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the pope
I was reading on the world renowned news section of AOL today about the pope and his health....one cardinal that is a papal assisntant ( i dont know i am not catholic) says it isnt much longer until the end.
I just thought it was very sad. My grand dad died just recently of Parkinsons at that same very age and it was a sad thing to read about. |
I went to Catholic school for 13 years, and my family's been very involved in the church for as long as I can remember. I can't remember when Pope John Paul II became the head of the church, he's the only Pope I've known, and it's tough to see anyone (papal or not) suffering like that.
I haven't really kept to my Catholic roots in recent years and I don't really share the same views the church does, but still I consider him a leader, and it broke my heart to see him leading the people at Lourdes despite his ailments. |
It'll be really interesting to see who the next Pope will be. I'm halfway expecting some major changes in the Church.
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Yeah, its not looking very good for the Pope. Its really sad
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His Holiness John Paul II was elected Pope in 1978. Before taking the name John Paul II he was Karol Cardinal Wojtyla, Archbishop of Krakow, Poland. (I hope I have the Polish spelling right...) He succeeded John Paul I, who reigned only about 30 days before succumbing to a mysterious illness.
I feel the same way you do, Sandy regarding the Church. I don't agree with certain rules and policies of the Church, but I do consider the Pope our spiritual leader. If anyone wants to read an outstanding novel about the election of a Pope, I recommend reading The Shoes of the Fisherman by Morris West. It's almost eerily prophetic of the election of the first non-Italian pope in over 400 years. And mind you, it was originally written in the early 1960s. Don't count out the Italians... they are the real power behind the papal throne. Whoever succeeds John Paul II will have some very large shoes to fill. |
I would be very surprised to see a Pope come from anywhere but North America or Europe at this point in time...I think it would alienate American Catholicism to an even greater extent.
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I don't really see a North American Pope in the near future... most likely European or South American. However there has been some debate over the issue in various Catholic publications and media... many see this as an important or pivotal moment in the Church, which could be influenced by a new Pope to adopt a more liberal or conservative policies, with strong advocates on both sides... should be interesting either way, to see if they can live up to the standard set by Pope John Paul II.
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Like i said i am not catholic ,my dad is and believe me i was always threaten with a all girls catholic boarding school growing up ...but my question is this why is it that the church would lean towards an europeon cardinal to become pope vs. more american cardinal like cardinal john mahoney that is very pivotol in the US.....
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The name John Paul came from the combination of those two previous Pontifs. Unfortunately, Pope John Paul died after a very short time in office and the present Pope, in a very dramatic and highly appreciated gesture chose the name Pope John Paul II.
I may be the only Presbyterian in history to direct a world TV pool feed of a live Papal Mass (World Youth Day in Denver) in about 1994 or so. What a presence this man has -- and what amazing pictures we got -- particularly during a night time prayer vigil in an open field on a summer evening in a state park in the Denver area. The Pope and other clergy, The National Repertory Orchestra, the Colorado Symphony Chorus and the Colorado Children's Chorale. And, of course, a "congregation" of about 450,000 people. Even back then, my robotic camera on the stage caught the trembling in his hands on tight closeups, noting the beginning of the Parkinsons -- but what an amazing face. And what a communicator -- in sixteen languages that weekend. A resistance fighter during WWII, a poet, a skiier/outdoorsman, a scholar and a man of God -- no matter what religion you are, you can realize that he is a truely remarkable man. A final story. On the night Cardinal Wojtyla (we'll go with your spelling, Alpha Sig), I was directing the 11:00 PM news on WJBK-TV, CBS in Detroit. We had a crew in Rome with the Late John Cardinal Dearden, Archbishop of Detroit when John Paul was elected -- and a month later they had to go back for the election of John Paul II. The night of his election, the producer and I were chatting about what kind of sidebar we might find. Out of the blue I told him to check the phone book because there was a large Polish population in the Detroit suburb of Hamtramack (not sure I spelled that correctly -- been a long time). Sure enough, there was someone named Wojtyla. Not a common name. It turned out that it was the Pope's cousin. We had the exclusive story, including picture of the two together in Poland at a much younger age. The most recent speculation I've read is that the Cardinal/Archbishop of Lourdes is considered as the (or at least a) favorite to replace John Paul II. Again, a remarkable man and a remarkable reign. |
Close enough, DA... it's Hamtramck (pronounced Hamtramick). And Pope John Paul II's surname is pronounced "Voy-tee-vah". :)
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The visit in Lourdes was very beautiful and I hope one day to visit the grotto (sp?).
The story behind it is very beautiful and has been one of my favorites since the first time I heard it. |
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More information on the College of Cardinals and how a new Pope is elected.
College of Cardinals: http://www.aquinas-multimedia.com/cards/cards.html Papal election: http://www.aquinas-multimedia.com/cards/sedeva.html |
I really appreciate reading a thread about the Pope that is respectful, even if one disagrees with some of his/the Church's teachings.
Pope John Paul II is a hero of mine and I feel a daughter's love for him, so I'm hesitant to discuss his successor while he's still alive... but I've heard good things about Cardinal Arinze from Africa. It's not a matter of choosing a pope who is "conservative" or "liberal"... from Europe, North America or elsewhere... but one who is loyal to the magisterium, the teachings of the Church. That is why Arinze's name has come up and Mahoney's of L.A. has not. I've gotten weary of the media's constant death watch of JPII. It seems like they've been waiting for him to die for years. Maybe his time is near, maybe it isn't. I don't think it's his fragile health that has been sustaining him anyway. :cool: |
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Well, he's fooled us so far. But, just watching him these days is painful. It doesn't seem he can last much longer. |
I fall into the same category as others who have posted; I've fallen away from Catholicism and found a better option for myself with the Episcopal church.
However, I still look at the Pope as a spiritual leader, even if I don't agree with all his policies. He embodies Catholicism to me, and it's sad to see someone (anyone actually) deteriorate like this. Just a sad situation all in all. |
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Ben Bradlee (of the Washington Post) dated Sally Quinn for many many many years. He said, facetiously, that he'd marry her when there was a Polish Pope...and he did. ;) I agree that the media death watch of not just the Pope, but anyone who ages/grows infirm in public is horrid. |
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I couldn't have said it better mysalf, KSigkid. |
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Co-sign on the offensive nature of a couple of the posts in this thread; both posts took me for a loop. |
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Otherwise, the links that AlphaSigOU posted are sufficient. Cosign on all of the other posts re: celebrity death watch and off-color cheap shots on what is otherwise a suprisingly respectful thread. --add |
Adduncan, I hope you weren't refering to my post as being offensive when I mentioned the "death watch". I meant it with great respect to the Holy Father.
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I'm criticizing the media machine in that comment. --add |
I don't think anyone would refer to this fasicnation of the pope as a "death Watch"....i think he is widely admired by many and everyone would agree that they hate to see a pope, granddad, father, brother sister etc.... in such a state.
believe me i went through helpoing my mother who was the only child care and tend to my grand dad die of parkinsons and sometimes you wish it would end for the sake of the person so they wouldnt have to suffer any longer.......i dont want this thread to turn into an unrespectful thread or i will have it closed |
It's okay, Cutiepatootie... I think most of us are on the same page. I'm sorry about your grandfather. That must have been a really difficult time. I admire the compassionate care that your mother and you gave him.
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When I saw the television coverage Pope John Paul II at Lourdes, I felt very sad. I hope that he isn't suffering with his ailments. He is a very well respected man around the world by over one billion Catholics. It's nice to read that he is so well regarded by people who are not or are no longer Catholics.
I'm not sure who will be the next Pope. There are more intelligent and informed people than I who will make that decision. |
A few years back 60 minutes actually had a really interesting program about the Catholic church and supposed "front-runners" (I guess?) for the job. As a convert to Catholicism I found it extremely interesting. At that time they had mentioned the Archbishop of Paris who was a convert from Judaism as a child during WWII, a Cardinal in Africa (where they mentioned that there are Catholics that said they would cease being Catholic if the pope was black..to which several Jesuits said something like "Good, we don't need people like that as Catholics anyhow." and a Cardinal from Italy who speaks like 10 languages. (I think he's rather liberal and is the Bishop of Milan, but I can't remember right now.) They all basically agreed that it would not be a North American though.
Anyhow, just thought I'd ask if anyone else remembers that episode of 60mins. I'm bummed about JPII and his health, even if one is not Catholic, it's easy to recognize that he has been a good man. |
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In terms of the "death watch," most media folks would agree with you and feel very strange about pre-producing pieces. However, the public and the critics expect it, without realizing it. Look at all the good stuff they had ready at Reagan's passing. The viewers (and critics) are used to that and would be very critical if it weren't there. |
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He is concerned that Pope John Paul II has been in power for so long, that the College is completely loaded with conservatives. Therefore, the next Pope may also be conservative. He believes that whoever is the next Pope may not bring the reform that many believe is needed in the Catholic Church. |
Within Italy, there is a term that always crops up everytime there is a new Pope to elect: papabile, or 'he who has the makings of a Pope.' Those cardinals that are considered papabile are usually very senior men in the Curia (the Vatican government), but there are always longshots; Cardinal Wojtyla wasn't in anyone's sights as a papabile until he was elected. So much so, that incredulous Italians in St. Peter's Square, upon hearing his given name for the first time, questioned Un polacco? (A Pole?)
The vote in the College of Cardinals is strictly secret; violators run the risk of losing their cardinalate for unlawfully divulging privileged information during the Conclave. No one will know the identity of the next Pope until the Sacred Conclave elects him, the white smoke comes out of the chimney of the Sistine Chapel and the Cardinal Camerlengo (chamberlain) announces (in Latin) "Joyous tidings... we have a Pope!" |
If history gives us any guidelines, the next Pope will be Italian.
Nationality of Popes Of the 264 popes (262 to be exact because Pope Benedict IX, during the dreadful medieval fights between popes and anti-popes, was elected three times) 205 were Italians, (of whom 106 were Romans), and 57 foreigners; comprised of 19 Frenchmen, 14 Greeks, 8 Syrians, 5 Germans, 3 Africans, 2 Spaniards, 1 Austrian, 1 Palestinian, 1 Englishman, 1 Dutchman, and 1 Pole. I recall that the Italians were somewhat shocked at the election of John Paul II and speculation several years into his reign was that nobody but an Italian would follow him. That may not be true, but the Itialians have -- maybe had -- a huge majority in the College of Cardinals and could swing a lot of power. I'm sure that's been somewhat diluted by John Paul II. |
Here is a question:
Now we all know it will most likely be an italian or some foreign cardinal......has there ever been any nominations among cardinals for an american cardinal to be elected pope in the life of the catholic church or has it soley been a pretty much defined europeon role? |
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At least they follow closely the descriptions given our TV crews (see earlier post) by Cardinal Dearden and other coverage of past Papal Elections. Actually, I remember back in 1978, there was a fair amount of speculation involving foul play in the death of John Paul -- who died after only about a month in office. Nothing was ever proven, and it was probably just that -- speculation. But I'm certainly not besmirching the Church or the office of the Pope. So please relax -- there is no disrespect here. |
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Each time there has been a Papal election in my memory, media in cities who have Cardinals as Archbishop speculates about the chance of their Cardinal being elected. The truth, however, seems to be that the office has been overwhelmingly European. Of the US born Cardinals, Francis Cardinal Stafford, former Archbishop of Denver, has been very close to John Paul II, was instrumental in bringing World Youth Day to the US and was then taken to the Vatican to work closely with the Pope. But, outside the Vatican, hardly anyone knows of him. As a dumb question, wouldn't it seem strange to pick the next Pope from a country where the church has challanged the Vatican and is presently rocked by scandal? That's an honest question, not an accusation of any type. |
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JPII was and still is a great leader for the Church. Maybe a bit on the conservative side for us Americans. I really doubt though that we have any significant changes in the church with his succesor. But who knows? We could get a nother Pope John XXIII. He was a "comprimise" pope. He was elected at an old age and the college thought that he wouldn't have the time or energy to reform the Church. Well... we've all heard about Vatican II. :D This ain't the Republicans vs. the Democrats where no matter who we elect, basically, we'll end up with a predictable (and very similar) product. This is a secret and totally unpredictable process that in recent years has always turned out great leaders for the Church. For now though, I can't help to think what an amazing job JPII has done and how much his influence on the church will be missed. |
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