When you were in High School...
 

Sorors and SFs,

When you were in high school, were you exposed to little "sorority-like" organizations or simply CLUBS? When I taught high school I realized that these young ladies take these organizations to the EXTREME and it's really sad. Now, the good thing is that they are required to do public service, but they have a hell night for new members, they haze big time and the whole nine. I'm wondering where they get this mentality.

They seem to be concerned with stepping ALL the time and they even fight other organizations...like little gangs. And they have the audacity to say they are going to pledge either Delta or AKA in college.

I'm trying to see if there is any connection with those high school clubs and the wrong impression and misconception young ladies have on sorority life once they enter college.

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Director #2
LMAC
Spr 99

[This message has been edited by DirectorDST99 (edited July 20, 2000).]

Greetings Madam Moderator,

Growing up in New York City, I must say that NEITHER have I seen nor heard of such "sorority-like" organizations or clubs; but I'm interested in what people from other areas have to say, so I'm going to keep a 'close eye' on this post.

"THEE BKLYNDELTA"
1913% LEGIT AND LOVIN' IT

Hello Sorors and Sisterfriends,

This post isn't about Delta or AKA types of high school clubs, but it falls in the general area.
At my old high school there is this club called HKK which stands for Hi King Klub. It traditionally consisted of the so-called "well-off" white girls. The girls pledge their junior year and are members their senior year. They have hell week and openly haze at football games (it's more controlled now than it was 10 years ago), the town square, and at school. The girls were forced to go without make-up (not a pretty sight), wear ponytails and the same dress all week without washing, couldn't talk to boys, etc. Parents of these girls support this, even if the "big sisters" come to their house at 2 or 3 in the morning on school nights and take their daughters. It was okay with them. But on the positive side they have banquets, car washes, and other fundraisers, so the girls do community service. But I did the same thing with Key Club without the hazing. I guess it's considered more of a prestige thing or honor to be a member of that club.

Now when we went to the counselors and principals wanting to start our own club. We were told no, it would be unorganized, considered a gang, yada, yada, yada. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif So we didn't pursue it. However, in '98, three black girls did join and they said it isn't what everybody on the outside thinks it is. They seemed to enjoy it and get along with the other members.

But I do think that this particular club gives the wrong impression (at least the initiation phase) of what sisterhood should be about. But when you live in a small East Texas town, you can get away with these types of things. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Now the high at which I taught had two male groups and two females groups. Most of the times the advisors were in sororities and fraternities but not always, and I don't know what type of "advising" they actually did.

I remember when the girls were "on line" (and yes that's what they called it) they had to greet, buy food and gifts for their big sisters, dress a certain way for several weeks, they were yelled at and publically humiliated. Now, I'm thinking to myself where in the world are they getting this? These groups today even wear greek letters, have calls and throw up signs. I'm still wondering what the ????

This type of thing is big in Texas and I know that when I was in Tennessee is was big there too.

Personally, being in a club is fine, but when you start to "THINK" you are emulating a sorority or fraternity, I have a slight problem.

Oh yeah, the guy groups out step some of the fraternities and have been known to teach the fraternities and sororities some steps.

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Director #2
LMAC
Spr 99

[This message has been edited by DirectorDST99 (edited July 20, 2000).]

Hey Director!!!
I hope all is well with you. Well, I have been exposed to these type of groups when I was in junior high school on Long Island. Our advisor was in a sorority and we had an intake process which was basically learning the greek alphabet and taking a test. I did not go through any hazing and we did community service. I have heard of these things happening before and my best friend was part of a group in high school in Brooklyn where it was advised by I think a member of Kappa Alpha Psi if I'm wrong, I apologize but this individual is greek. From what she told me, they created their own name out of the greek alphabet, had to take a test repetitously until they all passed!!! and did monitoring and service in the school. Apparently this was the thing to be in and I think they did have a process. I think the reason why these things are created is in order to provide an outlet for young people to keep them busy and learn discipline. I am not suggesting this is an accurate solution. I do not think it is appropriate for a young person to be put through any hazing activities!!! Kids are very impressionable and can come out thinking anything greek or otherwise is all glossy and it's all about stepping and representing thier "crew." Teenagers already have enough on their plate and this type of thing adds unnecessary peer pressure to fit in the "in" crowd. That is why greek organizations were developed in colleges where an individual is at level of maturity to decide if this is what they want to do!! It is not forced upon them!! That's it for now.

