How would you have handled this?
 

I found myself in the midst of a pretty awkward situation last week and I'm wondering how other people would have handled it. Here's the scenario.... I was talked into hanging out with a group of co-workers after work. They were going to a restaurant pretty close to my house, so I would have looked like I just didn't want to be a part of the "team" if I didn't go. So, we get there and the conversation turns to the origins of our last names and nationality. Now, I was the only black face at the table, so I immediately became uncomfortable. Everyone kind of went around the table saying, "yeah, my mother is dutch, my dad is german.... my last name comes from (fill in the blank). Do y'all know, one of them turned to me and said, "Bamboozled, where is your family from?" Now, this might be an easy question for some of you because your parents, or perhaps even you, moved to this country on their own free will. Not me and mine. My ancestors were brought here as slaves and srtipped of their identities. How the hell should I know where my last name originates? I was caught so off guard that I said the first thing that came to my mind. My hometown. Isn't that ridiculous??? I've been kicking myself ever since. I wish I would have honestly said, "I don't know", or at least, "somewhere in Africa". And to the question, "where does your last name originate?", I wish I had said, "Probably your great-great grandfather."

And slavery has had no lasting affects in this country, huh?

So, what would you have done? Do you think I'm overreacting? Has this ever happened to you?

Soror, I think that was an excellent answer. Maybe you felt silly after saying that, but that should have been their cue to change the subject.

No, I don't think that you are overreacting. Yes, this has happened to me before; I was not asked by a white person, but by an Ethiopian man. He was absolutely amazed that I could not tell him where my family orignated. It made me sad. :(

How would I have reacted? I would have told the truth: that I didn't know. And I would have explained my truth. Yes, I would have said that my last name was probably the last name of a slave owner. I mean, would they really be surprised? They would have been uncomfortable, most likely. But no more uncomfortable than you were with the whole conversation.

That's never happened to me before. I would have been caught off guard too. They were trying to include you in the convo so they probably didn't really think before they asked you the question anyway....
________
Iolite Review

That's EXACTLY how I felt. I wanted to leave. I guess I had never had to articulate it before, so it bothered me more than I would have thought.

Yeah, I don't think that is was asked maliciously and I think the faux pas was acknowledged because the conversation was quickly changed. But at that point, I felt so out of place that I just wanted to go home.

Being that you were caught off guard I think you handled it well.

When I was in college the ladies I worked with used to ask, "Are you sure you're not Angela Davis' daughter." And others likened me to Assata Shakur. That all to say is that I'm very much pro-black.

I have one of those last names that end in "son." I've been told that my peoples were probably the son of such and such; thus the last name.

So that would have been my answer to your keebler (white folks;) ) colleagues.
Whenever you bring up slavery around white folks they tend to become uncomfortable, but in your case they opened the door. And actually it's a good thing b/c they need to know the affects of it and we need to NEVER FORGET IT.

Although this off the subject, our history is lost with each generation b/c so many of us want to forget it and move on. I digress.

Sistafriend you did good and your not overreacting many of us have to deal with such antics.

Bamboozled, I'm sorry you had to go through that. :( I agree with Pinky--that someone didn't think before they asked you that question. I would havetold them I I do not know where my name originates, but since I do know where different parts of my family are from, I would've explained a little bit of that. Then I would have changed the subject (ie. I love to travel there someday...have you ever traveled to _____?)...

ETA: When I said different parts of my family, I meant ancestry as well as location.

Bamboozled you handled it very well. I have never had that happen to me but someone has told me "go back to where you’ve come from?" And they were not talking about my present residence. I told the idiot "Unfortunately I am home and you on the other hand have the pleasure of knowing your origin so you sir go back home." Once again, you handled it very well and were not overreacting. The reality is some us do not know and may never know where our names originate.

I don't know if I am overly sensitive but Roots and Queen scenes keep going through my head.

My family is from the West Indies, so that is what I would have said. I identify very strongly with my Caribbean roots- it's shaped who I am.

I think that Caribbean Americans have such a different experience. In Jamaica blacks are the majority by far. So when you see someone who is rich, they're black. When you see someone poor, they're black. In politics? (Probably) black. My folks fought for freedom in the hills of Jamaica in the 1600's and sent those Brits packing (not what happened on the island as a whole, but my family is Maroon- this is a history lesson in and of itself that I wont get into here, lol). Regardless of how we got there it is OUR country.

Am I sad that I dont know what part of Africa we sailed from originally? Not really. Because I feel like I have a place. I dont know if other West Indians feel like me, but that is my experience. I just wanted to share, since everyone is talking about how they see it.

