GreekChat.com Forums

GreekChat.com Forums (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/index.php)
-   Chit Chat (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/forumdisplay.php?f=185)
-   -   Kids' School Supplies (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=56746)

AGDee 09-11-2004 10:18 AM

Kids' School Supplies
 
I distinctly remember as a kid that all we took to school was facial tissue. I spent over $40 on my kids' school supplies to provide everything for them for this year. I didn't buy the Children's Dictionary yet. I want to know how common this is. My daughter's teacher specified we had to have folders in the following colors: orange, yellow, red, blue, green and purple. My son had to have yellow highlighters. The children's dictionary thing really blows my mind. Shouldn't a school have dictionaries for the kids to use? They used the school supplied ones in 2nd grade and my daughter didn't have to have one in 3rd grade. In total, we had to buy:

4 packs of looseleaf paper
12 folders
48 pencils
erasable pens
daughter needed highlighters in 3 colors
son needed only yellow highlighters
two rulers
two pairs of scissors
two packs of crayons
two packs of markers
pink erasers
4 glue sticks
children's dictionary
LIQUID SOAP!

I thought my taxes were paying for things like soap. I swear our teachers had a classroom supply of markers, crayons, etc.

Can some teachers provide any insight? Is this common?

Dee

carnation 09-11-2004 10:37 AM

Oh, don't even get me going on how mad this makes me. We have spent more and more on the kids' school supplies every year. Plus we found out that the "2 of everything" deal at our kids' elementary goes to give supplies to children who don't have any. Now on the one hand this sounds nice but on the other hand, donating it involuntarily really ticks me off. At least be up front and ask people to donate supplies for the less fortunate students (and I think they would).

Munchkin03 09-11-2004 10:39 AM

WTF?!

Let me talk to my niece, who just started 3rd grade. I don't think they had to provide much to the class other than Kleenex and anti-bacterial soap, and those were their personal supplies--not to be donated to the class.

Are these requirements district-wide, school-wide, or just specific to that teacher?

AXO_MOM_3 09-11-2004 10:51 AM

I spent close to $120.00 by the time I bought all the supplies for my two older daughters. Let's see, in addition to most of the items on your list we had to buy a box of gallon sized zip lock baggies, a box of small baggies, tissue, hand wipes, candy (for goodies), "treasure box" items from the dollar store, colored pencils, art smocks, sheet protectors, a compas, marble composition books and I can't remember what else at the moment. Put new lunch boxes, and bookbags on the list too! Of course new tennis shoes were on the list since my children run around in sandals or barefoot most of the summer!

I'd love some enlightenment for a teacher too! What is up with the baggies? I know my child does not go through 20 baggies a year to carry home her homework. She might go through five tops. I have yet to see one of the small baggies. Am I supplementing the rest of the class?

Also, I've found that most teachers only want the basic color of everything. We found some really cute composition books that were various colors (something different from the basic black and white) and the teacher sent them back home and told us she could not use them. Same thing with the fun (NON-YELLOW) pencils that we bought. For my older daughter, last year we bought some really pretty folders that met the criteria of pockets and rivets, and she put them in the "community chest" and other kids ended up using them. Do we all have to be just alike in schools these days or what?

PM_Mama00 09-11-2004 11:37 AM

Hmmm I remember back in the day when I had cute mechanical pencils, folders with designs on them.... and all we had to donate to the class was a box of tissues and that was for extra credit!

WTF is it with donating for other children? I'm sorry, I'm all for helping out other people but what does a little package of yellow #2 pencils cost? Or a .49 folder?

aephi alum 09-11-2004 12:06 PM

Liquid soap? :confused:

That list isn't too dissimilar from what I had to have when I was in elementary school 20ish years ago - although we had to have composition books, not looseleaf. But our school supplies were ours, not donated to some community chest.

kafromTN 09-11-2004 12:21 PM

I remember reading an opinion piece about this issue and the writer was talking about how it is the government's attempt to create a socialistic society. His argument was about how the schools force the people who can afford the supplies to buy extras to put into the community chest to redistribute to those who can't afford it. The writer was comparing it to taxes, those who can afford to pay more put into the community chest, by way of the government, and it is redistributed to those less fortunate.

It's not my opinion, just a different take on things.


-Mark

carnation 09-11-2004 12:26 PM

Here's how I get around the community chest idea: no matter what they say, I put my kids' names in big fat letters in an obvious place on said items. Of course, no other child will want those item and my child gets them back.

It may seem like a little issue but if we had a fun time shopping for, say, a pink notebook or an animal print folder, I don't want anybody else reaping the benefits of our search.

WhiteDaisy128 09-11-2004 12:44 PM

Okay, hi, I'm a 5th grade teacher. Do you want to know HOW MUCH MONEY we have to spend out of OUR OWN pockets to put supplies in the classroom. I know it'd be nice if the school could supply everything we need, but they don't. We get limited ammounts of tissues (and really crapy ones) - and other school supplies we aren't even given. On top of all of that, MOST of the supplies we buy for our walls, the kids desks, our folders, etc. cost us money.

