Why does Kerry flip-flop and straddle on Iraq?
 

Does anyone know?

-Rudey

Zell says it all.
 

Zell says it all.

Re: Zell says it all.
 

Hmm Zell is one of those Democrats that doesn't seem to agree with Kerry. It's funny that former Mayor Ed Kotch of NY felt the same way. And didn't Zell introduce Clinton at the Democratic convention at one point?

http://www.kerryoniraq.com/

I believe this documentary says it best.

Do the Democrats have a response on why Kerry is a straddler on Iraq?

-Rudey

Zell hasn't been a Democrat in 2 years. He is just staying a Democrat for the shock value to try to help out Bush. He has voted along the Republican party line the last 2 years.

I do find the anti Zell commericals here in GA funny. Has the speach I believe from either 2000 or 2002 were Zell was demanding Bush must go.

Yes, Zell gave the keynote at the 1992 Convention I believe. People's likes/dislikes change over time; Zell's in his last term, correct? I thought I heard he was retiring after his term ended.

I'm curious to see what he says in his speech.

And only term.

True, but he was governor for quite a while in the state, and has been a legislator for many years.

Re: Why does Kerry flip-flop and straddle on Iraq?
 

Because he can.

People voting for Kerry don't really want the truth, they just want someone to tell them what they want to hear...and Kerry delivers that 100% of the time.

Re: Why does Kerry flip-flop and straddle on Iraq?
 

Ketchup?

Seriously does anyone know? Come on Brandon I know you're a Democrat so could you explain? Perhaps you have read more on Kerry than I have.

Regardless of whether Zell is a favorite of the Democrat party or not, he is still a Democrat.

-Rudey

I think he voted for the war because thats what the people of his state wanted at the time. I think he has always been anti war. He voted not to fund the war because the tide of opinion started to sway and he felt safer voting the way he feels. Personally I think any politican should vote for what a majority of his/her state wants. Same goes the president. They are voted on to represent the people so why not vote the way the majrority wants him to. Is it better to vote solely on personal beliefs even though a majority may be against it? I may disagree with the majorirty on some issues but I don't blame politicians voting with the majorority. He is catholic and doesn't favor abortion. But a slight majority do and a great majority in his party does. So he goes against his personal beliefs to give the majority what they want. Thats what he was voted in to do.

Well thats how I see it all. If people call it flip flopping and dislike him because he doesn't soley vote on his beliefs then thats fine don't vote for him.

I don't see him as voting with his constituency. Brandon I drew you into this because I knew it would be difficult for you to defend it.

This is Kerry's biggest weakness. He says he is for the war and WMD do not matter. He says he is anti-war. I'm sorry but the two simply can't match.

The fact is that Republicans are able to put pressure on Bush to adopt certain policies. That is why the Log Cabin Republicans are moving to try and counter other Republicans who are against gay marriage. Why is it that Kerry supporters are so unable to get him to start adopting policies and not straddling them? This by the way is different from voting for something, seeing the situation change totally, and voting for something else. This is not adopting a clear position so you are able to adopt it if things go well and dodge it if things don't.

-Rudey

Re: Re: Why does Kerry flip-flop and straddle on Iraq?
 

I'm voting for Kerry because I don't think John Ashcroft belongs within 50 miles of my uterus and because I don't think religion should ever be forced on people.

Thanks for playing, though.

Re: Re: Re: Why does Kerry flip-flop and straddle on Iraq?
 

you're seriously voting based on one and a half issues?


Guys, come on - the religious right is such a small (loud, annoying, insipid) part of the Republican Party - most of us don't even acknowledge them, and any bones tossed to them in platforming will be quickly killed by moderates on the floor.

Also - I seriously cannot imagine a scenario in which Roe v. Wade gets overturned . . . you can call me idealistic or naive, but I feel that the 'chicken little' act is a little overplayed, seeing as people have done it every time a Republican gained office since 1980.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why does Kerry flip-flop and straddle on Iraq?
 

I wonder if people would have voted for a Republican prior to 1980 when the religious right was a voting bloc in the Democrat party.

-Rudey

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why does Kerry flip-flop and straddle on Iraq?
 

No, I'm voting on other issues too - and you may feel that way about the religious right, but I'm not okay with Bush's faith baith initiatives. My relationship with God is mine, not mine to force on the world.

As for the pro-choice - it's not just about abortion. It's about the Bush administration trying to limit access to birth control, and flat out denying foreign aid to countries who have contraception policies they disagree with. It's about Ashcroft wanting in my medical records.

I will expound on the other issues more in one of the other threads on that - I'm actually a very conservative Democrat but I can't really ever see myself voting Republican unless major major changes were made in the party.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why does Kerry flip-flop and straddle on Iraq?
 

Do you know why Kerry straddles issues like Iraq? :(

-Rudey

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why does Kerry flip-flop and straddle on Iraq?
 

