Odd sex experience, what do you think?
 

Here is this story.

This girl I know went out with her Girlfriend and Girlfriends's Boyfriend to a bar, had some drinks and went to a party and had more drinks.

She was pretty wasted. At the party itself she started to get kind of foggy from alcohol, she had drank a lot by her standards.

Her Girlfriend and Girlfriend's Boyfriend left early. The party was mainly full of guys from the boyfriend's faternity.

She left with a guy that she had been kissing earlier and a designated driver that took them back to the guy's house.

In the car the alcohol hit her even harder and she doesn't remember much of the ride.

She remembers having to use the bathroom in his house but not going to the bathroom.

After that she remembers waking up lucidly and realizing she was having sex with the guy, and then fading out again and then snapping back and realizing she was still having sex.

She remembers kind of snapping into focus twice during sex and seeing the clock, and then nothing until morning.

In the morning she wakes up in bed with him, sans clothing, and is kind of uncomfortable.

He drives her home, and she hasn't heard from him since.

He would be considered an acquaintance. He is the fraternity brother of her girlfriend's boyfriend. He has hung out in the group before but they have no direct relationship. Never talked on the phone or anything. But her friend says he liked her earlier in the summer.

What she is confused about is she doesn't know how she went from just kissing to sex because she doesn't remember the steps in-between and doesn't remember much of the sex either. she kept falling in and out of consciousness or awareness.

Any questions?
I figured I would ask what you guys think before I shared my own thoughts . . so what do you guys think?

Who would want to have sex with someone who was barely lucid? :confused:

this sounds like a classic case of rape to me. any guy with half a brain in this day and age would have realized that she was way way too drunk to be taking advantage of her, regardless of how much he liked her or vice verse. no matter what had happened up to that point, once she was no longer lucid, he needed to stop.
quite honestly i don't know what else to say about it. sadly i'm not shocked that it happened, but more annoyed that some guys still haven't realized that they can't take advantage of a drunk/passed out chick. IT'S RAPE. IT'S ILLEGAL. get it through your thick a$$ skulls. you have to have some sort of brain to be in college, use it for heaven's sake!

shelley j
sigma k

She wasn't competent to consent. She was raped.

Also, this guy is a half notch above a necrophiliac.

Real nice of her friend to leave your friend alone in a situation where the girl was left with virtual strangers.:rolleyes:

As for the guy that she had sex with supposedly liking her, I doubt he's going to want to have to do anything with her now. If he did like her he would not have had sex with a passed out girl. Instead he would have directed designated drive guy take her home and not his place.

Depending upon how much time has passed, it's probably too late to have any rape kit testing done. She should take herself to Student Health or Planned Parenthood to get checked out as well as get counseling. Since she doesn't remember what happened and with whom, there's the possibility of STD's and pregnancy. Could there also be a workup to see if the date rape drug is in her system?

She was raped, plain and simple. She couldn't give consent.

At a bare minimum, she needs to go to the hospital or a clinic ASAP and get checked out. She could have been exposed to an STD and/or become pregnant. She also needs to write down what she does recall, while it is fresh in her mind.

I'm wondering if someone slipped something in her drink at the party? They may be able to do some tests at the hospital, depending on how much time has passed.

What kind of sicko takes advantage of a girl who's semi-conscious?? :mad:

Was she already wasted when her "girlfriend" left? If so, you have to wonder what kind of "friend" this girl is, to leave her alone in that situation.

Its probably too late for a blook work-up. But she freely said that she drank way more than she should have or normally does.

She drank enough that a drug would have been redundant.

96 hours is the ceiling for most "date rape" drugs. It's really more like 48 hours, since the amounts needed to cause what we saw here are pretty low. I would suggest going to a hospital so they can do the basic probes to collect forensic information.

This is rape. Pure and simple.

Please support your friend as she goes through this difficult time.

She is not all that upset really. The event is kind of surreal because she doesn't remember much of it.

I was actually wondering if I made her more upset about than she would have been.

When I talked to her it was a day or two later and she was still really processing it.

I was kind of like . . . wtf? I kept getting more irritated the more I asked questions because it seemed the guy was out of line to say the least.

The story didn't come out as clearly as I wrote it. At first she was just relating it as a one night stand, it wasn't until more information came out and I asked more questions that the situation seemed inappropriate.

Her initial reaction was kind of, wow I had sex with a cute boy, I wish I could remember it. It might have been a good time.

What I was wondering is whether our experiences are not shaped to a certain degree by the reactions of the people around us.

Would she have thought the guy was as out of line as she ended up thinking had I not said anything? OR would she have just thought "my bad."

She was still in the processing mode after all.

I felt kind of bad after talking to her because I wondered if I had made a situation that would have rapidly faded into a more significant event.

