APO and other GREEKS
 

As I was reading my online subscription to the Hilltop, Howard's School Paper, I ran across an interesting article:rolleyes: . Here it is...

http://www.thehilltoponline.com/news...e-798104.shtml

I Saw a Sigma Holding a Cane...
Published: Tuesday, November 9, 2004
Article Tools: Page 1 of 1

Tamir Mutakabbir

It is almost never a bother for me to respond to something that I have read in the HILLTOPICS. But I must clear things up so that people will have the right picture of things. I know that many people who are not in a Greek letter organization may not understand what different organizations represent and are forced to come up with their own opinions. As a member of one of the organizations in the NPHC (National Pan-Hellenic Council) I have to speak about this.

My first point is that if you are not in the "Divine Nine," do not mimic us! I am tired of being confused as to whether a "frat " from across the Yard is doing my call or some other organization. If you can't go to another school and do your call and get a response, don't do it at Howard fronting like you are "Pan-Hell." The benefits do not extend past the Howard bubble like it does to us.

To respond to those who were shocked to see the Sigmas stepping with canes at the step show, who was the first to step with canes? Do you even know that the Sigmas were the first to step with canes? But don't take my word for it. Do some research on your own about the "Fraternity of Firsts"(Phi Beta Sigma).

I understand that the Fraternities (Pan-Hell) are not as big in number as they used to be back in the day. There would be hundreds of Alphas, Sigmas, Kappas and Omegas representing at Howard. Nowadays, my opinion is that there is a different breed of Black men who are not worried about bettering themselves and the community through fraternity work. That is another issue.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Now apart from his obvious ignorance on Non-NPHC Greeks and their customs and his blatant uncomfortableness :rolleyes: with Non-NPHC orgs doing a call, which probably have more initiates within one line than his org has had since the turn of the century on our campus, and his fragrant need to feel like someone has to be apart of something in order to help their community...

I was wondering, have anyone experienced on their campus other Greeks challenging APO legitimacy as a whole or on certain things?!?!?

News @ 9
24 Survivors of the APOcalypse
Zeta Phi
Spring 2003 Alpha Line

P.S. Cas, I think that you may need to school your Frat up at Howard
;) :cool: ;) :cool:

P.S.
 

And I don't know about everyone else, but I find that the ones that always have something to say about APO were either trying to be down or want to be down now. Case in point, the guy that wrote this article came to our rush:confused: :confused: :confused:

Disclaimer: Now I know that he was speaking in general in the article, but for some reason, I think that Zeta Phi had something to do with the article because we have some brothers that have too much Frat spirit!!!:D

Re: P.S.
 

do tell...

Okay.....

That person is an idiot. All it takes is a QUICK visit to Moorland-Spingarn to see the HISTORY of APO at Howard to understand WHY Zeta Phi does certain things.

Get a grip....the reason why more black men aren't pledging isn't because they don't want to better the community....it's because if they ain't get beat by their fathers, they for damn sure won't get beat by their peers!!!!

And hell, look at who is already IN some of the orgs.....

Anyway....if he's worried about a call and stepping, then he for damn sure pledged for the wrong reasons.

im so sorry on behalf of my brother. ignorance is in every frat. See this brother has some issues, he states that people should research to understand why people do things but he fails to research himself. In sigma we pride ourselves on being a fraternity of first but we only can do that by researching things. But just because we are the fraternity of first it gives us no right to down someone for doing something that may seem like somethign some else does. We need to ask why they do that or just let them do what they want, i mean im sure its not the same meaning as ours, plus there isnt to many things you can do with a hand.

This brother clearly wasnt taught right. He does not understand the true principles of phi beta sigma or her would know that uniting not dividing, being exclusive not inclusive. ( i think i mixed it up lol) he must be a young brother of a brother who was taugth wrong. Once again i would like to appologies for my brother at Alpha chapter.

Follow-on Articles.
 

Here is a response from a brother of Zeta Phi chapter of Alpha Phi Omega.

http://www.thehilltoponline.com/news...t-806068.shtml

And the response to *that*
http://www.thehilltoponline.com/news...h-811423.shtml

Wish this wasn't happening, but APO is definitely holding its own!

Sorry I can't post the text, but my normal at work webserver can't find the site, and the place I can look for it (on my VAX/VMS box) doesn't exactly allow easy cut and paste to here.

