Cheney on economic numbers: Don’t forget about eBay
 

Using Ebay as a source of economic growth or improvement is just stupid. What next, Coca Cola sold more coke this month the economy is better now.



Indicators measure the nation’s unemployment rate, consumer spending and other economic milestones, but Vice President Dick Cheney says it misses the hundreds of thousands who make money selling on eBay.

“That’s a source that didn’t even exist 10 years ago,” Cheney told an audience in Cincinnati on Thursday. “Four hundred thousand people make some money trading on eBay.”

San Jose, Calif.-based eBay Inc. is an Internet auction site where anyone can sell just about anything, including clothing, cell phones, jewelry, memorabilia, trinkets and automobiles.

Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards responded that Cheney’s comments show how “out of touch” he and President Bush are with the economy.

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“If we only included bake sales and how much money kids make at lemonade stands, this economy would really be cooking,” Edwards said in a statement.

http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?...s&c=31,1034852

There you go Rudey, here is a anti Bush article.
;)

You're a little bitch lol

OK I gotta go get a haircut and then run some errands. Remember I still have some tricks up my sleeve as well.

-Rudey

I love Edward's reply to this in a later statement.

"If we only included bake sales and how much money kids make at lemonade stands, this economy would really be cooking," John Edwards

Don't forget garage sales! Are you considered self-employed if you held a garage sale this year? Our unemployment numbers could look great if we counted those too....

I wonder if the homeless guys in their viaduct condos have wireless internet so they can sell their ratty weatherworn blankets on Ebay...

Why is it that Democrats hate small business owners?

I guess guys like Edwards can afford to hate guys struggling to make a living on their own because they got rich taking people's money through lawsuits.

Why is that?

The fact is that eBay is a huge business community. It is the embodiment of growth of sales and revenue on the internet. In fact if you're on ebay you would notice that large corporations like Toyota and IBM partner with it. The stock level of ebay aslone has increased. But I guess Democrats have to hate small businesses. Perhaps Edwards would like to have mentioned how strong sales are on the internet that Congress has to consider the issue of whether or not to tax internet sales?

Why is it that Democrats are so awful with understanding anything that has to do with the American economy and with numbers that they have to lie and create scenarios?

It's funny that Democrats and Kerry tried to paint the economy now as bad using a measure that would make the awful poor time of Carter seem like a rip roaring economy.

Why do Democrats lie?

-Rudey

Ah so Ebay is a major economic indicator now and we should base how well our economy is doing by how well ebay is doing. Forget the nation as a whole or companies as a whole.

Democrats do not hate small business. I don't believe Bush's tax cuts helped small business but helped big buisness. This is a opinion not stating as fact. If anyone can post figures proving or disproving the previous statement from a site with a good rep preferably non biased, that would be great. Corporations such as Wal-Mart kill small business.

I do not think Edward's statement was a stab at small business but a jab about how desperate the Bush campaign is digging to prove the economy is good despite the job market being still on the down side. Figures improve one month then go down the next.

And no I do not claim to be an expert on economics, its just how I feel about the situation.

10 Nobel economists endorse Kerry (click to read)

Democrats lie the same reason Republicans lie. For political and sometimes person gain.

"Corporations such as Wal-Mart kill small business."
 

"Corporations such as Wal-Mart kill small business."

Similarly, horseless carriages and Henry Ford killed the buggy whip industry.

Sam Walton's family has given more money to the GOP than any other bunch in recent years, and it has gotten them a lot of crap from Dem politicians and their lackeys. If they closed Perimeter Mall's 110 stores, tore it down, and replaced it with a single Wal-Mart store, the neighborhood Dem activists, the Dem politicians, and the unions would oppose it "because it would add too much traffic, harm children, and polute the streams."

Wal-Mart probably helps small businesses, since it employs a lot of people and pays a lot of wages. Small business which offer something these people want, and offer good service, likely prosper.

Re: "Corporations such as Wal-Mart kill small business."
 

If they tore down 110 stores more jobs would be lost than gained by building a Walmart. If you have read the paper or watched the news in the past few years Wal-mart has had trouble with paying people wages and making people clock out but still work. But hey you get some items for cheap and the Waltons donate to your party, how nice for you.

