Alcohol Poisoning & Death in perspective
 

In a study done by the federal goverment (NIH), they assessed data from 1996-1998 and found that the average yearly death toll among the American population with alcohol poisoning as the underlying cause was 317.

Of that 317, 2 percent were in the 21 and under age group.

And of that 2 percent, not all were college related. I say that because it didn't break down farther on that statistic.

80 percent of the deaths are male.

I think its important to put in perspective how rare dying fom alcohol poisoning is, especially in the demographic that we as Greeks are concerned.

I am also presenting this to the people that think letting someone sleep off their drunk is irresponsible, whether it looked like the person fell asleep, or they lay down and "passed out."

Its so statistically unlikely to happen that it is small wonder that people don't recognize the possibility of dying under certain conditions.

You have a much better chance of being struck by lightning at the party than killing yourself with alcohol. Which is amazing if you consider how hard some of us tried from time to time with hard drinking.

Anyway, just something to ponder.

PS. If you are unlucky enough that someone dies on your watch. Expect to lose your charter and be sued even if you followed all the normal rules. ITs just our culture.

But I know of this case and at least two others within the Greek world where people were taken to rooms and "checked" periodically and ended up dead.

Even three is too many.

Had their friends sought medical help -- or even stayed with them in a couple of cases, they would have lived.

DA, while it's easy to play out the "then what's" here, James has an excellent point. His point is that in about 99.99999% of cases, what these guys did would have been just fine and they'd still have their charter today.

It just so happened that lightening struck, and what was legitimately unexpected happened -- she died. I agree that they're not 100% to blame for this or even close to that.

I agree with James that if what was done by their HQ was only due to this incedent, that it seems like an unfair knee-jerk reaction to avoid liability. Not fair to the members in any way, shape or form.

The facts that James posted have some interesting facts.

But no matter how truthful the facts are, any time this happens within a GLO, it is a catastrophic situation.:(

When I met Mrs. DA, she was singing with a campus rock group as a Freshman.

She was also dating the lead singer.

She was the Prom Queen at her high school, a class officer, an area student council queen, Buckeye Girls State delegate, Outstanding Senior Bandsman, Musical Theater lead, commencement speaker and a number of other awards.

She grew up on a farm in a very small town.

Does all of this sound a little familiar?

She also had little or no experience with alcohol.

One night (actually just before we met) she went out to a party with her lead singer date and drank way too much and ended up with alcohol poisoning.

Thank goodness someone had the good sense to get her to the Health Center. I really don't know if it was the people she was drinking with or her dorm mates. In any event, she was lucky.

I'm not pointing the finger of blame at the Sigma Pi brothers. However I do want to point out that there are several potential mistakes here -- perhaps caused by inexperience -- that may have cost this young woman her life.

By the way, she still won't drink sloe gin to this day.

I think that even if the chances are low and very few people can reach the point of death, it's still no reason to drink. The damage is immense.

And you know what? I would love to think that Greeks really do hold certain values higher than others, otherwise it's for nothing. All those dues, all those events and hours of work are for nothing guys. All it takes is the fraternity/sorority to say, "hey listen you need to stop drinking. Come back another time".

-Rudey

Very good point.

I would not try to suggest that Greeks shouldn't drink.

I would say that alcohol should not be a reason for the Greek System or a chapters existance, though.

A lot of people have said that they can't find in their Ritual anything about drinking being a factor in their founding. If drinking were banned, it probably wouldn't violate any GLO's constitution or bylaws.

I'm having a drink as I write this -- but I won't get drunk. I'm not necessarily suggesting dry housing, but if it saves lives and/or saves the fraternity system as we know it, I certainly wouldn't object.

To me this is the other side of what I was talking about.

I honestly see the good in Greeks. I really do. No matter what is in the headline - hazing, death, whatever - I still think deep down these organizations are needed and have so much potential.

I expect my brothers to stop a girl from drinking if she's swaying. I expect them to tell a rush that he should go home if they need to. It's out of a sense of holding to those ideals and not because it's a rule or about some cold statistic that maybe 1 out of however many students who drinks will die. So to me, making a house dry is about approaching the situation through rules as opposed to ideals and values.

