No Canada safe haven for Democrats
 

OTTAWA, Canada (Reuters) -- Disgruntled Democrats seeking a safe Canadian haven after U.S. President George W. Bush won Tuesday's election should not pack their bags just yet.

Canadian officials made clear on Wednesday that any U.S. citizens so fed up with Bush that they want to make a fresh start up north would have to stand in line like any other would-be immigrants -- a wait that can take up to a year.

"Let me tell you -- if they're hard-working honest people, there's a process, and let them apply," Immigration Minister Judy Sgro told Reuters.

Asked whether American applicants would get special treatment, she replied: "No, they'll join the crowd like all the other people who want to come to Canada."

There are anywhere from 600,000 to a million Americans living in Canada, which leans more to the left than the United States and has traditionally favored the Democrats over the Republicans.

But statistics show a gradual decline in U.S. citizens coming to work and live in Canada, which has an ailing health care system and relatively high levels of personal taxation.

Government officials, real estate brokers and Democrat activists said that while some Americans might talk about moving to Canada rather than living with a new Bush administration, they did not expect a mass influx.

"It's one thing to say 'I'm leaving for Canada' and quite another to actually find a job here and wonder about where you're going to live and where the children are going to go to school," said one official.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLIT...eut/index.html

A year??!! I could be dead by then!!!

Just kidding . . . :p

I've got two years of college left, so I'll put in my application in, oh, six months.

http://www.marryanamerican.ca/

They need to go to THIS website.

"ABOOT THIS SITE"


Quality.

Re: No Canada safe haven for Democrats
 

It's one thing to say 'I'm leaving for Canada' and quite another to arrive here and be slapped in the face with our brutal taxes.

LOL

Funny site with some funny quotes.... I love the one:
"turning in your guns for beer at the border".

Yes. Shitty, shitty beer.

Re: Re: No Canada safe haven for Democrats
 

shit, some of these guys wanted to model our health care after yours, but with even worse bottlenecking and inefficiency and minus the comprehensive benefits. scandinavia the US ain't; we can't do it.

Excuse me?

Them's fight'in words :)

maybe you can stay where you are, just take a look at this map ;) ...

http://www.polarismine.com/newcanada.gif

That map isn't totally correct, Bush took Alaska and not Illinois. Funny though.

LOL...we get Disneyland!! :D

How about we trade you California for Alaska & Illinois? ;)

that's fine. my goal is to go through teach-abroad programs.

Whew, safe in Kansas TOTO, but who wants Kansas except Dorothy and clicked thos damn ruby slippers. Rubys my ass, just a lot of pasted sequens.

God take Cal. If not careful will be OTWs neighbors and then Mountain Beach area in Colorado!

Damn a 10 hour drive for fun in snow and sea!:cool:

I'd still have to move :(

Electing to Leave
A reader’s guide to expatriating on November 3
Posted on Wednesday, November 3, 2004. Originally from Harper's Magazine, October 2004. By Bryant Urstadt.
Sources
So the wrong candidate has won, and you want to leave the country. Let us consider your options.

Renouncing your citizenship

Given how much the United States as a nation professes to value freedom, your freedom to opt out of the nation itself is surprisingly limited. The State Department does not record the annual number of Americans renouncing their citizenship—“renunciants,” as they are officially termed—but the Internal Revenue Service publishes their names on a quarterly basis in the Federal Register. The IRS’s interest in the subject is, of course, purely financial; since 1996, the agency has tracked ex-Americans in the hopes of recouping tax revenue, which in some cases may be owed for up to ten years after a person leaves the country. In any event, the number of renunciants is small. In 2002, for example, the Register recorded only 403 departures, of which many (if not most) were merely longtime resident aliens returning home.

The most serious barrier to renouncing your citizenship is that the State Department, which oversees expatriation, is reluctant to allow citizens to go “stateless.” Before allowing expatriation, the department will want you to have obtained citizenship or legal asylum in another country—usually a complicated and expensive process, if it can be done at all. Would-be renunciants must also prove that they do not intend to live in the United States afterward. Furthermore, you cannot renounce inside U.S. borders; the declaration must be made at a consul’s office abroad.

