Int Hq
 

Well, this post will be bitching, and since I know INT members read this board, you can tell Kipp that it was the big guy Matt from this weekend...

We had our ELC visit this week and it was going great. We also had Kipp come down to congratulate us on a great rush, since he was in town looking at Orlando locations for the next GA. We had an AM arrested stealing a wheelchair last week. We told Kipp about this and said we were taking corrective action and were very honest with him. This of course turned into a conversation about how we had "hazing problems" as well as separation issues. While I admit we are not perfect and are working on fixing some issues we have, we are saints on the UF campus as well as darn good for an SEC chapter in regards to fraternity education and have been making vast improvments in other areas.

We asked Kipp if he believed that most of the other chapters in the South as well as Grand High Alpha chapters were not hazing and did not have SERIOUS issues. We never really got a straight answer out of him, which is not supprising, but do they really think that Oklahoma is an anomoly? I know from experience that some of the other chapters in Florida haze their pledges, and I say pledges because that is what they are there, not AMs. I guess I just wonder why when we are making great improvements both locally and with international HQ we are being made out as flawed.

We are making the changes we need to, but I just wish INT HQ was not so disconected from the real world of chapters, as Oklahoma and LSU has proven that they are...

IN ZAX
Matt
EM 1843

re: Hazing
 

Hazing is a fast-growing cancer that's very hard to root out.
There's always a "we went thru it, they have to go thru it
too" attitude. Much goes on in LXA that INT HQ doesn't
know about...that's why they seem to "over-react" when
there is a hint of it. Usually, though maybe not in your
chapter, if they see a "little something", its just the tip
of the iceberg.

Actually its amazing how quickly hazing can "crop up" and
grow. This happened long ago, so I guess it's OK to
mention it now:

At the time LXA started its colony at Vandy, it was the
first time in almost 50 years that a new fraternity was
allowed to come on campus. Vandy's frats had a very
very serious hazing problem at the time, and LXA's
no hazing policy and AM program was a major reason
some in Vandy's admin allowed LXA to colonize. It was
hoped by some that LXA would become an example for
the others.

The anti-hazing was a major factor in attracting the
"founding fathers." LXA was a new group on a very
traditional campus, and would be the only fraternity
without a house (that was a condition of colonization...
the chapter and HQ would not ask for a house).
So why would anyone join a new group in that
situation?? The emphasis on anti-hazing was one.

So the "founding fathers" were strongly anti-hazing.
Some turned down bids from other strong groups to
join the new group.

But as usually happens with a brand new colony, INT HQ
put an alumni advisory board in charge, made up of alums
from other chapters (obviously). In the beginning this
was a large group....15-20 alums at each meeting.

But many of the alums wanted to institute so-called
"baby hazing" in the new chapter, ideas they brought
from their chapter. Most wanted to make the new chapter
"in the image" of theirs. There was nothing "major" they
wanted to do....put a "pledge" in an (unplugged) oven
was the worst I heard. Making them carry purple coconuts
was a pretty typical suggestion. Treating the new AMs
like they were in boot camp might best describe what they
wanted to do (yelling, cleaning, etc).

Obviously the undergrad officers didn't want any of this,
being the ones who wanted to join a non-hazing fraternity,
but INT HQ had put these alums "in charge", and the
alums would always say "I've been a LX for years,
none of the actives has been one for more than a
couple of months. we know what we're doing...shut
up and do what you're told" kinda attitude.

The "founding fathers" obviously received NO hazing.
Many were only AMs for a few days, some for only
a couple of hours (AM ceremony at 4:00, initiation
started a few hours later).

The first AM class, a small one at 5or 6, went thru an AM
period basically ran by the alums. "Baby hazing" was
used. After initiation, these guys couldn't wait for next
semester when they could "baby haze" the new group.
It was telling...the attitude difference between the
founding fathers and the first AM class.

That's when the officers finally realize they had to put
a stop to it before more members came in being hazed
and therefore being in favor of hazing later. Eventually
most of the alums were "run off", but by then, the
colony was operating on its own. Everything turned
out great in the end.

But it really made it obvious to me how easily hazing
can crop up, and how those who were hazed, "baby"
or otherwise, WILL have an attitude in favor of hazing.

Disaster occurs as "hazing creep" over the years sets
in. What you think is "just a little fun" this year can turn into
beatings, forced drinking, etc. in just a few years.