Crimson Tail

[This message has been edited by CrimsonTail (edited July 20, 2000).]

Your post, Nubian, is what I'm talking about with those organizations and the things that they do and their purpose for existing. I'm glad you elaborated on some of the things they do. So, wouldn't you agree that they give and have a false impressions of college sororities and fraternities?

I think I know where you went to high school so I'm feeling ya.

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Director #2
LMAC
Spr 99

Hey Sorors/Sisterfriends

In my high School, we had clubs for women and men. They were called Q-T , CrunchBunch
GA, Vogue, HomeGirls, ect... Everyone was required to go "on line" the had calls, signs, and everything. I even remember that at one of our talent shows, they actually stepped. Well needless to say, they went on to become Delta's Zeta's Ques, and Aka's. I never belonged to such a group but I heard that they do pledge these girls (nothing major)
How does anyone else feels about this issue?

[This message has been edited by DableST_1 (edited July 20, 2000).]

I has reached California too! It's crazy!!! It must have taken off in the last 3 years because it wasn't anything big when I graduated in 1997, but when I went back to see some teachers in my jacket, I had these little girls (short, not young) tell me about all the things they had done to "get ready" to pledge. Some said Delta, but others had other ideas. I was blown away!!! The part that really bothered me is that I know that there are several members of BGLOs on the staff of that school who are not doing anything (that's giving them the benifit of the doubt.. some of these girls knew things that only someone familiar with the Current MIP would know). I Personally feel as though it's an end run around the anti-hazing stance of the sorority.

Director DST,
It's funny you should ask that because prior to entering college my only exposure to "Greek" sororities and fraternities was what I saw in high school. Needless to say I didn't like that at all, so upon entering college I assumed all Greeks groups were just like the ones at my school, elitist, and without purpose. It took a full year in college (and a lot of reading) to see that Greeks did things for the community, had history, and supported each other. The worse thing is that there are other high school kids that view Grreks this way for the same reason. That's what annoys me.

Love,
Me

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The most virtuous of all men is he that contents himself with being virtuous without seeking to appear so...

Hey Everyone!

This is an interesting topic. At my high school in Cleveland, Ohio, we had so many organizations/clubs it was pathetic. A lot of the organizations seemed to resemble sororities and fraternities, where the others resembled gangs. We had the Brothers, the Sisters, QT's, BMOC's (Big Men On Campus), the Nike Boys, Savoire Faire (those were the pretty girls and you had to be invited to join!), Kappa Phi Nasty, Delta Suave....the list goes on.

These organizations had hand signs, calls, their own colors, and they even had their own steps. There was a great deal of hazing that took place and yes, they had hell night. You can tell who was on line because they all wore the same clothes, were always together, and they had to do stupid things like walk around with gum on their noses.

I always found humor in these organizations. They went through all the humility and hazing for nothing.

Sorry So Long

Much Love http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Director DST,

Unfortunately, I have been very exposed to a number of high school "fraternities and sororities". Like you said it is very common in Texas, and I am aware of this because I attended school in the Fort Bend Independent School District. I never had any desire to participate in any of these groups because on top of being "fake" in my opinion, these groups had no earthly concept of sisterhood/brotherhood. While their was a premise of community service (which existed solely to mimick sororites and fraternities) the main focus of these groups was social status. I attended a school of over 2000 students, and of these I estimate that at least 500 were a member of 1 of the 6 Greek-like organiztions on my high school campus. I think it is extremely sad that so many at my school felt that they had to join these groups just to feel accepted at a time when acceptance is most important. Although I was not a member,and never desired to be one, I was very aware of the happenings in these organizations, the groups (especially the girl groups) Would hit and yell at the female "pledges", make them do numerous push ups, and on occasion turn certain girls away because they were too fat or ugly. While they were not sponsored or allowed by the school, our administrators never enforced the rule simply because these groups made money for the school by holding step shows! Isn't that so corrupt? Every group stepped, had hand signs, calls, line names, shirts, struts, you name it they had it. They had everything that in my opinion is surface, however they lacked the things that would ever prompt me to join any organization, and that is Sisterhood, purpose, and history.

