"Greek Club" for transfer students
 

After reading another thread regarding transfer students and Greek life, I was wondering if anybody recalls of a group/club that allowed Greeks to be members *only* if their GLO was not represented on the campus. I heard about this back in the early 1980s from a friend of a friend and I do not think it still exists.

Basically, what I recall is that there was a group called the Greek Club or Panhellenic Club - something like that - that was at a large mid-western or eastern university. (Indiana, Ohio State or Michigan maybe?) The school was the state flagship school and often students would transfer in from other schools in state or the area.

In any case, the group was made up primarily of sorority women, and some fraternity men, who had transfer into the school and their sorority or fraternity did not have a chapter on campus.

They had official school recognition as a club with officers, dues, functions etc. but they were not considered a Greek social organization. I'm fairly sure they did not have ritual or anything similar to that. Nor was it represented on any of the school's Greek councils. However, they were usually included in most Greek activities such as Greek Week and mixers. Basically it was a way for Greeks not affiliated with any chapter on campus to continue the social aspect of Greek life.

One of the interesting parts is that to be a member, you had to have a letter from your previous campus' chapter saying you were a member in good standing etc. And I believe members had to have and keep a certain GPA.

For what it is worth, it's an interesting concept and I'll see if I can find any additional information about it.

In the meantime, does this ring a bell with anyone? Again, it may have been as far back as the 1960s or 1970s. I heard about it in the early 1980s and even at that time, it was discussed in past tense. Like it didn't exist anymore.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Being originally from Kentucky, that may be why I heard of it. :D

Now that's a good idea!

I double-checked, and yes, those groups were in the 1950 yearbook of the U. of Louisville. The writeup on the Wandering Greeks (men's) organization says it was established there in 1945.

Nothing more to add.

That's a very interesting idea. It's an especially good idea for women from NPC sororities, since once you've been initiated into one NPC sorority you can never join another. Then Greek Week comes along and you can't participate, all the sororities are having formals and you don't have one to go to unless someone invites you to theirs, etc...

The group could also serve as a resource for PNMs. They would truly be unbiased. For example, the women could offer to be rho chis during formal rush (GeekyPenguin, didn't you look into this at one point?).

I wonder if there were similar organizations to the ones at UofL on other campuses.

What I recall - and granted, the conversation was over twenty years ago and I may be confused with some of the particulars - was that the "club" being discussed was at a flagship or land-grant state institution. I believe UofL was a metropolitan school - i.e. owned by the city - and not a state school at the time.

The other thing I recall was that this "club" was coed and I believe not part of any of the Greek councils. (Perhaps they had a seat on the councils, but no voting rights.)

Thank you Google
 

Google references to "Stray Greeks". (Wondering Greeks brings up only references to Greece.)

Florida Southern College
Panhellenic Council
Bylaws

Alpha Tau Omega Chapter at Southern California

Other references to "Stray Greek" organizations. Dates are not necessarily any time line, but dates associated with file folders of documents.

University of Arizona
University of North Carolina (1950-67)
University of Northern Colorado (1949-58)

Probably so. I think groups such as this used to be fairly common at large schools with significant transfer populations.

With all of the work they did establishing that organization they could have worked and tried getting a colony established of their own fraternity or sorority. Probably would have been more rewarding.

You're kidding me, right?

It took almost 60 years for my AGD Alumnae Club to establish the collegiate chapter at UH-M. Convincing IHQ and campus to let us in was similar to pulling teeth!

I can't speak for fraternities, but NPC Extension is no walk in the park. Colonization doesn't take place just because a few members on a campus are "lost".

It just doesn't work that way, sorry.

If you don't know how fraternities work, then maybe you shouldn't comment on it. If there is an interest group at a school (or even a local for that matter) they could petition a national fraternity to get recognized as a colony and work to attain chapter status. I'm not sure how your sorority does things, but I have also seen this done with sororities on several campuses.

she's right.

Besides, that's not the point. If there are 2 Phi Mus, 3 AGDs, an ASA and an Alpha Phi on a campus -- wandering, if you will -- is their only recourse trying to establish chapters of Phi Mu, AGD, ASA, and APhi?

ALSO consider transfers, by definition, have at least some of their education completed. Chartering a chapter can take YEARS. What, do they just kind of push it off the ground, then abandon it when they graduate a year later?

I never said that establishing a chapter is their only recourse, I simply said with all the work they did establishing an organization with officers, constitution, dues, etc, they COULD HAVE worked to start a chapter.

BTW, many colonies are started with Seniors helping to start them. They come back when chartered to get initiated. Transfer students could become the alumni base in the area and work as advisors after they graduate.

Also, could you give me some national organizations where it takes YEARS to charter? I believe the average is about 3 semesters. And most orgs have a rule that if not chartered within 2 years they are done.