So may your guys and HQ can just give each other
a break! ;)

I understand all that, and that is why we are being open and honest. But if those things can happen in a colony, and MUCH MORE SERIOUS events can happen in a Grand High Alpha chapter, it seems ludicrious to me to veiw us as some freak chapter. In stead of allowing our officers, who want to make many of these changes themselves, INT feels that they must tell us what to do.

ELCs cannot see what is wrong with a chapter as long as they report back to HQ. As Kipp said, "Oklahoma was able to hide [their actions] from us." Why then, when we are being honest, does he still view us in the same light as them or our neighbors at UF...

Maybe if that is the head in the sand attitude then, there is a problem.

It should not be a Profess one thing and do another.

Hazing has been a very strong no-no as long as I can remember being a LXA.

Big school or small, it is still wrong by our By Laws.

To be open with a situation and not looked at as a few individuals maybe and not the total Chapter then that is short sightedness.

If, it goes back to s dont tell situation then it can get out of hand.

It sounds like poor judgement as JoinerLXA said to put Alums in who did have a hazing back ground and thank goodness run off.

The first time I heard New Associate was from George Spasyk in 1966 and we discussed it into the wea hours of the morning.

While it did not take effect until a few years later, LXA once again led in GreekDom with new inovations and ideas.

That is what LXA is supposed to be about, not like all of the rest.

To be honest, is supposed to be the correct way for LX's to do things. We are not followers, but leaders.!:cool:

The total idea is to look at the problem, get it corrected and not make a Scene out of it and turn it into a situation that is totally out of preportaion. Solve the problem and then carry on.

One problem does not make a Bad Chapter, just a stupid individual that can be cut away while the rest carry on.

Matt, I also hope that the neighbors are not LXA Chapters but other Greeks.

The neighbors are both other chapters here at UF as well as other LCA chapters in Florida and the South.

Are you sure HQ views you as a "freak chapter" and
equivalent to a chapter with major hazing problems??
Or is that a little understandable, passionate exxageration?

I think if HQ thought your chapter had MAJOR hazing problems,
they would have just taken the charter and the books
and left town (heard of that happening before!)

My past experience with ELC's is that every-other-one is
a pretty good and level-head brother....and that doesn't
mean "easy" or "wink and nod." But the other half were
pretty much a**holes. They just needed a little more
training in "diplomacy" or "constructive" in "constructive
criticism"

Lets see....is this an even or an odd year? ;) LOL

Our ELC was actually ok, except for the fact that we told him as officers we would resolve the situation and to let us handle it. He chose to talk about it at his closign meeting, which let more brothers know what the situation was.

The person who said we were the same as the people beating their pledges was our COO Kipp Zurcher. That was also the person we asked if he beleived all the other LCA chapters that are GHA chapters are not hazing the way LSU and OU were.

Hey Em,
It's called a double standard, our IHQ is filled with them. So don't worry about it. It is sad though that instead of helping you guys resolve a minor situation, they (HQ) decided to blow it out of proportion. Let me ask you a question, the next time an ELC visits and you have a question or wanted to talk about some incident that they were not aware of, will you talk to them again?

From what I have seen, IHQ is very disconnected from many of our chapters, including my former. It's not the case everywhere I'm sure, but there are many that feel that way.

I'm working on a post right now that somewhat deals with that: Gamma Zeta and the end. I'll be adding to it soon. IHQ pretty much has a "cookie cutter" way in its methods.

Try doing something their way, if it fails, keep doing it; is pretty much their motto.

Maybe a little dissconected, but the cause might be that we as LXA have so many chapters that have to be contacted on a regular basis.

I cant remember who posted that LXA had cut staff personel but on the stage at G A, they were pretty impressive.

Still again, there are a lot of Chapters all around the country, some with problems, and some without.

I was dismayed while at GA that IHQ was upset when the committee that I was on gave another year extension to NC A & T.

For thos that dont know, it is a HBC that has the first supposedly HWF colonized on a campus.

I met and spent a lot of time with the young men and advisor while there and encouraged them and have since been in contact with Cliff Lowery their advisor.

Wouldnt it be great if None Of the Chapters ever had problems?

But, if there is a problem then hone in on it and get it corrected, not just leave out in the cold or take the charter.