Now, now young man...you opened up on the topic, no need to run away and instead post a link to 10 economists. I mean it is a given that most economists strongly believe in lowering taxes to benefit the economy and thus Republicans usually get support from economists in terms of lowering taxes.

You, a Democrat claimed Ebay is a major economic indicator. Now if Democrats understood Economics they would understand that the internet is just another way to increase sales - eBay is a very large community to increase sales - hence the reason why large corporations sell on there.

So really, thank you for posting this news. We see that Republicans are trying to understand how the world is changing and how to increase the growth of American businesses while Democrats are just busy reacting (never being proactive) to Republicans and insulting Republicans.

-Rudey
--I think I'm very good at this game Brandon.

Re: Re: "Corporations such as Wal-Mart kill small business."
 

Now now, if you'd like to talk about Walmart there are other threads. No need to digress from how bad Democrats are for the economy by talking about Walmart.

-Rudey

I didn't claim that. I asked is it a major indicator in a sarcastic way. Touting ebay as proof the economy is better is a joke. So if ebay does well but other big industries don't, is the economy still good? Cheney was just reaching for "proof", that doesn't mean " Republicans are trying to understand how the world is changing and how to increase the growth of American businesses". The internet and ebay have been around a long time. The economy did quite well on it until the bubble burst. To ebay's credit they did survive the burst.

And yes and in my opinion lowering taxes can benefit corporations if people make enough to get the tax cuts and choose to spend the money they get to drive the economy. Bush's first tax cut backfired because most people saved their money because they were worried about the economy and their future.

I am not tring to sway your opinion. I am just stating my opinion. You may think its wrong, but honestly I doubt we will ever see eye to eye on certain issues. Economics is your field. You are going to believe what you see and deal with. You and I see things differently. Just because economics is your field doesn't mean everyone should agree with your views. That article I posted was just in reference that not all economist agree with you and I doubt those guys went to "bad schools".

Re: Re: Re: "Corporations such as Wal-Mart kill small business."
 

Did you mean how bad Democrats don't know the economy, or are you saying Democrats are for a better economy? Or did you mean something entirely different?

And we can thank Al Gore for that...

<running and hiding now, before Rudey starts throwing things at me>:D

Al Gore is an internet machine. The bubble burst without him.;) :p

That was sarcasim for the sensitive folks.

Now you're sweating.

The economy did well until the bubble burst? No, no. The economy did poorly. You see that was artificial and hence why it was a bubble. If it wasn't a bubble, the economy would have simply been doing well. now the economy corrected itself. Ebay is one of the few companies that emerged from the bubble and still grew as you even say. Ebay is a community that large international corporations sell through and it is much larger now than before. Cheney's message was on the internet and ebay as new outlets for sales. So we do appreciate your applause on this great Republican has shown one aspect of the economy's growth. Now let's look at this picture of how the economy has done better:

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/...4schul.750.gif

Increased growth of revenue from new sources is but one of many sources for the better economy. Look at that sonny.

So the question is, what is the motivation for Democrats wanting the economy to fail?

-Rudey

Re: Re: Re: Re: "Corporations such as Wal-Mart kill small business."
 

I'm talking about how Democrats don't know the economy and want it to do badly. Well they want us to do as well as we did during the Carter administration don't they? That was on a lovely little Kerry website wasn't it? You see that's something big and sad.

-Rudey

The whole issue was Cheney using Ebay as a source of the economy improving. If there was better sources like the automotive industry or something I am sure he would have. I am not argueing that ebay hasn't done well. Maybe their new campaign slogan should be "It's the e-bay sales, stupid".

Democrats don't want the economy to fail anymore than Bush wants the terrorist to win under his reign. Just because you disagree with Kerry's economic policy doesn't mean democrats want the economy to fail. What if Kerry is elected and the economy does better all 4 years he is in office. Give credit to Bush for setting the ground work? lol

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Corporations such as Wal-Mart kill small business."
 

Democrats want to see the economy do as well as it did under Clinton even if the bubble helped him out. Even without the bubble it probably was still better than the first Bush admin. But you probably say thats because the measures the first Bush made. We are just restating stuff that has been said by both sides for awhile now.

