Frat
 

Why do we use that damndable term "frat?" We were taught back in the 50s that high school kids and ignorant reporters were
the only ones who said "frat."
Why cannot we dignify our organizations by referring to them as
"fraternity/fraternities" instead of the sophomoric term "frat."
We deserve better.

MOST of them do however.

I haven't heard of any of the guys on campus here being offended by that...

Fraternity
 

I think this sums up quite nicely what Sigma Chi, and others as well, feel. From the Alpha Omega Chapter of Sigma Chi Fraternity (Stanford University).

We are a Fraternity, not a frat. Sigma Chi is committed to bringing together a group of ambitious men with varying interests who share a common goal: the desire to have a great time and form a close group of brothers. We bring together awesome athletes, musicians, and campus leaders to form a fraternity of truly amazing people.

Alpha Omega Chapter

LOL I'd say it is an NIC thing, but I don't think it's too hard to comprehend. The majority of NIC fraternities do not look favorably on the use of the word "frat" because of its negative connotations in the non-Greek world. It is viewed as a disrespectful abbreviation. A typical comment would be, "We're not frat guys, we're fraternity men." I will refrain from the "You wouldn't call your country..." line because I am sure it will be posted somewhere later in this thread.

From what I know of NPHC orgs, they use the word "frat" similar to how female orgs would say "soror". I think it's nice- it's like a familiar nickname of sorts for all members of your org. Most NIC fraternities do not use the word in this manner, though.

well the way i see it, there is a difference between a frat guy and a fraternity guy. the frat guy would be the "stereotypical" animal house guy who is in it for parties and thats about it. A fraternity guy is the guy who parties, but there is more to it than that for him.

When I was in college, I never used the word "frat". I guess it was just a habit, but guys would get offended.

would you be preferred to call those cuties in letters?

good answers
 

yes, good answers and I feel better.
users of "frat" simply have no manners, no matter where they go
to school. I doubt their organization endorses "frat."
We have ushered in an era of lowering a lot of our standards,
but, then, there are a lot of folks who do not belong in the higher education institutions. I would consider those who use "frat" to
to among them. You may disagree, but my statement is firm, and
there is a place for manners in the Fraternity...

Re: good answers
 

Re: good answers
 

Erik, I agree with you! It's like referring to someone from Kuwait as an AY-RAB. Using "frat" just makes you sound like low-class trash...please don't.

This does not apply to NPHC members of course. They have used it in a very proper manner over the years.

ok, so this is what I've been told since forever by my mother who was in a sorority in the late 70's:

she says the fraternity guys on her campus told her, "you don't abbreviate your country so don't abbreviate your fraternity"
(and by abbreviate your country, they mean pronounce country w/o the "ry"...just pronounce the beginning of the word = dirty word that I'm not gonna post ;) )

Kinda weird...but I never say "frat" due to this lil reminder :)

This may be a dumb question but is the use of the word "soror" common among NPC sororities?

I've never even heard "soror" until now.

It doesnt bother me. Sometimes I use the term myself, in a non-derogatory way.

yea i dont ususally use it really either, the thing about the "frat guy" is just what i have been told bye frineds in a fraternity. i think frat just sounds dumb anyways.

I was more vigilant about it in college, but I've used the term a few times. I try not to, but it happens.

It's just one of those things that is ok in some orgs, not ok in other orgs. Just another difference among the many GLO's.

Never heard it among NPC organizations but many LGLOs and MGLOs use it.

Well, it is my understanding that a lot of fraternities are closer to frats than we think.

I think that when an organization is worthy to go from a frat to a fraternity, then it should be reflected in the name.

Here's my thing.
yes some people find it degrating, but it is is also 1 syllable compared to 4. it comes out easier. and while some get offend, many more use it themselves. it is kinda like the rush/plege/rushee thing with NPC. We know we aren't supposed to say it, but it is soooooo much easier than recruitment/new member/ PNM. it is a matter of symantics, i think the context should be more important than the word. Maybe instead of being offended, NIC needs to reclaim the word. Just like the gay community and 'queer' just a thought, it would be much easier.

The same reason that loyal students and alumni of the California Institute of Technology call it "CalTech," that student and alumni of the countless "___ State" colleges and universities will call those institutions simply "State," that some people will refer to the President of the United States (or the president of any other group) as "The Pres" (same goes for "The Gov"), or that we say "LA," "Vegas" or "Philly." Shortening names of things is a time-honored practice in the English language -- often it is considered to indicate affection or familiarity.

Yes, the word "frat" for many people carries an Animal House connotation -- some people use the word intending that connotation to be understood, while others use it quite innocently. I've rarely heard a member of fraternity use it, unless perhaps speaking only with his brothers. But I think it's silly to take offense at the word if no offense is intended.

And could we please stop trotting out the lame "you wouldn't call your country...." analagy? No, one wouldn't call one's country a ____, but the reason has nothing to do with the idea that it's disrespectful to one's country to shorten the word "country" and everything to do with the fact that the shortened-form of "country, unlike the shortened form of "fraternity," happens to be a particularly offensive obscenity.

Well put, MysticCat81. I agree.

level of sophistication, etc.
 

