Silly Question
 

When you are a pledge for an NPC sorority, it is public knowledge and open to non-members to know. I am under the impression that for NPHC groups, you don't let people know when you are a pledge.

Are pledges allowed to be public about their status in APO, or is it not revealed until their initiation?

Just curious.. and if this is too secretive, I apologize.

(What prompted my question: I saw a friend of mine with a pledge pin and asked what group he was pledging. He refused to tell me anything, saying it was secret. I saw another friend of mine with what appeared to be the same pin, and she told me she was pledging APO.)

In my chapter, we weren't allowed to wear letters or any APO paraphernalia except our pledge pin until initiation. However, it was not secret that we were pledging. In fact, my chapter sometimes put ads in the IDS welcoming the pledge class and naming names, so there was no way it could be secret. :D

ok, thank you. I'm now starting to think that it isn't APO though.. the pin they were both wearing was sort of shaped like beta theta pi's pin and had some sort of h-like symbol on it. The APO pledge pin I saw online had the letters A, P, and O on it with a P in the middle.

In that case, it means the girl lied to me... but I don't know what other co-ed groups they could be pledging, especially one secret enough where they would wear pledge pins but be so secretive about the group?

Not secret
 

Alpha Phi Omega chapters would be expect to definately be at the public end of the spectrum, in fact many chapters have requirements that pledges wear their pins all the time it makes sense (no requirement in the shower, or in ROTC uniform for example). And with the pledge pins showing the fraternity letters just as clearly as the service/brother pins, wearing them sort of tells people you are a part of the group.

Only thing I can think of is that they *might* be pledging Alpha *Psi* Omega, which also refers to itself as APO, which is the Drama Honorary. But I don't know know if APsiO *has* pledge pins.

Randy

it also depends on the chapter, i knwo at some chapter people where there pins but when asked if they are pledging some people will either say, no or change the subject, its more of an anticipation thing for the campus if they are havng a coming out performance or probate as they call it on the black campuses. I know of some chapter that dont even wear pledge pins so it depends on the chapter, there is no by-law that saids that a pledge HAS to say they are pledging to non-members.

Revealing pleding
 

The National Pledge Standards include
5. Wearing of Insignia. An appropriate period of pledging
includes wearing an official Pledge pin at all times.
Rationale: Chapter Image, on and off campus, is a vital
concern of all Members, new and old. The prominent and
proud display of an Alpha Phi Omega Pledge Pin instills
pride through identity with Alpha Phi Omega, signifies the
Chapter’s presence on campus and in the community, and
may also habituate all Members to proudly wear Fraternity
insignia.

Our pledge pin is considerably more obvious than most of the GLOs, with the letters and the identical shape to the brotherhood pin. And we definately don't want the pledges to say they are *brothers* of the fraternity whose letters they wear on their collar.

BTW, normally how long from Pledging ceremony to Probate/coming out?

The probate show usually comes one day to maybe a week or so after the initiation. It depends...

After initiation into pledgeship or initiation into brotherhood?

after initiation into the brotherhood.

So in practice, that means at some historically black campuses, pledges do not identify themselves at all? Aren't they identifiable during activities that the line does in public?

Randy

Exactly, most don't identify themselves, yet if you "happen" to see them out in public, then well, you see them.

Very different than what I am used to...

So would adding the fact that you are pledging to a personal webpage be considered "bragging" or otherwise frowned on?

Yes

randy what u probably don't realize is that when pledges are in public at a black school its looked at as hazing even if you are not!!! you can just be studying but it can be easily misinterpreted as hazing and b/c BGLO's can't use the term pledging any more b/c to them pledging = hazing, so if we say we are "pledging" it sounds like we are "hazing" to administration so even though we wear our pledge pins we dont tell people *meanin students on the yard* the admin of course knows...if they find out they do...but we like to surprise people at the probate...like I DIDNT KNOW JOE BLOW WAS PLEDGING APO!!!

Pledging
 

I do know that the NPHC Greeks have had to switch to much shorter intake procedures and that that has caused considerable stress with "paper" vs. "pledging".
OK, there are several audiences to be dealt with here...

Administration. As I understand it, at least at some HBCUs, a list of Potention New Members, known to APO as pledges, must be given to the administration to verify that their GPA is such that that are allowed to join Alpha Phi Omega. As such they would have the list of students joining Alpha Phi Omega. If the appropriate members of the administration do not understand our terminology then it needs to be explained to them in private, including the fact that Alpha Phi Omega is not bound by decisions of the NPHC. (If it takes a national board member to properly explain this to them, by all means get one. 1/2 :)

NPHC members. Are they the ones objecting? Are they objecting to the events that we are doing are hazing *or* are they envious that we continue to have pledge periods that, in length, are closer to what the NPHC fraternities had before they were forced to do "paper"?

Non Greeks. A response that the Noble Nine may have decided what is right for them, but that they did not decide what is for Alpha Phi Omega.

Studying = Hazing. Obviously chapters have to with whichever is the strictest out of APO rules, State Law and University Regulations. But I've seen required joint studying at PWIs that has passed muster without a problem, are the HBCUs going to have stricter rules on that?

Pins. I reference back to the previous copying of Standard #5 in the National Pledging Standards. While a reference to light and bushels may be more appropriate to Alpha Nu Omega and if I were Christian, I think it applies in this case.