I feel you on what you're saying. The same in the Bahamas. We too had white British rule. 90% of the population is black or some variation of black. Our people in power, rich, poor etc. black. One of my friends from the States came home w/ me this summer & we went looking at big houses. And she asked "Any of these people black?" And I said...yeahhhh. That was wierd to me but she was amazed that Black people were running things.

When people ask my name origin I usually go to the island it originates from, not the slavemaster's ancestors. I don't think of the Slavemaster name as my ancestory. So I proberbly would have said the island our name is from. So I very much feel as if the Bahamas is my home & I have no desire to seek elsewhere. Also b/c a lot of our traditions & even my accent is still reminicient (sp?)of my African heritage.

That's interesting. When I was in Africa I had an interesting discussion with a white guy. He asked me what my ancestry was and I told him "hell if I know. Someplace in Africa, obviously." When I asked him his, he said South Africa. I was like "no, your AN-CEST-ORS" He was like "I'm South African." I was like "No, Ludwig your ancestors HAVE to be Flemish/Dutch...see, my ancestors are African, not yours." Afrikaans is not a traditional African language despite what you've been told, Xhosa, Zulu, Swahili, etc. are. He first swore that Afrikaans was the original language of South Africa and that his ancestry wsa South African. After I repeated what I'd said he was like "I never thought of it that way." I was like "because you have the luxury of not having to. I think about it frequently because I feel disconnected from my ancestry." needless to say, I was pissed.

Bamboozled, I think you handled it well. You were caught off guard and it's a sticky situation having to "play the game, while standing up for what you believe." I think white folks have the luxury of not experiencing the same types of oppression and identity crises that we go through...actually most people here in the U.S. do. Most other people have language and religious traditions that are indigenous to their culture. We have English and Christianity and no link to anything else.

Stay proud of who you are!
 

This is what saddens me. SisterGreek you had no reason to feel bad or out of place. Don't ever let them make you feel like that a gain. You are a beautiful Black woman with a stronger history than they will ever know. Believe that!

Re: How would you have handled this?
 

Skee Wee Soror

I think that you handled it well and probably could have just also added that it was probably the last name given to your ancestors during the time of slavery. What I usually do is also add where my ancestors originated from in Africa. You know that if your ancestors were brought during the slave trade (as were many Blacks in the US and Caribbean today), your ancestors probably came from West Africa. You could just say that region of Africa if you want to connect all the way back.

B/c my mother is into genealogy, she has done the research but I understand that everyone does not have this kind of information. If you are interested in finding out the sources that she used to track our family ancestry, pm me and I'll be sure to ask her and pm you back.

You did fine sawrah :D
SC

My grandfather had done some research and found out what tribe his great^4 grandmother came from, but never wrote it down, and no one can remember exactly. It was a tribe that began with the letter U, in West Africa. Other than that, I know my last name is English, because his father's grandfather was English and he married a Cherokee (or Choptow) woman. I wonder what they would have said if I'd have said my family is from England lol.

I would have picked up my briefcase and walked right out the damn door.

My mentor says WE should never talk about personal issues with co-workers. Bro. Ward says to stick to topics like sports, the temperture and other non-descript subjects. I've yet to learn the lesson but I'm trying.

I've been doing that for years. I almost never discuss personal, sex or political topics with random co-workers. Better to stick to sports, TV shows and shopping.:p

Ditto! Personally Bamboozled, eventhough it was conversation I don't think the conversation was all that appropriate to even have. So in answer to your question I would have answered it the same as you did.

Until two years ago I had no idea that my "up the line family" on my mother/grandmother's side originated in Cameroon Africa. One of my distant cousins who my mother barely knows did a search and called my mother. Until she called I didn't even know I had family in DC. I was very proud of the fact that I at least know where in Africa we originated from, but look how long it took me to find that out........33 years! :)

I like it!

[hijack]

Y'all might think this is crazy, but ever since the movie The Firm, I've been real careful about how I interact with co-workers. And they HATE it. They want you to come to potlucks and happy hours and baby showers and all that. Nah, man, I'm cool on all that. So I would've never ended up at the restaurant in the first place. Sometimes you have to explain that you come to work to get a check, not to make friends. They always wanna be friends. "Buddy-buddy-buddy all up in ya face." Naw.

[/hijack]

Ditto.

Matters of religiono r ethnicity have no place in the ofice. I only discuss things if I know we agree- like politics. I realized today that even at work, I dont know any republicans...

You really, really, reeaaaaalllly need to start your own business. Yu will neva eva be happy working for someone else, lol.