I don't think it's asking too much to have the parents provide some stuff. I have a required list for my students - they have to buy 2 of almost everything (2 colored pencil packets, 2 rulers - with inches and mm, 2 scissors, 2 packs of sharpies, etc.) - one gets donated to the classroom and one the students keep at their desks...I can not tell you how often EVERY DAY the students make use of our classroom collection of supplies. I also have a wish list of things that I'd like, but don't require. Almost every parent provides something off this list (this list includes: packages of card stock paper, large index cards, film - or film developing, hard candies, colored sharpies, etc.).

When we only get $23,000-25,000 a year (in most states) for a job that is 9 months straight of 11-12 hour days, is it too much to ask YOU to spend $100 on your child's education?

Lord knows we spend more than that on their education.

:rolleyes:

Sorry if this all sounds mean...but this sort of thing irks me to no end. I'm so thankful that I have parents that are so willing to help out in the classroom and in the school.

DeltAlum 09-11-2004 12:46 PM

I remember shopping for school supplies when I was in school, and we bought stuff (different every year, naturally) for all three of our kids all the way through K-12.

If they took specialized classes, there were additional items to purchase. All of that, plus athletic fees, parking permits, etc. The older they got, the more it cost.

Liquid soap is a new one, though, I suppose it could be a health/sanitary issue rather than using a common soap bar in restrooms. Those can be pretty gross.

We all pay taxes for our schools and other services, but consider this: How many school mill and tax levies pass in your area? In ours, most did -- but people still wanted more from the school systems. Many of the other systems in our area passed maybe one out of five levies.

It's like any other public entity. How to you expand (or even maintain) services without additional funds?

Heck, there's another thread here on GC about teachers who pay for much of their classroom stuff out of their own pockets. Mrs. DA taught high school for several years -- both public and parochial. It's a tough job.

My late father-in-law and his dad were school board members for years, and nothing frustrated him more than state legislatures who mandated programs for many things, but provided no funds.

It really does put the systems in a very tough position.

cash78mere 09-11-2004 01:28 PM

i am a teacher and think that list sounds just fine.

we are not supplied with soap. if you want your child to have clean hands, either the parents or i have to buy it. folders need to be color coordinated because each color is for a different subject, not because we want everyone to be the same. my classroom has color-coded books and folders and it is a great system. i made each child that brought in a "fancy" folder to bring it home because my list clearly stated the colors needed. tissues are not supplied and a class of 25 students goes through over 30 boxes a year. trust me.

and yes, my kids share all their glue, pencils etc. not only does it help teach manners, but kids lose and steal stuff all the time. so if little johnny loses his glue, he can take one from the "community chest" as you call it to replace it. if not, his mom would have to go out and buy another one.

you might think that a teacher should have to supply tissues, glue, paper, etc. but we DON'T. i spend at least $500 EACH YEAR buying needed supplies and decorations as it is. i'm not going to buy soap. parents can and should. teachers do not decide where tax money is spent. if you have issues with it, contact your board of ed.

my school won't even give me envelopes! i have to buy my own.

it really irritates me when parents think teachers are out to get them. why would we ask for something if your CHILD doesn't need it? do you think we stockpile boxes of tissues for our own personal use???

and i CLEARLY remember buying most of the same supplies when i was a child. i NEVER just brought a box of tissues. that's ridiculous. the only supply that teachers get is what they buy on their own or what the kids bring in. that's it.

AGDee 09-11-2004 01:38 PM

I'm not ripping on the teachers, but the system as a whole. I AM paying a HUGE amount in taxes to support the schools and we did pass our last bond issue. In fact, since my ex-husband and I both own homes in this district, we're paying twice as much as everyone else!

I ended up doing a search on school supplies list on Google and came up with some wild stuff, far worse than my kids' lists! I have seen lists though that require ELMER's glue specifically or Ziplock bags specifically. Fiskars scissors! I use Fiskars scissors for my sewing scissors, why would a kid need them in school for their collages? What's wrong with generics? I don't feel so bad after seeing some other lists. Why do folders have to be a specific color? We went to five stores before we found a purple folder. My daughter is bright enough to figure out which folder is her math folder without color coding it. My son isn't allowed to use the sturdy, heavy duty folder I bought as his homework folder because it isn't yellow. The kid goes through about 8 homework folders a year because he's a rough and tumble boy. Some of it just seems overly controlling. If we have to have certain colors, then why not have the school store sell those colors?

I'm feeling irritable with the school in general because we have a new principal who just seems to be a control freak. On day one, we received a whole list of new rules, most of which don't seem to be useful or helpful. She's just stating "I am in control".

I still think the school should provide dictionaries and soap.

I would probably feel a little less angry if they let us know in advance instead of sending a list home on the first day of school that says "Supplies must be brought in by September 8th" when school started on the 7th. Give me the list in June so I can budget for it and look for things on sale! I have no problem with donations. In fact, I donated a bunch of Leap Frog stuff when they wanted those for the lower el. When they have the Scholastic Book Fair, the teachers make wish lists and you can buy a book for the classroom if you want.. I always do that too. I send in food for the parties and I go on as many field trips as I can afford to.

