Poll on Rape
 

James' story about his friend's "odd sexual experience" reminded me of a question some friends & I were discussing the other day:

Which is worse, to be raped by a stranger, or to be raped by a date?

Both have obvious implications, but I'd like to hear what others think about the question.

I think the raped by a stranger is more terrifying. Date rape can be swept under the rug and covered up with denial. Both suck.

Both suck... I cannot see how either one is worse than the other.

Assuming all other factors are equal . . . I would say a date.

With a stranger, you wouldn't have to see them walking around campus. You wouldn't be subject to the same amount of societal pressure to not press charges. You would have far fewer people accusing you of it somehow being your fault, etc.

I would still choose neither because they suck in equal ways.

At least if you get raped by someone you know, you might have information on them that you can give to police such as their name, address, phone number, etc. With a stranger, you don't have that info and there's a greater chance the rapist won't get caught.

It depends.

I imagine that stranger rape is usually worse because it generally involves violence and violent coercion.

Date rape that resembles stranger rape is probably just as bad. Where the acquaintance uses violence or violent conversation.

For example, being dragged out of a parking lot at knife point and raped while being visciously beaten for resisting . . . might be a tad more tramautic than say, having a few drinks and then getting passive agressive because the situation is confusing and unfamiliar allowing the person to go much farther than you are comfortable with.

Some people are familiar with my story. I was raped by an exboyfried. It was easy for me to imagine my guilt and why it could be my fault than I think it would be if I had been raped by a stanger. That's really the only way I could think it would be worse being raped by a date. I at least could somewhat console myself that he didn't have HIV/AIDS, STD's, etc. You can't know that about a stranger. But in the end, it all sucks really bad, so I don't know if there is one worse than the other. Was that clear as mud?

It would depend, though I'm probably going to lean towards date rape. Like others have said, you don't have to see the stranger ever again, while you may have to face someone you know around campus, or even at a party, when you don't know who's going to be there.

Reading some of the above responses, I am wondering if women's libbers have done too good of a job redefining date rape.

The concept of date rape got so little notice for so many years that the only way to really draw attention to it was to make it as horrific in the minds of the populace as violent stranger rape.

Hence you have people saying that there is no difference between violent stranger rape and date rape for a woman.

I think this idea has become so prevalent that when many young women think of Rape today, they think in terms of date rape settings which are usually non-violent.

Girl was drugged. Girl had too many drinks. Girl was on the verge of sex out when she said no, he didn't stop but didn't use violent force.

So then, when we say stranger rape, many women think of those same scenarios and replace the acquaintance with a stranger.

I think this shows a certain naivetie. A concept more shaped by political correctness than a true appreciation of the viscitudes of life.

Stranger rapes are usually violent or violently coercive.

Getting pulled out of parking lot at knife point and being beaten into submission when you try to resist, knocking your teeth out, breaking your cheekbones, shattering ribs, maybe fracturing your pelvis . . . is horrific.

Or being forced to have sex with a knife to your throat or a gun to your head , not knowing if this total stranger is going to take your life . . .

If you guys are telling me that you think your average date rape scenario is worse than that, I think your arguments are rather academic and need to be rethought.

Stranger rape doesn't have to be violent. You can be drugged by someone you don't know as well. Also, how many times have you heard of people gone home with someone they didn't know?

ETA: Why is it that a female is always the victim if she goes to a guy's house drunk and has sex with him, but it isn't always the case the other way around? A drunk guy going home with a not-so drunk girl is just as much a victim. Same thing if both are drunk.

That argument would be counterproductive to feminist viewpoints.

It actually states on one web site that if you have sex with a drunk woman it is rape, however, it doesn't matter if you are drunk because intoxication is not a defense.

According to these viewpoints, would it still be rape it was the other way around? For example, if a girl were to have sex with a drunk guy, would the guy be a rape victim. The girl isn't drunk. Anyway, if both the guy and the girl were drunk, and they did it, then really, both should be considered victims.

James, I don't think you're understanding the deep emotional violation that rape conjures up in a woman. I would rather be beaten until unconscious, every bone in my body broken, than be raped. It's an emotional torture to know that someone has violated what is most private to a woman. A man who rapes a woman steals who she is, her inner being is shaken, her confidence is damaged. She feels dirty and .. violated. The shame, humiliation and psychological effects are far more damaging to a woman than just the physical.

Dee

Y'all bring up some interesting facts & ideas. Dee, I so agree with what you've had to say.

In the discussion(s) that started this thread, the main arguements were:

1) It's harder if it's a stranger. This could be a good looking guy (like Ted Bundy) or a killer (like Ted Bundy). You don't know if you'll live through the experience. You don't know if he'll be caught, tried, and convicted. You may have to testify and relive the whole experience. You have NO idea about his health, especially sexual health. Many people won't believe you.

2) It's harder if it's a date rape. You made the decision to go out with this person. Your judgment is called into question. You may never trust another man. You have to see this person in class, on campus, at parties. Concerning pressing charges, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. You could become the campus pariah. You don't know about his sexual health. Many people won't believe you.


