UNC rejects religious fraternity
 

Read The Article Here

Interesting. Wonder what everybody think about this?

Too lazy...can you copy/paste it here please.

UNC is such a silly place...

On another note...

GO WOLFPACK!!!

NC Lawmaker Vows to Stop Anti-Christian Bigotry at UNC-Chapel Hill

By Jim Brown and Rusty Pugh
August 13, 2004


(AgapePress) - A North Carolina congressman is calling for an investigation into a decision by the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill to deny recognition to another Christian student group.

UNC recently froze funding to the Alpha Iota Omega Christian fraternity, claiming the group's desire to limit its membership to Christians constitutes "discrimination.">

"This is unacceptable -- and I would say that if this was a Moslem group," the lawmaker emphasizes. "But it seems to me that young people of the Christian faith are being singled out, not only at the University of North Carolina but at other institutions of higher learning."

The North Carolina lawmaker believes UNC is engaging in blatant anti-Christian bigotry. Alluding to complaints lodged by the group Americans for Separation of Church and State against a Catholic bishop and against two Protestant churches, Jones perceives the UNC situation as "an extension ... of the extreme left in this country trying to undermine the Judeo-Christian principles of America." Such anti-Christian actions, he says, occur at universities as well as outside of academia.

Jones is expecting a report this month from the Department of Education's Civil Rights Division. He says he will do everything in his power to make sure the discrimination at UNC is stopped completely. "This office that I have the privilege to represent will shortly be looking into this and notifying the proper federal authorities that they need to look at this situation," he says.

IVF: Another UNC Case
In February, Jones urged state and federal officials to investigate a female professor at UNC who harassed a Christian student because of his biblical opposition to homosexuality. And in December 2002, the school refused to recognize another Christian group, the InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, because it wanted to restrict its leadership to Christians.

InterVarsity Andrea McAleenan says chapter leaders on every campus must be Christians -- but everyone is welcome.

"Our fellowships are very inclusive," she explains. "We have students from all religious backgrounds, and we also encourage people who are just looking for answers about their own spiritual journey and people who want to explore and think through that with other students who are, again, looking at those deep issues of life."

McAleenan says without Christians in leadership positions, InterVarsity chapters could not maintain their identity and mission.

"We feel that the leaders of the organization -- people who would be a chapter president, for example -- really need to be able to say that they believe in a Christian faith," the IVF spokeswoman says. "To not have that as an undergirding would [make it] pretty difficult ... to be the head of a chapter."

InterVarsity Christian Fellowship has chapters on hundreds of college campuses around the U.S.

UNC
 

Wow...these people sound like they have nothing better to do than cause trouble.

If this were an NPC or NIC group saying that they would only take people of a certain religious preference they would be off campus with no question. we've had many disscussions here about that same topic. I think what's problematic is that the groups say they are "only open to christian members". If you open your doors to everyone and then educate them before inviting them to join that you will only be disscussing, enjoying, christian ideas, you will likely only have people who are interested in that type of fellowship stick around anyway. We have religious/cultural groups on my campus such as the Black Student Caucus, and the Jewish Student Union, that work, study, and enjoy projects that support those communities/religious beliefs, but the groups are open to anyone who is interested. There are a few white and latino members of the BSC and a few non Jewish members of the JSU. They celebrate thier ideals, they just aren't exclusionary...and that's the problem.

I believe private organizations should have the right to determine their own membership.

Clubs and GLOs are not the same thing. One of their many differences is that GLOs determine their own membership. Also, student clubs are often times a "necessity".....cultural and religious organizations were established as support and advocacy groups. Membership in a fraternity is not a necessity. Being denied membership on the basis of religion, in an explicitly Christian fraternity, does not seem unreasonable to me.

the group is not banned from campus, they are simply barred from receiving student fees. no greek organization on our campus receives student fees either because they are exclusive by nature. would it be fair for a girl who was released from every house during npc recruitment to have to financially support the groups that denied her membership?

if this group wants to be selective in its membership, it needs to collect dues like every other similar group on campus. as a non-christian person, i do not want my hard-earned student fee money going to a group that would not have me as a member simply on the basis of my religion, just as i'm sure that students of other faiths would not want their student fee money going toward a group that constitutionally rejected everyone who was not of my faith. as a public school and therefore taxpayer-supported institution, unc cannot condone such a group. i do agree that private groups, such as my sorority, should be able to limit their membership exactly as they wish. however, i do not believe such a group should receive money from the students against which it discriminates.

practically speaking, trisigmaAtl is correct. if this group had just signed the non discrimination notice, thereby permitting them to receive student fees, and then proceeded to make perfectly clear the groups activities, objectives and ideals, i highly doubt that many non-christian students would even be interested in joining. and if they did, what would be the harm in that? generally, college students are not going to waste their time pursuing membership in an organization that does not align itself with their personal objectives. i support my school in its efforts to make the university of north carolina a welcoming and inclusive place to members of any group, and giving student fees to a naturally exclusive organization is not the way to do that.

TARHEEL GIRL: ditto on everything you said!!!

GLO's can receive money legally from the University. Usually we do so through our umbrella organizations -- IFC and NPC.

I believe that if a student organization wants to receive money from a public source, they cannot discriminate based on religion or race. I don't believe there is necessarily some rule that says you can't be selective.

at unc, one can be an officially recognized group but not receive student fee money (which is legislatively appropriated by student congress). most greek organizations are officially recognized but receive no funds.

from the unc student organizations website:

"Requirements

* The majority of the organization's members must be registered, full-time students of UNC Chapel Hill.
* All major officers must be registered, full-time students of UNC-CH.
* The organization must have an advisor who is a full-time faculty or staff member of UNC Chapel Hill or UNC Hospitals or extended the privileges thereof.
* The organization must provide a Statement of Purpose or Constitution and Bylaws.
* The organization must initial a statement of openness to full membership and participation and include such a statement in its Constitution and Bylaws or Statement of Purpose.

Privileges

* Officially recognized organizations may use specified University facilities, property, services, or equipment pursuant to the Facilities Use Policy.
* These organizations may use the University's name in their titles, so long as sponsorship or endorsement by the University is not implied or stated. If used, the title should follow one of these forms: "The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill," "UNC-CH," or "Carolina." Note: UNC is unacceptable
* These organizations may apply for funding from the Student Activities Fee, which is legislatively apportioned by Student Congress.
* These organizations may obtain assistance from the Division of Student Affairs, including leadership training, educational workshops, general organizational advising, major event planning, publicity, and reference materials.

Notes:

* Official recognition does not mean that the University endorses the viewpoints of the organization.
* Tax-exempt status is not extended when groups receive recognition."

in spite of my best effort, i cannot find the chart of how the student congress appropriated this year's money; however, i do know that exclusive organizations (not including performance groups that base membership on auditions) received nothing or very close to it. i know that young democrats and college republicans always receive a lot of money because they bring speakers and hold events that the whole campus can attend. however, student government didn't decide to freeze this group's funds (I assume they had appropriated a sum to them), the university did because they would not agree not to discriminate. that is really the bottom line.

as far as panhellenic and ifc, at unc i believe they collect dues from each member organization rather than drawing student fee money, although i may be misinformed.

I agree, but private groups don't have a right to public money.

$$$?
 

Why would UNC be giving money to student groups?

If you are a registered group, do they give you money?

Re: $$$?
 

Not necessarily, but you are ELIGABLE to receive funding. Example, your GLO wants to bring on speakers on say, risk management issues, then you could apply to a fund to pay for it. Or if you wanted to send a few undergrads to a leadership conference, you could apply to get funding to send a few members.

If youre a registered student group.


But if I had a dollar for every congresman that "called for an investigation' I'd be a millionare. I hate grandstanding. Ugh. House members are so trashy anyway.

Re: Re: $$$?
 

you'll probably bet set for life brah. :D

I know in my school, none of the greek organizations gets any sort of funding, wether from the school or the student government.

So basically,they student gov't had no real reason to not allow them membership. But that's also the student government's purpose. I kind of admire them for actually turning an organization down. We had a small problem with individuals that started clubs only to get a senate seat -- the clubs did NOTHING. I kind of led the charge against one of these groups which was approved by a margin of only 3 votes. Was such a waste.

They were called "El Burros Del Rio" (no, they had nothing to do with spanish/latino culture), their charter actually said their purpose was "Random acts of kindness". I could go off on a tangent here, but I won't :D

But as far as not voting an organization in because it's religious... well, I have concerns about that, but it's their right to do that as the representatives of the student body.

Up the road at NC STATE, Greek organizations can get money for philantrophy events. They gave ADpi $1,000 for a casino night fundraiser/party.

UNC has a Jewish fraternity, however, they do not limit membership to just jewish people

I think NC State Christian sorority has a Jew in it. At least a classmate of mine who was a sister in the group always wore the star of david.

I think the university made the right choice. The students in this group have every right to associate with one another on any basis they choose; they just can't receive a subsidy for doing so if the group is not open to all students.

Most campus religious organizations do not find this type of rule to be any kind of hindrance. Hillel Jewish student organizations, for example, are open to all. It does not prevent them from achieving their goal of serving the Jewish community or providing a space for Jewish fellowship.

I'm pretty disappointed that UNC is taking action like this. The Christian organizations at Elon are open to all students, regardless of whether or not they are Christians. I'm a firm believer that everyone should be accepted if they are willing to learn more about Christ. There have been several students that were "curious" about Christianity, so they check out a Christian organization and not only do they learn more about Christ, but they form new friends and fellowship.

So ironically, I believe that a Christian organization that excludes people defeats the purpose of being Christians. I hope I'm making sense to you guys :confused:

I can understand why UNC is not giving them money, although it does seem like they are slightly anti-Christian. Some of you seem to hold the opinion that the fraternity is being discrimatory, but there is a biblicall reason that most Christian glo's choose to be solely Christian. Its not a club, therefore it doesn't have to be open to everyone. Besides organizations fellowship and build friendships with non-Christians, but how can anyone expect non- Christians to join an organization whose sole purpose is to glorify Christ and evangelize. Thats a violation of both the organization's and the non-Christian's 1st amendment rights.

I've read your statement several times and am not really seeing where you're making the logical connection that this group somehow stops someone from practicing their religion, or how the University is doing that, or whatever. Please explain how the non-Christian's first amendment rights are being violated??

By that same line of reasoning you can say that churches are in violation of the 1st Amendment.

Please explain the connection you're trying to make here.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough
 

If a non-Christian joined a Christian fraternity or sorority, and requirements included things like mandatory bible studies, prayer sessions, evangelism, and the like, that is a violation because it forces people to participate in activities that go against their beliefs. I am not saying that AEO, or any organization, stops someone from practicing their faith, but rather if non-Christians were forced to intergrate fraternities and sororities that were solely Christian, they world have to participate in activities that wouldn't make them comfortable, and that is not right to the persons trying to affiliate. Its not fair to the Christian organizations to be forced to let non-Christians in if they beleive it goes against their faith.

Maybe we are on to different wavelengths but I dont understand how you drew that churches could be in violation of 1st amendments rights from what I said.

Elon is private. UNC is public.

Public institutions may not fund groups that exclude people based on religion. If this fraternity wanted to be Christian, but still allow others to join, then UNC, in my opinion, would be in the wrong. This is a fraternity that chooses to exclude people based on religious beliefs. This group should be allowed to exist, but it should not receive funding from a public institution.

Can't this group exist, they just are not "recognized" as a student organization. They still could get a house (good luck in UNC, most are $$$ and off campus) and hold meetings.

I think mandatory bible study defeats the purpose of a Christian Fraternity

Re: Maybe I wasn't clear enough
 

Because churches require you to participate in things like Bible studies, prayer sessions, evangalism and the like if you want to be a member -- by your line of reasoning, wouldn't that violate your 1st amendment rights?

I'm not saying that the campus has no right to do this -- as far as my understanding goes, they do. It's just your line of reasoning in my mind is a bit faulty. Their not funding groups that discriminate based on religion is not because those groups violate the 1st amendment. It's because they discriminate based on religion.


And I'm fine with it.

I fully support singleing out religious fanatics like that guy. No they shouldn't be let on if they discriminate on the basis of religion, that makes all frateries look bad, and if I ever saw them I would kick there ass with letters on.

Re: Maybe I wasn't clear enough
 

Nope. The Constitution only applies to government. The First Amendment only prevents the government from establishing religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

UNC is a public school and therefore an instrumentality of the government. There might be a First Amendment problem if UNC required Bible study. If UNC made it mandatory that students join an organization that had mandatory Bible study, there could be a First Amendment problem. But there simply is no First Amendment issue if a private organization, such as a Christian GLO, allows non-Christians to join but then has mandatory Bible study, prayer meetings, etc.

we haven't had a first amendment discussion in awhile, it was about due

I don't get the issue here. Essentially they are a GLO, who happen to be Christian based. I highly object to schools, public or private, funding our general accounts. The previous examples, like philanthropy fundraisers etc where money was given is a whole other potato. This was funding for an event and the event probably had to be open to the public to be eligible for a funding board. Totally different, we should be supported, if voting reps agree, when we do open campus events. The big issue is a group that flat out discriminates based on one factor, they should not be eligible for funding. Additionally, NPC, IFC and NPHC (i'm assuming) all have non-discriminatory clauses of the whole race, creed, etc but we reserve the right to discriminate based on sex. This is why we pay dues, among other reasons, and why this group should as well if they wish to have funds.

sorry if i'm incoherrent. my mind is foggy from work. :)

if this group is a fraternity....and unc doesn't fund any of the fraternities or sororities there....then why did this group think they should be funded?

This faternity at UNC has NEVER received or intends to EVER receive a dime of UNC student fees. Members pay dues just like any other faternity. They are only asking that they be able to reserve rooms, info tables, etc. which is paid for by tax dollars NOT student fees. Besides every other recognized faternity at UNC is able to enjoy these same privileges. To deny a group access to public rooms that are paid for with state taxes would be like telling a religious or atheistic group they cannot reserve an area and hold functions in a public park. This is absolutely unconstitutional as the government would be denying these groups expression on public property which their tax dollars paid for as well.

As far as "opening up the doors" and letting people know what they believe is not at issue, what is at issue is that UNC is attempting to force them to sign a policy that would require them to accept MEMBERS, not visitors, of all religions. Let's be realistic if it is a religious organization, then obviously they hold to a particular faith, and just maybe it was founded to share that faith, not faiths, otherwise the organization would lose it's identity and purpose. This issue is not the same as a Latino or Korean joining the Black Student Movement, as their being of a different ethnicity does not in anyway compromise the goal or mission of that group. Furthermore if this group did sign a policy that they have no intention of adhering to then maybe they should find a new religion or at least one that condones dishonesty.

I've read the press reports, this group is not refusing to associate with certain people or telling people to hate certain groups, it's simply reserving the right to be selective in it's membership, no different then any other faternity.

AGAIN THIS FATERNITY AT UNC HAS NEVER RECEIVED OR EVER INTENDS TO RECEIVE FUNDS FROM THE SCHOOL.