Hazing accusations that aren't that serious...
 

Are there any instances where people will try and charge an org for hazing them that wasn't that serious IYO? You know, some petty stuff that is considered hazing would be something like not being able to go to the side of the campus where the opposite sex's dormitories are? You know little harmless things like that. Then that org ends up going to court just because someone said that they had to help clean up a sidewalk or something. :rolleyes:

Imperial1

I would just say to anyone who is involved in bringing in a new member "is it worth losing your chapter". In this day and age its better to be safe then without a chapter.

I knew a fraternity at another campus that got in trouble for a tradition they have called "Loud Lunch". Everyone (brothers and new members) goes around and stands up on chairs and they loudly introduce themselves. Usually one of the brothers starts a food fight for a comment one of the other brothers said. Well this past year a new member got hit with a grape (yup...a grape) and called the organization's hazing hotline. The chapter was suspended until January (it happened in August) and the executive council at the time was expelled from the fraternity.

I think this is one instance where it might have been taken to an extreme. I don't know if this is what really happened, but I had enough friends in the chapter to hear 90% of what went on in the house on a regular basis so I'm pretty sure that the person who called the hotline was someone who wasn't prepared for life at Wabash College in general. Wabash is an all male college with some pretty wild traditions. For example, they have chapel sing, which is where they have to scream the fight song at the top of their lungs while the Sphinx Club (elite invite only spirit organization) throws tabasco sauce and other gross stuff on them. I think that chapel sing (a university sponsored event) would be more traumatizing than getting hit by food during a food fight.

It's all fun and games until someone get hits with a grape.

Some trouble-maker girls from another org in undergrad would drive around our house all nite long to "try" to catch us doing something illegal. It was beyond ridiculous, especially because we didn't do anything "illegal". It is interesting that a lot of "rival" orgs don't understand that when they start getting petty like this and try to bring other orgs down, it affects ALL orgs on that campus negatively. Just my 2-cents.

Re: Hazing accusations that aren't that serious...
 

Herein is the problem. A lot of things considered hazing are over the line ridiculous -- "In My Opinion."

Probably yours, too.

But our opinions don't matter.

The vague laws and international rules do.

All hazing accusations are serious and should be treated that way.

I'm not disputing this, I just think that in the instance that I mentioned (in which the chapter was fully re-instated, but the executive council was expelled from the fraternity) it was something that everyone participated in willingly, and wasn't meant for the new members to feel uncomfortable. Rather it was something to get to know everyone better, and while yelling out your information is obnoxious it's not life threatening.

I guess maybe because I've heard all the stories about other fraternities at Wabash College doing worse things I don't think a food fight is troublesome.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jharb
[B]I'm not disputing this, I just think that in the instance that I mentioned (in which the chapter was fully re-instated, but the executive council was expelled from the fraternity) it was something that everyone participated in willingly, and wasn't meant for the new members to feel uncomfortable. Rather it was something to get to know everyone better, and while yelling out your information is obnoxious it's not life threatening.


You know I've actually known people in GLO's who have actually started doing stuff on their own as new members that would be considered hazing looking from the outside in because they thought that they would be hazed and were disappointed when they weren't. Just an aside.

We used to joke about it when i was a new member. "Please haze me! All I do is get presents!" Or a group of new members would hang out with actives and we'd say "While I'm up do you want to haze me and have me get you something?" We never meant it, and I'm sure if we were hazed it would have been different.

So, if they force you to accept presents you don't want or need, is that hazing?

Hahaha...hmm...Possibly! I WAS HAZED! :p

In all honesty I loved all of the presents I received and I was glad that my organization didn't haze. My new member period was nothing but fun.

It's true.

I remember our VP Social (also our New Member educator...aka Pledge Mom :D ) saying that some girls had said they wanted to be hazed. Now I'm sure they didn't mean, take us out to the woods blindfolded and make us find our way back to campus in below freezing temperatures. But rather do things that we can't do know because it can be considered hazing, like scavenger hunts, provided the tasks weren't ridiculous, like stealing a fraternity man' underwear and raising it up the flagpole. But ratehr have a new member and an initiate sister pair up and walk around campus looking for easy to get items or looking for other sisters, as a ways to get to know each other.

Good point. What seems to happen is that the mindset of the chapter is "well, we didn't get caught or get in trouble, so why not something else....", and it literally becomes a slippery slope or downward spiral - the risk of escalating from a "minor" to a "major" hazing practice is all too real - it makes the headlines.

You either get lucky if they are not caught, and put a stop to it, or, you wind up with a catastrophe down the road...