There is a thing that goes back that is called a flying force. That boils down to if there is a real problem Chapter, send in the flying force and get it taken care of, but dont create problems if there are some or are minor.

I have to agree with much of what EM said, esp. the part
about cookie-cutter solutions. But you have to remember
there is ALOT of turnover at HQ....except for the "upper
eschelon", most only work there for a couple of years.
As with most businesses and institutions, the secretaries
actually run the place ;)

[case in point: a few years ago, our Alum pres called HQ
to ask about the progress made on approving an honorary
member....honorary members have to be "approved" by
HQ. He talked to a secretary, and SHE said that SHE
approved the application and sent a response yesterday
:) It's just paperwork.]

There's alot of inconsistencies at HQ as well (or at least
there used to be). When I was involved with the Vandy
colony, we obviously had alot of contact with HQ (more
than the regular chapter).

We discovered that if you called HQ to ask about something,
and got an answer you didn't like, that you should call
the next day, ask someone ELSE the same question,
and you'll get a different answer. Keep calling until you
get the answer you want! They tend to make up rules
as they go, especially on narrowly-focused, unique
questions. ;)

Case in point: I was in grad school at Vandy. Our constitution
says grad students can choose to be alum or active, though
its a bit vague. The colony officers asked me if I would
become active (for various reasons). Reading the constitution,
I wasn't sure exactly how that worked.

So I called HQ. The first time I was told that grad students
can only be active if its at the same Zeta as their undergrad
(I wasn't).

The second time I called, I was told you could only be active
for 8 semesters, and since I had already done that, I
couldn't be active at Vandy. I said "I was only active for
6 semesters as an undergrad" (deferred rush back then,
only sophomores and above could rush). He said,
OK, then you can be active for 2 semesters then.

The third time I called, I was told as long as the colony went
through the same process to "give me a bid," I could be
active as long as they/I wanted. We liked that answer,
so we took it :D

O M G Kev to funny to be beleived!:)


But, truth is probably stranger than fact!:(

Here again with the over worked staff of some great ladies it is tough I am sure.

But, those working there do a heck of a job.

If you made the trip to IHQ at GA then you would understand about them working their rears off to get it presentable!

Oh, I didn't say the secretaries don't work hard or do good
work....on the contrary, my insinuation was that they run
the place! Something I've found true almost everywhere
I've worked/learned!

And with the Vandy/active-grad-student question, NONE of
the three I talked to were secretaries...all three were
ELC's or Dir. Chap. Svcs. or some such (brothers).

What I think IHQ should do is simply disband, keep a small office for the Grand High Alpha, and regionalize all operations with small offices all over. With today's technology, 6, 7, 8 or 9 offices across the USA would make everything more personalized and probably more efficient. Then the regional ELC would know about the chapters they visit, do updates, etc. Recruitment would also most likely be more effective. Paperwork would be more consistent. After all, LXA is a pretty vast corperation with alot of interests spread all over the USA. It only makes sense to have regional offices.

It would end up costing alot of $$$ to do that...having to
maintain 8 small offices is more expensive and would probably
require more staff than maintain a central office. That's why
so many large corporations, like banks, MERGE....overhead
costs go down when you centralize.

But the idea of regional directors (along with a central office)
is a good one....in fact, before the "stock market crash",
our IHQ was already setting those up. But when the money
went bye-bye, so did the regional offices and directors,
the ones that had been established anyway.

Now if the chapters want more service from IHQ, and
want more visits from an ELC, the solution is simple:
double or triple national dues!

A proposal for the 2006 GA:
"Dues shall be tripled and the number of visits from ELC's
shall double; each ELC visit shall be extended to a full
week (7 days)....so there will be an ELC at your chapter
14 days out of the year."

I bet that one would get a unanimous vote!! ;)

ADDENDUM: ELC shall always visit during I-week and the
presence of an ELC shall always be required at every initiation.
(woo hoo!)

The authority to approve honorary initiations rests with the Grand High Zeta under Article VI, Section 4. I can't speak to the process followed prior to the 2002 GA, but I can assure you that today these applications are "processed" by the staff at Headquarters, but "approved" by the Grand High Pi. I reviewed and approved two such applications just last week.

In ZAX,
Lynn Chipperfield

Lynn,

I think this honorary app was before 2002. But when the
secretary said "I approved that yesterday," she probably
meant she completed the paperwork and sent the letter
yesterday, after someone else "official" had approved it.

