Non-Christians
 

Hi, I've been reading the posts on your site for a while now, and I have noticed that many of your members have included a discussion of Christianity and Christian principals in their posts. I understand that your organization was founded upon Christian principals but is there any room (In Your Opinions) for non-Christians or even Atheists?

-Teresa

In my opinion, I would not hold a person's religious preference against them when it comes to membership in DST. However, when posed with this type of question(as I often have been), I like to reply with a question of my own. Why would someone want to join an organization if she does not believe in the Christian principles for which the organization was founded upon and currently stands?


***If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.***

You said it, Soror! Personally, I have no problem accepting people whose religious preferences differ from my own, but keeping in mind the ideals and principles of my organization, I, too, have to wonder why anyone would want to join a sorority founded on principles or morals that contradict their own! To me, that would be an indicator that their interest in the Sorority is not heartfelt.

True Story:

When I was a neo, there were three ladies of African decent who made line at my chapter. Initially my sorors and I were worried that the cultural differences would create problems among the LSs, but the African ladies got along quite well with the others on the line. So, we were very shocked when they decided to drop. They admitted that it was because they are Muslim and that the beliefs of their faith did not agree with the principles of DST; they didn't want to waste anymore of our time by remaining in the process. We were sad to lose such dynamic women, but I admire them for making that choice-- it was clearly the right one for them. In my opinion, the principles of any organization should match those of the people in it.

the411

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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE

I appreciate the well thought out replys but I not sure what it is about the 'Christian ethic' that would be in opposition with the moral values of Jews and Muslims. Believe it or not, I was raised a Jew (my mother is from Ethiopia) and besides the issue of Jesus (his divinity) I have never had any 'moral' disagreements with either Christians or Muslims. So I guess the question is... what is it about your organization and its Christian roots that would exclude a practicing Jew or Muslim?

-Teresa

Besides the issue of Jesus?!?!?! Isn't Jesus Christ and his reign the very CORE of Christianity?!?!? If one does not believe in his existence, then clearly he/she does not need to affiliate himself/herself with an organization based on CHRISTianity.

Unfortunately it is not the business of non-Deltas as to how a practicing Jew or Muslim would feel excluded, since our rituals are sacred and classified. Just focus on what it means to be a Christian and you can answer that question yourself.

If a young lady pursues Delta membership despite the fact that her religous beliefs contradict the principles of Christianity, I'd be tempted to believe that she is only interested in Delta for superficial reasons. She should choose Delta because the Sorority's principles and virtues match her own personal beliefs and not because she wants to step or be popular.

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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE

Dear the411,
I believe that you misinterpreted my question. First of all, I am not at all interested in learning about your secret rites. My question was, "What is it about your organization, with its Christian roots, would exclude a practicing Jew or Muslim?" To simplify, I only meant to ask, Do you feel that the Christian (moral) principals that your organization was founded upon would conflict with those of a Jew or a Muslim. Obviously I am not a member, and quite honestly, I do not have any desire to become a member, I was simply trying to ask a benign question. And despite the issue of the divinity of Jesus, we Jews share basically the same MORALS as you Christians. After all, you got them from us!

-Teresa

Teresa2000:

I think the point is that the explanation that they would give if they chose to would come too close to revealing their rituals. The value of Christianity in most BGLO/NPHC can be found in our rituals.

The other is the obvious, someone gave you the answer. The thing that might make a Christian based BGLO difficult for a Muslim or Jew is the belief in Christ the deity not just the prophet. If you don't believe in Christ as God then why would you (anyone) want to join an org that does. Not that you could not but why would you want to.

Sorry I'm postin' all up in your room

From one sister friend to many....
Skee-oop http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif


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Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.
L.R.O.G.
#1 Fall 97
Omicron Pi

[This message has been edited by lluvmook98 (edited October 18, 2000).]

Girl, don't even worry about it. Sisterfriends are more than welcome here! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Quite honestly, speaking ONLY for my organization, I can say that as long as you respect the Christian roots of the organization and aren't there to challenge and/or disrupt, a member's spirituality isn't a question. And certainly their RELIGION (being different from one's spirituality) should not matter, as long as they adhere to the precepts of the organization. Again, I can only speak from my experience in my organization, which is not Delta Sigma Theta.

Additionally, I have yet to observe a denomination in Christianity (Protestant or Catholic) in which EVERY person who subscribes to the faith agress with EVERY SINGLE teaching, principle and "rule." But they respect them, in general, or leave.

