What would you do?
 

Let's say you and the love of your life were scheduled to marry this year, and you'd already booked Rev. Jesse Jackson to preside over the nuptials, long before the scandal was revealed to you and to the rest of the public.

In light of what he did, and how it violates everything a marriage stands for, would you still have him perform the ceremony and marry you?

Food for thought.

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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE

[This message has been edited by the411 (edited February 08, 2001).]

Oh, no ma'am! He would not be allowed to perform my ceremony!

I want my wedding day to be peaceful. No controversy allowed!

There is no way!! I will be sure that all people included in my wedding party respect the institution of marriage. That to me is like having a maid of honor or best man that cheats on their spouse or one that is cheating with someone else's spouse. How can I expect that person to appreciate and enjoy what I will be embarking upon when they don't even take it seriously. The people in your wedding party should be people you respect and who respect your decision to enter into marriage.

[This message has been edited by DST Love (edited February 08, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by DST Love (edited February 08, 2001).]

Hello all...

I don't know how I would react. For the simple fact that we all FALL SHORT! I guess I would know how to react, I would let him perform my ceremony. Especially if it was found out at the LAST minute.

What's the difference between Jesse performing a ceremony and ANY OTHER CLERGY WHO HAS COMMITTED A SIN? NOTHING!These folks are performing ceremonies EVERY WEEKEND! There are many pastors, preachers, ministers, priests, elders, etc. who have done what Jesse or any other has done OR WORSE. Maybe it was rumored or was actually true.

If someone does not want to attend my wedding for that simple reason, oh well. As long as my fiance is there and my mother, sister, brother-n-law, nieces, and nephew are there...BUMP THE REST! lol And, as long as Jesse or whoever it may be has held himself accountable to the MAN upstairs AND has taken care of his business with HIM, then who am I or anyone else to judge?
By the way, folks will be all up in that place, JUST TO SEE! (ya'll know how we are!)

Flipping the script, what if Jesse (before this all came out) or any clergy member refused to perform your ceremony because you were NOT a virgin, had child(ren) out of wedlock, shacked (living together), divorced etc?

...SAME SCRIPT DIFFERENT CAST! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

Mind you, I do not agree with what he did, but he is HUMAN and so are WE! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

That's just my OPINION! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

AKA2D has a point!

Let's also remember that Jesse don't come cheap! You and your fiance (or your parents) probably had to front a pretty penny (non-refundable) just to book him. Would that change anything for those of you who say "NO WAY!" to having him perform your ceremony?

I'm just havin' fun here...

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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE

[This message has been edited by the411 (edited February 08, 2001).]

[quote]Originally posted by DoggyStyle82:
[b]I am not/do not use it as an excuse. I cannot judge ANYONE, the ONLY perfect person around these parts is the MAN upstairs....

Anyway, there are many clergy members out there whose indiscretions, whatever they were, were exposed and are still leading their flocks...SO, THESE MEMBERS KNOW!

I agree, 411 it is something to ponder, when I think that Jesse's appearance cost like $125,000 or so...after paying that anount of $$$, you think I'm gonna get someone else, YOU MUST BE OUT OF YO DAYUM MIND! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

I would go ahead with the ceremony with Rev. Jackson presiding over it. Who are we? We don't have a heaven or a hell to put this man in and the only person that he has to answer to is God and I know that he will forgive his sins. It has nothing to do with him not respecting the institution of marriage it could be other factors. And if everyone did a "screening" of ALL Rev's. that of course preside over marriages you would come across some that have not been faithful to their wives. We are all human and all fall short of the glory of God. That's why he forgives our sins. AND NO ONE SIN IN PARTICULAR IS BIGGER THAN THE OTHER! We need to pray for this family and understand that although he is a Rev. he is still human and not perfect. He is not first person to commit adultery and he will not be the last.


ASU Diva2003

Ladies, the point is not whether we have a heaven or hell for Jesse or even judging him. That is not the point. The point is whether or not you would accept the SACRAMENTS of Marriage and have your HOLY UNION officiated, presided over, and sanctified by someone who recently violated all of the vows that he is asking you to swear to under the authority of GOD. If you are amenable to this, this means that you have NO STANDARDS and any STANDARDS that you purport to have are meaningless because you have proven that expediency and moral relativity are your masters. The fact that other people sinned, may have sinned, or will sin is immaterial when dealing with the merits of a single case. Again, I say, the not judging thing is a cop-out for jaded people who refuse to hold themselves and others to a standard of behavior for fear of being a hippocrate and actually having to live up to concrete (non-malleable) values. Do we have to wait until the day at the Pearly Gates to hold someone accountable for their behavior? I say all this as a fully acknowledged sinner and imperfect Christian, but I don't excuse my sins, nor anyone elses, especially because others have done it (that is the lamest of all).

