Pledges or New Members?
 

Someone in my chapter recently brought up the idea of changing the name of our pledges to new members.

Does anyone else call the pre-brothers new members or is pledge the most common?

Re: Pledges or New Members?
 

Most chapters I know use the term 'pledge'.

I dislike the term 'new member' because pledges are more of 'probationary members'. There is no guarantee they will complete their pledge period (probationary period) and become Brothers.

I pledged as a 30-something grad student. I had no problem being a pledge or using that term. People who think the term 'pledge' is some kind of insult need to re-think that. I don't feel that using the term pledge is hazing. That's silly.

yea i agree, something i dont agree with that my chapter does is to let pledgy's in the circle for the toast song, i dont think you should be allow to do that until you are a brother. does any other chapter do this, also i dont agree with wearing letter that arent blue and gold, there is a reason for these colors and to wear any other im my eyes is disrespect, i hate to see brothers waering letter with like littel cartoon characters in them. Also i hate to meet brother who dont know our founding date and basic info. does anyone feel the sameway or disagree?

Pledges in circle- the ceremony calls for it, so its ok. I feel this is part of their training to learn the song, and advocate that pledges sing the song at the end of each pledge training session, and join with the chapter to sing it at the end of meetings & events.

Letter colors- while I prefer blue & gold, I don't get worked up about other colors.

Lack of knowledge- yes, this bothers me. I feel there is a basic set of knowledge that ALL Brothers should learn as pledges, and it bothers me when I met those that don't know stuff like this. Their chapter is doing a poor job of educating their pledges (and future Brothers). To help this, I developed a series of powerpoint presentations with accompanying worksheets that chapters may use in their pledge program.

Re: Pledges or New Members?
 

The reason that NPC groups can use "new member" is that they're pretty much guaranteed that they will be initiated. APO selects their members differently - as emb021 said, there's no guarantee they will become brothers. If APO pledges were called "new members" it would imply something that just isn't true.

Our chapter does this. It was one of the first things we learned, actually.

We got quizzed on things like the founders and basic history and stuff during pledging, and you had to pass those (with a 90) as part of the requirements. Granted everything we needed to know was all there for us in the pledge book, and we knew what was going to be on each pledge quiz the week before, so we had no excuse not to know it. :)

33girl is right. Not everyone who becomes a pledge becomes a Brother. My chapter doesn't cut anyone during rush...it's during the pledge period that people leave or not. I'm fine with that...you find out who is in it for the right reasons and that makes a stronger chapter.

Re: Pledges or New Members?
 

BOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Otherwise, I cosign with the other posts. :D

When I was pledging we were supposed to sing the toast song at the end of every pledge class meeting. I think it would have meant a bit more if we had to wait but I think it was good b/c this was how I actually learned the song.

In my personal opinion I only like to wear blue and gold. I feel it's a little disrespectful when you don't.

I HATE IT WHEN BROTHERS DON'T KNOW THEIR HISTORY!!! I think that says enough right there!

I LOVE IT!!!! LOVE IT.....DID I MENTION THAT I LOVE IT!!

Im Just going to give my $19.25

I am a STUDENT :rolleyes: and this is how I see it.

You are a pledge b/c you are pledging your dedication to this fraternity - you become a "new member" when you are initiated. For those who are familiar with BGLO its called "Crossing the burning sands" or "crossing" for short. B/c you are no longer just a regular student, you have crossed over into a new idenity and a new life now.

As a pledge you are not granted any rights - once you are a "new member" you can wear 'naila and do things.

I saw it as a simple distinction, but I could see why others are confused.:confused:

I WISH I had the nerve in Spring '99 to be a pledge posting on GreekChat "educating" people.

AMEN!!!!

Aren't pledges some of the most important peeps in a chapter? I mean, without new blood, won't a chapter die?

You were all pledges once - remember that the next generation of APO is all based on the pledges now.

btw - I think the post was intelligent, pledge, neo, Brother, whatever.

Im not "educating" anyone....Im just offering my opinion from a side of a fence that most of you have left a long time ago. Also I speak from experience with other organizations. I grew up Greek - my whole household is Greek. So if anything if I WASNT a pledge, I would still have a valid veiwpoint and opinion on this matter.

