Revealing secrets of defunct/absorbed GLOs
 

As many of you know, I joined a local sorority, Sigma Iota Phi, during my freshman year of college. During my sophomore year, that local sorority became a chapter of AEPhi. Most of the sisters of Sigma Iota Phi, myself included, became AEPhis at that time.

A couple of weeks ago, I got together with one of my sisters - one of the founders of the local. Let's call her "Carol". It was just the two of us and our husbands. Her husband "Bob" is a fraternity alum. We got onto the topic of GLOs, and specifically of SigIPhi. In the course of the conversation, Bob said something that leads me to believe that Carol may have told him some of the secrets of SigIPhi.

Even though SigIPhi has effectively ceased to exist, the idea that Carol might have shared those secrets still bothers me. I consider the vows I took as a SigIPhi still to be in force. I look on SigIPhi as a bond shared among the twelve of us who were SigIPhis, in addition to our bond as AEPhis (which of course is much farther reaching). And the idea that those secrets may have been revealed outside our circle rubs me the wrong way.

Is it "ok" to reveal the secrets of a GLO that has become defunct or been absorbed into another GLO? (I'm not referring to mergers, where aspects of both GLOs' rituals are combined and preserved; I'm talking about situations where a GLO is completely absorbed by another GLO, or where a GLO totally dies out.) I don't believe it is, and I've never breathed a word of SigIPhi's secrets, even to other AEPhis. Am I just being silly?

An oath to keep a secret is still an oath, regardless of the organization to which you promised it. And some regard an oath more sacred than others. Clearly, you regard an oath more sacred than does your friend.

An oath is an oath.

An obligation always remains in force, whether your membership may cease.

Greetings,

A great question. I am a member of Lambda Chi Alpha Fraternity. Back in the late 1930s, Theta Kappa Nu merged with us. It was agreed at the time that the TKN Ritual would never again be done in its entirety. However, it was also agreed that the TKN Ritual would be simplified and thereafter used as our Associate Membership (pledge) Ritual. The Lambda Chi Alpha AM (pledge)Pin and the Theta Kappa Nu Active Badge were also combined into a new AM pin. In a very real sense, every member of Lambda Chi Alpha has worn the TKN Badge and participated in the TKN Ritual as an Associate Member.

Our AM Ceremony is a public ceremony. If interested, you might want to talk to some local Lambda Chis to see if you can get an invitation!

So, in our case, the secrets of TKN were revealed but not in the same format or in the detail of the original Ritual.

I always thought that this was a wonderful way of preserving TKN within the Bond of Lambda Chi Alpha Fraternity.

Best Wishes,

Mike Raymond, ZUZ

Exactly. This friend has no honor.

Are you sure she hasn't told AEPhi secrets?

Some spouses feel like that's okay.

yeah i agree with you, i'd be pretty mad too! i think you have a very valid reason to be mad... just like everyone else has said, an oath is an oath!

I think that's really interesting, because I know when the local at my alma mater decided to go national, they had to turn over their ritual to their new parent organization. I could tell that they were a little reluctant, because it was THEIRS, but I guess it was so they could approve it for an Inspiration week-like activity so the new chapter could perhaps still show it to their new members, combining the new tradition with the old.

I think I'd probably be upset too. You make a great point that even though you have your sisters and national org, that old ritual is a bond that you share with the women who helped you found your chapter.

As many said, an oath is still and oath.

Brother Raymond is absolutly correct. 1939, TKN merged with LXA and is still the largest in Greek History.

AS many things were interegrated within LXA, it is still important to many Brothers of Both LXA and TKN.

For those who do not know, The Coat of Arms, New Associate Pin, New Associate Initiation were tailored to this fact.

Is it important, I would just ask you if your were on the other end, what would you think?

Each Greek Organization is special and so are all of the information for them.:cool:

Good call Mike, but as for the most inner secrets of TKN, which I have come across in my membership over time, I would only reveal them to initiated brothers of LXA. I have the same respect for TKN as I do for LXA, and wouldnt disrespect TKN by revealing any additional secrets not already revealed.

A secret is a secret and an oath is an oath.

I'd probably be irked too, but I think saying she has "no Honor" is going too far.