Sorry so long, you just touched on a point that irks me! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif

Love,
Me

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The most virtuous of all men is he that contents himself with being virtuous without seeking to appear so...

I brought this topic back to the top in order to pose a question.
Do you all thibnk that the existence of these high school groups contributes to some of the mis-education and disrespect that is rampant among some interestees?

Tamika

I'm like all in the DST forum tonight ")...When I was in highschool (this was in the mid to late 80s--I know I'm old, but look young)...Anyway, we had mad boys and girls clubs when I was in high school (Georgia). I was one of the founding members of the girl club that I was a member of. Sadly, (I wouldn't have admitted then, if you paid me) the clubs were basically the haves vs. the have nots. We even had a brother organization that we were affiliated with. It may be my mind going bad or something, but I only remember having one initiation. We (the boys club & our club) had a party...at the party we made the initiates crawl around on the floor..blah blah blah...I chalk it up to our ignorance. We felt that we were in a class above the rest, so being young & immature we took full advantage of that...(& being constantly pursued by "hopefuls" didn't diminish our big heads either). Many of us have become members of AKA/DST. I assume everyone else is a GDI (as, I haven't heard of any of them becoming Zeta's or SGR's). I think it would have made a huge difference in how our org's functioned if a member(s) of one of the BGLO's had become like a mentor to us. Who knows, our organization might have still been around to this day--actually doing something worth while....well, you live & learn **shrugging shoulders**.

As myself being interested in pursuing membership, i dont think that the groups in my highschool contributed any disrespect towards Sororities or Frats. If anything, it helped me understand how great sororities are. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gifi never knew of greek life until i took it upon myself to do the research. now the groups at my school were similar to the greeks, but i think thats because they had greek sponsors. and you can tell by the names of the groups; ex. A Phi House, Ladies of Delta etc.. but these groups were well respected and were very respectable students.
its funny now that i think about it because i somehow wanted to join the group, but i always thought that "pledging" and puting yourself through that humiliation was stupid. But look at me now! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

Well, I can't say that I've encountered any so-called "sorority-like or fraternity-like" groups during my years in high school (which, by the way, was some time ago). http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif The only thing that was going on during those days (in the 80's) was the little "cliques" around school and they usually were comprised of people who hung together since kindergarten. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif I think that back then, most of us had the opportunity to feel as if we "belonged" without having to commit to degrading or juvenile activities. We didn't haveto result to wearing the same things. There was no "special color or name" that we gave ourselves. And our reasons for spending time together was basically because we were true "friends". I believe that most kids these days don't have that luxury. They don't really know what true "friendship" is. My best friends, clique, sisterfriends---whatever you want to call them----are my friends to the end. Today most of these "sorority-like/fraternity-like" groups in high schools are basically modern-day GANGS. There is no purpose. There is no mission. There is no meaning. There is no true friendship.

We did have high school sororities and frats at just about every high school in my city. I had an interview with one in the 10th grade. I so called "made line". As I was going through the process the big sisters were telling us to do all kinds of things from buying them goody bags to saying degrading things about ourselves. We couldn't wear makeup, jewelry,talk to boys, etc. I dropped soon because I had more respect for myself than that. After I dropped they told me "you shouldn't have done that because we were just about to be easy on you." It just wasn't worth it to me.

A lot of these individuals do carry these ideas and attitudes on to college. It's a sad thing. Maybe some sororities and fraternity members can educate these high school students.