Randy

And it STILL seems like these idiots haven't taken that brief trip to Moorland-Spingarn.

I am SOOOOOO over this debate.....if they are worried about specs, line numbers, calls, whatever, then they are CLEARLY not handling business on their yard.

And if ANY Alpha at HU has a problem with APO, you refer them to ME.

Seems like Sigmas
 

Kevin Bembridge who posted the most recent perspective is a former president of Phi Beta Sigma at Howard. So its gone PBS -> APO -> PBS.

And given their mention of Brother Young, I looked up which NPHC brother Young was a member of, you guessed it, Phi Beta Sigma.

http://www.pbsfcu.org/ (He is a board member Emeritus of the credit union) This is the only mention of him as a brother of PBS on the net.

Love to get numbers as to who has more on the yard, Zeta Phi Beta Sigma or Alpha Phi Omega. :)

Re: Seems like Sigmas
 

Oh, you know there's no question! But if you want numbers, I'm sure the current ZP undergrads can provide.

Well last year Zeta Phi reported 32 actives for AAMDs and had 43 initiates. So 75 minus graduating seniors. (and any that have gone inactive...
(and 11 pledges this semester)

No clue on ZPBS...

Randy

Hi Brothers,

This is Veronica-Marché, the brother who authored the APO editorial in the HIlltop. For clarification, I wasn't responding just to the PBS article, but to general situation on campus that I, personally, am sick and tired of.

Now that my editorial has drawn such a disrespectful response, I find it necessary to settle this situation once and for all. Not through campus media, but face to face as real (wo)men should.

To my seasoned brothers: What is the best way to approach this? I refuse to allow someone to disrespect my APO and have them even think they can get away with it. Or is this something that needs to be ignored? How do we address this situation and still maintain our integrity and position on this campus? Some people are saying "Let it go," but I can't. I was first speaking for cooperation, understanding and respect on campus, but now I have to defend my frat.

I wrote to the Zeta Phi Brother
 

I wrote to the APO brother who posted the perspective message in response. Her name is Veronica-Marché Miller and her email is in the Perspective Article.

Gave her thumbs up, offered her help and directed her here if she wants to look.

YiLFS
Randy

My advice is to ignore it as long as it doesn't interfere with your safety or operations as a chapter.

If you MUST address it, hit them with the history -- Moorland Spingarn has all the answers. Check the yearbooks. They will see that APO chanted and sang on the yard on Fridays just like everyone else.

I mean, the freakin president of the school is in APO and Omega....I don't understand what the problem is.

By the way -- Alpha Phi Omega stands on its own merits. No need to "defend" it. That's what people with gang mentalities do.

First of all, apologies on the out of place post, my comment about directing you here was delayed until I finished getting dinner ready so I missed that you had already responded.

Some ideas, and I'll state that I don't know how many of these would be incindiary, how many would be useful and how many are duds. You and your brothers know the situation there much better than I.

1) First of all, I don't think a brawl on the yard is the best course of action, even if you do outnumber them. :)

2) Find out how many of the Zeta Phi brothers since the recharactering have actually done what he said. Went Alpha Phi Omega and then a Noble Nine. I don't think there is anything wrong with that if you stay active in both (Hi Rashid!), but if the numbers are small, you might want to use that in response.

3) You might want to mention brother Lucius Young by name, giving more particulars, I find the fact that they said that Brother Young simply was a member of an NPHC organization sort of strange since he is a brother of PBS.

4) Age, Alpha Phi Omega is only 3 years younger than SGR and certainly older than IPTh. And as best as I can tell, the first of the organizations that exist & pledge/intake at Howard is Kappa Kappa Psi (Band Frat) which predates APhiA (though not at Howard of course).

5) Ask whether Race matters... Does the fact that our founders were white make them any less as founders of a fraternity?


The answer may be to ignore, but I'm still throwing these out as ideas....