-Rudey

Re: Alcohol Poisoning & Death in perspective
 

So the question that looms in the air, at least for me, is of the 64 deaths that were in the 21 and under age group, how many were Greek related? I know we don't have the stats but I would sure be interested in knowing it.


Honestly, I think a lot of this would be avoided if there was better education about the symptoms of alcohol poisoning. I've heard so many times about people that were left alone because they were sleeping it off, or they passed out. What's the difference? How do you tell? When do you decide it's time to go to the ER?

Re: Re: Alcohol Poisoning & Death in perspective
 

6.4 deaths in the 21 and under group, not 64. Slight, but important difference. ;)

this is something that a lot of people must learn, especially the freshmen here at BU!

Freshmen everywhere.

Moderation really is the key. Education is another.

As for knowing the difference, someone pointed out in one of the threads that ANY time someone passes out, help should be called.

That seems extreme, but given the situation that we don't really know, if it saves someone's life, that's probably the right answer.

I know this year at BU has seen the most freshmen sent to the hospital for alcohol related events. It makes you wonder what's different about this class, is it the way alcohol and drugs were taught? I haven't seen any glaring reason why it's so out of control this year, except the fact they are out on a Saturday night starting at 9PM. I know we'd wait until at least 11PM. ;)

it seems to be happening a lot this year. one of my friends works in residence life at MIT and is in charge of three freshman dorms. she was telling me today that the freshman moved in 2 weeks ago and there have already been numerous incidents involving them and drinking.

When I was in college, a friend of mine had alcohol poisoning. Fortunately, someone had the good sense to call for help. She was taken to the hospital, treated, and released the next day. She was quite embarrassed, and the fraternity who hosted the party wanted to keep the story quiet. Looking back, it might have served the campus population if the story had been publicized as a cautionary tale. Of course, that couldn't happen because there would have been pretty extreme consequences for the woman and the fraternity involved.

I saw this and was shocked at how many of these listed are greek and am left wondering how many more non-greek ones are not listed because the "story" isn't as interesting.


Article Published: Wednesday, September 08, 2004
Alcohol deaths among college students

By DenverPost.com
A look at college-student deaths attributed to alcohol:

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May 2004 - California State University-Long Beach student and President's Scholar Jason Kirsinas dies after lapsing into a coma following a night of drinking on his 21st birthday.

March 2004 - Jason Reinhardt, a former student of Minnesota State University-Moorhead, dies of alcohol poisoning on his 21st birthday at the Phi Sigma Kappa house. Reinhardt has 16 drinks between midnight and 1 a.m. at a Moorhead, Minn., bar before going to the fraternity house with friends. His blood-alcohol content was 0.36.

March 2004 - University of California-Berkeley student, Steve Saucedo dies after an off-campus drinking contest with a group of friends.

December 2003 - South Dakota School of Mines and Technology student Tyler Loeb dies of alcohol poisoning from drinking while driving with friends looking for a Christmas tree in the Black Hills. An autopsy shows Loeb had a blood-alcohol content of 0.55 percent.

December 2003 - Pennsylvania York College sophomore Andrew Stephen Hayes dies of alcohol poisoning after attending a party with some members of the Sigma Delta Chi fraternity. His blood-alcohol level was 0.35.

October 2003 - Louisiana State University sophomore Corey James Domingue dies after drinking a bottle of rum in his off-campus apartment. His blood-alcohol content was .43.

October 2003 - North Dakota University of Mary football player Dusten Gailey dies of alcohol poisoning after consuming alcohol at a house party in Bismarck with friends.

September 2003 - Illinois Bradley University student Robert Schmalz dies after 12 hours of drinking at Phi Kappa Tau fraternity celebration for the end of fall pledge. His blood alcohol level was .33.

June 2003 - Friends find the body of University of Idaho student Nick Socorro Cannon in the off-campus apartment he rents for the summer from the Sigma Chi fraternity.

February, 2002 - University of Maryland-College Park freshman Daniel Reardon is found in a lounge at Phi Sigma Kappa house in cardiac arrest caused by excessive alcohol consumption. He dies after removal from life support.

October 2000 - California State University-Chico freshman Adrian Heideman dies from complications of alcohol poisoning after drinking a bottle of brandy at a Pi Kappa Phi fraternity pledge party.