It just seems like you get bombarded the minute you walk in the door. Here's the school supply list, have everything by tomorrow. Oh, and by the way, picture day is September 21st and you have to pay that day, minimum package is $30. And the school fund raiser starts next week. And the field trip next week is $14, please have the money by Friday. And, the fifth grade trip this year is only $500.00. First payment is due Oct. 1st. I don't think kids really need to go on $500 field trips in 5th grade. I went to Mexico for that in 12th grade after fundraising for 3 years to do it!

I need to get involved in the school board I think.. I need to know where these tax dollars are going.

Dee

PS. I'm in Michigan, where our teachers are paid higher than most states, thanks to the unions. I'm all for paying teachers well.

aephi alum 09-11-2004 01:54 PM

I found a listing online for what elementary-school children in my district's public schools are required to have. It varies slightly by grade, but the basics are safety scissors, an eraser, a clipboard, markers, a pen, crayons, pencils, composition books, glue, a 3-ring binder, tissues, math flash cards, and a box to keep everything in. From the itemized list, it doesn't appear that any items would go into a community chest (they only call for 1 pair of scissors, 1 eraser, etc).

The PTO sells all the required supplies as a kit for around $25 (it varies slightly from grade to grade). Apparently they order in bulk then pass the savings along to parents. Parents get a break and kids have exactly what they need.

The mandatory donation idea rubs me the wrong way, though. The wish list is a good idea - yes, you'll get cheapskates who won't donate if it isn't required, but you'll also get some generous parents, and the teacher will probably get a wider variety of stuff needed for the classroom (white-board markers, card stock, things to decorate bulletin boards with, etc. rather than 30 boxes of pencils).

I still don't get the soap thing. When I was in elem. school, all bathrooms had liquid soap dispensers that were kept stocked (most of the time, anyway!) Have our school budgets gotten so slim that we're cutting soap??

AGDee 09-11-2004 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aephi alum

The PTO sells all the required supplies as a kit for around $25 (it varies slightly from grade to grade). Apparently they order in bulk then pass the savings along to parents. Parents get a break and kids have exactly what they need.


THAT is an awesome idea and I'd take advantage of that for sure!

Peaches-n-Cream 09-11-2004 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aephi alum
Liquid soap? :confused:

That list isn't too dissimilar from what I had to have when I was in elementary school 20ish years ago - although we had to have composition books, not looseleaf. But our school supplies were ours, not donated to some community chest.

My list was also very similar except for the liquid soap. I attended Catholic and private school, and they have even less money than public schools. We didn't have to provide for a community chest as far as I recall. We had to buy pens, pencils, crayons, a compass, erasers, a calculator, notebooks, a dictionary, a package of looseleaf paper, folders, and a binder for ourselves. These supplies changed depending on the grade I was in.

I completely understand that teachers cannot afford and should not be expected to purchase all of these supplies for their students and their classrooms.

I think that Staples or another store has some type of program where they donate cash back to a school district. Maybe that could help. I don't know the details, but I remember seeing some commercials about that.

PM_Mama00 09-11-2004 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aephi alum
I found a listing online for what elementary-school children in my district's public schools are required to have. It varies slightly by grade, but the basics are safety scissors, an eraser, a clipboard, markers, a pen, crayons, pencils, composition books, glue, a 3-ring binder, tissues, math flash cards, and a box to keep everything in. From the itemized list, it doesn't appear that any items would go into a community chest (they only call for 1 pair of scissors, 1 eraser, etc).

The PTO sells all the required supplies as a kit for around $25 (it varies slightly from grade to grade). Apparently they order in bulk then pass the savings along to parents. Parents get a break and kids have exactly what they need.

The mandatory donation idea rubs me the wrong way, though. The wish list is a good idea - yes, you'll get cheapskates who won't donate if it isn't required, but you'll also get some generous parents, and the teacher will probably get a wider variety of stuff needed for the classroom (white-board markers, card stock, things to decorate bulletin boards with, etc. rather than 30 boxes of pencils).

I still don't get the soap thing. When I was in elem. school, all bathrooms had liquid soap dispensers that were kept stocked (most of the time, anyway!) Have our school budgets gotten so slim that we're cutting soap??

Your first paragraph I agree with.

And it's nto a hit at teachers. I guess what I don't understand is that all this stuff was provided by teh school when I was in elementary. Maybe I just went to a really good school, but we were never asked to buy scissors and all that. And dictionaries were already in the classroom.

And in kindergarten when our teacher accidentally left our crayons on the heater and they all melted, the school provided more.

winnieb 09-11-2004 03:19 PM

Dee, I understand where you are coming from. My son's list includes the basic items-- but we also must provide Ziploc bags (quart size), Fiskar scissors, Elmers glue, dry erase markers, and other items including Purell.

