Vice Presidential Debates
 

Anyone going to be watching tonight? I dont think these debates get the ratings of the Presidential debates ....
Being that Mr. Edwards is a trial attorney, I believe he will win on style, but I think Cheney will win on substance.

Dem vp hopeful John Edwards cut to the chase last night on ABCNEWS NIGHTLINE:

ABC'S BOB WOODRUFF: "He has avoided the kind of negative attacks that can make national news, although recently, he has stepped up his rhetoric."

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC) (clip of a speech): "I'd say if you live in the United States of America and you vote for George Bush, you've lost your mind."

WOODRUFF: "There's been criticism that you have been too soft."

EDWARDS: "Do I seem soft to you?"

END
Tue Oct 05 2004 08:57:47 ET

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash2.htm

This should be an interesting debate....

Cheney isn't hugely charismatic, but he does have a great sense of humor. I enjoy his public speaches and really like his use of humor. Edwards seems young and fairly callow in the political arena. However, I think Edwards will win in the "style" area because of his youth and acting skills.

People thought Kerry won the first debate due to the fact that he "looked" Presidential. Forget about the fact that the man has no concept of what "Bilateral" means.

Very true...in debates people focus on things like facial expressions, and mispronunciation of words etc. instead of substance.

That's what happened in the Nixon-Kennedy debates. Kennedy had just come back from Florida, and was rested and tanned. Nixon was his usual pale, dreary self...made worse by a recent bout of the flu.

Those who heard the radio debate thought for sure Nixon had won. Those who saw it on TV, however, said Kennedy had won.

Actually, I saw the Nixon/Kennedy debates. Kennedy did look relaxed and in charge, but the real problem for Nixon (at least from a visual perspective) was that he was sweating profusely above his upper lip. He "looked" as if he was uncomfortable with his own answers.

Actually, he looked dishonest to me, but I was about 15 or 16 years old then for whatever that's worth. I suppose the fact that he was dishonest might color that memory in retrospect.

Anyway, I can remember those TV pictures of that debate vividly.

I think this debate could be interesting... more interesting than the Bush/Kerry one. Halliburton questions could come up, so could thoughts about gay marriage (Cheney's daughter is a lesbian).

Does anybody know if they have the same rules as the other night? I want to see these two ask each other questions!

Dee

Cheney has pretty much been percieved as the administrations hatchet man. (Not a criticism, many VP's/running mates are)

It will be interesting to see if he ratains that role or lightens up some -- and whether Edwards will continue as the smiling optomist.

The only thing I've heard about rules is that the Bush folks insisted that the two be seated behind desks, so that Edwards can't walk around and do his trial lawyer thing -- a role that the VP is not as comfortable in.

I think they will just argue about Halburton the most of the time.

yep you're probably right

If there was a pulitizer for understatement of the year, you would win.

Anyway, on the serious topic:
Does anybody know the rules of tonights drinking game, I mean debate?

If they do that, Edwards will come off as a petty demagogue.

Can't be any worse than Bush calling Kerry a flip flopper the whole debate. People gotten so used to the flip flopper thing people don't care as much anymore. I bet next debate the flip flopper thing will stop.

I'm watching it now, and I hate to admit it but he came off like that early on in this debate, minutes before he even had a chance to mention Halliburton. I think he's singlehandedly undoing any lead Kerry might've gained as a result of the Presidential debates last week.

Is it just me? I think that this is pretty boring compared to the Presidential debate. *yawn*

It's boring because there isn't anyone to really make fun of. It's between Uncle Scary and Jack Smiley - about as interesting as watching paint dry.

Still, I expected more from someone who made a career of handing doctors their a**es on plates.

It got a little better toward the end.

Personally, I enjoyed the debates and thought the candidates were well-matched. I thought both candidates did a better job of actually answering the questions presented them than either of the presidential candidates (though Edwards fumbled on that one a few times). I thought Cheney came off as much better prepped and knowledgable than Bush. Still, I think Edwards put forward a great defense.