April 2000 - University of California Davis senior David Thornton dies after downing 21 drinks to celebrate his 21st birthday.

November 1999 - Duke student Raheem Bath drinks too much, passes out and inhales his vomit which leads to a fatal bacterial infection in his lungs.

August 1999 - Texas A&M University student Michael Wagener dies of alcohol poisoning after celebrating his 21st birthday. His blood alcohol level was .48.

November 1998 - Michigan State junior Bradley McCue dies of alcohol poisoning after drinking to celebrate his 21st birthday. McCue drank 24 shots in less than two hours. His blood alcohol level was .44 percent.

September 1997 - Massachusetts Institute of Technology sophomore Scott Krueger dies of alcohol poisoning after binge drinking in the Phi Gamma Delta fraternity house where he pledged. His blood-alcohol level was .41.

August 1997 - Sigma Alpha Epsilon pledge Benjamin Wynne, 20, dies of alcohol poisoning at Louisiana State University. His alcohol-blood content was .588, equal to more than two dozen drinks.

February 1997 - Clarkson University freshman Binaya Oja,17, dies of asphyxiation after drinking beer and liquor with other new fraternity pledges until they vomit.

September 1995 - Matthew Garofalo dies after chugging from a bottle of whiskey during a Lambda Chi Alpha fraternity pledge ceremony at the University of Iowa.

October 1990 - Western Illinois University freshman Nicholas Haben dies of alcohol poisoning after being forced to drink "rookie juice" - a concoction of beer, Schnapps, coffee, tuna, eggs, and hot dogs - as part of his initiation into a lacrosse club.

February 1988 - Rutgers University Lambda Chi Alpha fraternity pledge James Callahan dies after being forced to drink "kamikazes," a potent vodka drink.

September 1986 - University of Texas at Austin freshman, Mark Seeberger, dies after drinking up to 20 ounces of rum during a Phi Kappa Psi hazing. He is found dead in his dormitory room the next day.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sources: AP and Nexis stories

Notice anything in common with all the deaths? Virtually all the deaths involved hard alcohol or shots. I didn't see any mention of any deaths as a result of just beer. No keg policies are a joke.

I think the no-keg policy isn't necessarily to stop people from drinking beer. I don't think it is at all. It's not a no-beer policy or a no-keg and no-can policy. I bet it has more to do with the problems associated with kegs. Prostitution isn't an act that hurts anyone really but it's usually illegal because of the problems associated with it; next thing you know there are crackhouses and high crimes area there as well. So probably some other high risk behavior is often attached to kegs.

-Rudey

No keg policies are about more than just quantity. It is also about drinks where it is much much easier to alter someone's drink. That could be date rape drugs, or even hard liquor.

I agree with the biggest issue being hard liquor. My college had three alcohol poisoning cases in my last semester and they were forced to ban carrying open handles on campus(though you could still carry mixed drinks not in original bottles) it was a pretty big deal. People were totally upset. But we really had a lot of people who would carry the handle aournd and just nix the idea of mixing the drink properly.

While all the cases we had were hard liquor,I still don't think that kegs are the best alternative. Beer comes in cans. :)

True but, where is the benefit? If you cant have kegs but can still have cans then the risk is still there. Everyone still drinks. I have been to parties where chapters bought cases by the pallet. At my sisters sorority they go to BYO parties with 500 people. Some people bring bottles of hard alcohol. I don't have any stats in front of me but I am sure the number of deaths has increased since the no keg policies were passed. Just look at the previous post. Most of the deaths involved hard alcohol, not draft beer. It is a higher risk to drink a bottle of hard alcohol vs 10 beers. Some of the high blood alcohol contents would have been impossible if the students were drinking draft beer. The kid from Michigan state drank 24 shots in 2 hours. If he was drinking beer he would have had to drink about 24, 12 oz beers or 288 oz of beer. That is like 2 gallons. He would have gained 18 lbs. Almost impossible. So where is the benefit?

Think higher risk of drink tampering.

Stronger likelyhood of larger quantities to be purchased. (ie 24 drinks in a case of cans..how many in a keg)

Kegs are also strongly linked to parties where people charge at the door, thus higher allowance of underage kids and illegal selling of beer.