The brands I listed are specific and REQUIRED. As far as the Fiskar scissors--we are even given the model number they MUST have. And the dry erase markers--well there isn't a white board in the room!!--not one I saw. And while I would by Fiskars for me, not for my son who lost 2 pairs last year in kindergarten--each time I was senta note to buy a new pair for the next day.

I understand that teachers aren't paid well, which is wrong! But I also know teachers get to use what they spend in their classrooms as a tax deduction. The money I spend and donate is not a deduction for me. I also know I spend LOTS on tax money for my child's education.

I have no issues giving donations and helping in the classroom--I am happy to do so. But the demand on parents is getting unreal. My son came home on the second day of school with the Entertainment Book fundraiser. We sold 6 @$20/each. There will be 2 or 3 more fundraisers this year. I also received the envelope to send $10 back to the class for the holiday parties, which I will also get a list of required items to send at the time of the party. I will buy off of the teacher wish list at the book fair. School pics are on Tuesday, we got the flyer on Friday due back on Monday with my $25 for the small package. And we will have pics in February too. And finally in the backpack this week we received the "snack list" . Approx once a month each child is assigned a snack day and I will send snacks for the entire class.

And my final vent-- Teacher Appriecation Week. I would prefer to buy the teacher a gift of my choosing. The PTA,last year, assigned a different theme each day.... flower day, sweet day, relaxation day, candle day, etc. We were also told to send the same present for the PE, art, music, computer teachers, librarians and lunch ladies--- what in the heck--- beyond the money--- why would the PE teacher want a candle from each kid in the school-- 400 candles would be insane!!!! :)

I don't mind hellping or giving--it is not the teachers job to buy everything--but my tax money should cover that basic stuff like soap!

-wendi

carnation 09-11-2004 03:40 PM

Co-sign on what alphagam-alum said! I've had kids in the public schools for 17 years now and I've watched the supply list balloon over the years--and then double with the involuntary donation bit. And the fundraisers--well, we don't do them anymore. Too often we've seen kids go out and bust their butts selling cheap trinkets and then the PTA uses it for something stupid like a new couch for the teachers' lounge when the old one was just fine.

Last week a middle school teacher wrote for donations so she could do all these fancy labs in her class. My husband, a science teacher in a parochial middle school,was so mad that he almost choked. He can only dream of the things she wanted.

The double school supplies list still makes me mad. When my children come home with their leftover school supplies at the end of the year, they always have a somewhat used box of crayons that was their first one and they say the teacher never gave them back the second one. Ditto on the second pack of construction paper, box of pencils, etc. This year we only sent one set of supplies and so did a bunch of other parents; in this school, there are very few children in need and the whole idea is ridiculous. We'll see what happens.

cutiepatootie 09-11-2004 03:45 PM

I agree with Carnation......... This was my sons first yr in Kindegarten and the buy two issue makes me mad. If they are asking for 2 of everything for the reason of supplying the kid that doesn't have anything well than come out and say it dont be sneaky and underhanded about it and cover it up and say otherwise.

I understand the school and the minimal budgets they work with and what teachers have to pay out ........but i want to know where our taxes go to and heck even better this is california the LOTTO was to help fund schools


My own opinion now is i should not have to supply for others....but come on we all work and we all have our own monthly budgets to work with and to spend that extra money and to give it away more less is not right. I have taken a big ole black magic marker and marked my son's name on everything so it won't get donated.....i pay taxes and i pay for his school supplies So why do we have to shell out.


Tell me what does the PTA do for the schools? aren't they there to help with raising funds for the classroom?

sugar and spice 09-11-2004 04:24 PM

I'm not a teacher, but I'm on my way, and I have to agree with WhiteDaisy. Spending an extra five -- or even twenty -- bucks on school supplies is not going to make that big of a difference to MOST people on this board, but if the teachers have to cover it out of pocket for all the kids in their classes, it's going to make a big difference for them. Furthermore, the alternative is that your child's education is going to suffer. If the kids are going to do a project that involves colored pencils, and not all the kids have colored pencils (and your kid's not sharing!), the project won't happen or will take much longer than it needs to.

It surprises me that, after all the noise made about how our school systems don't even get enough tax money to cover basic supplies, people are still shocked that they can't just give out a pair of scissors and a glue stick to every child walking through the doors.

That said, I think parents should be made aware if their supplies are going to students other than their children. Maybe a compromise would be that, instead of forcing each child to buy two of everything, you could say that one was mandatory (to go towards the "community chest") and one was optional (if you wanted the children to have their own personal supplies.

BUT I disagree with you that say "Why do they have to trick us into donating? I think most people would donate if they made it clear that the supplies were going to kids who needed them." Since that's the way things have been run in the past, obviously it HASN'T worked and they haven't been getting enough donations or things would still be run that way.

It seems to me that the majority of teachers (maybe not so much the ones demanded brand #ABC123 of Fiskars scissors ;) ) are just doing what they need to do to keep doing their job at the level they're supposed to be teaching at.