That story is similar to something that happened with my org during the time we were doing MIP. Some chicks from another sorority I guess were a little upset that they went through a process that they didn't want to go through. So when we were conducting our MIP, they all were mysteriously around the way whenever we were doing our rush activities before we even started conducting MIP. And then like sometime after the rush was over, one of them sent some "anonymous" email saying that my org, our brother org and another fraternity was hazing people when we wasn't. So that be the case, we had to take a pause in our MIP process as well as the other orgs who were accused of hazing because of that "anonymous" email.

Imperial1

Re: my school
 

it also upsets me that another fraternity would go out of its way to get this group in trouble... sending it directly to the school paper? all this really does is give greeklife a bad image...

i dont know.. [/B][/QUOTE]

It's interesting because I think I've matured a lot since undergrad (well I hope LOL :D). I think many of us at that age are more prone to get caught up in the rivalry BS and not see the damage that could be caused to EVERY GLO down the road. Especially with females, because females are so catty. You know how much drama I saw go on in undergrad that was based on RUMORS and second, third, and eighth degree information?! It also all goes back to the one or two bad apples thread. Overall I think in instances like the one's mentioned PEOPLE ARE NOT THINKING ABOUT CONSEQUENCES and acting impulsively, and not looking out for the greater good, especially the good of their organization.

Isn't it remarkable how many chapters record these things either on film or videotape?

Then we all sit around and talk about how stupid they are/were for taking the pictures?

Of course, if they didn't break the rules, the recordings wouldn't exist and nobody would have to worry about it.

We as Greeks have to Only Look at Alfred College (or Un.) from NY!

There is or was a Greekdom of Locals and National Greeks.

A local did something where a pledge died. All Greeks were So adjuged and were DisPelled, DeChartered or anything else you want to call it.

Greeks Are No Longer There!

So, That is where Risk Management can take you, right or wrong.:(

Doing it is wrong, recording it is stupidity!

Should be gone!:rolleyes:

I understand that hazing is wrong and all of that but on the real, if folks are getting chapters suspended just for having to learn about the organization in which they took interest in and wanted to join, then why the hell should we be initiating people in our orgs. If that's the case, all of us may as well put on a pair of rollerblades with a piece of paper and a pen to write with in our hands. :rolleyes:

Imperial1

You mean we don't do that??

Either that or be expelled.

Imperial1

hazing? what's that?

<---wasn't hazed in anyway...YAY!!!!

:cool:

:D

Imperial1

But if you put the pen in their right hand and they're left-handed, that's hazing (implying there is a correct hand to write with). What are you trying to do, destroy the whole Greek system? :p

ROFLOL. Yeah FIPG has really made life difficult.

i love that instead of educating chapters about what's hazing, how to identify, prevent and deal with it, nationals just makes these sweeping prohibitions that are indicative of a litigious culture, like no scavenger hunts, no men on bid day (even bands or singing groups!), no tests and even no new member meetings (because 'singling out' a group of sisters = hazing)...how many chapters have programming on hazing that's more than once a year? if there was more contact and control over chapters - or we refused to initiate idiots or sadistic morons into our system - we wouldn't have to ban the stupid stuff that obviously isn't hazing :p

Yeah. The only thing you can say in defense of the National(s) is that the hazing laws in every state are probably completely different, but all encompassing and vague, so, out of self defense, the national organization just bans everything that could be even close to hazing under the most liberal definition.

Shoot, it was destroyed before the system was even created. Cause somebody's name didn't have the first letter in their name capitalized. lol

Imperial1

While many make light of the Hazing Laws, it is not really funny HAHA! Is is funny Sad.

Things have become so P C simply for the fact that Insurance and Law Suits have become the vogue that one must ask, who in the heck can afford it.

Yes, it has become so damn ridiculous that no it is not funny!

Certain things need to be deleted from each Greek Organization, but to not have New Members Learn about Your Greek Organization, Chapter History and studying to make GPA to Be Initiated and stay Active. Now, I just feel, there is a cause to draw the line.:mad:

Isnt the reason that people go to college is learn and graduate?

That's so true. Things are definitely starting to go overboard. Technically making someone where a pledge or new member pin is hazing. Personally, I think it's respecting the organization in which you hope to become a member.

to the post about the kid gettin hit with a grab..

his whiney ass didnt need to be there then apparently if a grape causes enuff concern that he calls the hazing hotline..

haha...That's how I felt! The kid was a legacy too which makes it even stranger! You'd think he would have heard mad hazing stories since his dad was from that chapter back in the late sixties when it wasn't taboo to have things like that happening.