And I replied that ebay/the internet/alternative revenue sources are very helpful in indicating growth. Now I even posted a chart showing measured of the economy and unemployment...you seem to have glossed over that.

The difference is that I honestly think that some Democrats want bad things to happen to America so Bush is replaced. For example I talked with a girl who said she hoped Osama isn't found. Some want the economy not to show improving numbers, etc. That is just plain irresponsible on the part of Democrats.

-Rudey

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Corporations such as Wal-Mart kill small business."
 

"President Clinton inherited prosperity; President Clinton bequeathed recession."

Now let's look at the graph above before we reply.

-Rudey

We I can agree people might now want things to happen til after the election so Bush is voted out. I do think everyone wants Osama to be caught and the economy to get better. Thats politics for you. If roles were reversed some Republicans would be wishing the same things.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Corporations such as Wal-Mart kill small business."
 

Knew you would say that. ;) I called it. lol

A reason ebay is doing well in the current economy was just brought to me. If the economy was good people wouldn't have to sell their stuff on eBay to pay rent.
Also people buy on eBay because otherwise they would have to pay retail.

Try again.

-Rudey
--And why are we talking about why ebay is doing well?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Corporations such as Wal-Mart kill small business."
 

Carter basically single-handedly (well at least through the taxes he allowed to pass at the time) destroyed my family's oil business. For them to say that he helped the ecomony is pretty hilarious. I guess they count on people being stupid and having short memories.

Re: "Corporations such as Wal-Mart kill small business."
 

Actually it doesn't but I'll leave this blind statement alone for the most part. It does employ lots of people, in which they have to replace 50-60% each year. Most of the employees are only p/t workers that have no insurance benefits. Only 35-40% of Walmarts workers are actually covered by insurance. Their wages are crap.

Sure they offer a good service and pass on the savings to their customers but let's not forget the way they gouge their suppliers (and ultimately damage the company or run them out of business).

When a Walmart comes into a new town an average of 3-5 smaller stores (local chains, mom & pop stores) will close. That doesn't help small business. They also do very little for the smaller to medium sized businesses that supply to them.

This isn't a Republican or Democrat issue and I could care less as to how much Walmart donates to what party really. This is an issue about a horrible company which some people feel helps small businesses...

Back to the topic

Sure some businesses close, but how many new ones open as a result of the Wal-Mart's draw of foot traffic? Around here, when a Wal-Mart is opened, the area around is soon full of businesses being built. I'm sure it hurts some businesses, but it helps others. Are your figures based on a net loss/gain of businesses or just the fact that an average of 4-5 close?

It's a net loss/gain not simply on an average of closing. May I ask what types of businesses open around there soon after a Walmart is built?

I studied Walmart over a semester in my Management Analysis class and I rarely found data to support business openings around a Walmart.

This is small business related considering hoosier said that Walmart "probably helps small businesses." If we are talking about the creation of new business around a new Walmart facility ti almost always means another large business chain and not a small business.

Chains such as Home Depot, Kohls Department Store, Menards, Wendys and other gas station chains will open around Walmart areas. Again, these are all larger chains. They do not reflect the closing of small business that hoosier seems to think are helped by Walmart.

It gets more and more complex but many of the businesses that flourish around a Walmart do so because they have no direct competition with the store. Walmart does not sell home building supplies as Home Depot or Menards do. They do not sell fast food as Wendys does, etc....

A few fun facts:
Walmart is on target to capture 50% market share on consumer staples by the end of the decade.

Ktsnake you are in Oklahoma right? 30 supermarkets have closed in Oklahoma City since Walmart first entered the city.

Walmart has a yearly turnover rate of almost 50% for hourly workers.
Walmart controls 37% of U.S. food sales and 25% of U.S. drug sales.
(BusinessWeek October, 2003, - "Is Walmart too Powerful?")

I guess the point is Walmart is bad for small business and bad for many medium sized businesses that have a direct investment in the many items that Walmart sells.

Anyway, this isn't a thread about Walmart.