Rudey 09-11-2004 04:51 PM

Most teachers are fascists who want to force kids and their parents to hurt and buy things they don't need. Get your kid some paper, a ruler, pen/pencil, some glue, scissors and that's it. When they join a sport or club, then it might be different. Tell the teachers to stop being fascists!

-Rudey

lonestaradpi 09-11-2004 05:12 PM

I'm having lots of mixed, heated feelings on this. So I hope that I make sense. Here's my background and where I'm coming from. I am a teacher. This is my 7th year teaching. I teach in a low socioeconomic school. Every year I've been here,we have either been a targeted or full on Title 1 school.

I'm amazed at some of your comments and likewise by some of the crap on the school lists. First of all, to save $$, don't buy the pictures from the school. They are a ripoff. Go to Target or somewhere else that does cheap, decent pictures. If you don't like the policies of PTA, get on the board and make a difference. Or, even more fun and tons of crap, run for your school district's board! However, I don't think I'd wish that nightmare on my worst enemy!!

I think that some of the junk on the school lists are so stupid. Bad teachers! We give a list of supplies out in May before we go on summer vacation. I can't believe some schools are so inconsiderate that they give you one day to get all the stuff!! We may have Fiskars as a recomendation on the list, but we are just happy to have scissors brought in! I'm happy to get a child with a complete list, and we do not provide extras for the other kids. In my class, the children learn fast that my class will be like there real world. If you bring in new crayons, you will use new crayons. If you don't bring in crayons, you can borrow some out of the big left over bucket in the room. If you don't bring in scissors, you may borrow a pair of mine, only for the project, and it has my name on them. I have even provided school clothes for children in my class b/c they only have one shirt at home and they are embarassed by wearing the same shirt eveyday.

Let me just talk for a minute about some of the stuff on the lists.
Plastic baggies: I do use these all the time. The are used to keep our flash cards, our math fact cards, to keep our school supplies (because we don't have those on our list), to send home lost teeth, and to keep lunch $ in.
Soap/Purell: My school provides soap in the restrooms, but it is crap. I can only think that teachers use it to help keep the kiddos hands truly clean so they won't get even more illnesses and bring them home to their parents.
Treats for treasure chest: That is the teacher's responsibility. I wouldn't even begin to ask my parents to supply treats for the children! Amazing!
Candy for rewards: What??? That's crazy! We aren't supposed to give any food to the children.
Oh, as far as the tax deduction. No, not really. I spend over $500 a year in stuff for my class or the children. I am only allowed to use $250 of that for taxes. And it is taken off of the top, not a credit. Merely a drop in the bucket.

And I'll end this tirade with Teacher Appreciation Week. In seven years of teaching, I have had one parent actually recognize this. Our PTO (not PTA b/c that has national dues associated with it and they can't afford it) provides a small gift for us and a meal during that week. We are so grateful for that.

In closing, some teachers need to see what it is like in other parts for the country and be happy with the minimum. BAd teachers! Please know that not all teachers are like that. Please don't pigeon hole all of us. And you have a choice. I'm not a parent b/c I don't want to have to put up with all the shit of raising my own, that is my choice. I have made a choice not to have children. I wish you all the best of luck who have chosen to raise children, as you already have learned, it is not easy!

aephi alum 09-11-2004 05:20 PM

Question for the parents: What happens if you don't supply your kids with exactly what the teacher has requested? Are the kids penalized for having only two pencils if the teacher asked for four? It's not like they're going to be writing with all four pencils at the same time!

Carnation, were your kids penalized for "being unprepared" because they didn't have a second set of supplies for the community chest, even though they had what they needed for themselves? Wendi, was your son penalized if he didn't show up with exactly the right model of Fiskars scissors the very day after losing them?

Another question: On my school district's website, parents are warned that there are items not included in the kits that they will need to buy over the course of the school year - mainly replacement pencils, crayons, glue, etc. as they are used up. The website says to expect to provide your children with 2-4 pencils PER WEEK. Is this realistic?? Children in this age group are not required to have pens, which implies that all assignments are done in pencil - but even so!

winnieb 09-11-2004 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aephi alum
Wendi, was your son penalized if he didn't show up with exactly the right model of Fiskars scissors the very day after losing them?


My son was not "penalized" in the true sense of the word-- but if he doesn't have the scissors the next day- he will come home and say "mom, we need my scissors tonight-- i had to borrow and they don't work right" We went and bought them that night.

As far as using 4 or 5 pencils a day-- I doubt that. Just like I questioned the 4 boxes of crayons that my son needs. I asked my son about that--all the crayons were dumped into a bucket--the bucket was placed in the middle of the seating pod. I know I would hate that--as I don't like a dull tipped crayon or marker, and I never have.

I truly don't mind helping if someone needs it--- but being demanding with brands, timeframes, and everything else is getting out of control.