When I was in both middle school (junior high)and high school both the AKAs and the Deltas had junior groups called AKAteens and Delteens. The Omegas also had a junior club they sponsored. Within these groups they made up strolls and steps for different events that would take place in the Detroit area. However they also would haze new members. The notion to haze new members was more or less a behavior these members learned from older family members that were members of BGLOs as well as movies (i.e. School Daze).

At my High school which is located in the Southern Region, I was a memeber of Delteens and I thoroughly enjoyed it. We visited HBCU's, we helped with the needy and elderly, but it wasn't to the point of which we thought we were GREEK. Nowadays, there are high school groups that do think their greek, so I suppose this is because the aux. group's name is closely associated with the Greek org. like Sigma Beta for Phi Beta Sigma, Pink Pearls for AKA, Archonettes and Doves for ZPHIB and RHors for SGRHo. Of course the list goes on,Unfortunately, these groups have taken a spin for the worse.

N'Quisitive
Reigning with Divine Wisdom

much respect...

When I was in high school I was in a high school "sorority".
Fortunately for us we were advised by a member of a BGLO. And it is because of her and her tuteledge(sp?) that we did not become like the other organizations in our high school.

We were "on line" for 3 weeks...but she taught us the value of sisterhood, service, unity, loyalty, trust, a simplified version of Roberts Rules, motivation, ambition, leadership etc.
Yes, we cried and sweated and sometimes hated how we had to wear the same thing (right down to the underwear) on our meeting day...and damn how it was hard to get signatures from our "Big Sisters" on the daily. But we made sure that we stuck together no matter what. And our advisor protected us and expressed to us the respect that we should have for REAL greeks.

I remember the day that we "crossed" and some of her sorority sisters from a nearby university came to visit. They, after our excitement wore off, expressed to us with total seriousness that this was just high school not college. And if we were interested in a GLO black or otherwise we better know the extent of respect that we must show those members.

They implored us to make sure that we have fun, that we give to the community, that we love one another as sisters etc. But when graduation came...this "sisterhood" ended.

And we did. Once we graduated we gave all our jackets and shirts to our little sisters. Anything associated with that part of our life we left behind.

But I do know of people who were in high school "sororities" and "fraternities" that thought..."hey i'm in this and it was advised by such and such and s/he is a member of XYZ soror/fraternity...then that means i'm in!"...oh no my sista/brotha you gots ta get your own!

As far as the miseducation...I can answer yes and no. When I joined the org...my grades shot up! We had a mandatory gpa of 3.0 (4.0 scale)...you had a semester of probation...that meant no participation whatsoever...and then if you didn't pull them up you were out. I also became much more aware of my community...because of the service.
But on the other hand I do know of organizations that were just like gangs...with no concern for grades or community...just about emulating the false ideas of "greek life".

i think organizations that stress service, education, sister/brotherhood etc. are positive for young people...particularly those who feel marginalized. It can be an opportunity to bring their self-esteem up. To give them a positive outlook on life and the world around them. But these organizations need to be carefully regulated and controlled so that they don't become some unorganized opportunity for people to brutalize one another.

*sorry so long*

peace

*BE ADVISED* This is a VERY long post and some of the things contained in it may offend, but my purpose is to bring light on some of the actions going on around me and to make everyone else aware of the possible situations that are involved with these groups. I do not reveal names or locations because some members of these organizations are silent readers and this is for respect purposes.

I am a founder of a high school step team when I was in school and I advise the team now from my university. We also had Greek letters but we made it clear that our name was "XYZ/The Best High School Step Team." That name is even on the website. Our advisor is non-Greek, however, the BGLO’s (yes, more than one) that taught us our steps are undergraduates at the local HBCU, in fact, all of the BGLO's know who we are when they see us. The Vice-Principal and Guidance counselor who helped us organize our team are Greek also.