Ebay as a Economic indicator is idiotcy. Look only at one thing, what is for sale. Look on the other side of the coin, what is sold and by what few buy. Look at what is not sold and then make a decision. How in the heck would Cheney know about Ebay, when was the last time He bid or sold on Ebay?

Lets tax purchases on ebay so the coffers can be refilled.

States tried it and screwed up so many other tax laws that is was a clown gathering.

Wally World, just go to small towns where wally world went into and see what is there for the SMALL BUSINESS to sell of even open.

A different scenario than I am sure Sam Walton envisioned.

Wally World opens as a self contained store, ergo, the small back bone of the USA close:mad:

Example: I own a smal business, and Wally World will sell at the same price as I can buy from a small business wholesaler because of the buying power that they have.

How many Small Business Manufactutuers who were promised big contracts for their items and put all eggs in one basket and then They were put out of business when the COMPANY Changed to Out Sourcieng.

Find small town USA and see what life is really about.

Remember, Small Business is actually The Back Bone of the USA!

I like how people put words in people's mouths - and Republican or Democrat, these people should leave their parties and vote for Nader.

-Rudey

Yes, 30 supermarkets have closed. However, the ones that remain are of MUCH higher quality than before the superstore concept. It has also forced other chains to diversify. There are places besides Wal-Mart where they have smaller selection, smaller stores, lower overhead and therefore, cheaper stuff. We have more variety of food available at a lower price. I think it's a decent tradeoff.

The types of businesses that open around Wal-Marts off the top of my head have included bank branches, restaurants, fast food places, clothing stores, ALL of which provide jobs to people. Many of which are not just chains, but franchises which are really a type of small business.

The lowest prices on gas in the metro area can be found at the 7-11 across the street from the new Wal-Mart in Edmond, OK (about 30 minutes away from the OKC metro). As I type this, they are $1.58 the national average is currently $1.84. Other gas stations in this area charge as much as $1.83 for a gallon of gas. That is certainly not hurting the consumer.

I don't doubt that Wal Mart has its problems for society. But it's irresponsible to only cite those in making a case against it.

If you think it's a decent tradeoff I can't argue with that. OC isn't my community. But Walmart as a superstore doesn't always guarantee a superior quality in product.
The variety of food might be a decent tradeoff as of now but I don't see that in the future. You have other grocery chains dealing with the same suppliers that supply Walmart. Walmart demands the lowest prices from their suppliers and in turn find it very hard to sell at higher prices to other vendors because the consumers could simply go to Walmart and pay a lower price. I dunno though, there aren't even 30 grocery stores in the city I'm from and it's not all that little...

A franchise really isn't a type of small business though so I can't agree with you there. A person owns the franchise (maybe, many times franchised stores are actually block owned by other corporations) but even if a single individual owns one they still get marketing, advertising and the recognition of the name. When you franchise you pay for the name and the recognition really.

Again, I don't disagree that many of the larger corps that could open around a Walmart offer jobs to people. Like I've stated twice, it has nothing to do with the small business debate. Walmart isn't good for small business...now I can't say the same for large business.

Either way this debate is pointless now so I say we just agree to disagree....

see...this is what happens when you get coke heads in the white house

Rudith, you need a new graph with prettier colors. I also think there's something wrong with that graph but I'm too excited about balance of payments right now to figure out what.

In March 04, Bloomberg (Bloomberg Markets magazine but I really have no idea where you can find the magazine) carried a good article called Wal-mart's nasty labor war.

"During the past 20 years, Wal-mart shares have risen almost 43-fold compared with six-fold for the S&P 500".

Now here are some interesting stats"

Walmart's annual sales of $244.5 billion are almost as great as Switzerland's GDP.

Wal-Mart sold enough Ol-Roy multiflavored dog bisuits in one year to circle the earth twice.

Wal-Mart account for 25 percent of Clorox's sales and 18 percent of Procter & Gambles.

If Wal-Mart were a country, it would be China's eight-largest trading partnet, with $12 billion in imports (2002 only)

Wal-Mart is the largest private employer in the U.S., with 1.2 million workers.

Now I don't understand how you guys started talking about Wal-Mart, but maybe you'll want to read that article.

-Rudey