Lifesaver,

You are absolutely right, "a secret is a secret and an oath is an oath." It is a matter of honor, trust, loyalty and respect for the traditions of the group to keep your word. I am afraid that too many have forgotten the importance of keeping commitments. A fraternity and sorority can help young people gain a better understanding of how important these attributes are to maintaining a civilized society.

Mike Raymond, ZUZ

My sentiments exactly.

I know this is slightly off topic but Kappa Phi's rituals are technically public, BUT out of respect for my organization I wouldn't go around shouting them out to everyone who asked. :)

I read this thread and was a little surprised by the reactions, given that the person in question was the husband of this sister. I guess to me, "the two shall become one" has a lot stronger meaning to me than the vows to my fraternity, and I do not consider anything that I share with my husband (or anything that others choose to share with their spouses) to be breaking a confidence, a vow, an oath, or any other honor code, as we have been joined together. While I don't presume to tell people what they should and should not reveal to their spouses, I just don't think it's reasonable to admonish those who choose to have no secrets.

I think the main issue here is his insensitivity in bringing it up in conversation to others. After all, his is NOT one of her sisters and should not assume that others are comfortable with him having this knowledge.

i guess it's up to each individual what they share with their spouse, but being married myself...i haven't and i wouldn't. if my husband were meant to know our ritual, he'd be a woman and an initiated member...

just a thought...

marissa

I agree totally. My ex was all about sharing his rituals with me and visa versa. He was like "what does this mean?" and "i know this means something" or "I saw a this".
I never told anything b/c that was between me and my girls. And that was important to me.
But some people do not look at it like that. Which is really sad.

Well...I guess I would just have to disagree. I just find nothing "really sad" about having the kind of bond and trust with your spouse that allows you to share everything with one another. :)

in perspective...
 

I think it was 1956 or so that an old lady in her late 80s in Lyons,
KS wore her Kappa Kappa Gamma badge as a barrette, or a hair
something. The KU and KSU girls were horrified!
Some have taken their badges and had them made into rings.
Many have simply misplaced them.
Rituals, existing or defunct clubs, are available on e-bay or can be
found almost anywhere. Pissed off Masons and snake handling
baptist preachers have sprayed the waves with esoteric secrets.
In the whole scheme of things, these things are simply adjuncts
to FRATERNITY, old wine in new bottles.
When was the last time you volunteered to help a chapter of your
organization?
Prioritizing things would be a plus in this era when the GLO's are
trying to come back.

Well said. Hubby doesn't seem to know how to be discreet.
I don't think the wife was right to blab the secret, but since she did, she should have told her husband not to blab them in public. Oy yoi yoi.......:rolleyes:

I dunno... I sure wouldn't want my doctor breaking their oath and revealing my medical history to his/her spouse...

Does sharing fraternity secrets really make a marriage stronger?

Some things I just see as NOT Mr. Munch's business...my parents' financial situation, things that were told to me in confidence from other friends, and some information regarding past relationships. He doesn't give two shits about our ritual, and nothing would be gained from my telling him.

What she said! Mr. 1228 knows better than to ask me about Beta Sigma Phi (their ritual is rather public, IMO) or Alpha Phi. He is pretty much of the "I don't wanna know because I am clueless" club

My first husband was a Lambda Chi and we never shared any ritual secrets. We never pressured each other either as we both understood that it wasn't to be shared. I believe the vows I took meant NOBODY other than Initiated Members. We don't invite spouses to Initiation. If spouses were supposed to know and if it was ok to share it with them, then they'd be invited to Initiation. Even when we have an alumnae club meeting at someone's house and do our opening meeting ritual, the spouse and kids can't be home. My second husband never asked, because he wasn't Greek and had no idea that anything meant anything. My daughter has asked and I told her that the only way to find out is by being initiated into AGD and that I would love to share it with her and talk with her about it THEN.

Dee

Wow, just wow.

I'm sure all of your sisters are overjoyed that one of their own has admitted that she picks and chooses which vows she will keep depending on her life circumstances at the time.

I hope you're not a doctor. Doctors take an oath that they will keep patient information private. Lawyers, similarly, aren't allowed to blab about their clients EVEN to a spouse. Does your husband also share your careless attitude toward secrets he swore to keep? Geez, I hope he's not in the military.