It's a shame you shut them out though- I have made some great friends and contacts through my jobs. You have to be nice, if ONLY for networking purposes! If I didn't network my butt off I wouldn't have my current job.


ETA: This fostering of goodwill is especially important in non-profits. It's like working for a little family in my experience.

Oh, I'm very nice, Soror! For real! But only to a point. I've made great friends from my past jobs, but it's after I've been there for a while. I'm not going to be buddy-buddy with EBERYBODY. I don't want to hear about EVERYBODY's issues at home and daycare and sex lives and politics. That stuff has a place, and to me, the office is not it.

ETA: I'm not always trusting of people that I work with. You never know what will come out in conversation and how it will be used against you later. I've learned from my mistakes. Networking is one thing (I network even better than I procrastinate, if you can believe that, lol). Extradimensional relationships (I made that up, I like it) are another.

But you are right on one account: I do need to start my own business. I will neva eva be happy working for someone else, lol. That is the truth!!!

I'm really not a cold binch. But what am I saying, you know me. :)

You don't know ANY republicans????? NONE??? Allow me to invite you into my circle of friends. I love these people, but I swear, I don't know why they think the way they do, lol.

I feel the same way. You can be nice, and even talk about certain "safe" subjects, like "oh, my son just graduated from college today", or "did you see the Olympics last night?" but sex lives, politics, etc.--NO, b/c you don't know how that can come back to bite you in the behind. My mother taught me to not trust everybody, esp. at work.

We have a lot in common, lol. My mother taught me the same thing. I sometimes wonder if I learned the lesson wrong, though. I think it gives me baggage. I'm still figuring that out, though.

Interesting discussion
 

Again, I love that this side of GC can pretty much have civil, respectful discussions.

One thing came to mind: In Veronica Chambers' Having it All? Black Woman and Success, one of the women interviewed talked about creating what she called a "corporate space," something that allowed you to be civil while keeping a sense of privacy.

Her point was that if you don't let people in at least a little bit, they will make assumptions about you. I'll post more about this tomorrow. I don't have the book with me at the desk.

Re: Interesting discussion
 

Please do post more, because people do make assumptions about me and it gets on my nerves. I am one of the nicest most compassionate people that I know, yet people think that I'm mean and cold. :( I let people in a little bit, but my little bit is not always enough for them. They always want more, and I don't have any more to give. I hate to hear people say "oh, don't be like that." Don't be like what? Because I don't desire to go out with you EVERY WEEK or because I don't invite you to lunch with me and my FRIENDS or because I didn't tell you about something personal in my life? Don't be like what? Cuz I'm not going to be phony EVER. It's like no one wants to stay in the little box marked "COWORKER," everyone wants to move into the"FRIENDS" box or the "ASSOCIATE" box. Why we can't just be coworkers? Why can't we go to lunch once in a while. Why can't we become friends if that is what is meant to be. It doesn't have to be forced.

*sigh* I guess I'm a private person. A lot of people think that I'm a social butterfly, and I can be, but really, I like to keep to myself. When people try to invade my space (physically and mentally) I guess I become defensive. I think I have issues. :(

I work in NYC. In publishing. Nooooo republicans here my friend.

Although we do publish plenty of them, lol. I have a signed copy of the book with a personal note written by the man who prosecuted the impeachment of Bill Clinton on my shelves. We are also responsible for "Michael Moore is a Bag Fat White Man. Not to mention almost every book by someone who works for the Fox News Channel :rolleyes:

But no one here is a republican. Go figure!

Re: Re: Interesting discussion
 

No Soror, you don't have issues. If you do, then so do I.

Speaking of someone invading your space, I had to get a student told one day because he was coming around my desk to look at his profile. AS HE WAS WALKING around to my desk, he decided to ask me "Do you mind?" I told him yes, I did mind because I don't invade his space, and I would appreciate it if he didn't invade mine. Don't know how that went over, neither did I care.

I learned the hard way, just like many others on here, to not let everybody into my little private world. I tend to like to spend time by myself I think because I grew up as an only child, so I learned to be alone (but not necessarily lonely).

I have an exceptionally nosey co-worker that asks questions like "Why do you want an SUV?", when I mentioned that I wanted one. I don't care if gas gets up to $5.00/gallon, that doesn't stop me from WANTING one. Don't I have the option to want what I want? And secondly, I asked her for not one red cent toward my blackToyota Sequoia! :)

You let in your little space who you want to let in when you want to let them in. If they don't like it, well then tough ______ said the kitty, and the milk is sour too (fill in the blank)!