My own feeling is that the date rape would be harder, because of the massive peer pressure, and the harder ability to prove that it was rape, not consenual (think: the woman raped by William Kennedy Smith). But, I wanted to hear what others thought.

Also, should these perpetrators (I refuse to call a rapist a "man") be tried in the same manner?

Uh, James? Notice the part where I said, "All other things being equal . . ."? Yeah.

Plus, not all stranger rapes are necessarily overly violent, and not all date rapes lack violence. Stranger rapes can use the threat of violence just as effectively as violence itself. And date rape can use violence just as effectively as you're imagining a stranger rape might. NOT all date rapes are simple "misunderstandings" the way you're defining them. Plenty of them do not involve alcohol, or only involve alcohol on one side or another, or involve the girl getting drugged, etc. etc. I think the number that involve straight up misunderstanding the way you think they do is actually quite slim.

Furthermore, taking a stereotypically male viewpoint, you assume violence is the worst thing that can happen. Often the feelings of guilt, self-questioning, and self-blame can be FAR more traumatic than any violence involved.


Although, as I have said many many times, you clearly have little conception about what rape is about and to debate it with you is effectively pointless.

I thought of the one that is probably the hardest.. that would be spousal rape. With spousal rape, the perpetrator is someone you once vowed to love and cherish, someone you thought you could trust with your life, and someone you probably will have to continue to deal with on some level. Besides that, it's the most hard to prove and many believe that it can't be rape if it's a spouse because consent is implied just because you're married.
In fact, it wasn't even defined as rape until fairly recently.

Dee

Dee-
Excellent point. I recently attended a lecture by Raquel Kennedy Bergen, a prof at St. Joseph's who's considered to be one of the leaders in the study of "wife rape". She wrote the book "Wife Rape: Understanding the Response of Survivors and Service Providers". Even working in a domestic violence shelter, I had never really thought much about the horror that it would be to be attacked, most often repeatedly, by the person that society has told you that you're supposed to love and cherish. Sadly enough, in most states, spousal rape isn't considered to be "as big of a deal" as other forms of sexual assault. Dr. Bergen's lecture really opened my eyes to this problem, and I hope I can be a better social worker b/c of it.

http://www.sagepub.com/printerfriend...d=3374&ptype=B

The closer the relationship between the victim and rapist, the easier it is for friends/family/general public to deny.

In a class I once took we watched a documentary that talked about spousal rape and this one woman said that everyone (including the police) were convinced that it was all a misunderstanding and were very unhelpful. The woman claimed that she scream and pushed against her husband and she quoted him as saying somethings that if true would make it clear he understood it wasn't consentual. That was in the mid 90s.

For the original question, I agree with honeychile's summary of arguement, but with all else terrifyingly equal, date rape would be worse due to the fact that you know a lot of people just plain won't believe that you were raped regardless of trial and decision.

Many have you have said some very interesting things.
I don't know if I could say one would be harder to deal with than the other. I've known far to many women who have been raped (sexually assulted...it's not called rape in Canada) and I can see how hard it is for them. Even years after the incident they still struggle with it every day.

James, I think it's horrible that you feel that some of the women need to rethink their views on rape. I agree with AGDee, I don't think you truely understand that trauma that comes along with rape. But I also don't expect you to. Men approach sexual assult from very different angles as I have observed.

A male friend of mine told me a story about how he got too drunk at a party and passed out. When he woke up a female was on top of him performing oral sex on him. He told me her pused her off and then went back to the party. When he told me this story the first thing that came to mind was how he had just been sexually assulted. I told him this and he just laughed it off, as if it's something that happens and it's no big deal. If that were me I would have called the police. Men approach it differently. Somethime I think men feel they cannot be raped/sexually assulted. Men are less likely to report a rape because of feelings like this. But it's not acceptable at anytime by anyone.

Instead of telling us to rethink our argument about date rape, maybe it's you who should rethink yours.

James, I don't think that you're qualified to make a judgement as to which is worse, harder, etc. Without going into a whole lot of detail, a lot feels the same physically, and there is still the sense of being invaded in both cases. Just because there is not a knife to your throat or a gun to your head doesn't mean that there isn't fear that your life is in danger. My exboyfriend had his arm pressed down on my throat - I was terrified that I was going to be strangled to death. By someone I trusted. I understand what you're saying, but honestly, if you've never experienced it, there's just no way that you can know.

I know that this is from a long time ago, however, I was raped this weekend by someone that I worked with. I've never had an experience in terms of someone i didn't know, but this is one of the hardest things I've ever gone through. I'm ok, then i'm not, i cry or start throwing up for no reason, the nightmares are.... unimaginable... and yet i can't bring myself to report the f*cker who did this to me.
This is why i'm coming to the conclusion that acquaintance rape is harder, but for different reasons... i'm not ready to get into all of the intricacies yet.