Honor means keeping your vows. Period. You don't get to pick and choose. You, my dear, seem to be sorely lacking in that department and I feel sorry for your sisters and even for your husband. Afterall, you might get tired of him in a few years and decide to get rid of him. There's really nothing keeping you two together except for those pesky wedding vows and we all know how you feel about vows :rolleyes:

Re: in perspective...
 

<hijack>The KU and KSU Kappas should not have been horrified. They're forgetting some of their most important Fraternity history. KKG was born on October 13, 1870, when six women wearing Golden Keys in their hair boldly marched into chapel at Monmouth University.

In that spirit, to this day there are no rules in Kappa's Constitution that discuss the wearing of the badge, save that the badge is for initiates only. As one of my chapter sisters jokes, "We could wear our badges on our @$$es if we wanted to!" :eek: :p ;)

But out of respect for our Key and our oath, we do not.

</hijack>

people break vows all the time-especially in the arena of marriage and we're going to go psycho over a wife telling her husband a few sorority things. You can not simplify the whole world into "a vow is a vow"......no its not. Some are much more sacred than others. Some are just the silly things we unknowingly agree to when we are 18 years old and want to fit in desperately. Of course it would iritate me too and yes I think it is a little disrespectful, but everyone takes sorority life more or less seriosuly than others. The people that post here are the enthusiastic exception in my opinion, not the rule. My ex told me all about his one time, I can't even remember what he said. That is probably yhte case here too...if it doesn't really have much meaning to you, you probably are going to forget it anyway.

Oh, really? Some vows are more sacred than others? Whose job is it to decide which vows warrant which degree of sanctity? Yours? What if you're the only person in your group who decides the vow you took isn't important? Do you blab? Isn't that disrespectful to the people who took that same vow, yet still uphold it?

Just come out and say that you don't respect some of the vows you've taken in your life. If you want to conduct yourself that way, that's fine. But don't try to justify if with an arguement that some things are more sacred than others.

Ok guys, simmer down :)

I'm also married, but I haven't said a peep to my husband about SigIPhi's or AEPhi's secrets. Nor has he told me any Masonic secrets. I took a vow on my wedding day to support and cherish my husband, and he vowed to do the same for me. I took an oath when I was initiated into SigIPhi, and another when I was initiated into AEPhi, which included not revealing the secrets of either org to anyone not a member. My husband no doubt took a similar oath when he became a Mason. These oaths are not incompatible with wedding vows. I didn't swear on my wedding day to love and honor my husband and tell him what my sorority's letters mean.

I believe Carol's thinking is that she took an oath to SigIPhi, but SigIPhi doesn't exist any more, so it's ok to share the secrets. (I didn't get a chance to talk to her privately and ask, so this is conjecture on my part.) I don't share that belief. I took an oath to SigIPhi, and even though the org doesn't exist any more, my SigIPhi sisters are still around... besides, I'm just not the type to break my word.

I guess if she had to share the information, better that she tell her husband, the person she's closest to in the world, rather than spread it all over the internet or something. :)

One of my sisters told me an interesting story. Seems her grandfather was a Mason, but he was kicked out because he had enlisted his wife's help in learning his degree work - thereby revealing the org's secrets to her. Oops.

Cosign on every single word. (even though I'm not married) "When you're truly in love you share every single thing" is probably responsible for a host of relationship/marital problems and collapses.

Hell, Mr 33 didn't want to hear that I bought pore strips for my nose, let alone any of my sorority secrets.

and I don't know who said that their friend's local had to turn over their secrets to their new national....umm HELL no....especially if there are members of the local who choose not to affiliate with the national. The TKN & LXA situation, that's a little bit different.

Well, during my NM period, I was told that all rituals were to be shared only amongst Sigmas only. When I'm married, my hubby will not be one, obviously, so he doesn't get the privilege of knowing. Simple as that, and I'm sure he'll understand :)

Sorry, but I think it is pretty black and white. A vow is a vow. And breaking a promise is breaking a promise. And just because people break them all the time does not make it okay.