Teresa,

Our sister of AKA said it
(Thanks,lluvmook98!). The only way I or my sorors could answer your question is to reveal sacred deatils of our Delta rituals. But, even without the evidence of rituals, I'd have to say YES, our Christian principles would conflit with the morals of anyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ and His reign, simply because those principles are based primarily on the fact that Jesus Christ DID indeed walk the earth and is the Saviour and Lord of those who worship him through CHRISTianity. We are not just talking about moral issues of right and wrong-- we are talking about moral issues of riteousness BASED ON THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST. If one does not believe in Jesus Christ, then how is it possible for him/her to believe in or agree with His teachings? As the basis of Christianity, after all, the teachings are derived from the events during His existence, right? It doesn't matter which religion came first; the issue is that the two conflict.

No one is saying that a Jew or a Muslim would be denied membership; Delta Sigma Theta Soroity, Inc., does not discriminate on the basis of age, race, creed, or religion. All I'm saying is that, for ME-- I'd have to wonder why a non-Christian would want to join an organization founded on religious principles that conflict with their own. In the example I gave in my earlier post, I mentioned having selected 3 Muslim students for membership who, upon going through the process, realized that they could not be a part of the organization because of its Christian roots, and decided to drop line. No one encouraged them to do so. It was because of their strong committment to their Muslim faith and its conflicts with Christianity that they willingly declined their pre-initiate status.

Pardon my harshness-- I just want you to understand that as a Delta, I can't ignore the CHRIST in CHRISTianity, even if its morals coincide with those of a non-Christian faith. Perhaps if there are Sorors out there who share your faith or that of another non-Christian religion, they could shed more light on the subject than I.

the411

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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE

I have to say that, despite the fact that I am not a member, I would have to agree with Discogoddess. Also, don't you think that the entire idea of religion and religios ideology just serves to separate us even more (as African-Americans)? I may not be a Christian but I do admire most Christian ideals. Honestly, I agree with most of the teachings of Christ, as to whether or nor I believe in him as a diety, should not be important. I think that a sorority that claims to choose its member base upon academic achievement, community service and overall morality should not be concerned with religion. If I agree with the principals of the sorority and I like what they are doing, then why would I not want to become a member?

p.s. I hope that no one will take offense to my posts. I mean no disrespect!
-Teresa

Again, let me stress that our Sorority does NOT discriminate on the basis of religion. However, in an effort to avoid initiating members who are in the Sorority for the wrong reasons, it is only natural that we fully assess the intentions of those who submit. If I know that your personal beliefs contradict those upon which our organization is based, I will question your motives and intentions. I'd wonder if you're more interested in the pagentry and benefits of black greek life, than the heart of what DST is all about, seeing as though Christian principles are the core of that heart. By saying that, I am not speaking for all my sorors or on behalf of Delta Sigma Theta-- I am telling you how I'd handle it. I'd have to wonder what would happen if/when we get to something ritualistic with which a non-Christian would disagree (granted she is steadfast in her faith). I am all about those women who stand firm in their beliefs, and not those who fall wherever the wind blows. My concern would be primarily that perhaps Delta is not a match for said prospective, not whether or not the prospective is a match for Delta. I do not doubt for an angstrom of a second that a Jew, Muslim, Buddist, etc., could commit herself, wholeheartedly, to public service, scholarship, and leadership. However, I would not want her be uncomfortable in an organization deeply rooted in a religion that conflicts with her proclaimed faith.

You have not offended me. I appreciate your quest for knowledge and I respect your contentions.

the411

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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE

Greetings Ladies,

I was not going to post but have changed my mind. Someone stated that all BGLO have a foundation of "Christian" principals. But lets be real (maybe this slang is old much like me - lol) about the thang. We all pray to God and have rituals that encompass his/her love but do we R E A L L Y put this as a priority in our organization. Think about it - - when the Delta's, AKA's and even men of APhiA are hosting a show nuff throw down party nobody says anything about Christian principals. I'm not trying to devalue the spirituality of our perspective organizations however I think we all know that we are not exactly asking members if they have given their lives to Christ before seeking membership.

Hello distinguished ladies of Deltas Sigma Theta.

Please forgive my ignorance here, but isn't Betty Shabazz a notable member of Delta Sigma Theta?

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We often give our enemies the means for our own destruction.

Aesop c550 BC

No, we don't ask members that, and we shouldn't. But more importantly, we sure aren't asking them if they can step or throw a mean party, either-- we KNOW those aren't qualities we give a hoot about! However, when seeking information about Delta Sigma Theta, one would be made FULLY aware that our Sorority is founded on Christian principles. Recognizing that parties, stepshows, and other social pagentries are minor, INSIGNIFICANT components of Delta Sigma Theta and what she stands for, I just can't see why anyone would want to join when her personal beliefs completely conflict with the MEAT/CORE/HEART of the sorority's principles. Besides, MY behavior (greek social gatherings included) has never contradicted with Christian beliefs; it reflects the virtues of DST. Because those virtues match the attributes that make me who I am and love most about myself, I know Delta is a match for me. My contention is that, I can't understand how a non-Christian can feel like a Christian-based organization is a match for him/her, granted she is steadfast in her beliefs. If she can demonstrate that she is a match for Delta AND that Delta is a match for her (religious principles uncomprimised on both sides), then by all means, I'd welcome her into the Sisterhood with open, loving arms.

the411

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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE

Yes, Betty Shabazz is indeed a Soror! That says a lot, right?