Randy

oh believe me
 

I made sure that it was taken care of... I didn't get my line name and alias for nothing....:cool: :mad: :cool: :mad:

i know some people may not agree with my idea, but it is something that i have turned over in my head for the past couple of days. i read this article over and over and the more i read it, the more ignorant that it became.

if you feel that you dont have to defend APO, then do nothing. if you really feel like it bothers you that much that something needs to be done, then do something constructive and not detrimental to your chapter.

i am by no means a passive brother, nor am i an inciteful, riotous brother, but i am a lil' crazy. my choice would be something that meaningfully "gets in their grill". simply challenge them to a debate or host a forum. you obviously already have an audience, and its something that will give both sides the opportunity to speak their mind, but more so gives you the opportunity to speak the truth.

i am a brother who also happens to be a member of Noble A Phi A, and from that perspective i can see a lot of ignorance in what PBS is saying. no one smiled when black greeks donned letters and colors and called themselves greeks, so how can you come from a black frat and persecute someone else in the same fashion that your founders were? thats disrespectful to them!

lastly, there was a statement made in regards to "giving you some insight to the nature of your org". how stupid is that?! well, im going too far. you get the picture. i hope you find a peacefull and meaningful resolution to the problem.

x

just to let your know i will be contacting the Alpha chapter of PBS to discuss these issues, i think this is an embarrassment of my organization and i can not stand for it

Setting the Record Straight (by another nasty number nine)
 

Edwina S. King

First, let me address the "mimicking" issue. Alpha Phi Omega NSF and its chapters mimics no organization. We do not accuse Pan-Hell of keeping us "down" because we never looked for any organization to "uplift" our fraternity. Each action performed by brothers of the Zeta Phi chapter are actions that brothers initiated into the chapter since its initial chartering have performed. If one would take a trip to the Moorland-Spingarn Center, you will find Zeta Phi, as my grandmother would say "marching to the beat of their own drum"

As apart of our rich history, for 56 years, brothers of the Zeta Phi chapter and (other chapters since their respective chartering) have had probate shows, paraphernalia, calls, spec's, numbers, sung on the yard at 1:00 pm, etc...(if you don't believe me, check old yearbooks and speak to old Howard University alumni from the 40's, 50's 60's and 70's). My organization has no desire to imitate or emulate what other organizations do. We do not "front" or "stunt" as if we are "Pan-Hell".

Alpha Phi Omega NSF prides itself on developing leaders who set the precedent not followers who replicate the actions of others. We simply have the desire to uphold our traditions that we hold near and dear to our hearts. So if that means that one of my brothers chooses to wear an Old Glory Gold and Royal Blue jacket with their line name, (The online version stops the paragraph there. :confused: )

Secondly, Alpha Phi Omega NSF has no intention or desire to join the National Panhellenic Council. Alpha Phi Omega, NSF refuses to be apart of a "council" because it was our founders' intention for Alpha Phi Omega to be an inclusive fraternity rather than exclusive. Many of the founders of my organization were members of other organizations and the trend has continued to date. Case in point, the only African-American president of my organization and a charter brother of my chapter, Hon. Lt. Lucius Young, was not just a member of an NPHC simultaneously, but he was a member of your organization, Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc. We encourage and support a brother's decision to join another organization whether it is Pan-Hell, music, honor, or create an organization of their own.

Third, my organization derives it principles from the Boy Scouts of America, not to be collegiate Boy Scouts. Through our principles, we develop leaders, promote friendship (with brothers and non-brothers alike) and provide service to all of humanity, not just White or Black people. Although my organization was founded by 20 men not 14 who so happened to be White, their message has transcended the lines of race, class, gender or creed. You may only see Zeta Phi brothers on campus calling, chanting and wearing 'naila, but we perform numerous acts of service annually, without being mentioned in the paper, without praise, and without complaint. So, before you question anyone in my fraternity's principles or objectives and what we do to uphold them, first look at yourself and see what you do to uphold your own. I had the chance to read your organization's mission statement and it clearly states,

* Encourage a closer and mutually beneficial working relationship with fellow Greek-letter organizations, other community service organizations, business and government.

Do you honestly think that you are upholding your organization's mission by disregarding other organizations? Think about it!

Every organization that exists on campus has a purpose and my organization is certainly no exception. If we had no purpose on campus then we would not continue to have initiates annually. If we had no purpose, then we would not have three campus building named after brothers in the organization, all Zeta Phi brothers. All organizations including Alpha Phi Omega have right to express themselves as they please without being accused of being something they are not.

If you have any further questions about what Alpha Phi Omega or Zeta Phi chapter does or does not do, then I encourage you to do one of two things: Go Online or Get Online!

Read your history book!
 

I love it when people want to start stuff and dont look back into their history books as to what REALLY happened. I dont understand why people feel the need to give their .02 Cents on something that they didnt even bother to research. Im am no where near this area (I wish I was I miss home....) but no matter the region people are forever spitting off at the mouth and not doing their research prior.

At my school since it is a PWI - no one really knows about APO b/c we keep a low profile and we do not have a large amount of black members in our organization. Once again people dont know enough. Im hoping in the next year while I am at ECU to educate people on what this organization is about so that the respect can be gained and earned and so hopefully that what is happening right now wont happen at my school!

Keep your head up bros (:D FINALLY!) You know that you have the support WORLDWIDE!

Re: Setting the Record Straight (by another nasty number nine)
 

You know that I had to say it:D

Nasty nine...and you know this man!

Thanks...
 

Cas

thanks a lot...you really didn't have to do it, but if you did thanks again...

Yeah they did a poor job of editing...because they said that the article was too long... the hilltop also neglected to state that it was my opinion and not that of the fraternity or chapter.

Re: Seems like Sigmas
 

Hope ya'll don't mind me stepping in. But what is Zeta Phi Beta Sigma??

Re: Setting the Record Straight (by another nasty number nine)
 

I can agree with you 100% about this statement Rashid. This reminds of the situation of my initiate chapter's name being discussed in a Pan-Hell meeting due to the fact that someone in the NPHC at Johnson C. Smith University felt as though it is not right that we wear line jackets and other tyes of paraphanelia. I will not mention the organization of the ignorramus. Just know that you too certainly have something in common. :)

If there are any questions, I do not have my own computer so if any brothers want to talk please contact me at 843-260-0789. Talk to you soon.

Re: Re: Seems like Sigmas
 

Zeta Phi Beta Sigma is a term I've heard used for the combined membership of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity and Zeta Phi Beta Sorority. Since ZPhiB is all-women and PhiBS is all-male and they are legally bound, it seemed appropriate to compare them with the co-ed Alpha Phi Omega

Re: Re: Re: Seems like Sigmas
 

Hmmm...it's not appropriate to compare the membership of a co-ed organization with organizations that are single sexed. While we are bound we are seperate organizations and the term Zeta Phi Beta Sigma is not to be used since no such organization exists. Thanks! :D

Responded privately to Epitome1920.

I wanted to respond here so there is no future confusion:

Seeing that I'm a Zeta and have been for quite some time, I am well aware of the usage of the term on websites, t-shirts, etc. However, the place to start is with anyone I come in contact with who continues to use the term. When referring to the Blue Family, please refer to us by our proper names: Zeta Phi Beta and Phi Beta Sigma.

And since the article was supposedly about Sigma and Alpha Phi Omega, why was Zeta even brought into the conversation??

Sorry for the disruption but I will speak whenever I see "Zeta Phi Beta".

Because I assumed that Zeta Phi Beta would support Phi Beta Sigma in the event that this argument in the newspaper got uglier (or even physical), especially as the Alpha Phi Omega brothers who have been vocal on this have been female.

Did you find the mention due to a search on greekchat? I've found the search less than satisfying since it refuses to accept phi as a search term due to its length...

Randy

As a member of Zeta Phi Beta I support my brothers when they are correct. I don't support ignorance, I don't care who it is. And there is a Sigma brother who posts on GC from Alpha chapter, Short Fuse. He is more than capable of responding about the actions of his chapter or a member of his chapter. And once again Alpha Phi Omega is co-ed, Sigma is not so I don't understand your comparison.

And no, I don't do random searches of "Zeta Phi Beta". I was reading this particular thread and came across the item.

BINGO!


First off, I find it COMICAL that people would talk about numbers from a UNISEX org to a org that only brings in MEN (take that how you want it). Now I will be contacting the brother in question who I know personally. It's a younger generation and his actions were unexcusable.

Sensuret I, I feel that you should chill off of the pot shots that you've been taken at my chapter. If you or any PERSON felt THAT disrespected feel free to contact me or meet me on campus.


Somebody wanted to be down? Well I can't say if that's true or not but so what? I'm 100 percent sure it WASNT the guy who wrote the article. I mean it's not like APO doesn't have cats who CAN'T get into a Greek letter org.

Finally, Nobody from another org is going to "school" my chapter on anything.


As far as getting physical, there is no reason why any member of Phi Beta Sigma would get into it over a silly article that a lone wolf wrote out of silly frustrations.


I've sat by and watch this shit go on long enough. Please lay off the LOUD TALK.