Those who imagine that exile will be easily won would do well to consider the travails of Kenneth Nichols O’Keefe. An ex-Marine who was discharged, according to his website, under “other than honorable conditions,” O’Keefe has tried officially to renounce his citizenship twice without success, first in Vancouver and then in the Netherlands. His initial bid was rejected after the State Department concluded that he would return to the United States—a credible inference, as O’Keefe in fact had returned immediately. After his second attempt, O’Keefe waited seven months with no response before he tried a more sensational approach. He went back to the consulate at The Hague, retrieved his passport, walked outside, and lit it on fire. Seventeen days later, he received a letter from the State Department informing him that he was still an American, because he had not obtained the right to reside elsewhere. He had succeeded only in breaking the law, since mutilating a passport is illegal. It says so right on the passport.

Heading to Canada or Mexico

In your search for alternate citizenship, you might naturally think first of Canada and Mexico. But despite the generous terms of NAFTA, our neighbors to the north and south are, like us, far more interested in the flow of money than of persons. Canada, in particular, is no longer a paradise awaiting American dissidents: whereas in 1970 roughly 20,000 Americans became permanent residents of Canada, that number has dropped over the last decade to an average of just about 5,000. Today it takes an average of twenty-five months to be accepted as a permanent resident, and this is only the first step in what is likely to be a five-year process of becoming a citizen. At that point the gesture of expatriation may already be moot, particularly if a sympathetic political party has since resumed power.

Mexico’s citizenship program is equally complicated. Seniors should know that the country does offer a lenient program for retirees, who may essentially stay as long as they want. But you will not be able to work or to vote, and, more important, you must remain an American for at least five years.

France

Should one candidate win, those who opposed the Iraq war might hope to find refuge in France, where a very select few are allowed to “assimilate” each year. Assimilation is reserved for persons of non-French descent who are able to prove that they are more French than American, having mastered the language as well as the philosophy of the French way of life. Each case is determined on its own merit, and decisions are made by the Ministère de l’Emploi, du Travail, et de la Cohésion Social. When your name is published in the Journal Officiel de la République Français, you are officially a citizen, and may thereafter heckle the United States with authentic Gallic zeal.

The coalition of the willing

Should the other candidate win, war supporters might naturally look to join the coalition of the willing. But you may find a willing and developing nation as difficult to join as an unwilling and developed one. It takes at least five years to become a citizen of Pakistan, for instance, unless one marries into a family, and each applicant for residency in Pakistan is judged on a case-by-case basis. Uzbekistan imposes a five-year wait as well, with an additional twist: the nation does not recognize dual citizenship, and so you will be required to renounce your U.S. citizenship first. Given Uzbekistan’s standard of living (low), unemployment (high), and human-rights record (poor), this would be something of a leap of faith.

The Caribbean

A more pleasant solution might be found in the Caribbean. Take, for example, the twin-island nation of St. Kitts and Nevis, which Frommer’s guide praises for its “average year-round temperature of 79°F (26°C), low humidity, white-sand beaches, and unspoiled natural beauty.” Citizenship in this paradise can be purchased outright. Prices start at around $125,000, which includes a $25,000 application fee and a minimum purchase of $100,000 in bonds. Processing time, which includes checks for criminal records and HIV, can take up to three months, but with luck you could be renouncing by Inauguration Day. The island of Dominica likewise offers a program of “economic citizenship,” though it should be noted that Frommer’s describes the beaches as “not worth the effort to get there.”

Speed is of the essence, however, because your choice of tropical paradises is fast dwindling: similar passport-vending programs in Belize and Grenada have been shut down since 2001 under pressure from the State Department, which does not approve. In any case, it should be noted that under the aforementioned IRS rules, you might well be forced to continue subsidizing needless invasions—or, to be evenhanded, needless afterschool programs.

Indian reservations

Our Native American reservations, which enjoy freedom from state taxation and law enforcement, might seem an ideal home for the political exile. But becoming a citizen of a reservation is difficult—one must prove that one is a descendant of a member of the original tribal base roll—and moreover would be, as a gesture of political disaffection, largely symbolic. Reservations remain subject to federal law; furthermore, citizens of a reservation hold dual citizenships, and as such are expected to vote in U.S. elections and to live with the results.

The high seas

You might consider moving yourself offshore. At a price of $1.3 million you can purchase an apartment on The World, a residential cruise ship that moves continuously, stopping at ports from Venice to Zanzibar to Palm Beach. Again, however, your expatriation would be only partial: The World flies the flag of the Bahamas, but its homeowners, who hail from all over Europe, Asia, and the United States, retain citizenship in their home nations.

To obtain a similar result more cheaply, you can simply register your own boat under a flag of convenience and float it outside the United States’ 230-mile zone of economic control. There, on your Liberian tanker, you will essentially be an extension of that African nation, subject only to its laws, and may imagine yourself free of oppressive government.

Micronations

The boldest approach is to start a nation of your own. Sadly, these days it is essentially impossible to buy an uninhabited island and declare it a sovereign nation: virtually every rock above the waterline is now under the jurisdiction of one principality or another. But efforts have been made to build nations on man-made structures or on reefs lying just below the waterline. Among the more successful of these is the famous Principality of Sealand, which was founded in 1967 on an abandoned military platform off the coast of Britain. The following year a British judge ruled that the principality lay outside the nation’s territorial waters. New citizenships in Sealand, however, are not being granted or sold at present.

A less fortunate attempt was made in 1972, when Michael Oliver, a Nevada businessman, built an island on a reef 260 miles southwest of Tonga. Hiring a dredger, he piled up sand and mud until he had enough landmass to declare independence for his “Republic of Minerva.” Unfortunately, the Republic of Minerva was soon invaded by a Tongan force, whose number is said to have included a work detail of prisoners, a brass band, and Tonga’s 350-pound king himself. The reef was later officially annexed by the kingdom.

More recently, John J. Prisco III, of the Philippines, has declared himself the prince of the Principality of New Pacific, and announced that he has discovered a suitable atoll in the international waters of the Central Pacific. As of publication, the principality has yet to begin the first phase of construction, but it is already accepting applications for citizenship.

Imaginary nations

Perhaps the most elegant solution is to join a country that exists only in one’s own—or someone else’s—imagination. Many such virtual nations can be found on the Internet, and citizenships in them are easy to acquire. This, in fact, was the route most recently attempted by Kenneth Nichols O’Keefe, the unfortunate ex-Marine. In February 2003,

O’Keefe went to Baghdad to serve as a human shield, traveling with a passport issued to him by the “World Service Authority,” an outfit based in Washington, D.C., that has dubbed more than 1.2 million people “world citizens.” While laying over in Turkey, however, he was detained; Turkey, as it turns out, does not recognize the World Service Authority. O’Keefe was forced to apply for a replacement U.S. passport from the State Department, which rather graciously complied.

Upon his arrival in Baghdad, O’Keefe promptly set the replacement passport on fire. But he remains, to his dismay, an American.

-Rudey

That means our drinking age is now 19. Coolness :)

If you live in Alberta or Quebec, it's 18. How do you like them apples? :D

So You Want to Move to Canada? (Salon.com)
 

(Just a few helpful links for anyone who is seriously considering moving to the True North, Strong and Free)

Citizenship & Immigration Canada Self-Assessment Test - evaluates whether you'd score high enough to qualify as a skilled worker: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/assess/index.html

Family Class Immigration - in case you want to marry a Canadian (I highly recommend it!):
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/sponsor/index.html

A Look at Canada - Citizenship study guide: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizen/look/look-00e.html


So you want to move to Canada? (from Salon.com)

David Cohen, partner of Cohen-Campbell, a leading Canadian immigration law firm, had barely settled into work Wednesday morning when his phone started ringing with Americans seeking legal guidance to taking up residence in the land of the maple leaf. The Bush victory did it, they told him: America's shift to the right had finally squeezed them out of their own country. Farewell Ten Commandment statues in public squares, hello single-payer health care.

So just how hard is it for an American to become a Canuck? A recent Harper's article suggested that bailing from Dick Cheneyville entailed a rather onerous legal dance. "It's not difficult at all," says Cohen. Basically all you need is a B.A. and a passing fluency in English and "Bingo, you're in."


Canada wants you. Turns out the populace, not too big on breeding, is not getting any younger. Our neighbors to the north need 1 percent of new immigrants every year just to keep their population of 31 million from shrinking. Bad for the economy and all that.

Interestingly, not many Americans decide to remake their lives in Canada. In 2002, only 5,288 Yankees immigrated there, compared to 14,164 folks from Pakistan. However, Cohen says his business among Americans has picked up considerably in the past year. He's received numerous calls from "parents who have lived through the Vietnam era and now have children soon to be draft age."

To put down roots in Canada, you need a permanent residence visa. First, you fill out a scorecard that awards you points for who you are -- you're shooting for 67. That B.A. in Communications from Chico State will do the trick but so will two years as a tradesperson; Manitoba is always looking for good sheet-metal workers. If you only have a high school education but sold that software program you wrote in your bedroom one night to Oracle -- that is, you have a net worth of $200,000 -- start packing, your Canada's kind of person. There is, however, a little bit of a Gattaca thing going. You get more points for being under 49 years old.

One warning: "Don't all of a sudden show up with a U-Haul trailer and all of your personal belongings in it," says Cohen. That's a legal offense called "centralizing your mode of living" and will quickly earn you official Canadian directions back to America. If the prospect of living one more day in Bush Land has you leaving tomorrow, better start looking for a job once you get to Canada. You can bop around for six months; after that, you need a work permit to stay longer.

Now, if you're really ambitious, and can't stand the thought of calling yourself an American while Donald Rumsfeld walks in the White House rose garden, you can apply for Canadian citizenship. Which requires passing a civics test and naming the three prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta). That will earn you the right to vote and discuss Wayne Gretzky's early years with the Oilers.

Keep in mind, red tape being what it is -- and provided you don't break any major Canadian laws like littering -- it will take one year to get a permanent visa and three more years to earn citizenship. By that time, the political scene back home could look a whole lot different.

Finally, you may want to think kind thoughts about forefather George Washington before you are required by Canada to recite its Oath of Citizenship: " I swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada."

It's really easy to get into Canada...all you have to do is promise to vote Liberal (the party that is), and you're in!

I like this map better. :)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1245739_ff4253f13d_m.jpg

But Lady Pi Phi, that would depend on where you live. You don't vote Liberal in "Kleinland".

CTFU! Too friggin funny!

Damn. Maybe you and al-Qaeda can get together and have a Christian bashing party. Dont be surprised when they strap explosives on you and send you onto a bus.

Yes, because just because someone supports the whole "separation of church and state" thing automatically makes them a terrorist.

I like Jesus quite a bit, but quite of few of his followers are, quite frankly, insane.

I think Americans would find our shopping to be rather disappointing. Canada is pretty behind the times in terms of shopping....Americans definitely have the leg up on us in retailing.

Mark well my words....in Canada, this is the shopping situation:
no J. Crew,
no Illuminations (one of my faves),
no Nordstroms,
no Bon Marche,
no Filene's,
no Bonwit-Teller,
no Nieman-Marcus,
no Barney's although our Holt Renfrew is a poor ersatz version of Barney's)

Need I go on?

But you know what? If it came down to having to choose between shoddy sweaters from J. Crew and being able to live in a country where all of her citizens are entitled to equal protection and rights under the law, I'd choose the latter.

(Besides - the exchange rate is super favourable right now, and it costs next to nothing to get a p.o. box across the border. ;) )

A place with less of the mass-produced, over-priced crap?
YAY!!!!
Just fix your healthcare system and I'll be in heaven.
(I am a thrifty shopper and see no reason to buy into brand-name hype like GAP, Abercrombie, and other foreign-child-labor brands where your clothing makes you a walking billboard for the corporation. The only brand name that I dont care if I wear is Nike since my sister works for them and I get a good discount.

Yeah the shopping does kinda suck here (but I LOVE LOVE LOVE Lush and the MAC store).

The closest Bon-Macy's is just 20 minutes over the border and the nearest Nordstrom is less than 2 hours away

J.Crew was supposed to come up a couple of years ago (when American Eagle did), but pulled out when the dollar fell to $0.63 US. Maybe they'll look into coming up again, especially. Personally, I'm hoping for Ann Taylor and Ann Taylor LOFT to expand up here as they have an excellent petite collection. I'm glad that the Toronto Eaton Centre Banana Republic store has finally got its petites though.