Can I get a boom-shacka-lacka-lacka? lol

Then you should be well aware of the concepts of HUMILITY and DEFERENCE.

Actually, not all of us were pledges once. Pledging is only one of FOUR (4) ways one may join APO.

I could have joined APO by one of the other 2 methods, but didn't know and wound up pledging as a grad student. But I think I benefited from understanding the process by doing so.

(btw- the other 3 ways are petitioning, becoming an advisor, being made an honorary)

And let the church once again say...AMEN!!!

What's up fam! Haven't posted on here in a while but I would like to reply to the question that was posted. I do not agree with calling a pledge a new member. My main reason is because they are a pledge striving to accomplish something and earn my letters. As far as the colors of the letters on paraphanelia. I wear blue and gold faithfully when I wear my nalia because those are our colors, but if you choose to wear the letters made with another color then so be it. Whatever floats your boat do you. I can only be me and do me. Last but not least, who is the PLEDGE giving us advice on what to call our pledges? That is just my $19.25 worth.

WTH?!?!
 

Pledges should be called just that, pledges. Being called a pledge never took anything away from me it just reinforced my relationship to the fraternity to myself and others. Pledges are not brothers and calling pledges new members would confuse that relationship in their minds and in the minds of others. Pledges are not brothers, the distinction is necessary and semantics play a very important role in how people function within the organization.

To the PLEDGE: You don't have $19.25 to give.

Re: WTH?!?!
 

I know that the pledge did not say that they gave $19.25. LMAOOL!

Re: WTH?!?!
 

Uh, I re-read the note you (and others) are refering to.

Nothing in it indicated that the writer is a pledge. They said they were a student, and indicated their familiarity with the pledging process in general.

Frankly, some of the recent comments toward this person (pledge or no) seem a little out of line.

well, that explains it. I thought the note said that, but when I went to re-read it, it didn't.

regardless, some of the attitude shown was inappropriate.

While a pledge is not a Brother, nor have all the rights within APO, a pledge IS a member class in APO. Pledges can do a lot in the fraternity during their pledge period.

:rolleyes:

A who said what?
 

Buffalo Soldier, my bros, yall are crackin me up, lol. I didn't see the original post, but now that I hear the real story........:eek: .......rotfl. Although I didn't come in through a HBCU, a predominantly Black chapter, a hazing chapter, WHATEVA, fact remains that as a pledge, I couldn't give a true quarter let alone $19.25, hee hee. And then you say she went back and edited it; meaning there was no gall/nerve to stand behind "the point" of the post.....
Somebody stop me, please.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!
 

Now I haven't posted in here for a while, and it may be just a misunderstanding, but I am quite OFFENDED by your statement. I am not sure what you were trying to say, but I do not like the fact that you have equated an HBCU chapter or a predominately black chapter with a hazing chapter. THAT IS STEREOTYPING! Many HBCU chapters and predominately black chapters may have stricter standards and we may do things differently, but we DO NOT HAZE!, and many majority chapters do haze! I know that you probably didn't mean any harm by it, but I just felt a need to tell you that I as a brother from an HBCU (the MIGHTY ZETA PHI) found the comment highly offensive.

Now that is just me adding $19.48 to my $19.25.

News @ 9
9-ZP-03 A
24 ... APOcalypse

P.S. In response to the attitudes from others, although it may have been harsh, it was merited. Pledges should know their place and it was not her place to reply to be disrespectful to brothers. Like my mom always said to me when I wanted to get out of pocket KNOW YOUR ROLE!!!

Re: WHAT?!?!?!?!?!
 

Edwina, that's not what she meant....she was using commas to distinguish the different types of chapters that might be associated with her train of thought. She does not come from one of those types of chapters, yet she still feels the same way that you and I do on the matter.

Trust me, I know her, you took it in a way she didn't intend it. :)

How much time do I have?
 

OKay here - its seems that some things have gotten out of hand and the reason why this topic was posted in the first place has been lost and forgotten.