Re: Re: Re: Interesting discussion
 

LMAO!!! I have never heard that but I WILL be using it!!! LOL LOL

We have totally hijacked this thread. Sorry Soror Bamboozled. :o

I thank you all for your insightful repsonses. It feels so good to know I'm not alone. Like I said, I had never be asked that type of question in such an environment, so it just really bothered me. It's sort of like a rapist asking a rape victim how she feels about rape.

I agree about keeping your work life separate from your private life. I almost never go to lunch/dinner/cocktail hours with my co-workers. That's why this time, I kind of had to. We were celebrating the completion of a project and they tried to accomodate me by going somewhere on my side of town. Believe me, if I could have come up with a good excuse quick enough, I wouldn't have gone.

When I first started working here, I was accused of being anti-social because I declined an invitation to go to lunch EVERYDAY with a group of girls who do just that. They sit around and gossip and talk about what was on TV last night. That's just not my forte. Another co-worker asks me almost everyday to join him for lunch. He told me today he was going to ask me everyday until I said yes. I told him, "Don't do that. When I want to go, I'll let you know." Like Soror Ideal said, I'm not here to make friends. We most likely wouldn't be friends if we didn't work together, so why try to force it because we do? Honestly, I just want to be left alone to do what I'm here to do. I don't invite you to any of my private functions, so please don't feel obligated to invite me to yours.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate my co-workers. I actually kind of like some of them. It's just that I don't want to reveal that private part of myself. I mean damn, can I keep something for myself? Again, like Soror Ideal said, even if you get a little, they just want more adn more. I actually enjoy attending the Christmas party and other functions throughout the year that foster better working relationships. I enjoy getting to talk to people and see them outside of the work environment. Isn't that enough?
Have any of you read the book Shifting (thanks Soror lovelyivy)? The authors kind of touch on this subject.

I have Shifting, thanks to Soror LI84, ;) which is co-written by a college friend of mine, Charisse Jones. I have got to start it, but I've read previews. The book that I referenced from Veronica Chambers also deals with some of that.
There's nothing wrong with keeping some privacy. I had to learn to do that myself.

I am so sad that you felt so alienated by that question. In their defense they probably never thought about it that way (they have never had to). I have been around people of European descent quite often, and participated in countless discussions of their ethnicity. I guess, like I pointed out, that my take is different because I come from an immigrant culture myself that elected to come to America. So for me, the question is just another chance to share all the thiings I love about where I'm from.

I feel like NYC is one big conversation about ethnicity actually. It's just one of the basic questions people ask here, to EVERYONE - who are you and "what" are you. I know a ton of people who come here from other places and are completely offended by it when they first encounter the question, but that's just how it is. They have to get used to it I guess, because everyone asks. I guess it would never occur to me to be offended by this question because I am so used to it!Most people I know, regardless of culture, are something- they are African, West Indian, Hispanic, Italian, Irish, Czech, British, mutts, and the list goes on (Actually, at University Black American students used to comment on how they were such a minority within the minority- most of the black students were of African, Caribbean or Latino descent).

I guess I just want you not to take it to heart so much, as hard as I know that must be to do :(

As far as getting along with coworkers, I get along with everyone and talk to EVERYONE. As you can see from this post, if you give me half a chacne I WILL tell you my life's story, lol. It's really just my nature- can't help it.

Thanks!
 

Just wanted to thank Soror Bamboozled for starting this thread. It's been a LONG time since I saw anything on GC that really made me sit down and think about what I wanted to post...

I seriously doubt the people you work with were trying to hurt your feelings or make you uncomfortable. Many people do know where their family is from-Jamaica, Bahamas, English and African. I mean, it's not out of the question that you could know some of your family history. Some poeple change their last names after doing research of their family tree. I don't think your feelings are invalid at all, but I hope they weren't trying to make you feel bad. My really good friend is black and she is British, accent and all. She does know where her mother's family came from, but not so much her fathers. :)

I agree with you. I stated previously that I'm almost certain that the question wasn't asked maliciously. I believe I was just being included in the conversation. I harbor no ill feelings towards any of these co-workers. The question was just a bit of a reality check for me.

I also understand that a lot of people are able to trace their family trees. I know my family has attempted to do so, but we haven't been able to get much further than Mississippi, because as we're all aware, detailed records were not kept for slaves. Most paper trails consist of bills of sale :eek: and those didn't indicate where someone came from. So, I envy all of you who can actually go back and trace your roots. I hope that someday, I will have a better picture.