Sure, some vows are "more sacred" if you will, but if I can't honor the "little vows" (such as the one that I made when I was 19 to keep my Fraternity's secrets secret -- not that I consider that a "little" vow, but some might), then why should my wife think I'd do any better at honoring the "big" vows.

What I find sad is the lack of respect in a marriage where one spouse feels the need or desire to pressure the other to break a promise. I'm reminded of the advice given to Ms. MysticCat and me in the homily at our wedding: May you have enough openness with each other that you would never mind having your mail read by the other and enough trust in each other that you would never want to read each other's mail.

I really don't think that's what "the two shall become one" is all about. As someone pointed out above, you can believe that as a lawyer I don't share everything with my wife -- I have confidences that I'm legally and ethically (and morally) required to keep to myself. They're not pillow talk. Confidences from friends and family should be treated the same way.

Perhaps it's not so much that some vows are more sacred than others but that some secrets are more important marriage-wise than others. Of course, there are some secrets that will harm a marriage if kept -- GLO secrets ain't among them. If keeping one's vow to one's GLO regarding secrecy is going to hurt the marriage, then it's not secret that's really hurting the marriage -- it's the lack of respect.

I guess I just don't understand why any husband would care about your sorority secrets. Mr. ADqtPiMel would be all, "I don't get it, why are you telling me that you all wear azure blue catsuits and have pillow fights?" (Or something like that ;) )

I think anyone who takes their GLO vows lightly is probably someone who doesn't plan on being a member forever... they're probably just in it for four years.

My fiance doesn't really understand my sorority, but he went to a community college and has never experienced GLOs. He asked a little bit in the beginning what things were about and didn't understand why I couldn't share, but now he totally understands. My family is the same way, too. They finally realize that it's something I take very seriously and will not ever share with them.

I take any vows seriously, whether they be for my sorority, my wedding, or anything else. I don't think you can judge and say "Oh, this is a vow I can break, but this one isn't." But look at how many people nowadays break their marriage vows. With people breaking vows that sacred, I'm not surprised people don't take their GLO vows seriously. It makes me sad.

Hmmm.... this thread needs to be bumped.

Well, thankfully for all I am neither a doctor nor a lawyer nor even a nurse....so we can all breathe a huge SIGH of relief! All you ready now?....all together...inhale, exhale.

I think it is simply a matter of how you look at things. To me, my spouse is an extension of me....and I simply would have no problem sharing with him any aspect of my life because we are partners. If he wanted to know (which I'm sure is probably the last thing on his mind) yes, I would probably tell him. And other than reading this board, I would expect that my sorority sisters would not have any inkling about that because my husband would know that it is not appropriate to attempt to bond with my sisters over this knowledge.

I guess I am just one of those people who takes the words that "the two shall become one" very seriously and I think it is quite different from telling my aunt or my uncle or a close friend. But this is ME....not you or anyone else....and I do not presume to force you to AGREE with my interpretation or judge you based on your choices of what you choose to share and do not share in your marriage. Am just offering a perspective that would explain why the original posters friend may have shared this stuff with her spouse.


:D

Why should your husband trust your marital vows when you can't even keep a simple, and effortless oath like not revealing your fraternal secrets?

I take any vows seriously, whether they be for my sorority, my wedding, or anything else. I don't think you can judge and say "Oh, this is a vow I can break, but this one isn't." But look at how many people nowadays break their marriage vows. With people breaking vows that sacred, I'm not surprised people don't take their GLO vows seriously. It makes me sad. [/B][/QUOTE]

*grinning widely at this one*
I think there is an assumption that because one shares with her husband, she is taking her GLO vows "lightly" and I would have to disagree. because our interpretations are just different in terms of what we consider to be a broken vow....for me, when two people are joined together in marriage, sharing with that spouse is *not* breaking a vow because you are now ONE. I would not make the same argument for sharing this information with my brother, my sister, my mom, my dog, my cat, etc....

I understand that some may not view this spiritual connection with your spouse in the same way as i do....and that's up to you....but it seems odd not to allow for the possibility that those who do to be just as "serious" about their vows as others.

And, I had to grin at the "just in it for four years" assumption....as this is so not true in my case. Generalizations are rarely a good idea.

*giggles* oh my....