You can use "frat" and you can say "y'know" or "hear what I'm
sayin'" all you want.
Your usage of English reflects your attitude and level of speech.
"Frat" is neither cute nor a substitute for fraternity. If this is too
hard to grasp, why did you bother...coming to college?
Whether you will admit it or not, you joined a GLO to better yourself, or to become 'a cut above.' We are not, though, a rehabilitation society. Flush "frat" from your vocabulary.

Re: level of sophistication, etc.
 

People might listen to you if you weren't so condescending.

Who are you to tell someone else how they should feel about a word?

Time to refill the chill pills, Erik.

It urks you to hear someone say "frat." I can respect that that. Since it's not a word that I typically use, I guess I don't have to worry about offending you, at least not in this particular way.

But unless you are the one speaker of English in the States (excuse me, in the United States of America -- I should be more respectful and not shorten the name of my country) who does not use slang, colloquilisms, acronyms, or the like, then give the whole "why did you come to college?" rant and the suggestion that someone who uses the word "frat" is the educational equivalent of a meathead (oops, there's slang again) who punctuates every clause with "you know" a rest.

This is the time where someone says "there are so many more important things fraternities have to deal with than whether or not they are called 'frat'."

my. my
 

my. my. aren't we testy?
If you ever get out and get a job, or if you ever get out to make
a living...other than a short-sleeved bureaucrat working for the
government, perhaps it may dawn on you the importance of the
usage of good language.
About condesension...if you like long enough you, too, will become a judge.

Re: my. my
 

All this talk about proper English good sir, yet you speak like a loon on Greekchat.com.

-Rudey
--You're fired!

Just wanted to repeat this.

Here's one way I've seen the difference between frat and fraternity, and I've always liked it:



A fraternity man joins a fraternity for the rich friendships and growth it brings to his life.

A frat boy joins a fraternity and expects others to take care of him; he generally pays his dues late.


A fraternity man, if he drinks, realizes he must drink responsibly.

The frat boy drinks to get drunk and becomes disgusting.


A fraternity man understands others are watching and knows his actions impact his fraternity.

A frat boy has no idea how his actions impact others and he doesn't care.


A fraternity man does what's right, even when nobody's watching.

A frat boy puts on a show for the world, but when nobody's watching, is rude and vulgar.


A fraternity man is a campus leader, who takes part in activities offered on campus.

A frat boy does not become involved and steps away from positions of leadership.


A fraternity man focuses on his class work and uses his time wisely.

A frat boy may go to class, but usually misses one or two while recovering from the night before.


A fraternity man spends time with alumni and has respect for them, realizing that much can be learned from those who have come before him.

A frat boy is disrespectful towards his elders and the alumni, and eventually runs them off.

Well put LXAAlum.

http://dickson5.home.vol.com

Re: my. my
 

Are you Tom Earp? Because if you are, I won't tell.

Oy
 

Sheesh Erik, give it a rest already.

I'm really not testy at all -- just a bit bemused and weary of your pointless pontification.

Since it seems to matter to you, perhaps I should put your mind at ease and let you know that I "got out" quite a few years ago and have been making quite a good living that requires me to write on a daily basis. (And I never wear short sleeves.) I'm keenly aware of the importance of "usage of good language." I'm also keenly aware of the difference between those times when use of slang and colloquialisms may be appropriate and acceptable and those times when such usage is not. Any insistence that one's strict adherence to the rules of "correct" English should be the same on the basketball court as in a brief to the United States Supreme Court is, to paraphrase Churchill, something up with which we should not put.

By the way, I assume that in your last sentence you meant to say "condescension" instead of "condesension" and "live" instead of "like." And does that "it" in "perhaps it may dawn on you the importance of the usage of good language" have a clear antecedent? I think "perhaps the importance of the usage of good language may dawn on you" would be a little clearer and more correct. Don't you? Usage of good language, you know.

You make my point so much better than I ever could.

Re: Re: my. my
 

Ditto
I'm not usually a grammar whore...
BUT, if you're going to chastize someone about something in the English language that's so damn trivial (in the bigger picture of things), then you'd better have a perfect post. I hardly think a real world job would tolerate the ellipses, typos, random returns, lack of capitalization, fragments, etc. that your posts contain.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I remember it like this, "You don't call your mother a "moth," you don't call your country a "c***," and you don't call your fraternity a "frat!"

The point is that the term "frat" is now pejorative.

Re: Oy
 

golly, sing to us
 

we have our senior moments and our nervous keyboards. I do
realize I should have used my spell-check.
you are one of the last kids off the bus and have obviously not
had the FRATERNITY experience that some of us cherish.
but, there's room for all.
wipe your nose, find clean underwear....

I agree that the terms frat and frat boy have negative connotations. I eliminated them from my vocabulary when I was in high school visiting colleges. I asked a guy how long he had been in his frat. He said that he wasn't in a frat, he was in a fraternity. He said, "You wouldn't call your mother a c*nt so don't call my fraternity a frat." That was the last thing he ever said to me. I had never heard anyone use that word directed towards me so I walked away justifiably offended.

I've heard numerous fraternity guys use the term and to tell you the truth, I doubt that many people really care whether you abbreviate the word fraternity or not.

I think if you are offended by an abbreviated word, that you're probably a bit anal and need more things to fill out your day.

In the case of the word 'frat' representing negative stereotypes when used, as long as you know and believe something, who cares what other people say? Let their ignorance and your tolerance show.

-Matt