Then again, the GHZ could delegate some authority like
that I guess....instruct HQ/secretaries "if the following
is satisfied, go ahead and approve" Not sure exactly
what happened.

Our chapter has a "bad?" reputation for honoraries....an
ELC back in the late 80s told us we had more than all
the chapters on the west coast combined....probably true!

But most of them are faculty members, so its good to get
them involved with the chapter. One of our faculty honoraries,
who moved on to Alabama (I think) a long time ago just
received the Order of Merit at last GA (I believe). We didn't
even realize he was "one of ours" until the article about him
came out in the C&C. He's spent the last few decades working
with a chapter(s) down south and we haven't heard from
him for years.

Lynn, good to see you on here.
I think consistant ELC visits help a chapter, but this was our first one in 3 semesters. I understand budgets and all, but that is a bit excessive. We also traded an ELC visit for an Impact I retreat.
I just hate to see INT so detatched from the real world of colleges and fraternities. Perhaps this is true only in the south, but I know not every chapter in the area follows the national ideal.
I firmly believe a program of fraternity education and big brother packets printed or at least offered by INT HQ would help alleviate many of these problems, at least for us. Post them online in the chapter resources section or include them in the Paedagogus.

Wouldn't work... basically for many of the complaints you and others have brought up... basically there needs to be consistant and central "authority" on most if not all matters that affects the Fraternity. The reason for this is that for a HQ it is vital that the left hand knows what the right is doind so to speak... while I don't always agree with the operations of the Fraternity I do understand (well for the most part) why things happen the way they do, and 99% of the time it comes down to communication. As soon as communications between a chapter/colony and IHQ get fouled up, shit is unfortunately sure to follow... as surely as if communications get fouled within a chapter.

True, but do you think it may be possible to regionalize certain aspects of the general fraternity? Maybe have regional offices for ELC's and recruitment? Having regional ELC's may also put the cost of travel down, encourage ELC recruitment and also have them more familiar with the chapters they visit.

Just a though. I would love to see something like that. The good news is our fraternity is huge! The bad news that comes with that is it loses that personal touch.

Go to lambdachi.org.

Go to ELCs.

At Present, there are 11 ELCs and 3 Regional Coordinators.

While it says 3 Regional Coorinators, there are more Regions than that.

What is the eye popper is looking at the map and see how far afield LXA is spread.

Now, Think of States where there are a lot of Chapters, and where there are damn few.

Basically the butt or windsheild time is time that is taken up by miles of looking at the sceanery. Wyom., Id., Nev for 3 examples and a lot of the Canadian Chapters.

States like Cal. Penn. Fl. where there are a lot of Chapters but still drive time. Why do you think that the ELCs stay at the Chapter houses? Called $$$$$$$$$!

Could we use more ELCs, of course but at what cost to All of us?

Oh easy, higher dues is the main answer.:( OOPS, not a great idea there is it?


There was an amendment proposed in General Assembly that held to a Minimum of 20 Active members and if not, then the Active Chapter had to make up the difference. Needless to say, it was not well accepted at all.

Granted, it cost the same for an ELC to vist a 10/15/20/60 man chapter as it does for any and all, it is still a cost. But, The Back Bone of the Fraternity is the smaller Chapters who are still trying to grow and some times problems are out of their control.

joinerlxa, out of curiousity, who was that?

I guess it just goes to show that Yes Honorary Members do do good work. Must be true if one is awarded The Order of Merit.

New C & C? Have not gotten one yet!:(

Looking forward to it as will be the first since G A!

I don't remember his name (I never met him)....but there
was an article in the C&C recently (last issue, or one before
that). He's been High Pi at a chapter on Ala. (Ala-Birmingham,
I think, not sure) for many years. I think he received OoM
at the last GA.

But I didn't know he was a faculty honorary from Gtown,
who "transferred" to Ala. in the late 60's/early 70's
until it was mentioned in the C&C.

Don't have my C&Cs readily available, but if you thumb
through the most recent 1 or 2, you'll see the article.