Uh, read my comment again...can't find where I spoke about fraternities. :rolleyes:

It's basically a bad idea for any NPC, for the reasons Jacquelyn mentioned.

I think these groups are a great option. Not everyone wants to give up their last years in college to try and colonize their organization. Look at the extreme, what if there was an AST that transfered to Ole Miss...hahaha that would just not happen. (meaning AST doesn't have the local alumnae or the southern reputation needed to survive there) I think it is a great way for these people to connect, even though they are not an active member of their org.

I personally wouldn't join such an organization. I would rather try and start a chapter of my own fraternity. We joined our organizations as life members and should try to do whatever it takes to make it a success. It would be super rewarding to be an initiated member and also be a founding father of another chapter.

I think it's a great idea. It takes forever to get a GLO started at my school. They won't even hear about bringing another organization to campus until they are ready to. You can't just go to the Greek Life office and say you want to start a chapter of XYZ. If that was the case, then I bet a lot of schools would have all 26 NPCs and not a lot of members.

That's odd that it takes so long to get an organization on your campus. Usually if an interest group can sustain itself for at least one summer and able to recruit new members, any national organization would try to get into that group. Most greek advisors and councils know that recruitment numbers go up when a new organization gets onto campus.

I would have started my own chapter too, but then again I wasn't in their shoes.

-Rudey

EXACTLY.

None of the sororities at Pitt's branch campus have chapters at Pitt main, and this would be a great idea for them, as Pitt isn't open for NPC expansion and probably won't be until the current students are all blue haired grandmas.

Nebraska Delt, please do searches under "LSU*" and "Ole Miss" and you'll understand what we're talking about.

If its virtually impossible to start a chapter (which I hardly doubt would be the case. Any national organization would want to charter at large schools unless the school's greek system is out of control) and they are in their Senior year, then they could get involved in the alumni associations that are available in any large city where a chapter used to be (they are also in areas where no chapter has ever been).

These are only options they don't have to do anything. If they truly want to get involved in such an organization so be it. But if I wasn't going to start a chapter or get involved with my own organization somehow during my senior year, I sure would put my time to some important personal things pertaining to graduation or my future rather than some half ass social organization. Just my opinion.

Why is it any more "half ass" than being in an alum chapter?

Not all colleges are anywhere near large cities, and alum groups of every GLO are not in every large city. If an ASA alum transferred to Washington State there'd be nothing there for her - we've never had a chapter there or anywhere near it.

and yeah, maybe orgs WANT to charter at large schools, but I want to marry Ewan McGregor, and that isn't happening either. You can want to do it and work for it 24/7 and have your whole national org behind you and it STILL might not be feasible.

ok, but see there are 5 girls who transferred to this school. they are all members of a different npc's. so are you trying to say they each need to work by themselves to bring a chapter of their npc onto campus, when they campus or the sorority may not be expanding when they could all just band together and start a group for people like them?

I hope in your next life you come back as a sorority girl at a school that isn't open for expansion.

The only time I've heard of anything like this today was at Stanford. One of my pledge sisters transferred after our freshman year and became a social member of another organization. She didn't participate in ritual or recruitment but did get social privileges.

Sounds like a great club to be a part of... almost like its own local sorority.

I know that when I was an undergrad, I had my group of sorority sisters I was close with and another group of non-ADPi Greek women who I was equally close to. I can't imagine college life without either group!

I think this is a good idea -- I know a couple of us have explained why we're against the NPC's policies against transfer students joining a second NPC sorority, and stuff like this seems like a good compromise.

However, I'm not sure how viable it would be these days. It seems like things like this were fairly common back in the 1940s-50s when so many students were Greek and being Greek was such an integral part of campus like. Nowadays, even on big campuses like mine I'm not sure how many interested transfers with chapters not on campus there are. (For all I know, there could be a lot -- but I'm guessing there aren't THAT many.) It's definitely something to look into, though.

Ouch. :eek: :D

With respect to colonization, for the most part it is different for fraternities and sororities. What is good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander. And visa versa. ;)

Check the link to the story regarding the Alpha Tau Omega chapter and you will see that Marv Lester did indeed form a chapter of Alpha Tau Omega.

It goes on to explain what Marv did.

Frankly, in Marv's case, the USC Stray Greek Club seemed to be a natural organization for fraternity men to start with when seeking out other members of their national fraternity. Which in turn often lead to the formation of a chapter of their fraternity on the USC campus.

I would imagine that the organization [Stray Greek club] would already exist with officers etc. And I wouldn't think they really would have need of a constitution per say. Maybe some organizational by-laws that would have been stipulated by the University for official recognition.

In any case, it shouldn't be a situation where someone or some group of people would be reinventing this every time.

Why not do both?

Frankly, many IFCs don't allow an interest group to participate until their is recognition. As noted, that may take three semesters. So while working on your fraternity's colonization, you would have an official link to Greek life.