And Soror lovelyivy, you are so right that ethnicity is a common topic in NY. I've been asked several times what I am (most people think I look Ethiopian, so maybe that's a start) but those are usually "black" people wondering what kind of "black" I am, lol. I guess it bothered me this time because of the circumstances. At least now, I'm better prepared for the next time it comes up.

TTT/Corporate space
 

Good morning all.

As promised, I did bring Having It All? into my office today to post about the corporate space idea. It's on page 41, BTW, for those who have the book.

Eventually, I (Chambers) learned the importance of creating what one executive in the Catalyst study calls a "corporate space;" a place where I could be personable, without necessarily getting personal.
It's a idea that many black women resist.
"I've had people in my office that have said, 'I ain't gonna do that s***. I'm good at what I do, but I'm not going to sit down and have a cup of coffee with them,'" one senior executive told Catalyst. "They say, 'I am not going to chitchat about what I did over the weekend with them.' I say, if you don't they're going to make up stories.
"Don't look it as an infringement on your private space. Create your corporate space. You create a corporate space by giving them the image you want them to have, not necessarily what reality is."

Catalyst is a national nonprofit group that studies women in business. The study that Ms. Chambers refers to on page 40 of Having It All? was published in 1999 and it examined women of color in corporate management.

Re: TTT/Corporate space
 

I think the corporate space idea is dead on. The reality is we always want to be judge by the content of our character but we are judged more by the quality of our working relationships. We are penalized far too frequently for the lack of relationships with coworkers than I think we admit to our selves. It is not always about sucking up but when you have to fairly competitive choices, people are going to go with who they feel like they know, who they feel trusts them a little by letting them in. We as Black women want to go to work do our job and leave and that is not what will get you to the top.

I have a corporate space at work. I eat lunch with the Black women here who are my friends some of the time and with the white women who are my work associates at others. They know some of my hobbies and here some of the things I do on the weekend. My friends here know more. They rest get enough for them to feel like they know me with out me having to really let them know me. It is enough to sustain a non-work related conversation and it makes a big difference.

Re: TTT/Corporate space
 

I don't like that sentence. At all.

I'm not saying I'm not personable; I am. I chat. *A LITTLE BIT* But I am not going out with them unless we are "like that."

It happened at work today. I'm temping for a nonprofit and one of the interns is leaving today. So they are (as we speak) having a goodbye lunch for her. I didn't want to go, so I didn't go. I thought EVERYBODY in the office was going. So I come back from the bank, and the other Black lady is still in the office. She said she didn't want to be bothered so she didn't go. So I started thinking, the only people that didn't go were the Black women. Why is that? But I guess Chambers hit it on the head.

This is an idea that is going to take some getting used to. Some people you click with off the jump. Some people you don't.

Re: Re: Interesting discussion
 

I feel ya! I feel ya!

I say: Get a dayum life (outside of "your" job). That is the problem around here. These people want to work 5 days a week together and party 7 days a week. Ummmmmmmmm, I don't want to see you THAT much! I have other things to do.... Then you get labeled as "acting funny" etc etc wudeva! :rolleyes:

Re: Re: TTT/Corporate space
 

Kimmie, I agree with what you're saying. However, a line is drawn when co-workers take it to another level. There's nothing wrong with me sharing with someone that my boyfriend and I went to the Poconos for the weekend, but that's not enough for some people. They want to know about the sex that was had. That's just totally inappropriate. As a black woman, I'll admit that I'm probably even more careful about what I discuss at work. We're already seen as oversexed, promiscuous, obnoxious, unintelligent, loud mouths and I feel it is my duty to not further perpetuate that stereotype. I'm also not naive enough to think that once I do let my guard down, that there's not somebody just waiting to take advantage of that.

I also want to clarify something else. For me, this isn't a black or white issue. Nosey, harrassing black employees are just as annoying as nosey, harrassing white ones and I treat them all the same. I really do enjoy most of my co-workers and have no problem chatting with them about trivial things. I've been in the corporate world long enough to know how to play the game. It's when people get comfortable and step outside of what is acceptable in the corporate world that is a problem. And as I said before, once you let them know a little about you, they want to know EVERYTHING about you. I think if you're a generally quiet, cordial person, interests are sparked even more and people are just DYING to learn more about you.

I don't mind going out with my co-workers every once in a while and I attend all the parties/dinners/functions that we have. I'm just not going to be the one going out for a beer after work 3 times a week. If that makes me an angry black woman, than so be it.

Discretion
 

^^
Oh, hell, no. Sex life inquiries are most inappropriate, no matter what the race of the questioner. I'm sorry, Soror, that you had to go through that.