Bernard Kerik to Be Secretary of Homeland Security
 

This is breaking news, and great news. Bernie will get the job done right.

Well
 

It'll be hard for me to trust ANYBODY who use to be the chief of police for NYC as CORRUPT AS THOSE GUYS are. They make the Nazi's look like the Backstreet Boys.

Re: Well
 

HEY! Have SOME respect for New York's Finest! :mad: Not every New York cop is a jackbooted proto-Nazi thug, and neither are they all corrupt. Twenty-three members of NYPD perished on September 11.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/memorial_01.html

BTW, Bernie was the Police Commissioner ("the Commish") - the title of Chief of Department goes to the highest-ranking uniform officer in the NYPD.

Re: Well
 

Its hard to trust anyone who makes ridiculous statements like this. The NYPD is systemically corrupt? Back it up with a credible citation. Can't do it? I thought so.Not only is your post deeply ignorant, but its insulting. You've demeaned all who suffered from the Nazis with a ridiculous statement. You've also insulted the finest police force anywhere. New York now has the lowest crime rate (according to the FBI) of any large city in America. What have you done to make the lives of people better and safer? Nothing? I thought so.

Re: Re: Well
 

Fuckin' A well said, Bubba! :D

That is a great news - I think he's the right person for the job.

Personal attacks for my opinion. But I'll show you how to argue the right way.

AlphaSig, I respect the men and women who gave their lives during 9/11. But the people I'm talking about are teh ones in the higher ups.

Russ, I'm not killing and robbing people so in that respect I've made people's lives safer.


Now back to my post.

Board, take it from a NEW YORKER! I've seen this force at it worse. There is good in this police force but.... there is bad, REAL BAD. The problem is the higher ups don't give a rats arse so they're going to turn the other way.

I've seen NY finest take bribes, shoot unarmed men, heck you got them sodomizing people in the bathroom of their own police departments.

Heck the Central Park 5. Five teenagers who were forced to admit to raping a women when the evidence didn't point to them and they had to spend 10 years of their lives behind bars. Thanks to the Recent DA on that one. NYPD didn't help in that matter. We're talking about the powers that be, not the beat cops. There is a difference. That is where teh corruption that I talk about.


Russ, does Louima and Diallo ring a bell to you? Trust these weren't the only two men who were mistreated by the NYPD, this police department is just as bad as the LAPD. Both are VERY CORRUPT. Take it from a NEW YORKER (Coney Island/Brooklyn) I know of what I speak.


Now notice I didn't slam anybody or disrespect anybody on this board. Now if you would like to dispute it, then have at it people.



BTW, my older cousin is a cop. I know of what I speak (if you didn't catch it the first time)

Re: Re: Well
 

Once again, Louinma(sp) and Diallo. Please look up their cases and how this was handle. Remember Diallo's case (trial) was ushered out of the city under BS pretenses.

At least give me time to respond, I don't sit here all day.

Re: Re: Well
 

Doesn't the NYPD have big scandals every 20 years since its inception?? --according to my Police in America Professor--who is also a lieutenant of the DPD, NYPD is notorious for corruption.

OK . . . so you have a couple concrete examples, then a sea of emotional arguments, a horrific non sequitur to begin, and non causa argumentation - not quite the lesson you'd planned, but I think there's still some good points here to be addressed by others.

However - it seems the corruption is implied to be above the beat cops, but does that mean it extends to the top? Where's the proof of that? (also, you haven't posted any real 'proof' of corruption past anecdotal evidence, but I digress)

Also - even if the NYPD is completely corrupt, how on earth does this affect his service to the dept of Homeland Security? I mean this, too - I'm not being flippant.

Exactly. One should keep in mind that if any group of 40,000+ people are assembled, some will be corrupt. This doesn't mean that the entire body of people is corrupt. There is some low level corruption, but that's no secret. There are corrupt people in every GLO, that doesn't make GLOs corrupt. There are some rare, but isolated cases of mid level corruption in the NYPD, but they occur at the precinct level.

There is absolutely no credible evidence, not even anecdotal, that there is top level corruption in the NYPD. If there was, it would be on the front pages of at least one of New York's five English daily newspapers. If there are any remotely credible allegations of systemic corruption under Bernie Keric's watch, we'll hear about it in the Senate in the coming weeks.

Looking past this baseless tempur tantrum, Bernie Keric will be questioned about his ability as a manager. The Department of Homeland Security is not considered to be well managed, and Bernie Keric's reputation was not made on management.

He is known as one of the finest crisis managers on the planet. He also has experience with intelligence. The NYPD did a better job of following Al Qaeda than the CIA did, considering the scope of their resouces. He also has the reputation of being an inspirational leader, something that will be very useful with the currently demoralized DHS.

Finally, Bernie Keric projects the image of someone who is in control, something that his predecessor did not. This will be helpful when communicating with the American people. As long as he remains free of BS (and he probably will,) the public face that he puts on the DHS will be his greatest strength.

I don't question anyone's corruptness. Everyone loves greed. Many people are not good people. I don't think you will find a single police force that lacks corruptness and greed though. Heck I don't know many government people that do either.

Bernie has abused his powers JUST LIKE OTHERS. One example is having his officers do research for his book. Another is having Fox reporters arrested because his literary agent thought they stole something from her. He is also a man that comes not from the good life, if you will. His mother was a hooker that was murdered by her pimp I believe. Does it make any difference? I'm sure for some it does.

Everyone is dirty. You have Kofi Annan and his son bathing in the blood of Iraqi children and some might say they're great, good hearted folk.

-Rudey

I know that his mother was murdered when he was a little boy. I have no idea about her being a hooker. He also dropped out of high school, but graduated through correspondence classes. Nothing came easy for Bernard Kerik.

Diallo and Louima were two of the saddest chapters in the history of the NYPD and New York City. Louima was the result of one, perhaps two. rogue cops behaving in the most horrendous and disgusting way possible. Regarding Diallo, I think that the NYPD has made efforts to educate their officers to prevent a repeat of that tragedy. There is no justification for either situation.

I actually thought that Raymond Kelly might be nominated for this position.

"It was not until decades later, while writing his memoirs, that he discovered his mother had been an alcoholic prostitute who had been murdered in Ohio."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4065105.stm

-Rudey

But the problem lies here. Alot of that crap doesn't get reported adn who do you think sweeps this stuff under the rug. My Drill Sergant had a saying that ISH flows downhill. Meaning it all comes from the top. Somebody is held responsible, leadership has it's responsiblities. You (the head honcho) are responsible for what goes on and the punishments should be swift.

My concrete examples are more than enough. This is absolutely terrible to begin with. Now should the man in question be punished for each and every one of them no? but please respect the fact of me being a New Yorker and not being comfortable with this.

I can respect that. It was your Nazi comment that I find disgusting, and way out of line.

Shortfuse may not have gone about this in the right way. The accusations may or may not be true. I can certainly think of more subtle ways of saying them.

However, NYPD is not without some history of heavyweight corruption.

Remember Frank Serpico? That wasn't just a movie.

From New York Magazine:

"Serpico Testifies


May 3, 1971
When: October 1971

Background: For years officer Frank Serpico testified against bad cops, collected evidence against corruption in the New York City police department, and repeatedly failed to get superiors to act on his allegations. He wasn't a popular guy in the precincts.

Getting nowhere inside the system, Serpico contributed to an April 1970 New York Times expose that reported that police were earning millions of dollars a year from payments from drug dealers, mobsters, and even small businesses. The story leads Mayor Lindsay to form the Knapp commission the following month to investigate the charges. A year later Serpico is shot in the face during a drug raid but survives. Officers do not call for aid and Serpico believes he was set up.

"A high-ranking police official said later, 'that when word came in that Serpico had been shot, this building shook. We were terrified that a cop had done it'."
— From the May 1971 New York article, "Portrait of an Honest Cop" by Robert Daly"

One would certain hope that NYPD has stayed "clean," but it is a huge bureaucracy and there are lots of opportunities for greed, graft, bribery, etc.

Because the department acted heroically on 9/11 (which it did), does not mean that it is squeaky clean throughout. The "Blue wall of silence" make it pretty hard to prove wrongdoing in any police department.

Nor does an assertion by Shortfuse that it is corrupt mean it is so.

However, attacks either way by those of us with no real proof really get us anywhere.

I will say that since my early trips to New York in the 1960's, the Department has certainly done a lot to foster a better image in terms of friendliness and cooperation with the public -- evry NY cop I've worked with while doing projects there has been great -- but so has the rest of the city.

I have a huge amount of respect for NYPD, but it's not blind respect.

So, that automaticially means that you know of every police officer and what he/she does while on or off duty? Because you're older cousin is a cop. My older brother is a cop. So therefore, I can speak of how there isn't corrpution., right? Makes sense...using your logic and all.

There is greed everywhere. Hell, I saw greed while working for The Nature Conservancy. There isn't an organization out there doesn't doesn't have corruption.


All that being said, Kerik is probably the only appointment by Bush that I agree with; maybe now places like DC, NY, NJ, etc will actually get more funding to fight terror than Montanta.

Looknig back at it I might have spoke out of emotion

(comparing them to Nazi's)

So I can roll with that. See it's all in good conversation. Thank god the internet allows me to talk to people like you.

Kerik Withdraws His Name for Top DHS Job
 

By KATHERINE PFLEGER SHRADER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Bernard Kerik, New York City's former top cop, withdrew his name from consideration to be President Bush's homeland security secretary, a victim of the embarrassing "nanny problem" that has killed the nominations of other prominent officials.

The surprise move late Friday sends Bush back in search of a Cabinet official to help guard the nation against another terrorist attack.

While assembling paperwork for his Senate confirmation, Kerik said he uncovered questions about the immigration status of a housekeeper-nanny that he employed. As homeland security secretary, Kerik would oversee the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency.

The rest of this article is here: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...erik_withdraws

Damn... No Bernie for Homeland Security... :(

Who's next? Rudy doesn't want it, but was pushing for Bernie.

We really need someone who can get stuff done in this position.

Nannie gate arise again.

Yeah, that was just really sloppy on Bernie's part. He should have known better.

Speculation is (NY Times today) that a number of media and other agencies are onto additional problems that almost certainly would have come out in or before confirmation hearings.

Don't know what those things might be, but they could have something to do with misuse of city employees.

at least it wasn't the British Nanny

Hmm interesting,


see remark about corruption.

Oh no need to apologize or say that I'm right. I understand completely.

Maybe you should read the posts above before you suggest that particular people appologize. And, when you quote someone, do it to someone who disagreed with you.

A few people were willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe that won't happen next time.

Besides, the alleged misuse of city employees is pure speculation at this point.

Why don't you put the soapbox away and wait until something is proven?

:rolleyes:

Untie you panties first ummkay. (response to your soapbox accusation.)

1. Didn't say it was you who disagreed with me. i was just using your post it said something about wrongdoing, which supported my initial post (except the nazi reference, that was wrong on my part). If you felt that I was attacking you then just come out and ask me about it and I'll be gladly to explain my position and reason for using your quote.

2. If it wasn't true then he'd still be there. Something had to be wrong it had to be wrong on his part. Where there's smoke there's fire. He pulled himself out before it really got big. Speculation my arse.

My reaction is that your reply to my post, with a quote, basically asked for an apology. I don't think I owe you one, since I didn't take issue with you. I also didn't say I agree with you. If you want an appology from someone else, don't ask for it with my quote.

As for the alleged misuse of public employees, to this point, nothing has been officially charged or proven. You are still making comments about charges that have not been made. If you have an opinion, label it as such.

In the end, that kind of thing may prove true -- but it won't factual bacause you say so -- only when someone offers real proof.

The nominee admitted to hiring an undocumented person and potential IRS irregularities -- not anything to do with corruption.

Shortfuse do you know of anyone that isn't corrupt and qualified for this position?

-Rudey

Irregularities, is that what we're calling corruption these days, LOL! Hey, the dude withdrew his name for some reason, but that is neither here nor there now is it?

Once again, never said you owed me an apology. I'm also not looking for one from you. The apology comment was more in jest then anything. I'm sorry that it hurt you feelings nad you took it personally.

Look I spoke on dude from my point of view, if you can't tell that it's an opinion then that is YOUR PROBLEM, not mines. Hell, most of the stuff posted on this forum is OPINION.

Actually I'm done with discussing your little quote with you. I told you I didn't mean for it to look like you disagreed with me and I wasn't just putting you out there.

Back to the Thread.



Rudey, personally I don't think we NEED a HOMELAND SERCURITY DEPT. What happen on 9/11 wasn't because we didn't have a HOMELAND SERCURITY DEPT. it was because the Intelligence Agency that we did have didn't do their jobs. We should start working on making better what we HAVE ALREADY! Start hiring more police officers and training them how to sniff out small terriost cells. Creating a entire department to do what we had 10-20 other departments doing is just showing us lip-service. What happen on our soil has happen what? 2 maybe 3 times in the last 100 years (I could be wrong), it's not like people are flying planes into our buildings once every 6 months. The terriost haven't struck because we formed a department of Homeland Security. They're just waiting for the right time. I think man himself is corrupt for the most part. Yeah you have some good ones but for the most part Power corrupts. But that's my opinion (for the SLOW ONES WHO NEEDED FOR IT TO BE SAID) and I won't call it the truth.