Perhaps I should have been non-commital and been totally guided by her subdued reaction rather than perhaps making the situation of more importance than it needs to be.

There is still a predator out there that will do it again to another girl. I understand that she might not be uncomfortable with it, but she might want to consider the future women who will also be raped by this guy.

It's not uncommon for sexual assault victims, soon after what happened, to seem subdued or even just "out of it." Sometimes, they are still in shock or denial.

Agreed!

She should still go to the hospital or a clinic. If this guy took advantage of her, he's probably taken advantage of other women in the past. Who knows how many partners he's had - willing or un?

She should also write down what she can recall of what happened. A few months or years from now, she may change her mind about how she wants to handle the situation, and it will help her to have an account written at the time than some even-less-well-remembered recollections that have been dulled by time as well as alcohol (and possibly other drugs).

I feel really sorry for your friend. I think that she should go to a doctor for an exam and a rape kit if that's possible at this stage. I agree that he is probably a predator and might do this again. I also agree that she is probably in shock about what happened.

The same thing happened to a friend. She didn't go to the authorities because she felt ashamed and embarrassed and partly responsible. She also couldn't remember the details. She later regretted not reporting it. She had a really hard time for a long time. :(

You should not feel bad at all for making her think about what happened. As for the "surreal experience" - she was prolly in some sort of denial shock. You did the right thing by talking to her. Because if you hadn't this incident would have come up later in her life - just remembering more and more. It would've hit her eventually.
So, answering your question: she prolly would've felt "my bad" at first....then major guilt perhaps later on, then "wait a minute - this isn't right" po'd anger.
All you did was speed up the process in my opinion.

And I second the aephi alum when she said "What kind of sicko takes advantage of a girl who's semi-conscious??"

Rape. This is rape.

James I know we've talked about this but please let me know if you have any other questions.

That's all I'll say.

James, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Never again will she need the strong presence of a man who understands what has happened to her than now. I'm glad that she has you as her friend.

This happened to a friend of mine in school; the perpetrator had been accused of date rape prior to my friend, but no one ever pressed charges. He was a football player who STILL works just off campus, and no matter what is said to the local greeks, they STILL continue to order/buy from him! I don't know what gets me angrier, that he didn't do time, or that people still think of him as "Joe Football"!

I'm sorry to hijack, but can I say i'm not surprised? He's a lowdown dirty sleazebag. Besides how dirty he is (he is totally the stereotypical sleazy Italian (i.e. Sopranos) guy), he's so shady with orders and stuff that most of my sisters started going the campus bookstore (the off campus one) b/c the letters and people were nicer. But for so long he was our only option for letters... I refused to go there when he was there.

/hijack

James, I hope your friend can work through all this.

:mad:

Thats Sexual Assault (no legal term for rape) up here... if the person was too drunk to give consent then it's a crime, so if she wasn't lucid or coherent then she could not give consent under the law and she could charge the guy...

All that aside the guy's a sack of shit and hopefully he'll get what's coming to him... let's just say he's lucky he's not from my chapter... or even my school.

[another hijack]

kddani, thank you SO MUCH for this confirmation! You don't know HOW many battles I've fought over that reason-that-old-Italian-women-wear-those-mazooka-thingies!!

[/another hijack]

Yes. She has to understand this. As does the person that did this to her. This is NOT okay. This: "wow I had sex with a cute boy, I wish I could remember it. It might have been a good time." is a very frightening statement to me. This is NOT her fault, this is NOT her "my bad." This was COMPLETELY and UTTERLY WRONG of that guy to do this to her.

It would not have rapidly faded. Trust me. It would have come back later and could be potentially more damaging if she does not deal with it now.

Be supportive, be encouraging. Let her talk things out or figure things through alone. Suggest going to visit a counselor, even if it's just to tell her story to an impartial person.

Damn, with everyone saying it was rape...let me ask you; Lets say I brought a chick home and was making out with her. In the middle of it all, she tells me she wants to give me the best blow job I've ever had. So, she starts to go down....but, as soon as she starts sucking....I pass out. She doesnt know I passed out till she's done. Is that sexual assault? Could she be put in jail for it? I think a lot of times situations like this happen, the person wakes up feeling good and as if they had a good time. But, once they start telling their night to their friends everyone starts telling them its rape because they were incoherent and before you know it charges are filed. I'd say 90% of the sex I had in college was drunken sex and that would apply to over 1/2 of the people out there as well. When you're in college, who the hell has sex sober unless its morning sex or before class sex? If I was the girl, I'd be pissed off at my friend who left me there instead of driving me home or letting me stay at her house like a good friend should have done. I thought most chicks watch out for their friends. :rolleyes:

cashmoney,
to answer your question:
if you can recall giving her permission/consenting to receive oral sex, then it's not illegal. if she decided to do it while you were passed out, then it is illegal b/c no consent was given. if a person (male or female) is unconscious and any sexual activity is performed on or with them, it is illegal. how can you give consent if you are unconscious?
i agree that there were plenty of drunken sexual encounters that i had during college, but there is a definate difference between rape and drunken sex. i've experienced both.

shelley j
sigma k

In CA if a girl is drunk it is illegal to have sex with her because she can't legally give consent. Now, people do give consent drunk all the time, and generally nothing happens, but the law exists to prevent stuff like this, where a person really is blacking out, or isn't in thier right mind.

I'm almost 100% sure that every state has added this to their consent laws - the reality is that, under alcohol laws, you are not in a mental condition to give any sort of legal consent for anything, sex included.

The fact that it seems she would have given consent anyway had she been sober (purely off the "cute guy" comment, no judging included) is irrelevant, at least in legal terms.

I had a situation very similar to this happen to me, but luckily I was with my boyfriend at the time. He found me wondering the streets about 3am in the morning and thought I was really drunk. He took me home and stayed with me. I don't remember anything except a couple of moments of what I thought was sex. The next thing I remember is my roomate waking me and my boyfriend up because a couple of my friends were taken to the hospital because of the date rape drug. I went downstairs and told her about what I remembered and she took me to the hospital. I didn't have a lot in my system, but enough to black me out. When I told my boyfriend about he was shocked because he said I was responding to him and even talking to him. Yep don't remember that at all.

Let me tell you...that was the last time that I ever drank anything that I didn't see get poured.

I hope your friend is well.

For those of you that view this as rape, do you also view this as a situation that warrants 5-10 years in prison for a guy?

Or maybe just an ass-kicking?

Honestly, I would say probation and required therapy or some sort of course on the issue.

I think a written apology to the girl (if she wants), some sort of counseling and an educational seminar to be given to his chapter especially if the attitude of "dude, I hit it with a totally wasted chick, I rule" is prevalent within the entire chapter.

The most important thing is that the boy needs to be made aware that what happened was wrong, and why.

Just remember though, once you involve the legal system a lot is out of your hands. You won't be able to pick and choose the punishment, usually you are talking jail time or nothing.

I agree! I was talking about what I, personally, would do with him if I could.

Does your school have a judiciary board? A disciplinary board? If it's a fraternity guy, is there an IFC "standards" board?

The biggest part of the problem is that this man is a RAPIST, and he needs to come to the realization of what he's done. Also, there needs to be something in writing to prove that he's done this at least once, because if he does it again, I hope he ends up doing 10-20 with a 500-pound roomie named Bubba!

I have mixed views on this--- while in college I would have said "rape" in a heartbeat.
Now, I am not sure what I would technically call it--- I will call it wrong.
You don't have sex with someone who is passed out, if that was the case---
but... i will play devils advocate here.... ( and i am sure you all will flame away)---Did James ever say that she didn't give consent? She could have been very much willing to have sex, even a drunken state of consent could have been given. We don't know. How many times have you all been drunk, made decisions, done something, whatever it was-- been told about it the next morning, don't remember it--the moment could be gone from your mind, all but a few seconds of the events-- but you weren't passed out, but yet you don't remember. You may not have made the best decision on your life, but you did make the choice to do the action. This very well could been the case.
Should the guy get 5-10 yrs in prison--NO.
Should the girl learn to take better control of her health and personal safety-- YES
Should the guy learn to make wiser choices-- YES
Should her friend get her ass kicked for leaving her "alone" in an altered state--YES.

James I think you should kick his ass.

James doesn't want to go to jail.

What if the dude was just as drunk or messed up?!?

Society tends to throw everything and anything on the guy.

-Rudey

okay....... I think James should hire someone to beat him up. ;)

good point rudey.
chances are the guy was pretty trashed himself, impairing his decision making skills. but seeing as how there was a DD in the picture, i'd imagine that he would have tried to help the situation.

shelley j
sigma k

James, how is your friend doing?

BINGO! The unchallenged part, and what I was insinuating in my previous post about the law/legality of consent, was that it applies to EVERYONE regardless of what you're doing or what your gender is.

If he was intoxicated, he can't legally give consent either.

So what now?

I'm surprised that people who agree that this was a rape situation would recommend getting the guy beat up or therapy.

If it were up to me, I would charge him with the mandatory minimum for sexual assualt. Date Rape=Rape.

And another thing. Her girlfriend was not got a good friend for leaving her at a party full of guys.


Rudey,

Last I checked, girls get raped by men far more often than the other way around.