This is the first post I have found extremely interesting in a long time. EM, I must say I met a few of your brothers at GA and they were good guys that took fraternity education and ideals very seriously and really impressed me. I sat next to one of your brothers at GA, I cannot remember his name but we talked awhile about our chapters history and so forth. We had a lot in common, all Lambda Chi Alpha chapters should see their common traits more than their differences.
One thing I have noticed when I visit other Lambda Chi Alpha chapters is hazing is usually not a part of them. I really do not think it is fair to give southern chapters, especially SEC schools a reputation for hazing because that is called a stereotype. I have been to almost 1/2 the chapters we have in the SEC and they are solid chapters that do not haze. LSU got in trouble last year for some misbehavior but they are really straightening things out overthere after meeting a few of their brothers at GA and talking to their advisor.
Overall, hazing when it occurs happens all over the country, not just the South, the area of the country that gets blamed for most of the countries problems, a place that is considered backwards and old school. All I can say is most of the chapters I have visited in THE SOUTH show great brotherhood, a passion for the traditions, principles and ideals for Lambda Chi Alpha and respect for our fraternity as a whole.

IN ZAX,

Ryan Daley
High Beta
University of Tenn. Knoxville
Epsilon Omicron Zeta EO 2039

I agree that the south gets blamed for alot of the problems, but hazing is endemic to the greek system at UF, and at other southern schools. Even some of the great LCA chapters here in the south have problems with it, they just seem to hide it better. We've never felt like what we were doing was hazing, or wrong in any way, and that is why we never went through the trouble of hiding it. We're currently working to restructure our fraternity education program, so any one with a good idea how to run fraternity ed. can PM me with ideas.

EM, known to me as the Hulk!:)

Sounds like UF is getting it on the straight and narrow. Sounds like there was a problem that I do not understand or like. PM me or let me know when I can call Ya!

Do a Road Trip to some others walk in with a big scowl on Face and Say This is the way it will be and that aint a song title!

Remember, I have Known Ya for a while, you are getting Maturer but not smaller. Still remember the crick in my neck from talking with you from the third stair at the Holliday Inn in Melbourne!!:D


Kidding aside, We as LXA must hold ourselves to a Higher Standard as We are Not the oldest, but the Best.

We may screw up, but that is not the Fault of LXA, that is our fault!:(

Damn, M T, You might make a Great ELC in the near future. Who is going to say No to you!:cool: :D

an outsider's input
 

Honorary memberships are conferred on special people. And
you all know Harry S Truman loved LXA. There are invaluable
friends of your Fraternity who can help especially where you
have no alums...nuf sed.
Hazing for brotherhood is like fornicating for chastity. Why beat
the hell out of a neophyte and the next day hug him as a brother?
Your thread is informative, educational, and of good thought.
May all your Zetas have the best year ever...from a TKE friend,
and ... aside from spelling, Tom Earp has some great ideas!

Hi Erik, nice to hear from you!

As someone who was an associate member before Lambda Chi Alpha technically had Associate Members (January 1972 as opposed to August 1972), I can say we were not hazed even then.

If it ever turned out my chapter was doing anything remotely considered to be hazing, I'd be the first one to recommend cleaning house and even pulling the charter if need be.

I've been in this game too long to let a few masochistic rednecks undo everything.

Jono

Erik I would like to echo Jonos thanks to you.

For those that dont know, Eric Conard and I go back to the inception of BX the Local that became LX Z in 1966.

I also agree with Jono about hazing at my Chapter. I would rip and roar and do the same as He suggested. He and I know each other very well also.

Now back to the subject of IHQ and Zetas.

First off, the Rules and Regulations are written down for all Zetas to read and follow. These are in Officers Manuals that also include Houseing Corporations.

Therefore, I place before you as Brothers the idea, that it is not up to International to patrol, but to work with Zetas.

If there is a problem it should be taken care of first by the Active Zeta, not to depend on International to make visits and be the Bad Guys.

EM1843, if it is as you said about Kip Zurcher and what He said, then He was wrong. But not having been there and knowing anything but what you reported, it is hard to make a sure fire decision. If is an If.

When We as Active Members realize this, then each Zeta will be a better Zeta.

We should also remember, "HAZING" is verboten, a NO NO! Period. It has been continusally spelled out.

I along with many GC Alums and Brothers if we find out about this type of thing will blow a very big whistle.

Take care of your own, dont blame IHQ if the Shit Hists The Fan.

No one told the Zeta to do it.