Although our main purpose is to step, we (meaning I and the members of the fraternities that work with us) are molding the team to be like a youth auxiliary organization as well. In fact, all the youth auxiliary organizations on the web know about us and see us as such. Our initiations are nothing like what has been described above by previous posters, in fact, parents of the new members as well as other faculty members who teach the new members are invited to attend our meetings so that way there can be no questions about whether or not we "haze" the new members in our “process.” I guess you can say they see the good, the bad and the “ugly” (Ugly meaning the worst things one could say that we do the new members is actually comical and we have gotten request to do them again). Our co-ed step team also has an unofficial bond with the Black service club on our campus; some of our members have memberships in both. Most of the Greeks that work with us know what our name means and other things and they do not see us a "junior fraternity." The Greeks at the campus I am at now that know me see me as a step team member and advisor and not a “junior fraternity” member. Nor are they offended when we do our call and hand sign at high school step competitions and during performances. Now that I think about, that is the only time we even do the hand sign or the call, unless we are on the net chatting with other youth auxiliary club members. Because we have Greek letters, we were/are under watch at all times and the one or two times we messed up, we heard about it from everybody. Other than that, my experience is just like what lastpoetnsite said; and once we graduate, that part of you is left behind. I was taught, and I continue to teach the value of knowing African American history and to be good role models.

I will admit that there are other "organizations" in this state that do refer to themselves as a "junior fraternity/sorority." Some of these organizations have even taken it as far to say that they are “incorporated” (Yes, I DID say Incorporated). This has caused problems when they try to enter high school step competitions (A stipulation is that you are a high school step team or a regional/nationally recognized youth organization that is affiliated with a graduate or undergraduate chapter of a fraternity. No fraternities/sororities of any type may compete in these competitions, even honors societies.). Another problem the members of “junior fraternities and sororities” have caused for themselves is when they graduate and go to instate colleges (especially the HBCUs) and try to gain memberships in the BGLO’s. To my knowledge, there is only one “junior fraternity” that could actually claim affiliation with a BGLO and as we speak they are in the process of changing part of their name to reflect this affiliation. Back to the earlier statement, I have noticed that all the members of these “junior fraternities and sororities” did not gain membership into the organization of choice, and some have been trying for 3-4 years now.

Now even though majority of the groups do perform community service and the members are real friendly people once you get to know and they have all of the accolades (National Honor Society, Who’s Who of American High School Students, etc.) that a parent would want for their child; it is in the matter that they have claim to be a “fraternity/sorority,” junior or otherwise that have become a complete turnoff for the BGLO’s at the campuses I’ve seen.

Again, I state my intent is not to hurt feelings, anger anyone or to bring a negative vibe; but to make all people aware that your actions do come back to "haunt" you.

Humbly,

112

My concern is when the HS organizations bring to the college campuses this misconception about greeklife. I work at an HBCU and can count the times I've heard freshman tell me they are afraid to pledge in college because they know how hard it was in HS. Where does it start? In HS. How do we help control this miseducation?

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"Director" #2
LMAC Spr 99

It's good for me to learn that not everyone's experience with these types of groups was negative. While I was not a member of one of these groups, I am one of the people who thought all greeks were followers who needed acceptance by the time I entered college. (2 yrs. ago) Why? Because this is what I saw in high school. Some of the things those girls were put through (as far as being hazed) is pathetic, and on top of that, it served no purpose, other than to pad someone's pockets (yes they paid dues) and to give the girls a feeling of acceptance. For this reason, I think any high school group without supervision and support from seasoned BGLO members should be banned. The existence of any other type of group only serves to cloud the perception of real greek life. Just my .02 cents.

I understand your concern DirectorDST99. To tell the truth one can only do so much to curb the miseducation about Greeks in High Schools. The teachers that are Greek can only do so much; but the teachers who aren't also have an impact on how the student thinks about Greeks. If the non-Greek teacher had a good experience with Greeks, then they would say positive aspects about Greeks. If not, they don't and even get to the point to where they discourage the students from going for scholarship awards given by Greeks.