Peaches-n-Cream 09-11-2004 06:02 PM

Your son needed four boxes of crayons? That's crazy. I can understand two boxes per child with one box for your child's personal use and the second for the community chest. I couldn't imagine going through four boxes of crayons in one school year. That seems quite excessive.

I really think that you should write a letter to the teacher and principal complaining because this list of mandatory supplies just seems ridiculous. Parents have a budget, and schools need to respect that.

AOIIalum 09-11-2004 06:26 PM

As a parent of 3 school aged boys, I'll start by saying the Fiskars brand holds up extremely well. We're using a pair now that's on year 3, and still going strong.

I'm appalled to read that some schools ask for doubles of everything and donate the extras. That is simply rude. There is also absolutely no reason to not release school supply lists in the fall, or for students moving into intermediate/middle/high school to have the lists available when homeroom or team assignments are posted. There is NOTHING worse than living in a smaller town and having 800+ kids get their supply list and only having 3 local options to get it all in one night.

My biggest recommendation is to stock up on the "basics" of school supplies when you see them on sale. Target, Walmart, Kmart, etc. start running school supplies in their sale ads in July around here. Pencils, pens (including red), highlighters, dry erase markers, (our elementary has dry erase wall boards instead of chalkboards), folders, etc. If you're lucky enough to get the unused school supplies sent home at the end of the year, go through ALL of that stuff ASAP. One year I got enough in "new" supplies home that I probably could have bought a lot less for the following fall. Keep all of those supplies in a designated spot, make sure they're well labelled, and make a note on your July/August calendar so you remember where you stashed it.

I somehow ended up with an abundance of 1-subject notebooks (bought a pile for a dime each!), pens & Pencils, composition books (got those at .45 each, what a bargain!) after we got the middle school supply lists. They'll get used eventually :D

PS--My big gripe is calculators! We were told last year that our middle school furnished graphing calculators for our 7th grade darlings who were taking pre-Algebra, and we wouldn't have to purchase a calculator while they were in middle school. Fast forward to this year. The high school changed math textbooks, so the darlings taking HS algebra in 8th grade had to purchase a new calculator for the following day! Of course, no parents or local retailers were ready for the run on this particular make and model of calculator. I had to actually order it through work to be guaranteed my darling had his calculator by the end of the week--AND had to send a note so he wouldn't get docked grade points for needing 3 days to get the stupid calculator. Thankfully it was only a scientific calculator and not the graphing, because once he's at the HS next year he'll need the graphing type. GRRRR!

winnieb 09-11-2004 07:19 PM

AOII Alum docking points for not having the calculator the next day is crazy--- I am sure alot of parents couldn't go out and drop the money on the calculator---although it is a good thing it wasn't the graphing calculator.
I do realize that the fiskars are a good investment-- but my son misplaces his several times a year. And I would love to be able to use the "unused" supplies--but nothing is returned to us. My son claims the teacher keeps all the supplies for the following year.

WhiteDaisy128 09-11-2004 07:29 PM

Just a heads up...I know all of your kids are absolutely perfect and would never forget to tell you something...but sometimes kids know WEEKS in advance that they will need something, but they don't tell/ask their parents (kid's responsibility) until the "night before."

This whole thread makes me mad, so I'm going to stop typing now.

valkyrie 09-11-2004 07:44 PM

No really, I don't get it. Don't you expect to have to buy school supplies when you have kids? Isn't that just a given? If you feel a teacher is making unreasonable demands in terms of how much of everything your kid has to bring or what particular brand something should be, can't you just go to the teacher and explain your feelings and then buy whatever the hell you want?

It doesn't seem that complicated. It's a parent's job to send his or her children to school prepared to learn, ready with the supplies needed to do what's required in class. It's not the teacher's fault that the school doesn't provide what the children need, nor is it the teacher's job to provide anything because parents don't feel that they should have to buy stuff. It's the parents' responsibility to provide for the children, period.

ETA: I do agree that requiring certain color folders is pretty ridiculous. Kids should be able to learn which folder is for which subject no matter what color it is.

Munchkin03 09-11-2004 07:45 PM

Stand down! It's not that deep...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by WhiteDaisy128
I'm so thankful that I have parents that are so willing to help out in the classroom and in the school.
No one's saying that parents aren't helping out, yo. I'm not sure if these requirements are district-wide, school-wide, or teacher-specific. If it's district or school-wide, then there's probably budget issues. If it's teacher-specific (like having 4 different colors of highlighters, that's just excessive. Here in grad school, my yellow highlighter is juuuust fine.

Also, in any job, you'll often have to put your own money towards work-related expenses. I'm not whining about having to buy a $900 copy of Quark XPress...it's called professional development, baby.

Munchkin03 09-11-2004 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by valkyrie
It's not the teacher's fault that the school doesn't provide what the children need, nor is it the teacher's job to provide anything because parents don't feel that they should have to buy stuff. It's the parents' responsibility to provide for the children, period.

But, don't you think it's a little odd that parents have to provide two of everything, in some cases, for students whose parents can't provide? If that's true...it bothers me.

I guess it depends on the quality and funding of the school systems involved.