My major dissapointments have been:

1. Alfred, in NY, not backing them up when they did no wrong.

2. ASU several years after the fact when they were rebounding.

3. U. Alaska, where they are not getting the backing because of distance.

4. NC A & T, a Historically Black College where it was decided to try a great experiment of placing a "Supposedly" White Fraternity there.

I admired LXA for being the first for doing this and was very proud. But when I found out that IHQ was upset that they were given a year extension, then I was upset because it did not seem to be working.:(

I have been working with Members that I met at GA and am doing what I can to help them get along.

Two of those members are crmdogge and aggielxa of GC.

I for one am proud of the Staff of IHQ and what they are trying to do. For the Majority, We have More Staf than most other Greek Organizations.

Just check out their web sites like I do. Some are so thin that you wonder how in the world they stay open!

So, dont blame IHQ for the woes, Remember, Home is where the heart is, take care of yourselves first, keep Risk Management Insurance down. It starts with you first.

ah...

SECOND!

I agree with some earlier posts regarding HQ. They really need to get their shit together. We were put on Stage 3 probation back at the end of Fall 2002...and we finished ALL of our terms and conditions...doubled our chapter size...and everything....turned in everything...never been in debt...etc etc...everything is done...sent in. Our terms were done and completed LAST DECEMBER...and we're still paying Stage 3 insurance. Why? Because some how...hq "misplaced" our paperwork. The guys in the chapter are pretty pissed off to say the least. We have been paying 157 per man for insurance when we could be paying 90 bucks per man. 95% of the guys that were around when the incident occured back in fall 2002 arent here anymore...so we're basically paying for our older guys mistakes...and because HQ cant keep their stuff together.

IF someone from HQ reads this...PLEASE TAKE DELTA NU ZETA (CAL RIVERSIDE) OFF OF STAGE 3 PROBATION. We sent in all of our shit and are tired of paying high insurance and worrying about you losing our stuff.

LambdaChiUCR@hotmail.com

if you have any questions please e mail...

Call 714-624-2092 (High Alpha)

We would really like to start getting our moneys worth...

Thanks,
The Brothers of Lambda Chi at Riverside

Hey Aphro,
Same thing happened to us. Bunch of guys YEARS ago (before 99% of us were even brothers during the time) screwed up and we were put on probation. Years after we fulfilled the requirement and the offending parties were gone, we were STILL on probabtion, despite being an almost 100% new house. Doesn't make much since to me.

My biggest complaint with HQ would be the legal aspect. Everything is very confusing to a college student, most stuff is very vague and unclear. I am very concerned that if something, anything, goes wrong, LXA can be sued very easily. I myself have found HUGE loopholes in our policies which can make us liable. I really think they need to get a GOOD legal team together, re-draft all our policies to meat each state law, and send them out.

Well here is an update from me. During all this stuff, we are bring required to rewrite our fraternity ed policies, which we have no problem with. How ever Kipp and our ELC both said they had some great fraternity ed and big brother packets they would send to us. It's been almost 3 weeks and we still have not gotten anything from them. We are working with our High Pi and our Factulty Advisor, Grand High Phi Doc Smith, but it's difficult to come up with new ideas having only been through one system. This is what bothers me most, when INT offers help and then doesn't follow through...

Hey, Riverside guys...FWIW, I'm going to attend a Chicago-area LCA reception this evening. We'll have at least 1-2 IHQ folks there. I've printed your comments out & will personally hand the material to whomever attends from Indy.

ZAX,
BF

wow...now thats brotherhood. Thanks man we really appreciate it.

One favor: Just take out all the "shit"...haha...thanks.

Yup, with my experiences, IHQ has dropped the ball many times.

I think the problem may be that we hire too many times within the fraternity. No disrespect to anyone on the executive board or anything, but I just checked out the resume of Kip Zurcher, Joe Klimek and a few others, and with the exception of Mark Bauer, they really do not have the background to be put in charge of our national fraternity.

Joe Klimek was a computer engineer, why is he involved in property management and accounting? Not only are there 50 different laws for 50 different states, but also 100's of local housing regulations for housing and property. Does he have the legal background for that? What real estate background does he have? I met Joe, he's a great guy, and I know alot of you agree. But we really should get a professional property manager who has managed properties in various states. LCAP was already sued and lost before because they tried to enforce an illegal contract. An experienced property manager could have realized the problems with the contract and could have fixed it, ending alot of grief and problems.