Now for those of you who seem to think I wont and cant stand behind my post I do and will. I am a woman of my word. I changed the post b/c some where not taking what I said SERIOUSLY for the fact that it said "pledge" therefore I changed it to "student" and note the sarcastic rolling of the eyes right beside it - which means i knew i was changing it and didnt care who else knew - i mean c'mon it says "edited" with the date and time at the bottom of the post!?!?!

I honestly dont know how you can read the post and think it was disrespectful in anyway and I thought I cleared that up in the second post. Just in case some of you arent getting it - I AGREED WITH ALL OF YOU. And the reason why I put PLEDGE/STUDENT in the post is so that you could realize that there has been a foundation and there are things that the STUDENT expects and sees - and that is one of them. I know my place - I just thought it would help for the person who originally posted this question to see what someone from the other side of the fence thought. That helps - sometimes its nice to have an outside perspective on things - something else that I had stated in the second post.

I added in the second post about my experience with Greek organizations so that those who were skeptical of my post would see that I knew what I was talking about.

Like I said before, Im not educating anyone or giving advice. I was answering the question to the post from a PLEDGE/STUDENT perspective and if that offended anyone - fine so be it - I apologize if it offended you but I WILL NOT apologize or change my opinion.

I am shocked to see that a person, student/pledge whatever can't even AGREE to something a BROTHER says without getting some crap about it. I AM a brother and I agree with what was said by the student/pledge. There was no tone of disrespect in the post and it seems to me alot of the "old school" brothers (the one's so far away from the whole initiation process) are the ones that are taking the most offense to it. Don't forget that before "pledge" this person is human and if this person is interested in Alpha Phi Omega and happens to share your view point on pledging vs new member don't bite her head off. How big of you (I say this sarcastically) to tear someone's VALID thoughts on this subject down to nothing. It is not a crime to state an opinion, don't treat her like she's a criminal because she "dares" to post on a subject she is obviously qualified to speak on, even if she IS A PLEDGE or whatnot. And stop trying to misconstrue the girl's words...that makes you look silly. What makes it ok for a brother to say what this girl said and then it's wrong for her to say the same thing? If there's gonna be a problem with what someone says, let it be someone of the OPPOSITE opinion than you,please?!


Jen
ALPHA PHI OMEGA
KAPPA UPSILON CHAPTER, ECU
KBA-SPRING '03

PrettyKittieJ and APhiOKUgirl:

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with what a "Pledge" says.....it's about someone who is not a Brother commenting on something that they do not have a full understanding of because they have not seen it from both sides yet. Sure, you can agree all you want, but in essence, you are still an outsider. That might be how your chapter rolls, but that's not how I roll, and I can and will comment about it.

I am not one of these Brothers who believes in putting pledges BELOW Brothers, but no, you're not my equal when it comes to the knowledge, history, traditions, and even sociology of this Brotherhood. Certain things come with experience -- trial and error. Hell, that's the point of being a PLEDGE before you are a Brother. You make mistakes and you learn from them. You remain humble in the face of so-called "old school" Brothers -- and if we are ACTIVE, we are not "far away" from the initiation process, KUgirl. Almost all of the people who have replied to this thread have seen at least one pledgeclass cross at their home chapter and participated in some way. You defer to brothers who are more experienced than you.

And I wouldn't be harping on humility and deference if PrettyKittieJ hadn't expressed her intimate understanding of Greek Life and BGLOs.

The experience that the Brothers on this board are trying to impart, in various ways, is trying to show you that the so-called "$19.25" is not something WE feel you should be using.....that's like using one of the fraternity calls before you are initiated, wearing letters, etc....it's not something that's a national policy, but it is something that is, to us, a mark of irreverence.

To further identify the difference between this particular pledge and these particular brothers, NO, you have NOT begun a new identity simply because you become an APO Brother. My life was enhanced, I had increased responsibilities, and I had a slew of new obligations.....my life was different, but I had the same identity. I feel bad for anyone who feels they have a brand-new life simply because they are in APO. Those kind of people usually don't last long in the organization.