You do realize the implications of your thought process? Its not about being perfect. It has to do with the propriety of him doing a job in which he violated a Cardinal Precept. Would you let a thief be your investment counselor?. Would you let an obese person teach you aerobics?. Would you take contraceptive advice from a teenage mother? Why take wedding vows from an adulterer, non-safe sex having, father of an out of wedlock child. If you can't judge by someone's pattern of behavior in the job that they are called to do, why care at all. I'm not judging Jesse the Man, that is God's domain, I'm judging Jesse the Reverend. If you don't see the fallacy in that thinking then there is nothing else to say.

Why am I just totally diggin' you, DoggyStyle82? Thank you. Both of your points were wonderful. I like you am sick of people saying everyone makes mistakes. That's a given. But maybe if we all start holding each other accountable, we'd feel more ashamed and less likely to repeat those so-called mistakes, or as I call them choices.

Like I posted earlier and like you said DoggyStyle82, this is not about judging someone, this is about that paticular situation. And there is no way in hell I would let a minister who laughs at the sanctity of marriage and does not take the vows with God seriously preside over my marriage vows. What type of beginning is that for me and my husband?! If a minister did not want to marry two people because they are not virgins. Then that is his right. If he believes that being virgins is the only way to start off a good marriage, then he should not compromise his beliefs. Just the same, I would be compromising my beleifs, if I and my husband to be felt that cheating is wrong (which I hope most couples do beleive) but yet we're letting some man who doesn't think that it's wrong provide us with those special vows that we say to each other and plan to hold dear in our hearts. That's just way to hypocrital to me.

C'mon people, stop taking the easy way out with these we're only human, everyone makes mistakes, and who are we to judge. Yeah, that's true to an extent but if we are all spiritual people then how can you stand by and condone someone's actions that greatly conflict with your own beliefs. Again, just the same that if someone thinks something I'm doing or saying goes against their beliefs then I would expect them to distance themselves from me. You don't have to chastize or criticize but you certainly don't have to condone it either. Condoning is not just saying you agree or doing the same actions, it is also when you stand by quietly and accept what is before you without excusing yourself from that situation.

[This message has been edited by DST Love (edited February 09, 2001).]

Can I say again that I just keep rereading your posts, DoggyStyle82, and I cannot believe how much that sounds like something I would say. And to add, you're so right when you say that people try to use that judging thing because they are afraid to be hypocrites or face their own demons. But I welcome those opportunities because I feel it makes me take a nice long look at myself. That to me is the only way you continue to grow as a person, get to know yourself better, and ensure that you, yourself, are keeping in line with your spirituality and values.

Well, since I posed the question, I should answer it, right?

There is NO way on earth I'd let a person perform my ceremony, participate in my ceremony, or coordinate my ceremony who does not live by or or has not upheld his/her own marriage vows. Yes, Jesse is human, and therefore imperfect and prone to mistakes, but that doesn't justify his actions. Yes we can (and perhaps we should) forgive him and not condemn him, but the fact remains-- HIS ACTIONS WERE WRONG. As Christians, we have to first KNOW right from wrong, and THEN we face the challenge of making the decision to do one or the other. Jesse clearly chose wrong over right--WHY he did it isn't the issue. The question was: Should he still perform a ceremony of this nature, given his WRONG-doing? And, as much as we love him, I think the answer has to be "No."

I greatly admire the man for his many wonderful, history-making achievements, and for his PERSEVERANCE and steadfast commitment to civil rights, equality, and UPLIFT for blacks, but I do believe that as a teacher of God's Word, he has a moral obligation to set an example of riteousness-- an obligation he failed to fulfill because of his infidelity.

I'm not doubting that his actions have been an eye-opening, life-altering, and humbling experience that may even pull him closer to Christ-- sometimes we need to mess up in order to appreciate God's love, forgiveness, and unchanging hand, AND to understand the value, importance, and CHALLENGES involved in the maintenance of a good marriage.