I don't really think he's straddling it - I don't think he has much of a choice now considering that if he wins in November, he's going to inherit the war. War is not really my main issue.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why does Kerry flip-flop and straddle on Iraq?
 

He said he would vote for the war no matter what. If he was President there would have still been war.

How is he not straddling it? He has straddled gay marriage as well among other issues.

-Rudey

Despite Kerry's "flip-flopping" it seems that many other people in other nations would be happier with him:

30 nations pick Kerry: Poll
34,000 adults surveyed in 35 countries
Respondents oppose Bush foreign policy
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968350060724

The end of the article is interesting though:
"The PIPA study found that although more than nine in 10 Americans feel it is very or somewhat important that U.S. foreign policy be an instrument that gives the country a positive image around the world, they are not about to change their vote based on the perceptions of those outside this country."

This post has nothing to do with this thread. And take heed, other nations do not vote in American elections - the American people do.

-Rudey

Actually this post does have a lot to do with this thread, which correct me if I'm wrong is a discussion on comments Kerry foreign policy. This is just offering another perspective on the arguement, from those "foreigners" that will be affected by the outcome of the US election. The article made also made express note of the fact that the American voter isn't swayed by perceptions abroad - which I found an interesting diconnect in the whole foreign policy picture.

No this is a discussion on Kerry straddling the issue of Iraq. So your lie/misunderstanding/ignorance has been correctied.

Again you do not vote or have any say in our election, the American people do.

-Rudey

Does that surprise you?

Other countries want a weaker America. A vote for Kerry is a vote for a weaker America.

Thank God they have no say.

It's like saying what players do the Red Sox want playing for the Yankees.

-Rudey

Except that if people thought about it, it's not. Having a strong America is important for most of the world....
I mean, American has an economic burp and the world economy goes into limbo. Being the only super power unfortunately means the entire world has to care about the choices you make because in the end, it does affect us. And for us Canadians, "in the end" usually means 2-4 months from now. So while we have no say in your election, you can see why we might care who wins.

That said, a lot of people just don't like Bush for unimportant reasons and would rather see Elmo wins than him. :p

The way I see it, it's a simple case of haves and have nots for most of the world. It is usually true that have-nots wish horrible things to befall the haves. So why wouldn't they want Kerry elected?

They usually don't have a sophisticated enough understanding of the world to understand that a strong America helps them. They're also typically too proud to admit that.

Umm yes and no. There are benefits for some people that America be strong (Canada) and even more benefits for some people that America be weak (Europe and Asia). And it's not just America being weak; it's America being while while they are strong. There's a difference.

-Rudey

Bush Flips on Chechnya
 

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040927_70.html

It's hard for me to support our government on this move when Putin is endangering the fledgling Democracy by consolidating power, but at the same time the Cechen nationalist movement has fallen into terrorist tactics.

Leave it to you, a Democrat, to spread rumors and lies.

Here is someone flipping and straddling an issue:
http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Mult...r.aspx?ID=1043

John Kerry the greatest flip-flopper ever. We really need someone like him flio-flopping over whether he wants to defend America or hug terrorists in warm fuzzy pink blankets.

-Rudey

Why does Kerry keep flip-flopping and straddling Iraq?
 

http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Mult...r.aspx?ID=1043

Any reasons why?

-Rudey

This is a straddle:

Democratic challenger John Kerry has said Bush is "ignoring America's interest in seeing democracy advance in Russia." If he is elected president, the Massachusetts senator said, "we will wage war against terrorists while encouraging renewed progress toward democracy."

repeat thread
http://greekchat.com/gcforums/showth...threadid=56231
in before the lock

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why does Kerry flip-flop and straddle on Iraq?
 

http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Mult...r.aspx?ID=1043

So does Kerry want to protect America or just hug the terrorists in pink fuzzy warm blankets and sing Kumbaya?

-Rudey

I like how you, a Democrat, repetitively post lies and propoghanda and then can never defend those lies so you try and lock up the threads with the truth.

-Rudey

when did ABC become propaganda? (no h)

Propaganda (you should know how to spell it since you spread it) is the fake titles and lying commentary you provide.

When did ABC become CNN?

-Rudey

I think . ... and I am not defending or criticising Kerry . . . That as a politician he is trying to be all things to all people in order to get elected.

If you think about it, in the end he doesn't really know whats up until he gets into office and starts receiving reports directly.

If I remember correctly, one of Kennedy's major planks when he ran for office was that he was going to fix the enormous disparity between our American nuclear arsenal and the Russian one.

It was a huge campaign issue. When he got into office and started receiving the real reports, he learned that there was indeed an enormous disparity . . . in our favor lol.

I think people called for his resignation then . . . much like Bush not finding the WMD's.

But seriously. As a conservative I am not going to support a President that signs the Patriot Act into law. I don't mind killing all the foreign nationals the President fears is a threat to the country. But the Patriot Act is a betrayal.

Re: Why does Kerry keep flip-flopping and straddling Iraq?
 

Awesome Bush ad!