MSN advice for women
 

http://msn.match.com/msn/article.asp...annerID=544658

That's right, women, don't look for a man who appreciates success. Play weak. That's the only way to find a husband!

If anyone clicks on the link, it provides the proper context for the excerpted parts.

No kidding, though, a lot of guys do get weirded out if their girlfriends/wives make more dough then they do. I was in that position twice, and it did sort of cause issues...you know, because society expects guys to foot the bill when they take us out, but if we make more money, that seems a little unfair.

That is so true! My mom and dad were great for years until my mom got a promotion with civil service that really gave her a great raise. Dad, who was retired, started all kinds of hsit and they ended up having real big problems. Interestingly enough, this was also about the same time that my mom went back and finished her college degree.

I've had cases where a relationship didn't work b/c the brain chemistry wasn't there. And I've also seen a situation where my brother-in-law totally walked away from a great woman who he was absolutely crazy about..smart, pretty, and they were in the same field. All he had to do was say the word, and she was his. She ended up marrying some guy from way out in left field...

Guys, what's the story?

I think it's too bad that so many men are intimidated by a successful woman that MSN had to come out with an advice column on how to 'downplay' your success. If a man cannot handle the fact that I've gone to college and I want to have a successful career, then I don't want him anyway.

Yea, but if you're 43 yrs old and have never been married but want that mister right.....don't you think it's a good idea to try something different if you can't get a mister right the way you're currently doing things?


Personally, I think she's gonna end up being a barren old hagg with a lot of money and a mid-20-something boy toy. :p

I don't know... Maybe I would or maybe I wouldn't try that out to see how it works but I would still find it sad that some guys couldn't handle a successful woman.

I like successful women...turns me on. Makes the challenge all the more better. I think those republican chicks all dressed up in buisness outfits are hot. BTW, have you noticed all the hotties wearing BUSH/CHENEY stickers across their boobs on their shirt? Last weekend before this last one in Gainesville I met 4 tri-delts and 2 KDs that had the stickers like that at a party. I think its kind of hot.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have read that women will often be unconsciously resentful of men that are less successful or have less status than they do.

And that resentmen comes across in various little ways destroying the relationship.

I know women that have been involved with men that have lost their jobs and grown very resentful of having to support them, even though the men may have supported the women earlier in the relationship.

I would say that a man wouldn't blink an eye at being the major if not sole financial supporter of a relationship.

Why the double standard ladies?

Maybe it's the same one that says we should be more than happy to wash your dirty socks all the time? :D

I dunno James... I can tell you from another topic somewhere that I cannot remember right now, that this issue has been brought up before...

It is a HUGE issue in the African American community... If a powerhouse sistah dates "inside the race (like inside the box)", she is liable to find many brothaman have less money and less education than her... If that is not a problem for her, then she will be fine... Unfortunately, most men (in general) do not like to be "emasculated" by a woman, period... And many powerhouse sistah's "must" do that kind of thing for office-political reasons--e.g. if she has to go to the Board of Director's dinner capital campaign with some sort of date, then she best show up with properly dress dude with knowledgeable speaking skills... And it gets worse if she has to show up to church with a date...

Most sistahs go it alone or not at all. They immerse themselves in their careers and work, because at least they look like they are doing "something" related to their career. That eventually leads many "single-but looking for brothaman" sistah's extremely lonely and detached from any human relationship...

Just go to my sorority's website and search for the pinings of sistah's who are dateless for numerous occasions... In fact there is some saying or poem that discusses this very topic in the African American community...

I, myself was one of the whiners... But somehow, I became blessed to meet the brothaman in my dreams... Most sistah's are not as blessed as I am... Which puts me in a very precarious situation...

I think that if the male significant other lost his job and isn't trying to find another job or volunteer to be a stay-at-home dad (if there are kids) or volunteer to be the one that stays home and does the housework, then, that's where the problem comes in. Basically, the point is this: if he's not doing his part, that's when women start becoming resentful. A marriage, in my opinion, is 50/50 and both partners have to take on their equal share in the marriage. That's just my $.02.

Thanks for the pennies, but did you even read the original article?


On-topic, I think that, when taken in context, the advice is (*gasp!*) not in any way misogynistic or anachronistic, but even perhaps 'correct' (in terms of strategy for getting a mate, not like morally etc)

Money is always an issue in any relationship -- how many times has one platonic friends said oh why don't we all do this (insert expensive idea here). And one stays quiet and doesn't come cause they don't have the dough. Or you try to plan a family reunion and everyone has to remember the family who isn't doing well enough financially to go on a cruise? And then does another family mention that family #1 cannot afford the cruise?

I think the columnist was right in saying, lady, maybe the problem isn't all the men in your life, just yourself and your own hang ups with money and power.

KSig RC,

I did read the article. Someone just said something about the mate losing his job or not having one and that was my pennies. I guess this was just another jab at my obvious stupidity.

that's pathetic, a lot of weak minded and weak hearted men who can't handle a intelligent, succesful, and professional woman. get a grip, fellas...your panties are showing.

Exactly. This is the woman who wrote a book about getting married after 33, and how she found her husband at HBS. Women write to her for advice on how to get a man--nothing more, nothing less.

