Is Barak Obama speaking Bill Cosby's words?
 

It's not my battle but I figured some people might be interested in it. Anyway discuss.

Breaking the Silence
By HENRY LOUIS GATES JR.

Published: August 1, 2004


Go into any inner-city neighborhood," Barack Obama said in his keynote address to the Democratic National Convention, "and folks will tell you that government alone can't teach kids to learn. They know that parents have to parent, that children can't achieve unless we raise their expectations and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white." In a speech filled with rousing applause lines, it was a line that many black Democratic delegates found especially galvanizing. Not just because they agreed, but because it was a home truth they'd seldom heard a politician say out loud.

Why has it been so difficult for black leaders to say such things in public, without being pilloried for "blaming the victim"? Why the huge flap over Bill Cosby's insistence that black teenagers do their homework, stay in school, master standard English and stop having babies? Any black person who frequents a barbershop or beauty parlor in the inner city knows that Mr. Cosby was only echoing sentiments widely shared in the black community.

"If our people studied calculus like we studied basketball," my father, age 91, once remarked as we drove past a packed inner-city basketball court at midnight, "we'd be running M.I.T." When my brother and I were growing up in the 50's, our parents convinced us that the "blackest" thing that we could be was a doctor or a lawyer. We admired Hank Aaron and Willie Mays, but our real heroes were people like Thurgood Marshall, Dr. Benjamin Mays and Mary McLeod Bethune.

Yet in too many black neighborhoods today, academic achievement has actually come to be stigmatized. "We are just not the same people anymore," says the mayor of Memphis, Dr. Willie W. Herenton. "We are worse off than we were before Brown v. Board," says Dr. James Comer, a child psychiatrist at Yale. "And a large part of the reason for this is that we have abandoned our own black traditional core values, values that sustained us through slavery and Jim Crow segregation."

Making it, as Mr. Obama told me, "requires diligent effort and deferred gratification. Everybody sitting around their kitchen table knows that."

"Americans suffer from anti-intellectualism, starting in the White House," Mr. Obama went on. "Our people can least afford to be anti-intellectual." Too many of our children have come to believe that it's easier to become a black professional athlete than a doctor or lawyer. Reality check: according to the 2000 census, there were more than 31,000 black physicians and surgeons, 33,000 black lawyers and 5,000 black dentists. Guess how many black athletes are playing professional basketball, football and baseball combined. About 1,400. In fact, there are more board-certified black cardiologists than there are black professional basketball players. "We talk about leaving no child behind," says Dena Wallerson, a sociologist at Connecticut College. "The reality is that we are allowing our own children to be left behind." Nearly a third of black children are born into poverty. The question is: why?

Scholars such as my Harvard colleague William Julius Wilson say that the causes of black poverty are both structural and behavioral. Think of structural causes as "the devil made me do it," and behavioral causes as "the devil is in me." Structural causes are faceless systemic forces, like the disappearance of jobs. Behavioral causes are self-destructive life choices and personal habits. To break the conspiracy of silence, we have to address both of these factors.

"A lot of us," Mr. Obama argues, "hesitate to discuss these things in public because we think that if we do so it lets the larger society off the hook. We're stuck in an either/or mentality - that the problem is either societal or it's cultural."

It's important to talk about life chances - about the constricted set of opportunities that poverty brings. But to treat black people as if they're helpless rag dolls swept up and buffeted by vast social trends - as if they had no say in the shaping of their lives - is a supreme act of condescension. Only 50 percent of all black children graduate from high school; an estimated 64 percent of black teenage girls will become pregnant. (Black children raised by female "householders" are five times as likely to live in poverty as those raised by married couples.) Are white racists forcing black teenagers to drop out of school or to have babies?

Mr. Cosby got a lot of flak for complaining about children who couldn't speak standard English. Yet it isn't a derogation of the black vernacular - a marvelously rich and inventive tongue - to point out that there's a language of the marketplace, too, and learning to speak that language has generally been a precondition for economic success, whoever you are. When we let black youth become monolingual, we've limited their imaginative and economic possibilities.

These issues can be ticklish, no question, but they're badly served by silence or squeamishness. Mr. Obama showed how to get the balance right. We've got to create as many opportunities as we can for the worst-off - and "make sure that every child in America has a decent shot at life." But values matter, too. We can't talk about the choices people have without talking about the choices people make.