Surprise at Probate. Announce them, honor them, and have other surprises: Routine, amount of service, line name...


I know that what I have posted here may not be practical and I'm looking from outside, but to me any circumstance that would encourage an Alpha Phi Omega pledge to lie about whether they have pledged needs to be investigated to see if change is possible.

Randy

We are not asking any one to lie but it's not the campus's business who we have pledging. The pledges do wear there pledge pins and the admistration does have a list of potential pledges. They have to get approved before they can make it to be a pledge. So the admin knows that we have a pledge class and they wear their pledge pins. Admin even knows that we have different terminology's but the fact remains that if you go to HBCU that BGLO's are what's dominant on the yard. The admin doesn't want certain things to happen then they can't happen. We have to go by the bylaws of the fraternity as well as the rules of the school. We try to find a happy medium between the school and the brotherhood. So if they tell us not to do something (they being the admin) then we can't do it...period.

I'm a little confused on the response. Your first half seems to indicate that the administration knows you have pledges, know what pledging means to Alpha Phi Omega and knows who the pledges are. Correct?

What does the admin not want to happen?


I know that the NPHCs control the yard, and that an Alpha Phi Omega chapter can be in a boatload of trouble if it really ends up NPHCs vs. Alpha Phi Omega...

Is the school refered to "happy medium" sentence the admin or the students at large or the BGLOs on the yard?
Randy

sorry if i'm not clear...the admin knows we have pledges. the admin knows who they are. pan hel cant use the term pledgin. in apo we can. but cuz the admin is so focused on how bglo's get down...we cant use the term either. the admin knows the difference dont get me wrong...but they dont feel comfortable with us using the term. the chapter has to come up with a happy medium. we have to do whats gonna keep us in good with nationals and with our schools admin. did that make sense this time?

Yup. The administration doesn't want anyone doing anything called pledging on campus, right? So the chapter has to use a different term for its process, even though it lasts 6 weeks minimum and the BGLOs process is much shorter. (btw, what term does your chapter use instead of "pledging"?)

So the pledges don't say they are pledging Alpha Phi Omega on campus but can indicate they are in the process of becoming brothers?

Randy

We tell the adminstration that we have a line and the pledges dont have a need to tell the campus that they are pledging...they wear there pledge pins thats all that matters

A compromise, I guess, but still doesn't seem quite right to hide things. :(

I guess some of it comes from being from a chapter that got treated well by our on campus. We refereed or were otherwise an active neutral party in the intergreek competitions. (We ushered greek sing, we ran the timing/scoreboard at the "buggy" races, we had the food booth at spring carnival, and at least once got asked to provide a ref for an adhoc football game between two of the socials.

Randy

we dont hide having a pledge class from the campus cuz the orgs dont like us...we just do...its a different culture...i really dont like when AA's in APO make that statement cuz so many things in APO go across the color line but in this case it's the only way i can explain this one...iv'e tried so many times...i mean at Black schools u just dont let everyone know who's getting ready to be in ur org.

Hmm. I wonder if its different for the Noble Nine chapters at schools where there are more NIC/NPC groups than NPHC (or close).

Apologies if any of the following insults, I'm not trying to.

Perhaps on campuses where being part of an fraternity/sorority has a greater effect on ones life/position/standing, having people identifiable as having attempted to be part of greek and *failing* is such a significant negative for a person that the greeks are being kinder about not making it easy to identify who tried and failed...
(If that made any sense at all).

Randy

makes sense but no...if someone was pledging a d9 frat or sorority and didnt make it the school would know...you know such n such dropped line etc. you just dont tell people that you are pledging...its an unwritten rule...it's not like a wedding...no need to give people the heads up.

Well the school doesn't exactly spread the news...

Wonder how far the unwritten rule goes, to NPHCs at HWIs?

Randy

I doubt they reveal their pledges to any other than the administration either...not until probate at least.

Still doesn't make any sense and unforunately all of the other reasons I've come up with the for the rule are vastly insulting to the entire NPHC system, so I'll refrain from making them.

Randy - I feel where you're coming from. I think there was a thread on here where someone in an NPC sorority got on our case about us calling pledges pledges and was like "they're new members! Calling them pledges is hazing!" It gets rather tiresome to explain that just because that is what YOU are used to, it doesn't apply to anything with a Greek letter. I mean, if I remember correctly, Alpha Psi Omega refers to their chapters as "casts" and I don't see them pitching a fit because other people call it a chapter.

NPHC has found what works for them and that's great, but I don't see why APO should have to follow their rules (or NIC's or NPC's for that matter).

Yup, we have to follow their rules, the moment they let us on the NPHC and not one moment before. And given that we don't *want* to be there, it's not going to be any time soon.

Now I have seen HBCUs where Alpha Phi Omega gets grouped onto a council with KKPsi, TBS, GSS, and anyone else with greek letters that doesn't require doesn't require a certain number of credits have been taken in a specific department. If this group has rules, then we follow them as long as it doesn't contradict something from our Nationals...

BTW, some of the NIC fraternities call their officers by terms that are completely confusing from the outside. Like someone might guess that the chapter high alpha is the president. But is the chapter high sigma or the chapter high kappa the treasurer? But the other NICs don't seem to mind...


Randy