AGDee 09-11-2004 07:53 PM

My kids have definitely done the "let me know the night before" thing, especially when it is that they volunteered me to bake cupcakes and I have no cupcake cups in the house. They hear about it then.

As I had said, I was not blasting the teachers. I was trying to find out if this was just our school/district, or if it was commmon. Apparently it's common. I see this more as a school district problem than anything. And, it has motivated me to get more involved in the school politics. My time is very limited and I have tried to only volunteer in capacities that allow me to spend the time directly with my kids (cub scout leader, girl scouts, soccer coach, etc.), but I definitely think that some of the items being requested should be the school's responsibility. Every bathroom in every public place or private business has soap in it. This is a basic thing. This should be true in the schools too. I am suprised that teachers themselves aren't infuriated about that. That is definitely not the teacher's fault, it is the district. I know that my school district receives $7900 per child for the year. I realize there are overhead expenses, but it seems that maybe $40 of that could be spent on supplies. I never said the teachers should be buying that stuff. I think if I were a teacher, I'd push to put soap for every classroom in the union contract!

I just did some figuring...

$7900 per student x 25 students per class= 197,500 per classroom.
Teacher's salary + benefits (usually add 19% of salary for benefits)= (average, based on Master's Degreed teachers in Michigan)=$75,000
If they are providing nothing but toilet paper and dry erase markers/erasers to a classroom, then they can't be spending more than $300 a year on supplies.

That leaves $122,200 per classroom per year x 20 classrooms per school = 2,444,000. And that leads to my questions.. where is this money going???? I'm just going to have to find out.

Dee

ETA: The more I read responses, the more I think teachers and parents should UNITE against whoever does the school budgets and say "HEY! Buy paper, pencils and SOAP, this is a school!"

Also, I guess having to buy supplies surprises me, because I never had to have supplies in elementary school. I remember buying notebooks and folders in high school, but not in elementary. We used those big fat pencils and the paper with the huge lines and used community crayons and shared scissors. And we used that paste that you had to apply with a stick. Remember that stuff? Some kids ate it. And, I don't complain about the request for glue sticks, I wouldn't want kids using the gooey oozy elmer's if I were a teacher.

GeekyPenguin 09-11-2004 08:00 PM

Maybe it's because I went to a Catholic school with tuition out the wazoo until junior high, but those lists all look perfectly reasonable to me. Quite frankly I kind of wish my professors would still give us school supply lists because you never know if it's going to be a handout class, a strict recitation, or whatever.

It's all well and good to complain about the community chest when you're well off - but imagine how you would feel if you were the little girl in class who didn't have crayons because her mom was irresponsible and bought beer instead. That's not a six year olds fault. I hate kids and I can see that.

sugar and spice 09-11-2004 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AGDee

I just did some figuring...

$7900 per student x 25 students per class= 197,500 per classroom.
Teacher's salary + benefits (usually add 19% of salary for benefits)= (average, based on Master's Degreed teachers in Michigan)=$75,000
If they are providing nothing but toilet paper and dry erase markers/erasers to a classroom, then they can't be spending more than $300 a year on supplies.

That leaves $122,200 per classroom per year x 20 classrooms per school = 2,444,000. And that leads to my questions.. where is this money going???? I'm just going to have to find out.

Well, beyond teachers, there are school board members, coaches, lunchladies and janitors to hire (to start with!). There's the physical body of the school to maintain and repair -- do have any idea how much it costs to heat a school building, for example? There's the textbooks (often much more expensive than you would expect), lab equipment, computers and software, gym equipment, art class supplies, and library books, to name only a few things.

Honestly, we all know our schools are underfunded, right? Why does this come as a surprise to so many of you?

WCUgirl 09-11-2004 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AGDee
Teacher's salary + benefits (usually add 19% of salary for benefits)= (average, based on Master's Degreed teachers in Michigan)=$75,000
Holy crap! I had no idea the teachers were paid that well up there. My mom has been teaching for 43 years, has her Master's degree and her guidance certification, and she is at the top of the salary scale at $52,000ish.

My mom would always take my toys that I didn't use anymore and use them in her classroom. Sometimes she would take something I still liked and use it for a couple of days, but she would always tell the kids that they had to return it to her in perfect condition b/c it belonged to her daughter.

There have been several times when my mom went out and would buy clothes for children b/c they didn't have any. A lot of my clothes that I outgrew would go to children at her school as well.

I know many mornings she would spend her own $$$ to buy the kids breakfast. She never complained though. None of those things that she purchased were mandatory - she did it because she felt bad for the kids, and it was her way of going the extra mile to make life a little bit better for them, if only for a moment.

Likewise, my father was a P.E. teacher. He purchased many footballs, basketballs and kickballs out of his own pocket for the kids to have to play with. He bought a dartboard (with the plastic darts) for the kids to play w/ when it was raining outside. A lot of the stuff he just left at the school when he retired as a donation. I mean seriously, who needs 25 kickballs lying around their house?