But for him (or any other past/present "cheat") to officiate in a marriage ceremony would send a message that neither I nor my husband-to-be fully understand, accept, or acknowledge the importance of the vows we are about to recite. If we can see nothing wrong with it (and if we're more concerned with getting our "money's worth" and/or having a famous person perform our ceremony), then we clearly don't have our s#%@ together and don't have any business getting married anyway!

And I'm out!


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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE



[This message has been edited by the411 (edited February 09, 2001).]

Soror AKA2D'91, I agree with your posts. None of us know what people do behind closed doors. The pastor marrying you in Jesse's place could be doing any and everything behind closed doors that you know nothing about. And later for the "if I don't know then what difference would it make?" because it is still the same principle. You don't KNOW how people in your wedding party regard the sacraments of marriage. All we know is what we see and what we are told. Unless you are a part of it, YOU DON'T KNOW. You don't really know if the maid of honor or best man is cheating on her/his spouse. What it all boils down to is FAITH and TRUST. You trust that you KNOW the people in your wedding party, and that they respect the institution of marriage. You have FAITH that the minister who is marrying you respects the institution of marriage. What it sounds like to me, you don't have FAITH that God can do what He said he could, and that is cleanse us of our sins. IF Jesse has repented, he has been washed FREE of his sin. God has let it go, why are we still holding on?????

As far as who we take advice from, just because we don't do something does not mean we don't know how. Would I take contraceptive advice from a teenage mother? Probably--she has probably learned the MOST from her mistake. My mother always told me that sometimes you have to learn from other people's mistakes, because you won't live long enough to make them all on your own. Who are we to discount people based on their experiences and mistakes??? Would you let a theif be your investment counselor? This type of mentality means that we don't believe in rehabilitation. When you go to an investment banker, do you have her/him give you their criminal background? YOU DON'T KNOW. My pastor is a reformed drug addict (Carla, am I right?). He used to follow Satan for a living. And now, he is leading souls to Christ. Should we all just get up and walk out of church because of his past experiences? Because that is exactly what we are doing to Jesse, persecuting him for his mistakes and past experiences.

Holding people accountable for their actions and passing judgement are two totally different things. Regardless of if your are judging Jesse the Man or Jesse the Reverend, the fact of the matter is, you are still passing judgement. Period. And GOD said, judge not lest ye be judged. Period. I can agree with you in saying that this is a single case. That being true, you have to hold Jesse accountable based on his position. Clarification: At our jobs, we are held accountable based on our responsiblities as outlined in the employee handbook. How we are reprimanded is also outlined in the employee handbook. So, in Jesse's case, in holding Jesse the Reverend accountable, we must do so by The Word. It is The Word that dictates to us that we should not pass judgement. Refusing to pass judgement is NOT a cop-out, it is OBEYING CHRIST. So if obeying Christ is a cop-out, then I'm copping out everyday.

Not excusing your sins nor anyone elses. Is that the same thing as not forgiving? "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us." God won't cleanse us of our sins if we don't forgive other people for their sins.

Just my .08

Preach on, preach on!! It's funny how people put money before morality. No wonder this world is in total chaos. No one has any convictions or principles by which they stand.

Anywho, in rereading the posts I saw something else to respond to. Posted by ASU Diva2003, "And if everyone did a "screening" of ALL Rev's. that of course preside over marriages you would come across some that have not been faithful to their wives". No you can't screen every reverend or every person that might be in your wedding. But that's a moot point. I can't help or control that which I do not know. But that is the point. I do know that Jesse Jackson disrepected his own vows with his wife and God so I CAN make the decision to not let him preside over my wedding.

Exactly! It's true that anyone could have done or be doing the same thing, but if I don't KNOW that, then I can't act on it. If I DID know it, they'd be out the door, for sure! How could you KNOW and still have the person do the ceremony?
Personally, I wouldn't even want such a person in my wedding party, but that's a different topic altogether. Right now, I'm focusing on the person who presides over the nuptials.

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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE

Jesse's sins are not for me to forgive. They are for God to forgive. I have heard several ministers speak about that you can forgive and forget but that still does not mean that you continue to keep those people in your presence.

I'm not telling people how they are supposed to interpret the Bible because I am not in a position to do so. But I do feel that people misinterpet the whole judging others things. If we all call ourselves spiritual regardless of which religion, how can we stand by constantly and condone those actions that directly conflict with what you are trying to uphold. Judging to me is when you hold yourself in a higher regard than another. That is wrong. However holding someone responsible for their own actions is not in any way judging.