The advice may be good advice from a practical perspective and still be a frustrating reminder that the advice is necessary because some men just do not have it together in the self-esteem department and need to feel smarter/richer/more prestigious than their date.

I think the advice is likely to help the writer. I also think it's a crying shame that women should have to minimize their achievements so as not to scare men away. And they do get scared away. When I was in law school, I met plenty of men in clubs who seemed very interested, danced with me, asked for my number, etc., and then vanished into thin air after they asked where I was in school. The word "Harvard" messes with a lot of men's minds. Maybe the smart "advice" would have been for me to lie or refuse to answer the question, but I just wouldn't do it.

i agree with this. but that leaves the strong, confident, intelligent and successful women for the us men who can handle it.

And congratulations for not doing it, because you've identified the gender politics involved in this sort of 'transaction' but not acting on it would make it all for nothing. That said, I think it's absurd to deride the author as somehow subversive to some sort of larger sense of feminine self, as some seem to want to do. The advice is a 'coping' strategy for working around an endemic problem - whether for better or worse, that's her solution. You and I seem to desire not to bow to gender imaging, but then again when I'm 45 I may have changed perspectives . . .

the problem that the author is facing is a surplus of individuals who can't get past the nature of her position or her achievements. the problem does not lie with her, so why should the author settle and introduce people in her life who can't get over the fact that they aren't as successful in their professional life as she is? it's a fact of life.

See, you've inverted the issues here - obviously the overriding problem is outside of her, and she should not be punished for being successful. I think all of us have agreed, however, that the unfortunate reality is that many men do carry this bizarre bias - and I'll go on record saying that this bias grows more widespread as you move into older segments of the American population.

So she shouldn't 'have to' settle, in the perfect-world sense of "have to" - however, it appears that she's actively seeking advice on how to obviate this egocentric male bias, and since she is being faced with such a surplus, where does she go from here?

It's sad that both the author and the woman in question are facing this dilemma, but I don't think the advice is misogynistic or negative in and of itself. The 'fact of life' does not come in your desire for her not to settle, but rather in the fact that this bias does exist, and she's going to either have to hold out for one that doesn't exhibit it (which is possible, as you and I have both stated) or find a way to cope. They appear to have chosen the latter - sad, but not necessarily a bad 'strategy' (even if we don't necessarily agree).

You're missing the key point here - when you say, "why should she have to settle?" and make the correct point that it's not really her fault, you are implying that these guys can somehow all the sudden not be biased or misguided in their views on successful women to change the situation. I just don't see these guys 'turning it off' like it's a light switch - it's a cultural bias, it will take generations to be eliminated. So I can't blame her for working around it as it were.

She shouldn't have to settle - but she might have to. Sucks.

Also - while this is great conceptually, let's not discount the fact that she might just be a bitch . . . much like successful men can be unattractive when they're dicks about it, she might just be bad about her success. We don't know, so let's keep it hypothetical for now.

I hear you IvySpice. I can't tell you how many guys have just stopped talking to me and walked away after hearing 'Stanford'. Also, I have another large pile of guys who stayed to talk, but had to bring me down with insults to make it ok (tell me they didn't think I was street smart for example).

my entire thought process revolves around the fact that there are plenty of men in the sea who can handle a woman of her caliber. she shouldn't settle, and if the only type of men she meets are those who can't handle someone such as her, then she should keep it moving until she does. all men shouldn't and won't be able to have that sort of self confidence in themselves that would cause them to see past this sort of tomfoolery. that's what the root of the problem is, and you're correct....it's an socieital mentality that is outdated. a lot of men in this society have such fragile egos that a woman who possibly could be better than they are financially would be a huge turn off. unfortunately, it does exist. is it ignorant? yes.

If you have to change who you are to be in a relationship with any particular person, for any reason, that relationship is doomed.

Be who you are and you'll end up with the right person for you. You have to be true to yourself, first and foremost.

Dee

What of the expression of your personality is caused by really neurotic tendencies as well as high amounts of uncontrolled stress and anxiety?

Remember that a lot of personaity traits are outward expressions of internal turmoil.

Agreed, but I'd also say that even if you don't end up with the right person for you, what is so bad about being alone? I'd rather be alone living in a house full of cats than be with some guy who couldn't deal or wanted some dumbed-down version of me.

I agree Val.. as I'm very verbal about...

James: I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you calling me neurotic? :eek: I probably am.. which is why I haven't found a man that I can tolerate living with! But I'm aware of that and am much happier alone!

Dee

ETA: I think, James, that you are actually asking "What if there is a good reason to change yourself?" Well, I am fully supportive of self improvement, if you're doing it for yourself, not for someone else. Therapy is pretty ineffective if you're just doing it because someone else wants you to change. Same with breaking addictions. You can't quit smoking for someone else, you have to be internally motivated, for example.

No no no. Not you. I mean that generally a lot of personality quirks are an expression of uncontrolled anxiety or stress.

So it would make sense that you might want to control that . . and then all else may change with it.

Just edited my earlier reply.. I think I interpreted the question correctly there.