:(Alethia, i am so sorry to hear that this has happened to yet another innocent person. i cant imagine how hard it is to have it happen to you by a person you know. i think that would shake me more than anything, that uncertainty that it could happen again. it happened to my best friend in college, and although that was 6 years ago, she is still not over it and has intimacy issues with her current fiance.

i hope you can develop the strength to relive it long enough to report him. if not, it may happen to someone else. i will pray for you, stay strong.

AlethiaSi;
This is not my field nor did I spend anytime recently at a Holiday Inn.
However, it is my Mother's field.
While I just saw this and have not asked her about it; I have a good idea what she would say.
While being here and talking about it may seem to be of help, it is just a way of avoiding what you need to do. See and talk to someone in Crisis Center or Rape Clinic.
And press charges.
Judging only from what you have posted, I fear that any and all evidence is now lost.
But you should still do something for yourself.
And any others that he may have done this to in the past or in the future.

I think both are equally bad. Rape is always devastating.

I can see how stranger rape could be riskier- you do not know the person and do not know what diseases he may have and drugs he may use.

Weapons and sedation could be used in both cases.

I'm so sorry you went through this. :(. If you need somewhere to turn, I would be willing to look up places/people in your area. I'm a social worker so I refer people all the time. Just PM me if you like.

Many hugs and thoughts and prayers. It's ok not to be ok about it. And as others have said, definately talk to someone about it, even if you can't bring yourself to report him in the end.
1-800-656-HOPE is a free, confidential 24 hour sexual assault hotline.

Thank you both for stepping up.

I will echo what others have said about speaking up about it, even if you never wind up reporting him. Drolefille listed a toll-free number, but you may also want to look into Take Back the Night events in your community (either on a college campus nearby or a wider community event) as a space to share your story and get it out there, or just to be around people who know what you've been through. It definitely helped a friend of mine who went through relationship rape. If you haven't already, please also get a medical exam done.

I am so, so sorry that you have to go through this, and I hope that you get the courage to report him and press charges. I'm not qualified as a counselor or anything, but if you ever want a friendly ear, don't hesitate. You're in my prayers.

Just paying it forward...
 

Altheia,

For your sake I hope you see a healthcare professional... You need to see somebody...

There is a clinical "kit"...

And the first issue about rape, it is about POWER and NEVER about sex!

From one person to another... Silence = death... Believe me, this is NOT a price you want to pay... I know... :(

Just as a follow-up to all the postings here, while I am sure there are people and placed in your area, here are some sites I found in a rather general search:
http://www.safecampusesnow.org/safety_rape.htm
http://www.rainn.org/counseling-centers/index.html
http://hotpeachpages.net/usa/states.html

Best wishes and thoughts to you.
And all others.

i once knew a girl who was raped by her own grandfather


what a sad little girl

There is a man who has a sidewalk stand on Pitt's campus, and I know for a fact that he's raped one of my sorority sisters years ago. It really irks me that anyone buys anything from him!

that is horrible, Honeychile

he should not be allowed around any of those girls

THANK YOU so much to everyone that responded, I know it was shocking for me to just post this and put it out there... I feel like if I name what happened, it's scary as hell but for some reason it's cathartic or something. I am going to go see someone, and again, thank you to everyone that has reached out by listening (reading) and by providing resources. I have decided not to report it. This has been a horrible decision, but considering the circumstances, it wasn't malicious, which is hard to believe, I know, but it wasn't. It's been two weeks, and any kind of medical exam (besides getting tested, because one thing I do know is that he didn't use a condom) would bring no evidence. I am going to counseling and I just want to work through this. However, another thing is that the more people I talk to about this, the more awful awful stories I hear (worse than my own, but I know it is all relative), it makes me sick to my stomach. I would like to work in a rape crisis center (not now, but eventually... down the road) and to talk to other women (and men) that have gone through this.

It's weird, like you always think you would know what to do in a situation, but it turns out, that when you are there, you really don't know. I literally take things day by day and hope that when I go to sleep the nightmares get a little better. I also have nightmares about what happened, but about other people, my friends, family and this happening to them. I don't trust men. I always had a comfortable relationship with men, things were what they were, I didn't try to contort reality. Now, I am mistrustful, I don't like people touching me except for my close friends hugging me or something. I guess I'm just evaluating everything around me because everything is so different. I've also started praying which for the first time in my life, seems like a good thing to do (I've always felt kind of uncomfortable about it...) and it's hard, but it's getting easier to do it.

again, thank you to everyone for being there for me, the fact that none of you know me, but I know are there for me, that is not something you find, and I need it more than ever.
You are all such amazing people.

AlethiaSi,

it makes me sick as well to hear how often this happens to people. i count myself fortunate that it has not happened to me, and i pray it never does. i, too, am one of those super-trusting people who lets her guard down a bit too soon. luckily nobody has taken advantage of that. its a shame, friendly, outgoing, open people are vulnerable to that type of attack. its not in my personality to come off as abrasive or bold, it would be completely uncomfortable for me. i think now, though, for the sake of my family and myself, that i reexamine that aspect of who i am and try to work a more cautious angle into my life.

dont let this kill that sweet, bubbly part of you. that is what makes you YOU. you have already been robbed of something else important and special, hold on to this as tight as you can! :)