My heart says it was an Edwards win, but really I think it was a draw.

Anyway, kudos to both of the candidates.

Cheney was MUCH better than I thought he would be. Over all I thought both were well prepared and well spoken, although I thought Edwards appeared slightly better briefed.

I think Edwards got off topic a little too far on occassion. It was impressive that Cheney knew when to just shut up -- you don't see that often in a politician.

However, while it was very close, I thought Edwards won by a nose. The "instant" polls agree -- but I'll be interested to see what they say after people have time for a little reflection.

It was a great moment on both parts when Edwards was gracious about Cheney's lesbian daughter and the later simply said thank you. Impressive.

Over all a much better show than I expected.

I honestly fell asleep in front of my TV. But I was tired and kinda sick to begin with.

I'll give it to Cheney for being more prepared to handle backlash better than his running mate. But then again I only caught a few minutes. I was a little squemish because Edwards came off as a whiney child in the beginning. Perhaps it got better in the end. I sure hope so.

The oddest thing I heard was Cheney saying he didn't aspire to be President and that made him a good Vice President. I have heard him say before that he does not want to be President. Yet, if something happens to Bush, he IS President. I don't think he should continually point out that he doesn't want to be President.

The "we have a plan for that" from Edwards was getting old. I think it's intentional, as a "theme" from the campaign, but I found it annoying. I don't want to hear "we have a plan", I want to hear the plan only. Is it meant to be a modification of "I have a dream"?

I think both were better at avoiding questions that they didn't want to highlight. I'd say it was a pretty even match as far as their debating skills. I still agree with more of what Edwards said.

Dee

ABC polls say Cheney wins
 

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/polit...ll_041006.html

Oct. 6, 2004— Dick Cheney prevailed in the vice presidential debate with help from a more Republican audience — and more support from his ticket's side than John Edwards got from his. Among registered voters who watched the debate, 43 percent said Cheney won, 35 percent called Edwards the winner and 19 percent called it a tie. One factor is that more Republicans tuned in — 38 percent of viewers were Republicans, 31 percent Democrats, the rest independents.

cBS says Edwards won
 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in641817.shtml

A CBS News poll of 178 uncommitted voters found that 41 percent said Edwards won the debate, versus 28 percent who said Cheney won. Thirty-one percent said it was a tie.

Cheney, 63, and Edwards, 51, sat a few feet apart around a semicircular table on a stage at Case Western Reserve University. Gwen Ifill of PBS, moderator for the evening, faced them.

The debate format encouraged give-and-take, and neither the vice president nor Sen. John Kerry's running mate shrank from the task.

"Frankly, senator, you have a record that's not very distinguished," Cheney said to the North Carolina lawmaker after accusing him of a pattern of absences in the Senate during his one term.

Talk about close...

Just for fun, I took a look at the webpages for NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN and FoxNews, looking for their stories on who won. The results, while totally unscientific were interesting.

An NBC voters Poll showed Edwards the winner, while a poll of NBC commentators gave the win to Cheney overwhelmingly.

The CBS Undecided Voters Poll quoted above showed Edwards as the winner.

The ABC Voters Poll, also quoted above, showed Cheney the winner.

CNN did not do a poll, but quoted both the CBS and ABC Polls.

Fox also didn't have a voters poll, but said that the consensus of their commentators was that Cheney won the Foreign Policy (first) part of the Debate and Edwards won the Domestic Affairs (second) part of the debate.

I'm not sure I've ever seen anything quite like this. Obviously, both candidates scored some big points with various groups.

The Vice President should not be in the media. The Vice President should not be essentially sitting there for four years playing PR games and trying to be President. It used to be that if you were a rising star in your party and were highly capable but didn't have everyone in the party loving you, then you were made VP. Before this administration, a few Vice Presidents had chosen instead to work on their resume rather than the tasks assigned to them.

Frankly, I am glad that Cheney has chosen to serve in his role and not just smile in front of a camera.

-Rudey