We do have Jacob and Jacob Connexion though :)

That's true, but Toronto is pretty Liberal, and that's where the majority of immigrants settle.

Ya damn right you don't! ;) But you need to realize that the PC's have been in office since early May 1971 - 5 weeks before I was BORN!

(note: I'm a born & bred Alberta girl - I can't myself! A favourite saying in Alberta when the feds doing soething stupid ... "We have the oil, the guns and the money - don't piss us off!")

Which I find weird, because as of late, most immigrants come from countries that are more in line with Alberta, morally speaking. But then again, middle class immigrants/new Canadians tend to settle in the 905, which is more likely to vote Conservative.

Vancouver and Victoria are extreme Liberal bases, and Vancouver has a huge influx of immigrants, but where their turn comes, they vote, more the most part along Liberal lines. My old riding (I now live a couple of blocks into the next riding) had the largest Liberal victory in the country.

I don't know. The 905 is still a fairly Liberal area. I can't explain it, but immigrants, especially new immigrants, tend to vote Liberal.

I just saw this on Yahoo:

Americans Flock to Canada's Immigration Web Site

Fri Nov 5, 2:22 PM ET

By David Ljunggren

OTTAWA (Reuters) - The number of U.S. citizens visiting Canada's main immigration Web site has shot up six-fold as Americans flirt with the idea of abandoning their homeland after President Bush (news - web sites)'s election win this week.



"When we looked at the first day after the election, Nov. 3, our Web site hit a new high, almost double the previous record high," immigration ministry spokeswoman Maria Iadinardi said on Friday.


On an average day some 20,000 people in the United States log onto the Web site, www.cic.gc.ca -- a figure which rocketed to 115,016 on Wednesday. The number of U.S. visits settled down to 65,803 on Thursday, still well above the norm.


Bush's victory sparked speculation that disconsolate Democrats and others might decide to start a new life in Canada, a land that tilts more to the left than the United States.


Would-be immigrants to Canada can apply to become permanent resident, a process that often takes a year. The other main way to move north on a long-term basis is to find a job, which requires a work permit.


But please spare the sob stories.


Asked whether an applicant would be looked upon more sympathetically if they claimed to be a sad Democrat seeking to escape four more years of Bush, Iadinardi replied: "There would be no weight given to statements of feelings."


Canada is one of the few major nations with an large-scale immigration policy. Ottawa is seeking to attract between 220,000 and 240,000 newcomers next year.


"Let's face it, we have a population of a little over 32 million and we definitely need permanent residents to come to Canada," said Iadinardi. "If we could meet (the 2005) target and go above it, the more the merrier."


But right now it is too early to say whether the increased interest will result in more applications.


"There is no unusual activity occurring at our visa missions (in the United States). Having someone who intends to come to Canada is not the same as someone actually putting in an application," said Iadinardi.


"We'll only find out whether there has been an increase in applications in six months."


The waiting time to become a citizen is shorter for people married to Canadians, which prompted the birth of a satirical Web site called www.marryanamerican.ca.


The idea of increased immigration by unhappy Americans is triggering some amusement in Canada. Commentator Thane Burnett of the Ottawa Sun newspaper wrote a tongue-in-cheek guide to would-be new citizens on Friday.


"As Canadians, you'll have to learn to embrace and use all the products and culture of Americans, while bad-mouthing their way of life," he said.

Yeah, I love MAC. The founder of MAC, Frank Toskan, is Canadian. MAC is now owned by Estee Lauder and its huge cosmetics-conglomerate syndicate.

Lush originated out of London's Covent Garden (that was the site of the first store). I like their "shampoo pucks" for hair. Great for travelling.

I used to live out in the Don Valley West area, which is fairly borderline PC/Liberal (it was PC provincially and Liberal federally until last October) but my current riding (Toronto Centre) is Liberal, Liberal, Liberal. Conservatives came in, like third this past federal election! I guess that's what happens when you live down town and your riding includes part of the university and the gay village......I like the shopping and convenience and all, but can't stand some of the values.