Lexicon 09-11-2004 09:03 PM

Re: Stand down! It's not that deep...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Munchkin03
Also, in any job, you'll often have to put your own money towards work-related expenses. I'm not whining about having to buy a $900 copy of Quark XPress...it's called professional development, baby.
I know we're getting heated, and there are always three sides to any situation. But what you may spend professional development will, in the end, come back to you financially with your improved efficiency, knowledge increase, promotions, bonuses, etc. What we spend in a given week is altruistic, for youth development, in an already strapped area, and it's an endless drain.

For me, it's sixth grade. And believe me, the kids lose those 2-4 pencils a week, if not by dropping them, pencil-fighting, or theft, let's be honest. When I got to my assignment, the supplies I was given were 2 pens, a box of paper clips, 2 boxes of pencils, two boxes of chalk, the daily attendance sheets, and a class list that just keeps increasing. It's the first week of school and I've already had to buy hand sanitizer, copy paper, pens, a pencil sharpener, trays, tape, everything all the parents were probably asked for. i'm also combing through my apt for the rest of what I might need for two weeks, until payday. And it's still not enough.

Yes, folks shell out for their jobs. But it's apples and oranges. And no one should attempt to throw "suck it ups" at people. Let's all recognize that everyone isn't on easy street, parents nor teachers. But often what we ask for is not capricious. The color coding is important when you have a diverse groups of children, some of whom are ESOL, or special needs. Not everyone is as developed as I'm sure all of your angels are.

I'm not as upset as my compatriots, but I empathize.

Lexicon 09-11-2004 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I hate kids and I can see that.
:D I don't know why, but this cracks me up!

AOIIalum 09-11-2004 09:10 PM

Trust me, I'm not going to bash teachers. I've been an active PTA/PTO member at numerous schools in the past 9 years. I've run school fundraisers, served as a room parent and done hands on volunteering in classrooms. I've also campaigned for and voted for about three various school levies in the barely three years we've lived here. There's *never* enough money for education.

I will happily bash a school that for whatever reason doesn't provide at least a basic school supply list of what an "Xth grader at ABC school" needs before the first day of school. There's really no reason for it, especially when the supply lists remain pretty much the same from year to year. It makes things really difficult for any parent, regardless of their bank account!

Senusret I 09-11-2004 09:15 PM

Hey Lexicon, I didn't know you were teaching now!

I am a long-term substitute for a first grade class. Since the teacher has been out on maternity leave, I basically get to plan the whole year, the classroom, etc. (See my thread about the black and gold bulletin boards, ;))

Me and the other first grade teacher are part of the Early Childhood Team. Usually split up into grade levels, it's just easier to lump us all together administratively since we're so small. (1 Pre-K, 2 K, 2 first grade)

I pretty much depended on the other teacher to generate the supply list, and I think it's reasonable. Folders, crayons, pencils, a three prong notebook with looseleaf paper as well as composition books. (We decided to phase out the composition books slowly, but we are still requiring two or so.)

The only "community" item we strongly suggested was a box of Kleenex. (Please believe Kleenex is a hot commodity in DC, where everybody has some sort of respiratory problems, including allergies, asthma, chronic bronchitis, etc.)

I consider my school to be "needy"....not as much as other schools, but the majority do qualify for free or reduced lunch, and there is some drug activity in the community.

HOWEVER....we definitely don't require two of everything for everyone....our faculty is very in tuned with the community and the PTA is constantly doing fundraisers for the school. If a student has needs, another parent or teacher might pick up the slack by choice.

Hell, in fact, this one time last year one of the sixth graders got teased so bad about his hair, I was going to offer to take him to the salon to get it cornrowed. I don't know what happened, I think I got talked out of it.

Anyway....it's all for the kids, god bless em.

AGDee 09-11-2004 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Well, beyond teachers, there are school board members, coaches, lunchladies and janitors to hire (to start with!). There's the physical body of the school to maintain and repair -- do have any idea how much it costs to heat a school building, for example? There's the textbooks (often much more expensive than you would expect), lab equipment, computers and software, gym equipment, art class supplies, and library books, to name only a few things.

Honestly, we all know our schools are underfunded, right? Why does this come as a surprise to so many of you?

I know that they can't buy and provide everything, but, it's an elementary school.. lunch ladies are parent volunteers, there are two janitors, one on days, one on afternoons, no coaches, no labs. The PTA bought the computers. They do have to pay for software and text books and of course heat, water, electricity. And the secretary. It still seems a little out of whack. Personally, I think that soap and dictionaries should be a higher priority than software, gym equipment and art supplies. I'm thinking there is some fluff in the budget somewhere. I honestly and truly don't think teachers should have to provide all that out of pocket either.

AXiD670: I took that figure from a local newspaper article that I posted in the Careers forum. Michigan does pay teachers much more than most states. I have friends in Tennesee and Kentucky who teach with their Masters and make half that. I also added 19% to the base salary to cover benefits, so they aren't taking home that amount, but it's what it costs the school.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.