ANOTHER thing every Brothers know is that YES pledges have rights! For a pledge to say "As a pledge you are not granted any rights" shows me that SOMETHING is going wrong in the process.

And finally.....those chapters that are considering the move from "pledge" to "new member" are clearly being influenced by their local NPC. NPCs call their probationary members "new members" for a reason.....that reason is altogether different from why we call our probationary members "pledges"......they do things differently, but clearly they are affecting the climate of that particular campus. I don't particularly like it, but if "pledge" is becoming a dirty word on their campus, then they have two options....keep it or lose it. They have to make the decision that is best for their campus climate. I might not like it, but chapters make those sort of decisions every day.

VERY SIMILAR to how APO at HBCUs in the olden days used "Pledge Club" terminology. It was the norm among all GLOs on those campuses. APO tends to give chapters leeway in these types of matters, and backs the chapter in their decisions as long as they don't violate rules.

PrettyKittie, for real, I don't know you, so I can't possibly have any personal problems with you. But as a pledge, I wish you would PM me or any of the other Brothers who seemed to have a problem with your post, so you can learn where we are coming from without being on the defensive and having your girl back you up instead of helping you see where we're coming from.

co-sign to the nth power!!!

THANK YOU....that's exactly what bothered me about this particular post. You're not being educated properly if you think this, so trying to educate others is out of the question!

Ok. I definately understand when you say that the problem is with a non-brother commenting on something that they don't fully understand. And I do agree that going through the pledge process for yourself is something completely different than coming from a family that is Greek. But, when I re-read the posts thinking I might have missed something, here's what I got from it:

ORIGINAL POST: Does anyone else call the pre-brothers new members or is pledge the most common?

Yes, this is posted under an Alpha Phi Omega forum, but it does not distinguish to whom the writer is posing the question. To assume that the writer is questioning the brothers only is like putting words into their mouth that they might not have intended to be there in the first place. So, that said, a person interested in going through a process to recieve new membership, posts a reply that many brothers agree with, but disagree with because of her status.



EDITED REPLY: I am a STUDENT and this is how I see it.

You are a pledge b/c you are pledging your dedication to this fraternity - you become a "new member" when you are initiated. For those who are familiar with BGLO its called "Crossing the burning sands" or "crossing" for short. B/c you are no longer just a regular student, you have crossed over into a new idenity and a new life now


Now, most of us who aren't trying to be contrary to someone because they aren't a brother, can find truth in this statement. Maybe others were confused, or better yet unsure of how to respond to the accurate depiction of a process that many of us went through because the writer of this response isn't a brother, but it is a valid response nonetheless.



POST: That might be how your chapter rolls, but that's not how I roll, and I can and will comment about it.....

If you can comment, why can't PrettyKittyJ?


POST: I am not one of these Brothers who believes in putting pledges BELOW Brothers, but no, you're not my equal when it comes to the knowledge, history, traditions, and even sociology of this Brotherhood. Certain things come with experience -- trial and error. Hell, that's the point of being a PLEDGE before you are a Brother.

This is EXACTLY the point PrettykittyJ was trying to express to you! She meant no disrespect by the post, and in all honesty, I did not sense an arrogant tone with her words. But when her words were taken out of context, of course they are going to be choppy and arrogant.


POST: NO, you have NOT begun a new identity simply because you become an APO Brother. My life was enhanced, I had increased responsibilities, and I had a slew of new obligations.....my life was different, but I had the same identity.


Maybe you should ask PrettyKitty, but because we've already spoken about the "identity" in her post, I know that she didn't mean "wow, I'm in APO now, I am somebody completely different than before I pledged." she meant that with the letters Alpha Phi Omega or whichever letters someone is trying to obtain, there comes a certain responsibility to those letters. If you haven't changed by your pledge process, I feel sad for you, because the whole process is designed to make you think, to make you look inside of yourself and to gain knowledge through experiencing something you may not have done. ou grow. Through knowledge is growth and through growth is the ever adapting identity.