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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE

Well said Soror the411!!

This is quite an interesting thread. It's probably one of the best that I have seen in a long time!

I do have a question though: To the members of Delta Sigma Theta, what exactly does it mean when it is said that Delta is founded upon Christian principles. Is this generally speaking? For example, does it mean being honest or loving one's neighbor or is it more sprecifc like stating Jesus Christ is the son of God? I know that I may be walking a thin line between public and private information and if I have crossed it please inform me. Is there any way to answer this generally speaking without breaking your vow of silence regarding the traditions and rituals of the sorority? I understand what both sides are saying and I am trying to gather an understanding sufficient enough to satisfy my own curiosity.

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MAKE A DIFFERENCE..NOT AN EXCUSE

REALITY,
It's almost impossible to accurately answer your question given the sacred nature of the Delta ritual. Maybe another one of my eloquent Sorors could do better than I.

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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE

Yes, God/Allah rest her soul.

ok well, despite not wanting to get too personal on this chatroom, i suppose i should chime in here.....i was born a Muslim however this does not impact the particulars of my day to day life; i do not pray 5 times a day or go to mosques every week....instead i choose to live my life by the guiding principle of being a good person rather than any particular interpretation of the Koran; my being Muslim comes into play during occasions such as weddings, funerals, and things of that nature....now as far as Delta is concerned.....my chapter knew about my background from the time they met me, it was no secret....however, to make it perfectly clear, i literally spelled it out (Sorors if you can think back far enough you will understand what i mean here) when i was seeking membership.....as an applicant, my knowledge was limited as to the extent Christianity played in the Sorority, knowing only that Delta was founded on Christian principles.....my interpretation of that was not to lie, steal, cheat, etc....anyway, i felt i was a match for Delta because of my committment to public service as well as my campus leadership and high scholarship....so i decided to let the ladies of the Chapter and others involved in the application process to make the decision for me.....they knew i was not Christian and i figured i would leave it up to them whether or not i would get on line.......well, as you can see, in my case, it did not matter to them.......Soror the411 makes a good point about the non-Christian's comfort level in Delta.....as for me, throughout my life there were times when i would go to church (Catholic and Baptist) with friends and also to celebrate Communion and in middle school I had Jewish friends who invited me to their Bat-Mitzvah so I also went to Temple...(and besides i think it is hippocritical if take part in Christmas and then refuse to go to a church service)....anyway, my point is that for me it is not offensive to go to church with my chapter, as often times we go to church together; however, i will say that i definitely don't understand everything that goes on.....anyway, to sum it up i think that the interested person should make it clear to the chapter if she is not a Christian and then let the chapter decide

As a non-christian sort of, I have to say that I totally respect christianity as a religion and I think that it definatly has it's great points--I practice a bit myself. I have a problem with the church and how political it gets sometimes, but I believe that the basics of christianity are very spiritual and a great guide on how to live your life. I don't personally believe the same things about God as all christians, but I do enjoy reading the Bible and talking about it. I enjoy the religion. I have respect for the religion. I just don't follow it for personal reasons.

This might be an example of a non-christian who wants to join your organization. How do you feel about this?

I posted this question in another forum, but I stumbled on this topic and felt compelled to post it again here.

I ask this strictly out of curiousity.

As Delta Sigma Theta Sorority operates right now in the year 2000, and without revealing any ritual items, is it a Christian sorority? If so, how?

I am not looking for drama or madness. Just serious thought-out replies.

Rain Man

[This message has been edited by Rain Man (edited November 28, 2000).]

Rain Man, I've responded to you via e-mail...



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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE

I think I speak for all my Sorors, particularly our moderators, when I say that, as members of Delta Sigma Theta, we've said all we can on this topic.

Please do not post any more questions about Delta's religious affiliations or principles. To say any more on the topic would be showing blatant disrespect for the sacredness of our Sorority. I ask that those of you who are not members of Delta Sigma Theta please refrain from asking questions to which answers can only be known by duly initiated members of our Sisterhood.

Should you choose to join our organization or any black greek organization, you will understand, once initiated, why we hold our secrets so dear, and undoubtedly you will do the same.

Thanks!



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Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
Pi Kappa, SP97
#3 of QUINTESSENCE