Kip Zurcher is also a great guy, I met him at my chapter house. But a degree in mathematics applied to chemistry? We need a business manager.

Chris Sternhagen with a major in electrical engineering as Real Estate Manager? When has he ever managed real estate? Did he take some real estate courses maybe? What happens if there was ever a bad-title to a LCAP property, or if a city or town decided to do a partial land taking? Could he defend LCAP?

I never really realized this until today when I started to look at it.

Obviously people in the fraternity should be given preference, but only if they are qualified.

I think they would all be great ELC's, maybe recruiters, chapter advisors, or some other positions. But why aren't we hiring professional, experienced property managers, COO's, real accountants? People who have experience with large corporations and non-profits.

Mark Bauer should be the property manager or COO of the general fraternity. He has a law degree and the most experience.

For these management positions, we need to stop limiting ourselves to those just in our fraternity and get real professionals. I think it would be fantastic and great if we could somehow use those within the fraternity in positions they are experienced in.

But the reality of the situation is that we need to get more experienced people, even if it means a few extra bucks in dues. It would be worth it.

-OK, now go ahead and bash me and my post away

*ducks for cover*

GammaZeta, I dont think anyone is planning on bashing you so come up for air.:)

Just remember one thing, just because someone does not have a certain back ground does not mean that they cannot do a job.

I met most of the Grand High Zeta, a lot of the Staff and ELCs at G A!

They do what I consider an outstanding job in the face of overwhelming things that are thrown at them.

Yes, We as LX Z had problems paying Risk Management Insurance as they had Us Listed in Penn., not Kansas.

It took 3 threes years to get it worked out and IHQ. owed us money.:o

Raise the dues, that is another total ball of wax not to get into.

I found all of the people that I Met At G A, to be totally dedicated People to LXA. Yes, there have been people who were from other GLOs on staff and were chosen for their expertise not because they were of LXA.

I applied for the position of COO with only love of LXA and not expertise other than owning two businesses.

To be honest, Kip, Joe, John and many others are working their butts off to get things done. When I contact them, I get upset that I do not get an Immediate reply, but, I am 1 in a # of 0ver 1/2 Mil. Brothers and an Alum at that.

Does it upset me that I dont get My C & C when others have them, yes it does as I want to get the latest news of My Fraternity. But, I will wait and saver it when I get it and reread many times.

I wont bash you as a Brother, but if you are in the area of Gammas old Chapter, get over and work with them to get The Zeta back.

That should be the key focus of your thoughts. It is nice to see what your experiences are, but maybe move and and become a Re-Builder.

Get Gamma Zeta, and all of your Brothers back on Campus!


Check other National Web Sites and see what they do not have in the way we do.:cool:

I agree. Thats probably the reason why paperwork gets "mishandled" or "misplaced" because they hire people that arent qualified to do the job. For example, we gave our Stage 3 probation work AGAIN to our ELC, Tim R(forgot his last name), and it never got turned in. We tried calling him...and guess what? We cant get a hold of him. See its stuff like that gets to me and makes me question wether being in a HUGE fraternity is worth it.

Something needs to be done. I wouldnt mind if paper work is getting lost for associations/initiations, etc...ok i can deal with that...but not when im paying for it.

The way I see it..HQ OWES me money for all the extra insurance money I have been paying. haha its ridiculous...thats like fining someone for a crime..and then when they are done paying the fine...you say..."oh wait..we lost your paperwork...you have to pay all over again." It just doesnt make sense.

Agree whole heartedly with that as had the same thing happen with 2 ELCs. Drve for 2 1/2 hours to meet with one, one morning then turned around and drove back. He had one more stop and He turned in final papers to move on to other things. Next ELC did the same thing. It took an Alum to get straightend out.:mad:

But, if there is a problem, dont be afraid to contact someone at IHQ and report what si going on and bitch like hell. It cost the Zeta Money that could be going some where else for The Zeta To Do Things!

Youre F-ing kidding me, right?
 

I knew it was possible for people to talk out their A$$, but I never knew people could type out their A$$....

I appreciate the passion that everyone has for the fraternity, but to some of the undergrads posting on here, ya'll need a HELLA reality check.