An additional benefit to being a member of a "Stray Greek" club would be the quick and easy access to contacts within the Greek community. Who may then assist you with colonization of a chapter of your fraternity.

Kind of a win-win situation to me.

33girl is right. You're assuming that it's all up to the organization in question, but if the university won't support it, it's not going to happen.

Case in point: Indiana University. Large school, very strong Greek system (19 of the 26 NPC sororities have chapters there) and many, many more women interested in joining sororities than spots available. (usually less than half the PNMs who start recruitment end up with bids) Now, doesn't that sound like a campus ripe for new chapters? Why aren't the other 7 NPC groups all there right now, chartering new chapters? It's a no-brainer, right?

Except it isn't. I don't know everything that has to happen, but I do know that the existing NPC groups have to approve expansion. And even if they do...I believe IU has a rule that any chapter wishing to colonize needs to be able to build a house within a certain amount of time...they need to be able to get land. And land just isn't available on campus.

If we use The University of Kentucky as an example; off the top of my head, the following GLOs are not currently represented at UK. However, they do have a chapter on at least one other state college campus.

Fraternities

Alpha Delta Gamma
Alpha Sigma Phi
Beta Theta Pi
Delta Upsilon
Sigma Alpha Mu
Tau Kappa Epsilon
Theta Chi

Sororities

Alpha Sigma Alpha
Gamma Phi Beta
Phi Mu
Phi Sigma Sigma
Sigma Sigma Sigma
Theta Phi Alpha

Even if it's just one from each of these groups, you have seven men and six women who are Greek yet not affliated with any chapter at UK. If you were to factor in neighboring states etc., there would be more groups. And most likely, more unaffliated Greeks.

Now with respect to the "numbers", I believe this may be one of the reasons why it was considered a "club" and not a Greek organization per say.

Again, the idea was to allow these Greeks who transfered, and didn't have a chapter of their GLO to affiliate with, the ability to participate somewhat in Greek Life.

And in a way, it really is similar to what some GLOs do now in that they allow non affiliated Greeks to be social members yet not be able to participate in ritual, voting and what not.

FYI: I noticed they do not use Greek letters. Perhaps out of respect to their particular GLOs I would guess.

Edited to correctly alphabetize the GLOs

I find it interesting that more of the men would immediately consider starting a new colony, while more of the women would be more amenable to the idea of a "Greek Club".

IMHO, I think a Greek Club is a Great Idea! I have friends who transferred, and ended up "hanging around" one chapter or another (if they could), but having a group of people in the same boat would be SOOO much easier!

Basically the entire NPC.

Here's how it might go: you establish a local, which may exist for several years while you build numbers, build an alumna base, steady your sights on what you want as a sisterhood. Then you petition your university to expand. Maybe that takes a semester to talk them into it....... maybe a year. After the university agrees, you invite several sororities to "present" on campus. So that's maybe another semester, you inviting, them preparing, making time to come visit. Then you choose one. Then you are installed as a colony. Then you pledge as a colony. Then you are initiated.

The whole thing takes forever. It's a nice system because it means fewer chapters fail, since it's kind of a mutual selection between the university, the girls, and the sorority -- but it does take forever.

This may be a reason why the group I heard about was made up primarily of sorority women.


Now with respect to fraternities, there are at least four ways that I can think of, that a fraternity (ABC) may colonize. I'm sure there are more.

1. ABC fraternity could petition the university IFC to come on campus. The IFC would agree and then allow ABC to begin colonization following the university's guidelines.

2. A local interest group may petition ABC, then the university IFC. Usually, the IFC waits for ABC to approve, then it gives approval. Colonization begins etc.

3. The IFC may decide that it wants an additional chapter and will ask ABC to colonize on campus. ABC accepts and then begins colonization.

4. Similar to number 3, the IFC may decide that it wants an additional chapter and send out feelers to all or various fraternities. ABC is selected and colonization begins.

Thus if there is interest, it is "easier" for a fraternity to colonize. And why fraternity men would look to doing so first.


Personally, I too would consider starting a new colony. However, I would also take advantage of, and participate in, a "Stray Greek" club. Frankly, all things being equal, I can not see a down side to doing both.

Well, I'm a gander in that position. There is nothing more I would I love than to bring my sorority to this campus, but it's not going to happen in the next nine months.

I totally understand. I was really directing my comment more toward those who felt that colonization was similar for fraternities and sororities. Guess I could have been a tad more clear.

I thought that IFC expansion did not require a unamious (sp?) vote to expand. Thus it would also make it easier to expand. If I'm wrong I totally apologize, I'm tired. :)

I think it'd be great if those 'stray greeks' were allowed to participate in recruitment. They'd be the best candidates for Recruitment Counselors! There's always a lot of stuff going on, they'd always be useful!

aj