I agree with Madmax. As far as tampering, aren't you supposed to give your drink supply to a brother at the bar anyway? What's to stop them from slipping something in it when they open it for you? Unless you want to bring cans (gross).

It also has to do with college students having more disposable income. We were all too broke to be buying mixed drinks and shots.

One potential reason for the "no common container" rule in Delt is that it would be more likely for the chapter to buy that large of a quantity than one or even several members.

A Delt chapter is prohibited from buying alcoholic beverages. It has to be BYOB or Third Party.

Or dry.

At least in theory.

By the way, one of the chapters I advised had won a Hugh Shields Award, our highest award for chapter excellence, and while the officers were at a conference accepting the award, some of the guys back at home had a party in one of the brothers apartment with a keg. They brought was what was left of the keg to the house -- were caught -- and lost their award.

We're pretty serious about it.

Come on people, lets get real.

We are Greek Social Organizations.

We are trying to keep drinking deaths down, risk managment. But while everyone laments the Numbers for Greeks dieing from alcohol, it is still a very small percentage, just more high profile.

When some on says they do not allow Alchoholic beverages at partys lives in a false world. Or even denys booze at their partys, hm, makes one wonder.

Dont as someone said that beer (Large Containers) are not a problem? They are right, it is the mixing of seperate Liquors, shooters and shots that can cause a lot of problems.

I have been in the Law Enforcement and Liquor Business to many years and it aint fun to see the after math of either.:(

When I went to college, my dad gave me some excellent advice. He said "I know you're going to drink, so if you do, stick to beer. You don't know what people put into mixed drinks" This was before date-rape drugs - he was just talking about alcohol content.

I followed his advice, and it served me well. Not that I never drank too much, but I didn't drink to the point of getting sick or putting myself in dangerous situations, and often found myself carrying home and/or cleaning up after friends who had tried the "Hairy Gorillas" or even innocuous-seeming Strawberry Daquiris. (Another bit of advice for the ladies: high heels + icy Northern winters + excessive drinking = disaster)

The whole "zero tolerance" concept is pointless - why not promote sensible drinking - allow 3.2 or regular beer and discourage hard liquor (including mixed drinks, shots, shooters, punch, etc.)

For those looking for ideas about how to recognize and take care of someone w/alcohol poisoning, I recommend checking out this organization. http://www.brad21.org/

It was founded after a Michigan State student lost his life as a result of alcohol poisoning. His mother and sister spoke at an educational event sponsored by my sorority and I was really impressed with their practical approach to this issue.

From CBS Denver...

Student Died After 11-Hour Drinking Spree

Sep 17, 2004 1:38 pm US/Mountain
FORT COLLINS, Colo. (AP) A 19-year-old college student drank the equivalent of up to 40 beers in an 11-hour spree before she was found dead of alcohol poisoning in a fraternity house, officials said Friday.

Samantha Spady, 19, of Beatrice, Neb., had a blood-alcohol level of 0.436, well above the 0.400 level considered potentially lethal, deputy coroner Dean Beers said.

Investigators said Spady and some companions started drinking beer but switched to straight shots of vodka. He said Spady drank the equivalent of 30 to 40 12-ounce beers or one-ounce shots of liquor.

Police issued citations to 19 men and women this week for alcohol-related offenses in their investigation into Spady's death.

Sound advice here.

A lot of people are hesitant to seek medical attention for someone who's had too much to drink, especially if the individual is underage, because they're afraid of the legal repercussions. MIT's medical center adopted an official policy shortly after Scott Krueger's death in 1997, whereby if any intoxicated underage student was brought in, the med center staff would notify the campus police, who would investigate how the student got the alcohol and cite those who had provided it. The policy was later rescinded out of fear that people wouldn't seek medical attention for their friends because they knew they'd be investigated.

The fact is that you can't be too careful. Even if death from alcohol poisoning is rare, it does happen. You don't want to have to live with the knowledge that if you had only called an ambulance, your friend might have lived.

Harvard has a good policy for dealing with that issue...if you accompany a drunk student to the infirmary or go there yourself, you get amnesty for the underage drinking, and you get the same privacy rights you would in any other medical situation (meaning, the infirmary doesn't give the patient's name to the disciplinary board).