FIRST, you all need to understand that LIFE IS NOT FAIR. Its not. I didnt set up the world, I just operate in it. As soon as ya leave college, youre going to understand that the world is ANYTHING but fair. SO dotn expect that because one Zeta gets away with something, so should yours. Theres so many more factors that go into it, one of which is money. If youre a big chapter and bringing in lots of cash to HQ they're gonna be more lenaiant on ya. (BTW, its 2004, can we PLEASE quit calling it 'nationals'? People want credibility and they cant be bothered to use the proper terminology thats been around since the 40's. People love the fraternity, but dont respect it enough to use the right terms, but thats another thread.)

In 1995 I saw an undergrad of UT -Austin tell Bob Lundon that they didnt run an AM program, they ran a pledge program, and what was he gonna do about it? Ya know what, Bob Backed down. Why? Cause Alpha-Mu alumni are in the top 3 of donors to HQ. Yeah, its not right, but its just the way the world works. Youre adults, you have 2 choices: understand the reality of it, or cry and whine about it...and still have nothing change and have other adults not take you seriously because you 'just dont get it yet' that the world works that way. Your choice.

Secondly, I'd prefer that all fraternity staff hve terminal degrees in the field that they work in, but COME ON! You OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING of the reality of the situation. PLEASE, do some investigating of the reality of the business world, especially the non-profit world before you get all wound up about stuff. Ya know why we dont have someone with an MBA in this position, or a doctorate in that position?

BECAUSE WE CANT AFFORD IT.

Ya'll need to understand a few things. Staff at HQ dosent make crap for pay. They dont do what they do for money, 'cause its not there. They do it becasue they love the fraternity. I am STUNNED that some people are FOOLISH enough to believe that its simply a 'hiring preference'. Dear god. If it was that simple.

As Earp mentioned, ya dont need a degree in somethign to do the job. A BA isnt anything anymore but a prereq. Look at all your graduated friends. How many of them are actually using their degree? My friends and brothers guess is about 50%.

We get the people who are willing to do it for that little compensation. If we were going after the education and experience we ideally wanted, we'd have to expect to pay 35-40% more. You gonna pony that cash up?

We cant afford to pay that, because we almost went bankrupt a few years back. (I am looking at the financials right now) From 98 to 03 Tom Helmbock was spending approx 1.7 MILLION more a year than what we were bringing in. Thats one of the reasons why hes not around anymore. Being one of the youngest international big fraternities, we dont have the cash reserves that the Sigma Chi's and the SAE's have. Were almost 100 years old, but were still the new kids on the block.

The reason Helmbock is gone is because the GHZ is kick ass and they had enough of his nonsense. Ted Grosnickle (Grand High Alpha) is an industry leader in non-profit management, and it was under his leadership that they cut costs, eliminated Helmbock and SAVED OUR SHIP. We all owe them a debt we can never repay. You new people owe them your letters. And they dont get paid....

The other reason we dont have the money is because you undergrads arent getting off your asses and recruiting. When I was an undergraduate in FY 1996, we recruited 4,356 new members. In FY 04, ya'll only recruited 3,723 new members. Might not seem like a lot, but thats the primary source of revenue for HQ. Thats 600 people, but not just semesterly dues, but initiation and association fees. You also consider the matriculation over 4 years for those 600 individuals, thats a lot of cash. So it works out like this: Ya want better qualified staff at HQ? Get off your ass and go recruit.

Last time I checked, ELC's took home about 10K a year in cash. While their meals and lodging are taken care of and figured into their benefits package, how many of us could live on 10K a year?

Could you?

I am friends with people on staff and they bust ass for little cash. I'd never work there. I make more in my own line of business. So while its OK to hold them accountable, we need to be grateful for the job they do for the love of the fraternity.

I have a solution: Have Initiation fees jump to $350 per person, association fees jump to $200 and semesterly dues go to about $200 a person. Then we could have the pie in the sky and everything we ever dreamed of!

You wanna pay for that? The undergrads I advise dont. So be realistic, ya get what ya pay for. And we could pay for more if we just recruited.

Love how some people who've been in the org about 6 minutes are somehow experts on Lambda Chi's organizational management. I've been in 12 years and still have a hella lot to learn. WE ALL DO.

In ZAX,
lifesaver
'another opinionated High Pi...'

PS: Ya'll sound like a damned sorority instead of a fraternity.

Well said lifesaver