If this offended any of you, then GET OVER IT.


P.S. there is NO SUCH THING AS ZETA PHI BETA SIGMA AS A ORGANIZATION. Talk about ignorance.:rolleyes:

Getting physical? We're not going to hit women. But throwing blows should be the LAST thing on your mind. I'll talk to frat who wrote it and it'll be done. But let's chill on the threats that YOU can't back up.


Have anice fucking day.

Can't We All Just Get Along (Apparently not...)
 

Re: Can't We All Just Get Along (Apparently not...)
 

I had to quote this so I could read it. The bright colors were killin my eyes.


But when people are bashing my Chapter, I can walk onto ANY BOARD I PLEASE.

I'm not into beign taken seriously, you do or you don't. I don't live my life so OTHERS can respect me. Didn't pledge Sigma for others to respect me. If you had the same attitude then you wouldn't have gotten your panties in a bunch about this article (notice how APO wasn't mentioned in it?). Oh well.

I didn't mention anything about getting physical.

I didn't make any threats.

I was talking about speaking face-to-face as mature adults.


God Bless.
~Tru :)

I have not taken any pot shots at your chapter. If your chapter runs the yard, so be it.

Yes Im NOT CRAZY AND BLIND! I didnt think that you did - but thank you for confirming that. :D

It's me again, and I have a question: Did anyone really read my article?

I don't understand all the negative attention this is getting, especially since my reason for writing the piece was to foster understanding and communication among organizations. I didn't personally attack anyone, I didn't call anyone out. I'm just disappointed that Greek organizations (not just the two conversating on this board) are at each other's throats. It's not just Alpha Phi Omega and Phi Beta Sigma. It goes across the board.

So, once again, here is what I wrote. And if ANYONE has a question, please contact me. This was not suppose to blow up into the ruckus it has become.

* * * * * * * * *
I knew nothing about Greek organizations until I stepped foot on Howard's campus in 2001. It was in my freshman year that I learned about fraternities and sororities and realized their place on a college campus and in -- quoting the famous slogan - "the global community." I learned that these organizations were more than just colors and a call; their purpose, though stated and pursued in many different ways, is to serve and to foster kinship in their ranks.

But as I learned about the positive things that every organization had to offer, I also saw discord, disapproval and sometimes, downright disrespect between different Greek letter organizations. It became even more apparent when I became a member of one. It was alarming at first, and now, it's just disappointing. I'm elated when I see friendships and partnerships between different organizations, but that is often overshadowed by the negative energy thrown back and forth between groups. Instead of appreciating each other's strengths and working together to enhance life at this university, the very organizations that are supposed to exemplify the college experience (in scholarship, leadership, service, friendship and other aspects) are trivializing and tearing down each other. Friends, we have got to do better.

It's fine to have pride in your letters and actually, I'd be highly concerned if someone didn't. But it's never okay to question why someone else chose other letters. It's never okay to dismiss another organization because they are "unknown," because they are small in numbers, or because they use canes when they step or because of any other inconsequential reason. People join their organization because they felt it was right for them, and they should be able to display their love for their letters without question. One should give the same respect that they would like to be given when it comes to their organization.

It's true that some fraternities or sororities may not be as well known as others at Howard. When I wear my letters I'm asked questions from people who haven't heard of my fraternity, and I welcome them because some genuinely want to know about it. But an organization's lack of celebrity doesn't make it okay for others to disrespect it. To those who criticize and question the existence of "unknown" Greeks, realize and understand that somebody somewhere doesn't know about your organization.

Realize also, that non Pan-Hellenic organizations are not "fronting like [they] are Pan-Hell." It's clear that they're not. Rather, they are defining their own images, setting their own traditions and building their own legacies. The benefits of being in a non-NPHC organization do extend beyond Howard, just as much as they do if one is a member of the NPHC. Every Greek organization on this campus is a part of a national (or even international) body with tens or hundreds of thousands of members that impact the world outside of Howard.

Every organization fills a need. They are all unique, with different goals and ideals, and yet have the common purpose of fostering brotherhood or sisterhood on a college campus. They should only have to be concerned with fulfilling their purpose, serving their communities, and not with defending their colors or calls. Divine Nine or not, they each have a place on this campus, and they all deserve respect for what they do.

LOL.... My bad. I wasn't talking to you Miss Kittie, but to Shortfuse.

:)