I'm not trying to make anyone defensive, or anything like that, but if this is an open forum with adults that should be able to converse without attacking someone....I still on't understand why there is a problem if everyone's in agreeance with the word. Oh, and since we are being catty-- there is no need for PrettyKittyJ to have her girl "back her up" especially when her word is valid. I'm simply an advocate of people being able to express their opinions WITHOUT being attacked. The problem is, PrettykittyJ sees where you are coming from, you just refuse to see that she's on your side.

*Ding Ding*
 

It is now obvious to me that no matter what I say from here on out until When/IF I get my letters is going to be scruntinized and disected and if that is the way that YOUR chapter rolls then so be it, but that is not how it goes on down here....

Here I may speak my opinion IF a Brother feels that it is valid - to me - and the Brother who is in the Chapter where I am pledging, APhiOKUGrl - did not see it as a problem at all - b/c I do have an understanding from both sides. I took to her for counsel before I made the very first post.

As has been said previously the first post was the reply to a question, I made a valid point and I have experience to back it up - thats why I made it.

As for the identity comment - that is your opinion and the way you see it. I believe that during the pledging process you learn things about yourself and you are different. I dont mean it has you completely change and you go from one extreme to another. But this is now a part of you and you are a different person than when you began the process.

As for the "pledge has no rights" comment - maybe I didnt word this correctly as to my particular thought. It is my belief that pledges earn their rights within the organization. Of course you dont take their rights away - thats crazyness. But you are GRANTED certain rights, responsilbilites and obligations once you receive your letters that you have EARNED through the pledging process. There for the words "pledge" and "new member" for the reasons above do not equal each other.

And FINALLY - as for the "so you can learn where we are coming from without being on the defensive and having your girl back you up instead of helping you see where we're coming from." comment -

Im not being defensive - some of you are picking your favorite phrases from my posts and making a mockery of them. I am going to defend myself and my words if I feel that they are being misconstrued and misrepresented - so if thats being "defensive" so be it.

And I am not having "my girl" back me up. APhiOKUGrl is one of my Big Brothers - just as she is YOUR Brother. And seeing as she is in such a position she can be unbiased and see both sides - its just obvious that she agrees with me and see's my point from a view that you and some others are unable to find.

Well I see how Kappa Upsilon rolls! Good luck to the pledge and her Big!




VirtuousWoman - I think we've found a third side to our bloody triangle? LOL

I second! Enough said.

This is the dumbest thread ive seen in a long time, Why are we even wasting our time with this mess, she dont know aboutthe frat and just because you were raised in a house full of greek your still not greek, your not a member of APO yet or a black greek, i know me and many other of my apo brother are member of both so we can comment, i hate when people that arent greek but cause there momma or father are greek they think that can talk.

Let me spit some REAL apo knowledge on you sweety, unlike other orgs APO has the right to not allow a "pledge" to become a brother just by not showing the spirit of apo, and right now you dont understand what they means. With your comments you dont seem to understand your place in apo. Yes you do have rights but you are in a learning process right now, you should be on here to ask questions about the frat. Getting knowledge from other brothers and networking. Not perpin with the " this is my 19.25 cent" to me you are a wannabe black greek that is trying to understand apo. I dont think you would have th enerve to go on the black greek thread and saying something like this, well let me just let you know everyone in here loves the frat and take it very seriously, people are just trying to be nice but not me, become a brother then talk, other than that dont say nothing, its pointless that like talking to a brick wall.

You havent even begun to know what apo is about ive been in apo for over 3 years and still learning everyday so take this time to learn and not to question the process, get through it and when you done then fight for what you think is wrong, cause i dont know about other bros but your comments dont mean anything, your not finish and you havent seen the bigger pictrue yet, i swear we need to put a claimer up saying if your a APO pledge finish before you post.

To me you have done some very disrespectful things, comment on our process that we all take seriously, use terms that only brothers use. i mean its not a very good start in your journey to the spirit of APO. I hope you learn and become a good brother but PLEASE FINISH the process and then comment on whatever you want.

You broke it down!

This is why I love this brotherhood.

Casanova APQ...You have broke it down! That was beautifully said!!!

Somebody take a picture.....me and CasanovaAPQ actually agree on something!

A big cosign to you, Brother.