I want to counter James' point to a certain extent. There are a lot of ways to look at those statistics that make them look a lot worse.

First of all, people who die of alcohol poisoning are a teeny fraction of those actually killed because they drank too much. Most alcohol-related deaths are caused by vomit asphyxiation, falls, getting hit by a car/train, etc. So although you may have a very small chance of being killed by alcohol poisoning, you have a pretty good chance of killing yourself with alcohol at that party.

Second, the Greek population we're talking about is overwhelmingly 18-24, healthy, white, educated, and middle-class...in other words, a group where death from any external cause is extremely rare. Even a very small number of alcohol-poisoning deaths may represent a meaningful share of overall deaths for this group.

Do university in the States not teach their students about alcohol poisioning? Alcohol training is a mandatory part of Student Orientation here - for all students regardless of age. I was taught the signs of alcohol poisioning the first day I was on campus. Full alcohol education (including the Bacchus position and poisoning avoidence) was provided later that week. For a university that strong refuses the "university as parent" role - the level of education we receive on alcohol is surprising.

When I read about these, I always get the sense it is ignorance that causes these deaths .... If only they "knew" better.

Legal or not, we almost never charge for underage drinking on campus. The campus police might give the person a talking to and ban them from the campus bars until a year after their legal, but that's it. Use it as a teaching moment and move on.

Is it even legal for a hospital to notify the school that a student checked in with alcohol poisoning? Doesn't that violate some kind of doctor patient confidentiality agreement?

It may have been ok in the past, but with the new HIPPA laws, I don't see how they could legally notify the school. But, if you went to student health service, then I imagine it's fair game.

Dee

By new Federal Regulations, they cannot let that record out to just anyone including just a college.

If anyone has been to a MDs office, they have to sign a waiver for conidentuality.

But, Law Enforcement works together, say, County, State and School Law Enforcement.

Dee, you are right, but this did not seem to be the case.

Not necessarily a hospital...but a school infirmary, yes, it can be legal, because students generally agree to certain behavior standards when they enroll, and there's often a lot of fine print in that agreement.

If a student is being transported from an on-campus location, then the school will know about it. Security and the dean of students/reslife office would know because it is in their 'area'. Ambulances don't just 'enter' a campus, at least as an RA, we had to call security and they called the fire/ambulance/police because we did not know the fire directions/addresses for the campus buildings.

Don't forget that parents will call reslife offices too and let them know. if that student has to miss class, they need a doctor's note and the dean's office is often alerted. Your medical privacy is really kind of a myth.

What about a hospital? Is it legal for a hospital to notify a school and provide the school with a patient's/student's medical information?

No. They can only give information to the people you list on the form you fill out. If you are a minor, they can give information to your parents. It might be fuzzy if it's a University hospital (like U of Mich Hospital or Vandy) and you attend that University.

That's what I figured but I think some hospitals like the local hospital near my school violate that. Maybe the laws vary by state. If a student, pledge/fraternity memger goes to the hospital the school always knows about it. They even have a breakdown of students admitted for alcohol. I have a probem with releasing the info because then the school can bust a greek organization.

I would challenge the assertion that you have a "pretty good chance killing yourself" from alcohol at a party. ITs still a lightning striking sort of thing. But I understand your point. If alcohol wee eliminated as a factor, those people would not have died.

I just don't know where that logic leads us. Do we ban alcohol from a college setting because 3 or 4 people will die from alcohol poisoning this year?

I dunno I used to be very much on the side of the 'it's not the greek system's fault' but now I'm changing my mind. I think schools should know when students are going to the hospital for alcohol related problems. I think that in order for the university/college to operate, and create a living community, these issues need to be known and addressed. And yes, I think that schools where Greeks/ Greek run events are the major cause of alcohol poisoning or severe drunkeness that we should be in trouble. No where, as pointed out previously, do our organizations require alcohol to function. Either we be more responsible, or we face the consequences.

I really do think that alcohol poisoning is totally preventable. And I think we need to stop bitching about it, or promoting programs that don't really work and just deal with the problems. If that means giving amnesty to those to help a friend, great, but bitching and moaning about how the hosptials are wrong, or the university/college was wrong is getting old. Yea there are cases where we are treated unfairly, but we keep giving them reason after reason.

/soapbox