Reaad the rest at http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/01/op...1gates.html?hp

-Rudey

Re: Is Barak Obama speaking Bill Cosby's words?
 

What Bill Cosby and Obama have been saying is nothing new to us. It's just a shock to White folks. I think some people believe that since there are Black people(Condi, Colin, and Rod) in high positions in the White House all is well. Don't let 'em fool you, we have not gotten to the Promised Land, yet.

I still don't understand why Bill Cosby's words were so controversial. I grew up hearing the same things! The "mainstream" press considered his words "divisive," while "black" sources seemed to be more bored with it than anything.

Obama is right on target with his view that Americans are, for the most part, anti-intellectual.

Maaybe
 

Maybe Bush- Cheney will offer Barack Obama some important job after they are re-elected.

*passes out at the thought of Bush/Cheney being re-elected*

*Fanning some air for Epitome 1920*

I got to hear some of Obama's speech. I do agree that He was on point.

I honestly think Obama's and Cosby's opinions apply to everyone, not just a certain race or group of people. I honestly think everyone should try harder. :)

Cosby and Obama have hit the nail square on the head.

Some of my friends and I have spent our youths paying the cost of anti-intellectualism in the black community. In my case specifically I paid the price in seperation from other blacks. When I was young I was constatly made fun of for being "white" because I was well-spoken and intellectual. On top of this I was from a family that was doing pretty well financially, as a result I lived in a "white" area of town. One result of this was most of my friends being white. (There are many other factors of how I was raised but those don't apply as strongly.) This never went over very well in school. It was a good day if I was only called a "sell out" or "white" once or twice. This was all in late elementary and early middle school when I was bussed across town to go to some of the better schools in the district, most of which were located in "black" areas of town. By the time I graduated middle school I was convinced black people hated me. The only good that came out of this was my realization that if black people didn't like me and white people would never fully accept me, then everyone must be pretty much equal and should be treated as such. As a result I picked my friends on terms of character and similarity to myself, skin was never a factor. By the time I graduated high school I was very distant from most of my black peers. But what has got to bother me the most is that even in college I see many of the same attitudes continuing to thrive. I still see the glances and hear what people say behind my back. I love how so many educated blacks still hold onto the same bad ideas they had when they were younger. The perfect example was my freshman year living with two other black guys; we got along great at home but in public they never wanted to associate with me cause I was too white-seeming. I love how there are so few of us in college to begin with and as you advance the numbers grow fewer and fewer. There is so much ot over come that if we do not start early and change our way of thinking, we will never do it.

Tupac said it best in "Changes" when he said "We gotta make a change...
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive." Funny how many people love(d) that song but never hear(d) what it says.

Completely forgot to mention my best friend's side. Long story short, he used to get beat up. He lived in the same neighborhood wiht his tomentors so they used to find him outside of school, kick his ass and break his CDs if he was listening to "white" music when they found him.

Did you ever engage in conversation with your Black peers about this? Or did you allow them to ridicule you and say nothing? I also experienced the 'acting' or 'talking' White comments. However, I did not allow that to dictate my friendships and relationship with the Black community...

Re: Re: Is Barak Obama speaking Bill Cosby's words?
 

This sounds good, but its not true. Its not shocking to many white folks, its just that they can't publicly say these things because though they'd be telling the truth, they'd be ran out of town and called racists. Its no secret that our community has been on the decline for a while, its just that now prominent black leaders are starting to speak out about it...and in MANY circles they are not being received well. Take Greek Chat for instance. I have been called Uncomfortable in My Own Skin....and all types of things because I refuse to let folks blame "whitey" for their problems while skirting responsibility. I've been told I shouldn't say the things I say in mixed company or shouldn't air our dirty laundry (this means shouldn't talk about this stuff in the ear shot of white folks). I said all that to say that many people just don't want to hear the truth..unless it coincides with what they believe.

And lastly, I think its so sad that because people disagree with the policies of Condoleeza Rice, Colon Powell and Rod Paige, that they refer to them as tokens or insignificant. Some black folks don't want to admit that Bush has opened more doors for black folks in his 4 years than the Dems have in the last 8! Its funny, when black people hold positions for the first time, its usually celebrated..but since they're EVIL REPUBLICANS, they're demonized.

Re: Re: Re: Is Barak Obama speaking Bill Cosby's words?
 

I don't think our community is on the decline. Saying that is denying the work that organizations (and individuals) like mine do on a daily basis. I don't care that Condi, Colin or Rod (who is my fraternity brother) are Republicans. I just think they don't speak unless spoken to.

Co-sign, I grew up hearing the "speaking white comments", living in mostly white neighborhoods and SOME blacks not wanting to associate with me because of where I lived. But I continued to engage with my people and not judge or turn my backs on them, because when you condemn those that taunt you, you become just as bad as they are. My family also kept me aware of who i was and the struggles that our people have endured.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Barak Obama speaking Bill Cosby's words?
 

Well you don't "think" the community is on the decline..I'm talking about facts.

"The black family has crumbled more in the last 30 years than it did in the entire 14 decades since slavery." Dr. Julian Hare. Dir. - San Francisco Black Think Tank.

Please visit www.saveus.org and take a look at the Portrait of the Black family. I quote this website often because though its not a pretty picture of our community, it lays out factual info. If you question the stats, research them on your own...but you won't find significant differences in these figures.

They don't speak unless spoken to? So what should they be doing? HOlding press conferences?

My fiance and I were talking about this last night. He thinks the "acting white" stigma has gotten worse in the last 10 years or so. He is Puerto Rican and grew up in the South Bronx. He did excellent in school and was a "golden chid" to the teachers. He then attended Cornell. However, he never had anyone accuse him of acting "white". He said people - adults and his peers - we're very proud of him. He has some nephews now who are in their early 20's and he thinks they hold themsleves back because they don't want to seem like they are "selling out". He's trying to mentor them and it seems to be working for one, but not so much the other...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Barak Obama speaking Bill Cosby's words?
 

More Facts



The statistics presented in this document are interesting. However, it doesn't say where they come from. Did this religious organization conduct a survey??

Who am I to say what they should be doing?? I'm not in their shoes, I just notice that they rarely speak out on issues that affect the Black community.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Barak Obama speaking Bill Cosby's words?
 

Well if you point out what they're not doing, I thought you had a suggestion for what they should be doing...but I see you're just putting that out there, so thats cool.
What issues do you feel affect the black community that they should be speaking out on? And is this the responsibility of the Secretary of State and the National Security Advisor?

My rant....
And as far as your stats, your "facts" do nothing to disprove or even address the issues I posted. Education, money, the economy, etc are not the reasons why the black community is in the current state it is. Our family units were tighter when we had less money, less education, and less opportunities. The problem is the dismantling of the family.


....but back to Brak....:D

I posted those statistics to prove that anyone can pull something out of the sky that will prove their point. That's a known fact.

You chose to provide information saying that there are issues with our community and provide no plausible solutions. So the purpose of this dialogue is what??

I'm done.

you were done before you started lol...If there was no purpose, you shouldn't have engaged in it :D

Naw, I just see this going back and forth. Something I don't have energy for today. :D

Both Obama abd Cosby are on point with their comments. People may not like where or how they say it, but it needs to be said because yes, some of our coomunities are in serious decline. Now granted that doesn't negate what good things people/organizations are trying to do. If anything, it should be a call to ALL OF US to do something and to not depend on someone else (whether black, white, the gov't, NAACP, whomever) to be our "saving grace".

Yes I did, several times. The typical response was less than stellar. Don't get me wrong, I may not have been close to my black peers but I never let that limit me. You can only hang out with people that want to hang out with you. I have not yet nor will I ever give up on my people.

Coming from someone who was treated like utter shit from both white and black people, I'm glad I am not the only person who feels this way.

Join the club. No one is immune from being bogusly (is that a word? it is now)

I wonder what would have happened if Bush went to the NAACP convention and gave the same speech that Barak gave?

BLACK FAMILY PLEDGE
 

BLACK FAMILY PLEDGE
By Dr. Maya Angelou
Because we have forgotten our ancestors our children no longer give us honor.

Because we have lost the path our ancestors cleared, kneeling in perilous undergrowth, our children cannot find their way.

Because we have banished the God of our ancestors, our children can not pray.

Because the long wails of our ancestors have faded beyond our hearing, our children cannot hear us crying.

Because we have abandoned our wisdom of mothering and fathering, our befuddled children give birth to children they neither want nor understand.

Because we have forgotten how to love, the adversary is within our gates, and holds us up to the mirror of the world, shouting, Regard the loveless.

Therefore, we pledge to bind ourselves again to one another;
To embrace our lowliest,
To keep company with our loneliest,
To educate our illiterate,
To feed our starving,
To clothe our ragged,
To do all good things, knowing that we are more than keepers of our brothers and sisters. We are our brothers and sisters.

In honor of those who toiled and implored God with golden tongues, and in gratitude to the same God who brought us out of hopeless desolation,

We make this pledge.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Barak Obama speaking Bill Cosby's words?
 

• Percentage of African-American adults in 1960 who had completed high school: 20.1%
• Percentage of African-American adults in 2002 who had completed high school: 78.7% (U.S. Department of Education)


• Percentage of black schoolchildren ages 5 to 17 in 1979 who had at least one parent who graduated from high school: 49.9%
• Percentage of black schoolchildren ages 5 to 17 in 2001 who had at least one parent who graduated from high school: 87.7% (National Center for Education Statistics)

• Percentage of all 16- to 24-year-old blacks in the United States in 2000 who were high school dropouts: 13.1% (National Center for Education Statistics

Must we really post stats all day?? I'm sorry for having faith in my community.:rolleyes:

It would cause an uproar. Why? Intentions. Barack is concerned with improving the conditions of African-Americans, our President does not (I'll extend that statement to include the impoverished as well).


And enough with the Stats! We should all know by now that one can find stats to support ANY argument.

It definitely would have caused an uproar but I think its because the African American community doesn't like anyone that's not African American to call them out on certain behaviors. As you can see, when I post things, I get called names all day and is accused either self hate or not having faith in my community. Look at how Bill Cosby is treated. Some people prefer to look at the world through Rose Colored Glasses while others like myself like to be realistic.

Look, all of us are lumped into one helluva hole and the only way is to die out of it...

"Who made this world like this??? I'm the wrong color and the wrong sex!"
--June Jordon


Anyhow, the best we can do is to be of service... Help out... Git in where you fit in... Everybody can use some kind of help, whether they ask for it or not...

I am tired of the low self-esteems and the horrendous "sadistics" that plague my community... There are so many negatives... I guess when you multiply them, you get positives??? :confused:

But, I know I have been there and I've done that... I have worked "spirit filled" and "joyously" to uplift those of African descent, and have met resistance amongst those I had considered for the best support. But, "life for me, ain't been no crystal stair..."

Besides, angels do not come in colors that we can see nor comprehend...

Bush attended the National Urban League convention. A "Bougie" convention--or a "buppie" convention. I was suppose to go, but I could not for prior commitments... Bush attended that convention because he know he can get a few folks to vote for him there, whereas, he voting numbers would have been zero if he attended the NAACP. So he recused himself from going, quite lamely might I add--saying he was not going to put himself in harms way... In some ways, I can understand it... In many ways, I'm thinking, don't be a punk... But the National Urban League has Fortune 500 $$$ and can pay for Bush speaking fees...

NAACP has what???

Do any of you all pay for membership in the NAACP???

I know I use to. I do not now. I have not had the need or the money to lay out those kinds of dollars yet. Besides, who runs the local NAACP chapters are still stuck in the "we shall overcome" days of civil rights... The question to ask is, "is it working?"

The National Urban League fits into my lifestyle now. It has newer and fresher ideas to maintain civil rights for all people. Maybe Bush sees it, maybe he doesn't? I dunno...

As far as Black Families declining...

I have my own Black Family... My husband and I are our own family and we do things that are culturally relevant on a daily basis... Things simply as hair care...

Families are declining in general. It is hard to stay married when it is easier to be single, get paid more, pay less taxes. It is lonely being single, but you are in waaay more debt when folks have legal arrangements signed by the court... In fact, there is the marriage penalty...

If our Government does not condone support folks marriages--or legal unions--from a pure economic standpoint, then why be with anybody for any length of time unless you love that person???

Just asking...

i liked obama's speech.....he sounded like a republican. :)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Barak Obama speaking Bill Cosby's words?
 

Thanks for the FACTS, I heard that 50 percent nonsense fall out of Cosby's mouth during his FIRST rant in DC. It turn my stomach to listen to a educated man spit such nonsense. It was just as bad, f not worse, as frat (Paige) calling the teacher's union a terriost organization. It's sad when we take "made up" stats and pass them off as truth only to belittle our respective races.

Been saying this for the longest. It isn't just a black problem. Women being abuse isn't just a black problem. Kids dropping out of school isn't just a black problem. We got to look at society as a whole when you talk about things like this.

Well if there are no specific black problems then really there is no need for anyone to talk about the black community and how politicians don't address their problems.

-Rudey

I totally agree with you on this. I'm learning to stay out of these types of discussions on GC, but I had to jump in here. It's not just the black family that is on the decline, it's the human race.

Yes, there are some in the black community not holding up their end of the bargain. Yes, some need better parenting skills, more education and a more innate spirit of determination. I can't deny that. But that's not MY reality. I was raised by two parents, as were most of my friends. I've gone to some of the best schools, I work my ass off every day, I don't plan to have children out of wedlock and I'd like to think I contribute to society on a daily basis. Most of the people in my circle live similar lives. So, why I am supposed to defend the actions of those who decided, consciously or due to circumstance, not to better themselves? I don't ask white people to speak up for their Uncle Bubba living in the backwoods of Kentucky, having relations with his daughter every night. Or Aunt Sally from the trailer park who spends her entire welfare check on Vicodin or at "the Walmart". All I can do is make sure my house is in order and be an example to those coming after me.

The fact is, we live in a classist society. There is always going to be a lower class in every race. Why is it front page news because Cosby/Obama acknowledges this?:confused: I really think this a case of some non-black people (and some black people) taking this opportunity to look down on "those lazy, ignorant blacks" because it makes them think their own shit don't stink. Guess what? Roses really smell like boo boo. I read the paper, I watch the news, and I know from personal experiences that there are lots and lots of degenerate white people (and every other race) out there. The black people on here shucking and jiving and agreeing with this nonsense seem to think, or at least hope, that looking down on other blacks separates them from the pack. I just don't get how some of you on here sit around agreeing with the masses, posting slanted statistics, saying, "yeah, my race is in an awful state, isn't it?" Well, where does that place you? And better yet, what are YOU doing about it?

What I don't get is why this is being discussed ad nauseam over here. Why discuss it if 1) it is not relevant to you and/or 2) you have no desire to help remedy the situation? For those of you that have said this type of stuff "needs to be said" (Honeykiss, I got this from your post), my question is, why? What good does it do? The audience who needs to hear it isn't listening and probably wouldn't give a damn if they were.

When has anyone on here said that we want politicians to address the "problems" being discussed in this thread?:confused: I don't expect politicians to take the crack pipe out of someones hand, make someone speak "proper" English or take better care of their children. What I do expect politicians to do is ensure that there is equal opportunity to education, housing, employment, etc... The only reason those tend to be "black problems" is because those basic rights are often not afforded to us.

I guess its ok to reply to countless thread on GC about how tacky some of OUR people can be (when it comes to behaviors, clothing, etc.) or even the countless threads about a certain problem disproportionately affecting the black community (AIDS, incarceration rates, etcs.) , but NOW - its taboo according to some because its not in an NPHC thread? Now having dialogue about the problems of the black community and what to do about them has someone been turned into "I'm better than those negros" attitude?? Ok, I am officially SMH now. All this because of WHERE this thread is? I guess this is the same thing as Bill making his comments in front of a non-black audience as he did with his first speach.

As I said in same post that Bamboozled has referenced, maybe these types of discussions will motivate people (who currently aren't doing a thing) to do something – ANYTHING. The actions of one person does make a difference.

I've been SMH for a while now too, so that makes two of us. I usually don't have much input in the threads you're referencing, so I really can't speak on that. But yes, I guess I do appoint different levels of importance to tacky clothes and stereotyping an entire race of people. And, if you noticed, I said that I think some white people take this as an opportunity to think they're better and that some black people use it as an opportunity to separate themselves from the pack. I wasn't specifically talking about you.

And I guess, in a small way, I do have a problem with WHERE this is being discussed. Would you go to an Atheist message board to figure out how to be a better Christian? I just don't think a lot of people over here are interested in DOING anything about our "problems". They'd rather just discuss them.

VERY VERY good point Rudey. Some people want it both ways...they want to say there are no problems in the black community (any different from other communities) but at the same time they want to know how a candidate plans on reaching out to specific problems that face the african american community...:confused: I think some people get caught up in the debating that they don't realize what they're saying doesn't make sense.

^5!
Dang girl, you're the only person I can quote and don't have much to add! :p