibe article was poorly written and only present a very small piece of the the gay world.

Basically beware of who you sleep with, period. you need to know the 411 on any person that you let enter your bed."

I will say that, according to the Centers for Disease Control, men who have sex with men do make up a significant portion of HIV/AIDS cases. But, also according to the CDC, the biggest risk to women and women of color is heterosexual sex, especially heterosexual sex that involves sex with with infected drug users.

But beyond all that, beyond all the advice that folks should beware of these "homothugs," I do have to wonder about the real solution to the real problems. Of course, individuals are responsible for their own behavior. I am not an advocate of excusing personal responsibility in favor of blaming systemic factors. But systemic factors, beliefs and institutions do play a large part in this "homothug" phenomenon.

Perhaps these brothas wouldn't feel the need to be on the down low if African-American culture as a whole (and society at large) was more accepting, validing and affirming of something other than 100% heterosexuality. Perhaps if homosexuals weren't ostracized and oppressed on the daily, they wouldn't feel the need to lie about and repress who they really are.

Until we start opening up the communication about sex and sexuality, and begin to acknowledge and affirm the people who may not have the same sexual orientation as "the norm," the phenomenom of down low brothas will be around, as it no doubt has always been around.

I, too, was disturbed by the Vibe article; first, because of the one-sidedness of it and poor quality and second, because it indicates complex problems within a culture that need to be addressed.

I apologize for the length, but that's my $19.25.

CAN YOU REALLY BE A THUG IF YOU ARE TAKING IT UP THE BACK?

That depends on your defenition of a thug. If you are going by images (although you can't really tell what is behind the image) then no, one could assume that you could not be a "gay thug." However, a thugh is a thug is a thug, and sexuality can't define that.

112

You're right: NO ONE should lead a double-life. And I suppose if we lived in a perfect world, nobody would. But we don't.

As for the homothug issue, I think that the African-American community's attitudes towards homosexuality have a lot to do with the fact that so many African-American gay men, lesbians and bisexuals are reluctant to reveal their identities. If you knew that you would be discriminated against, ostracized and oppressed by your own people, I think that perhaps some people would think twice about being open about who they are.

It would be nice if everyone had the luxury of being open about themselves, but everyone doesn't. And frankly, (going back to negative attitudes about homosexuality) when a GLBT person comes out, they do have to worry about their safety, or sometimes their lives.

Like I said, I think people should take responsibility for their personal actions. For instance, nobody makes anybody engage in sex without protection. That's a choice they make.

But our society's and community's part in this is not lost on me at all.

And no you can't force anyone to like or accept you or the things you do or the decisions you make. However, there is the certain issue of basic human respect. And, honestly, a lot of gays and lesbians don't get that basic human respect from people in their own communities. And that's just real.

Just my .25 cents.

I do not think the issue of the homothug has anything to do with whether or not the African American community is accepting of homosexuality. If someone chooses to hide their sexuality, that's their business. Do not play the heterosexual during the day...and go out to gay male bars at night. That is as, or even more, deceptive as a man who messes around with other women. NO ONE should lead a double-life...and homosexuals are no different. Whether they are forced into secrecy or not, that is something they will have to deal with. You can not force others to accept, or have to deal with, your lifestyle.