We all are going to make decisions that are not the best for our lives. But that is what life is. Risks, choices, decisions. That is why you must be very careful and try to be spirit led when doing anything. I cannot be mad if I have constatnly stolen things from my family and friends and then one day say I am sorry and have changed and expect them to trust that I will never steal from them again. Each person has to live with the consequences of their actions. Every person has at least some power to help determine how others will peceive them. If you want to be known as a respectable person, then you'll act in a respectable manner. If you want to be know as a liar, then you'll tell blatant lies that people know not to be true. If you want to be the town whore, then you'll stand on a downtown corner where everyone can see you waiting for men to come pick you up. All I'm saying is we must always be mindful of our actions and the choices we make as others will perceive us based on them.

Should you live your life for others? Not completely. But God did put billions of us here together. We're not each here alone. I believe he wants us to learn not only from Him but also from each other. How we live our lives and conduct ourselves may affect people more than we know.

[This message has been edited by DST Love (edited February 09, 2001).]

DST LOVE and 411: Finally, someone who understands the difference. I don't believe that any of us are moralizing, least of all me. Jesse would be welcome at my reception though. He can join the Bruhs when we party hop to Atomic Dog. You know, "a Dawg that chases tail will be a busy dawg, a horny dawg....."

[This message has been edited by DoggyStyle82 (edited February 09, 2001).]

Hola ladies of DST.

No, Jesse would not be presiding over my nuptials, for the reasons previously stated by Doggystyle82 (On my goodness, we agree), DST Love and the411. I wonder if people would be so liberal in their thinking if Rev. Jesse Jackson was involved in sexual misconduct with a minor instead of adultery. Does the crime make a difference?

PS. Doggystyle82, stop deleting your posts. That is so aggravating! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited February 09, 2001).]

Hi everyone!
I'm new to the site.

I have read over the previous posts and I gave the question a lot of consideration.

Honestly, my family and friends would not care how much I paid to have the Good Rev. preside over the nuptials http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif, they would still clown me and my fiance for considering prestige over principle.

I understand that none of us are perfect and that no one has the right to judge, we *know* that Rev. Jackson intentionally stepped out of his marriage and to me, he would have no business standing before me and my loved ones with "the power *vested* in him pronouncing us husband and wife."

Just my opinion, y'all.

My opinion... I would still allow the Rev. to perform my wedding. The reason is first, we do not have the right to judge anyone, even if we know what was done by the Rev. was morally and biblically wrong. Secondly, I follow in the footsteps and the word of the Lord. Not another human being. The Rev.'s actions are not going to rub off on me simply because he would be performing my wedding ceremony. And I would definitely not worry about who disapproves of my decision. It would be my marriage anyway. If they don't like it, they have the choice not to attend my wedding. As long as I am strong in MY beliefs and faith, nothing else matter.

Would you stop going to the church of your choice just because there are MANY hypocrits that worship in the same church as you? Probably not. We all know that in every church, there are deacons, ushers, ministers, worshippers, etc... who lack morals. If someone's actions decided what I wanted to do in my life, I would probably never get anywhere.

This is simply my opinion.

To me, there is a HUGE difference between WORSHIPPING with sinners like myself and being LEAD and INSTRUCTED by a man who does not take both his ministry and marriage vows with the Lord seriously. I say instructed because that is what the minister who presides over marriage vows does. I cannot imagine him saying to me and my husband-to-be, "Do you promise to forsake all others?" I'd have to say to him, "Did you?"

Actually, I wouldn't attend a church in which I KNEW there were "MANY hypocrits" that worship there, but that's just me. Again, this question raises the difference between KNOWING and NOT KNOWING; and, it is specifically focused on the person who presides over the ceremony and what his/her role symbolizes. So, I totally agree with DST Love! Jesse's role is to teach and to lead by example, so it DOES make a huge difference. In many churches, pastors are also pre-wedding counselors who determine if the couple is ready. Like the wedding party, the pastor's willingness to marry a couple is a show of his support of the union. How can Jesse determine my readiness, when he and his wife could use a few counseling sessions themselves? It's like that gospel song says: "Sweep around your own front door" I can't help you if I don't have myself together.

I'm with you, DoggyStyle-- Jesse can come to the wedding, and he can have a slice of my Delta cake (red velvet, of course), but he couldn't be the one who read our vows to us.

As far as this prestige thing goes, why would I even let a person preside over my nuptials if I and my fiance didn't already have a personal relationship with him? But hey-- that's just me.


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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE