Please, A Kappa Viewpoint?, A BGLO Viewpoint?
 

Noble Gentlemen of Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity Inc.,
I am 24 year old graduate of Michigan State University, home of the Delta Pi Playboy Chapter. I went through my whole college career witnessing the suspension of that chapter from the yard. I've wanted to be in your brotherhood since I was younger trying to emulate my uncle who was a founding father of Epsilon Tau Chapter of Ferris State University and my Father who followed. When I grew up to an age where thinking for myself was a must, Kappa was still on the brain. I've read "The Story of Kappa Alpha Psi" from front to back several times and studied the history of your organiztion only to get to college and experience Delta Pi being kicked off the yard when I was a freshman. I was Heartbroken! But I have still studied and waited patiently for almost 5 years to hope to complete what I think is one of the most valuable privaledges a chosen man can attain. Through college I have witnessed "letters" being ripped off someone's chest, specific greeks being shunned by the yard, and a face being spit in all because someone did not get "made" the way someone else might have. I've also witnessed "Paper" greeks being scared to wear parry in public because they were mede to be felt that they didn't belong. My question to those that have crossed the burning sands...If I am privaledged enough to become a Noble man through the Grad Chapter that I have chosen to pursue, will I be treated the same by those who have endured a different process? Will I be able to hang with the different undergraduate chapters and not feel shunned or left out? Am I limited to what I can do as a member? Shouldn't we all share the same language, the same glory? Can I be "made" through Grad Chapter Initiation? It's not my fault that Delta Pi Chapter was off the yard when I was in school. I still made friends with them and the Grad Chapter I am pursuing. I just want to be treated fairly, If and when I have the privaledge to wear letters in public, and not be limited to whom I can talk to, hang out with, and serve the community with. I'd like to hear from a few members on this subject. Please come at with an undergrad or "made" standpoint. I have found that once alot of greeks graduate and start thier careers and actually grow out of the child's play, they change thier viewpoint on the whole Made/Paper topic. Thats why i'm asking you to think back to when you were in school or those who are in school now, and what you thought of those "Paper" or "Grad Chapter" Kappas who came around and wanted to chill, party, or just put in work with you. If possible, I'd also like to hear from a couple members who DID go through a Grad Chapter Process and how you are treated/respected.

Thanks Alot fellas,

Big Cheehf

NUPE4LIFE???

To me my stand point is, your founders pledged. Your founders lived in the mid west in the midst of whites back in 1911. If blacks were being hung and ran out of town back in the 60's i can't imagine what it was like in 1911. The process was design for the pledge of every day life. I think you should get made if brothers know how to conduct themselves. Being made helps me throughout my everyday life. I do things with a sense of urgency, excuses are not in my thoughts, and committment is what I do. Pledging is a microcasm of everyday life. No it doesn't make you less of man or a less of a member that you didn't. It goes deeper than getting respect. The process gets so deep it becomes personal and you can only relate to what im saying if you got "made".

Just a question. Who pledged your Founders?

Good Question! Society did. Black men in the 1911 in the midwest didn't have the priviledges of the black men in Washington D.C. or New York. And I praise my founders even more because they founded it at a White institution. After all thats where the blacks were migrating to to the north. Why? to have more freedom and opportunity. Blacks weren't migrating to the midwest where lenching and other racial activities were still going on and permissable. Its in the history books. My founders went through some compromises, some difficult times, uneasy moments all to become better god fearing men. That taught them to have humility. Those experiences taught them how to stay committed to what they believed in. We had it easy, we had a process. It was to a certain point. My founders were faced with death everday because of the color of there skin, but they continued to achieve. Thats how my founders pledged. Like I said, Pledging is a MICROCASM OF EVERYDAY LIFE. I believe the women of DST pledged because black women in the 13's had it rough. They pledged. Yeah, they didn't take wood or line up every night dressed alike, but they were faced with obstacles, trials and tribulations that made them better women for their legacy to be going strong today. Everyday your life is a pledge. If you have a car note. Your pledging BMW, VOLKSWAGEN whatever the case maybe. What I can't figure out is why the greek organizations were founded at howard. To me thats like having a Black Student Union at a HBCU today. In MY opinion blacks have always tried to distinguish themselves within each other. Is that why we are having so much problems in the black community today?

An interesting take on the issue of pledging. But I don't equate having a car note to making a pledge of a lifetime commitment to the car maker. Heck I can sell the car at anytime and buy one from another maker.

And I don't understand your question about why BGs were founded at Howard. Are you saying that being founded at a PWI makes more sense or gives more credibility?

Howard provided an atmosphere that allowed the fraternities and sororities to come into existence without the struggles such as having to change the name of the organization because of racist usage.

Great post. I don't get the car part but the fact that society pleged our founders is the truth! My line brothers and I (all of whom soon left me online by myself....) were talking about that one night before set, we were pissed off as usual and we were trying to figure out why we had to do what we had to do to become members and one of the points that was made was; "The founders wasn't out there beatin each other down!" If I would of looked at it like you do at that point in time, maybe everyone I started with would of finished with me.:D

About the car, If I baught a Car. What do i have to do now? I have to work or keep on working. There will be some days that you don't want to go to work, but guess what? You will have to because you have to Finish paying for the car. there Will be some days where getting to work isn't easy. but you have to keep in mind I have to pay for this car. Does anyone remember those days when you didn't want to go to set? but you didn't want to give up? So now I see through the eyes of the "droppers" because of Ladygreek. LadyGreek would sell the car because obviously she is tired of working for the car. Meaning, You can say hell wit the process because you no longer want it. Your tired of going to set. If you buy a BMW and you want to keep your BMW, Work for you BMW. If you no longer want to endure the hardships of the BMW meaning going to work and working hard to keep that BMW yours. Drop like the people do on lines and sell the car like LadyGreek would. how about that now? is that clear?

No.

Could you please answer my other question, too? Thanks

I made it clear as possible. I can't understand why the blacks on Howards campus tried to seperate themselves from each other by making such organizatitons. All you had to do was ralley up the students. Instead they formed groups. Kept as a secret society. I mean that was nothing new. Blacks been doing it for years and until this day we still are. I think it gives much validation to the greeks that were founded at white schools because you had to bond it was only a certain amount of blacks there. At Howard, it was a bunch of blacks it was a black school. Once again, trying to seperate themselves. The car thing, have the mindset that of a person who wants and not need. After all you did want to be a Delta you didn't need to be.

Interesting.

I guess I get it now... it's just a different perspective to look at yourself pledging (in my case) to Honda. lol :D But it makes sense.

MADENUPE. that is some deep truth. i feel i am stronger since ive been on this side of KAPPA and one of the main reasons i chose this frat was b/c it was founded in the midwest at a predominantly white school. it is still bad there today, not as bad as 1911 but still bad. i had so much respect for the history before i even thought about this frat. you just added a deeper perspective and another reason for me to love the Diamond.

YO!!!

This is not a black world and it never will be. I think it was great for them to travel and go to another institution. I think they paved the way for blacks attending traditional white institutions today, especially males. Black people love to compete and so happen compete within each other. I don't even see the point of HBCU's around today. Blacks will distinguish each other and always have been. Let me give you a few examples, BET which is owned by whites, Viacom. Radio One, Kathleen Hughes, but has whites running things. Thats not how Dr. Martin Luther King (not a member of Kappa Alpha Psi) and other black activist were pushing towards. They wanted INtergration not Segregation.

Oh My!
 

Now this is scary.

And the difference between HBCUs and BGLOs (for example the one you are in) is?

Not just scary but funny how the same argument is given by some white greeks as to why BGLOs exist today.

The Difference is When I go for a job interview and my resume says Hampton and the other person says Michigan and we're both applying for a Engineering Job. I don't think Hamptons Engineering Program is in the top 5. Michigans is though.


Today, Kids at HBCU's are convinced they are competing against other HBCU's for jobs and not across the globe. HBCU's were established for what reason? Aren't those days over? Or do we still have to brain wash our black kids these days that the white man is holding us down?

The United States is 75% White, 11% Black. You do the math.

Not true. I attended a PWI and upon graduation I had a job with one of the then Big 5 accounting firms. They heavily recruited at my school every semester. I had friends who attended Howard and guess who was there every semester too? Yup, those same firms and my friends had the same job offers. Look at this thread http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...threadid=57394 and you can see the same discussion about law schools.

I see that you are emphasizing the career aspect of HBCUs, but what about the other aspects of why people choose to attend HBCUs? Is that your only basis as to why HBCUs are unnecessary?

MadeNupe,

I understand what you are saying in a way, but I find that graduates of HBCU's are just as qualified as those students of PWI's. You must also remember that alot of the quantitative parameters that are used to evaluate institutions of higher learning are based on a system that is intrinsicially racist, so there is really no way to make a objective comparison.

:rolleyes:


Would you feel the same way about the founding of some of the BGLO's on Howard's campus had you become a member of a fraternity other than KAPsi or A Phi A? I guess the world will never know.:rolleyes:

One More Thing!
 

MadeNupe8

Your profile says you are pursuing a career in entertainment.

Now, if you happened upon Antoine Fuqua, F. Gary Gray and John Singleton (aside from him being a Kappa), ...

...and you also happened upon Gary Marshall, Ron Howard, and Brett Rattner, which group would you feel more like to give you an opportunity?

Just asking:rolleyes:

My daughter had Howard on her resume and she had offers up the yang yang--in Minnesota even!

So do you feel it is wrong for Kappa to have chapters at HBCUs since it is so divisive?

20 pearl. How are you? Charter member of my chapter told me he had John Singletons number. I haven't seen it yet. I work for a film company in DC where whites own it. I am the only Black person in there. They are the only one who has given me an opportunity. I won't talk about how I have emailed Spike Lee's Brother and asked him did he need any help on his films. Haven't heard from him. I emailed this Film company and immediately they wanted me to come in and start. For F. Gary Gray, I hope to work with him one day, but not for the simple fact that he is black, but for the simple fact to learn his directing skills and to formulate my own. Ron Howard is a genious so I can't wait to work with him either. I think it would be very racist if John Singleton or F Gary Gray looked at me and said they were going to hire me because I'm black. Don't you? After all wouldn't your employer (Just say he is white) be racist if he looked at someone competing for the job with you was white and based on that he hired the other person because he/she is white. To answer your question based on what has happened thus far in the industry I think Ron Howard would hire me first. I am going out to L.A. Who hired me for the shoot out there? Surely no one that is black.

Nah, I don't think so. An organization at a HBCU like Kappa is great for black men to teach them how to achieve.

Kappa is a lifestyle not an attribute. The way us Kappas talk, walk, and act is Kappa. I never wanted to be anything else. Nor did I go to any other's information sessions. I knew I wanted to be a Kappa and I knew that my lifestyle was paralell to my founders.

Hmm, ok you win. :(

:D

Prettygirl03 Do your research on A phi A. The only thing Greek about A PHI A is their letters. I'm not saying that because I am a Kappa. You can go on the internet and find that out. Like I said before because obviously we are not reading (Something a lot of black folk don't do). I never wanted to be anything else. Before I even went to college I asked myself how do you know where you are in life if you have never achieved anything. What does everyone use as a scale to find out where they are in life. THEIR ACHIEVEMENTS. Q's believe in perservering. You can do that all your life and never achieve what your perservering in and pretty you know that. I went to college and came across an organization that I wanted to be a part of and they were even suspended at the time. There were no Kappa's nor Kappa activity on my yard Since 92. It was strictly the organizations principles and purpose that I decided to pursue it. It coincided with what I had already believed in and promoting before I went to college. Look how Q's act and look how Kappa's act. We are naturally smooth and generous. We don't hop around and bark like dogs. Majority, if not all of A PHI A's founders defied what true men are. Kappa Alpha Psi, yes is just a fraternity, but the men that uphold and carry on the principles of Kappa is so much more. Like I said before Kappa is not a attribute, but a lifestyle. Kappa's are chosen in the womb, not at interest meetings. I really have a lack of respect for AKA's who are taken these large lines of 90 and 80 people. Is all about money(numbers)? or true sisterhood?

If you look at me as if I am speaking for all black people, thanks, but that's not what I am doing. I am saying what is real and what people are scared to say. I am not the only who feels this way Greek and Non-Greek. I am just someone bold enough to say it on a message board or in someone's face, but not with a nasty attitude or harsh feelings.

Oh My. All Ques do is hop around and bark? APhiA's Founders defied what true men are? Yet Kappas are smooth and generous. Smooth like in shimmying and holding up mirrors? What a joke!

There was no reason to go there about the AKAs and I am sure you include Delta with that. So don't respect us. Very honestly that is better for us since you also don't respect HBCUs and any org founded on one. Therefore, having your respect would not be a good thing.

BTW, since the only thing greek about A PHI A is their letters, please enlighten us on what makes the rest of us greek. Or maybe only Kappa is.

I am just :eek: at this thread...

for MadeNupe8
 

I really was trying to stay out of this discussion because on some levels we'll always disagree with one another on topics like this but I am interested in your answers to these questions. Answer them however you like or if you like but needless to say I'm intrigued.

1) How exactly did the Alpha Phi Alpha founders defie what men were supposed to be? What is lacking in their organization, according to you, that some of your comments were warranted?

2) Without being intimately involved with an organization is commenting on public aspects of the organization warranted (ie stating the brothers of Omega Psi Phi would persevere but may not arrive or all they do is hop around and bark).

3) Why is it you can't give respect to women who either brought in the line or are on the line that is larger than you would like? And what reason do you have to question their sisterhood? (Just wondering because while yes it could be about money to someone somewhere, there may be a justified reason for the large line--ie 600 women showed up to rush they took the 60 most qualified or about 10 percent of those in attendance)

4) Was there any particular reason why you ignored the men of Phi Beta Sigma or Iota Phi Theta in your discussion?

5) Isn't BGLO life big enough to welcome all those that would work for their organization and respect it?

6) Is being "made" so important in the Kappa realm, according you, that all of these hazing reports and subsequent suspensions are just to be expected?

Girl you and me both, but the wonderful thing about this is that we are all entitled to our own opinions about our own org or everyone's org. We all don't have to understand or agree to it, but it's interesting to read.

carry on:D

MadeNupe8,

I am reading your post and you sound very bitter and ignorant. Every member of a BGLO, and every aspirant has personal reasons why they chose the org's that they did, but for you to berate other org's so blatantly on a public message board is childish to say the least. You, Clarence Thomas, Condolezza Brown Rice...need I say more? Why did you become a member of a BGLO in the first place?:mad:

When you generalize your statements by saying blacks, and not using the appropriate qualifier, then expect one to think you are speaking for all blacks. Reality is in the eye of the beholder. It's relative and subjective based upon who's speaking on it.

I thought you were someone who was just ignorant (that means uninformed) enough to say it. However, I'm very glad that the Nupes I've come into contact with, and others, don't hold your same viewpoint. Otherwise your organization may not have perpetuated beyond Alpha Kappa Nu.:)

I get confused about that--was it Alpha Kappa Nu or Kappa Alpha Nu? MadeNupe, want to enlighten up please?

To the rest of y'all--how come you left me and Pretty in here so long by ourselves with him????:D :D

You took the words out of my mouth. His comments are baseless and poorly articulated. And there was no need to compare Kappa to any other organization, it should be able to stand alone! It's best that Sigma and Iota weren't included in this conversation.

We knew ya'll could handle it!;) But seriously, I finally took the time to read this madness.