Is this child a sociopath???
 

I work with children at an elementary school in the special education department. The kids I work with have learning disabilities & some are ADHD & ADD. There is one particular boy who is really starting to freak me out. I do not know what to classify him but I have started hearing the term sociopath in relation to him. As far as I know, I didn't think that children could be classified as sociopaths but this one is starting to make me wonder & research the subject. He's in the 3rd grade & his behavior has always been a problem but lately, it is getting scary.
Examples of things he's done are as follows:

1. Grabbed a little girl & pushed her behind a building where he proceeded to kick her repeatedly. When found, he told the police that he knew it was wrong but he wanted to hear her cry. He did it because he knew he could.
2. Admitted to me & the other teacher that his fish died b/c he wanted to take them out of the water & watch them die. I fear for the animals in his neighborhood.
3. Threatens to "kick his ass" to any other child he dislikes. He uses language like ass, shit, fuck, and bitch. Laughs when he is reprimanded about the use of that language in the classroom.
4. Laughed hysterically when the mother of another child was killed in a car accident. Thought it was funny that the other child now had no mom.
5. Choked another student in the boys bathroom b/c he wanted to see him turn blue. The other student is fine but his parents have since removed him from the school.

These are just a few examples of a long list of his behaviors. These aforementioned ones have happened since September of this year alone. We have set numerous conferences with his parents but they refuse to believe anything is wrong. They blame us for his behavior. He knows the difference between right and wrong but he has freely stated that it's more fun to do things that hurt other people because it makes him feel good.
I don't know if I'm overreacting or if this is something that could be a problem in the future. Any thoughts???:confused:

..... holy mother of god. I think what that kid needs is a good exorcism and some counseling.

I can't believe his parents feel nothing is wrong. Is this an affluent neighborhood or middle class or what? Parents separated? Any evidence of abuse?

No. All that has been looked into. He's been with us for the past 3 years & he's been retained once. He's from a lower middle class family & they seem normal. We've done surprise visits & neighbors tell us that with the exception of this kid, the rest of them are hard-working & generally nice people who go to church every Sunday.

Any way to research his behavior outside of the classroom without getting too nosy?

But yeah... that kid needs some help.

There's only so much we can do. I know he saw the school psychologist last year but he told us that everything was fine with him. He was just overly excited.:rolleyes:

Re: Is this child a sociopath???
 

Yes.

Yepper. That's really fucked up that his parents are in denial.

When I was a little girl, there was a bigger boy who sounds very similar to that boy. He scared everyone. Despite encouragement from many sources, his parents refused to get him the psychiatric help that he desperately needed.

As a teen and an adult, he had numerous run ins with the law and had been institutionalized a few times. He spent many years suffering from untreated mental illness. He was not a functional member of society until recently when he finally got help.

I hope that this boy's parents heed the advice to get help. There are doctors and medicines that might be able to treat him. Otherwise, I see years of misery for this boy, his family, and anyone he decides to hurt.

MY aunt works with kids with disibilities like this. I copied it and forwarded it to her.

Re: Is this child a sociopath???
 

Technically these things wouldn't get him diagnosed as a sociopath, but that's not to say that he should be watched very carefully now and in the next year or two. The physically violent behavior, lack of emotion, and the cruelty to animals are what stands out to me the most because they are a couple of the critera one has to meet to be diagnosed as a sociopath, in general.

As bad as it might sound, the language isn't a huge red flag, I know boys in my 3rd grade class who did the same thing, my brother included. Doesn't really factor much into the description of a sociopath however.

I would suggest talking to whoever is in charge of your school, making them aware of the problem, and then having them inform the parents. I don't know if you're in the position where you could just call the parents and let them know, but it seems like a smarter move to not do that independently. A therapist would be more helpful at first and if severe problems are found he can always be sent to a psychiatrist later on. Before giving the kid meds, he needs to be able to tell someone why hurting people feels good to him and have them actually listen to him. Also knowing what his family life and life outside school are like will probably be important. Only after all that is done would I suggest a psychiatrist.

Sorry this was long and if it made no sense. Good luck!

It made good sense. The language isn't a big deal when compared to the other incidents we've had to deal with. I only hope that his parents smarten up and soon or he's headed into some major problems.

can he been seen again given the recent events?

I'd say he's well on his way to becoming a serial killer. Seriously, many serial killers exhibited certain behaviors as children, including animal abuse, bedwetting, and playing with fire. Jeffrey Dahmer tortured and killed many animals as a child.

It sounds like he hasn't had any "consequences" to his behaviour - obviously not at home or at school (um...I would think any of those actions involving hurting other students are causes for expulsion).

If you have no say in whether he stays - I say work on the little bad behaviours first, taking away "priviledges" in class and then work up to working detentions - scrubbing grafitti, etc. Setting boundaries of right and wrong, cause and effect might stall the little future serial killer.

:( Good luck!!!!!!!

Once a child has had severe problems like this, other schools & districts will not take them in. Basically, our schools are crowded & no one wants to take in a child like this. We're stuck with him for better or worse.
I hate to label him a future serial killer but with actions like the ones he's been exhibiting, unless something drastic happens soon, I don't know what will become of him.

As for the priviledges, he doesn't have any. He's already lost all the priviledges we could possible take away from him. The only other thing we could possibly take away is his food during lunch & that's abuse so our hands are tied until the district & school decides what will happen with him.
*pulls hair out in frustration over red tape in school districts*
California schools can really suck sometimes.

This child meets all of the requirements for inpatient psychiatric hospitalization. The criteria is that a person is dangerous to himself or others. This child is definitely dangerous to others and needs immediate help and treatment. The lack of conscience seems to be showing a trend toward sociopathy. He needs to be hospitalized. I can't emphasize that enough.

From the ACLU California web site:

What are the grounds for suspension and expulsion in California?
A school may suspend or expel students for the following reasons: being habitually disobedient; damaging or stealing school or private property; threatening or causing physical injury to others; possessing weapons or other dangerous objects; selling or bringing drugs or alcohol to school; doing something legally "obscene;" being involved in "habitual profanity and vulgarity;" disrupting school activities; intentionally defying the legitimate authority of school officials; or smoking in school. You may also be expelled for engaging in acts of sexual harassment, for hate violence, or for creating an intimidating or hostile educational environment.

But, under California law, school officials are supposed to try to correct bad behavior - rather than suspend or expel you - unless a student’s presence causes danger to people or property or threatens to disrupt school activities.


If I were a parent with a child in this school or a child who was injured by this student, I would be raising hell to get him OUT. Other children's safety is at risk.

Dee

That's dangerous behavior. School districts can refer kids to the county mental health facilities, right? They could in Milwaukee county. Refer this kid. It will only get worse. Documentation is key. Write up everything he does.

Dee is right!

The State of California can have someone put in a 72 hour hold for observation for threatening to hurt themselves or anyone else, or if they hurt themselves or anyone else. Your school psychologist and administrators should know about that.

He does sound like a sociopath to me.

Did anyone see the SVU episode last week? A child turned out to be the killer and at first all you saw was a beautiful kid with sad eyes and then you saw something much different.

I would send the parents an anoymous note saying he's on his way to kill people or himself. Definitely on his way to be a serial killer. I would call children services, SOMETHING until he gets a real diagnosis.

I would be TERRIFIED if my child was in his class and would DEMAND the kid be treated.

I'm mortified that there is nothing that can be done.

he definately needs some psychotherapy! i can't believe that the administration isn't doing anything about this!

be careful... if he does this sort of stuff to little kids and helpless animals, he won't stop there!

Re: Is this child a sociopath???
 

I would really like to know WHAT school district this is (at least the state) so I can be sure none of 1) my children, 2) my nieces and nephews (none of whom are living in Iowa) or 3) anyone I know and love are in the same class as this boy.

Your district needs to understand that THEY are responsible for his actions whiel on their property. If something happens to another student, the district could be liable for millions of dollars in damages because they knew of his behavior and didnt do anything about it.

I'd speak to the districts attorneys. They will take it seriously.

Yup sounds like a sociopath to me and if his parents don't get their isht together and get him help, he will be well on his way to being the next Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy

I PMed you. Things aren't always as they seem.

There is a meeting scheduled after the Thanksgiving holiday with his parents, teachers, school psychologists, & someone from the district. We're hoping that a solution will be found a.s.a.p. b/c we can no longer have him in our classroom or our school. The other children do not like to be around him and most are afraid to go near him. We're basically telling the parents to either voluntarily take him in for evaluation or we'll do it & they could find themselves in legal trouble. From what we've heard from other family members, the parents are deaf, dumb, & blind to his actions & no punishments have ever been given out. I think this could also be a case of neglect.

Agreed. This type of behavior is NOT normal, and this kid needs professional help ASAP. It's just too bad that his parents are too blind to see it.

I agree that sometimes things are not what they seem especially when it comes to students wil needs, but after choking a child unti he turned blue, why didn't the school expell him? If he is seriously harming other students then something needs to be done.

My mother would say that this child apparently are abuse--probably sexually. Most sexually abused children display behaviors that you have mentioned. And many of the wounds are not readily visible...

The fact that the parents are in denial about their child's behavior ought to tell you all that there probably is something going on in the home or somewhere in the child's life for the child to act out in that sort of behavior.

Most third graders are 8-9 years old??? So, how would an 8 year old want to see that "fish" die out of water or make another child "blue" in the face by strangulation--unless some older child (youth) or adult showed this child...

The point is that it may not necessarily be the parents--especially if they are hard working lower incomed... It may be one of the older sibilings that are physically or sexually hurting this child...

To solve this problem with minimal amount to drug intervention and to allow the parents to save face is to put this child into some heavy duty mentoring program with professional organizations that will teach this child appropriate behaviors... But with evaluation, the school psychologist and principal can make that determination along with the parents...

And unfortunately, it is out of your hands--you have done your job. And might I add, you have done it pretty well...

UPDATE
 

I completely forgot to update about the situation here. Shortly after the meeting, there was another incident involving this boy beating up another child over some snack foods during their recess. The victim had to have reconstructive surgery on his mouth to repair the damage my student inflicted. After the Christmas holidays, he never returned to the school or the district. We know he has not returned to school in the US b/c no one has called us to ask for his information as is the law. We subsequently learned that his mother finally figured out that we were trying to get him removed from the household and into some serious care when she hightailed it to Mexico. The relatives she has in the area simply say they are doing well in Mexico and have no plans to return.

It's sad to say he's no longer our problem but part of me feels relief that I no longer have to battle him or his belligerent family, part of me feels terror at the thought of what might become of him in the future if he doesn't receive proper care and treatment, and lastly, I feel sad that we could not help him.

I feel bad for the kids in Mexico who have to deal with him...:(

"sociopath" is generally used to describe one of the 10 recognized personality disorders: antisocial personality disorder. Personality disorders are not generally diagnosed in third graders though. Here's the good ol' DSM-IV checklist for something called "Conduct Disorder"

1. A repetitive and persistent pattern of behavior in which the basic rights of others or major age-appropriate societal norms or rules are violated, with at least three of the following present in the pas 12 months (and at least one in the past six months):
a. frequent bullying or threatening of others
b. frequent provoking of physical fights
c. using dangerous weapons
d. physical cruelty to people
e. physical cruelty to animals
f. stealing while confronting the victim
g. forcing someone into sexual activity
h. fire-setting
i. deliberately destroying others' property
j. breaking into a house, builidng, or car
k. frequent manipulation of others
l. stealing items of nontrivial value without confronting a victim
m. frequent staying out beyond curfews, beginning before the age of 13
n. running away from home overnight at least twice
o. frequent truancy from school, before age 13

2. significant impairment


That "school psychologist" should be removed of his license and certification