Part of the problem is that now alot of HS Step Teams and Black oriented groups are on White High School Campuses, where there are little to no BGLO role models to say yes, this is how it works and no, this is not how it works. I don't think that we as advisors can blame the children for what they see on television either. To tell the truth, if you are not a legacy or have not been exposed to Greek life as a youth, then you would believe every negative stereotype that you see on television and the news. So by time they get into these groups, they already have the preconceived notion as to what they think it means to be Greek or to be in a group with status. People come to our tryouts and want to join our team because they think this is a stepping stone to AKA, DST, ZPB or SGRho. Then when they find out this is not the case at all (how can it be, we work with fraternities), they don't want to be apart of it because they want the hazing the other things they think being Greek or in a group of status entails.

I don't mean to overstep my boundaries but I believe teenagers, especially Black ones, begin to choose which organization they think is right for them around the 10-12 grades. Many times, theses judgements are based on what they see the groups do at stepshows and in the communities. I know in high school I used to hear rumors all the time about which organization pledged the hardest or which one has more respect and different things like that. Then, based on the rumormil and where there priorities are, they make the decisions about each organization. And you are right, I have seen people I have competed against in step shows come to campus and see that they were completely wrong about the organization of choice.

I am not Greek, so I wouldn't know how to tell you directly what I think you should do to get rid of the miseducation that many High Schoolers think about Greeks. I guess I can say that the only hope is that all youth organizations are run by Greeks, but realistically we know that is not going to happen. So I guess the next best thing is making sure the advisors (myself included) are teaching these teenagers how to by young responsible African Americans and if they are doing that, the teenagers will make the best decisions about Greek life or any social organization.

112

LOL
 

I am still in high school and last year a few other girls and myself tried to start a "sorority-like" organization. We even came up with a mission statement. The whole goal of our organization was going to be to revive our school and community,as well as,teach other young ladies that there is more to being in a sorority than stepping and partying. But,due to LACK of commitment in the group the whole idea was STOPPED. This was a sad outcome,because we had all the support we needed from both a Delta and an AKA. Grant it, we took the idea of starting such an organization,very seriously(at one time), but we realized that in doing this we still had to be high achievers.

YEP....
 

I guess since I’m fresh out of high school (3 years ago) and was apart of one of those "sorority-like" clubs I can respond to the post. The name of the club is S.I.S.T.E.R.S- Sisters Intelligently Striving To Enhance Real Sisterhood we where somewhat parallel to sororities we had an induction ritual, a pin, jacket, verbal call, colors, and a hand signal. We also had an interview process and we all had to wear white shirts until we were officially members. There wasn't any hazing, hitting, violence, or learning the history. As I look back on it I think that it was more of a social thing but I'm still in contact with the other members. Funny someone mentioned that the advisors may belong to a BGLO but in my case I think the advisor started the club because she wanted to belong to something. Luckily we had other faculty members that help us especially when we had our little step show. Now that I’m in college I realize the differences between my little clubs in high school opposed to official BGLO.

since i am still in high school i can speak from the younger POV. There are the jr. fraternities and sororities around at school and ppl who are interested DO get hazed and thats what the majority of high school kids think its all about. Wearing letters, stepping, strolling, and hazing is all that most think its all about when they get to college.

The only teens that i can honestly say that know better are the ones involved in youth orgs. that are under BGLOs(in BR). We have to do community service and we ENJOY it. Yeah we like to step too but only for regionals. We attend workshops and have special days set aside for learning things that we need in the future. We are more concerned with our service and the way we portray the org. from our level. No one in a BGLO would want misinformed kids running around giving the impression to others that wearing letters, stepping, strolling, and hazing is all XYZ is about and their youth doesnt know any better either.

At my sister's high school, there are no fraternities or sororities (its against school policy) but you have different cliques that want to be greek. For instance, my sister is on the cheerleading team and they ( the cheerleaders) have a call, a hand sign, para, and they get hazed. :eek: Most of them want to be greek in college so I guess that's why this happen. I think if the school allowed it, they would have letters and everything...