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shopgirl 07-10-2004 11:23 AM

The Break Up of America
 
I found this on my high school's alumni website.
It's an interesting read. I would like to get your
thoughts and/or opinions on what this man is
predicting for the future of our country.




**************************************************
From Washington Dispatch.com
Commentary
The Coming Break Up of America: Part I
Commentary by Frosty Wooldridge
July 7, 2004


Have you ever noticed that it's 'we' average citizens who know what's going on long before politicians in high places get wind of it? Have you noticed more and more people speaking different languages at the supermarket? Schools? Movies? At your local bank? Have you noticed radio stations and TV crackling with Spanish or other languages in our English speaking America? Have you seen more people disrespecting the singing of our
national anthem? Have you noticed our laws being broken such as red lights being run or people fleeing accident scenes where they were the cause? Have you noticed more trash in our state and national parks, especially in California, Texas and Georgia?

Have you noticed more flags being flown from other countries instead of Old Glory? Did you know that more Mexican flags fly from houses, cars and establishments in California more than the Stars and Stripes? Have you noticed what has happened to the Golden Bear State? Texas? Arizona? How about Georgia or Miami, Florida?

Have you ever been incredulous about hearing something that sounded so preposterous that it "couldn't be true?" Take a second look. You are watching the "Coming Breakup of America." That's right. Your country. It is moving methodically, perversely, steadily and provocatively across our land. Our Congress is aiding it at the highest levels. It is a nation-destroying experiment being forced on Americans that will prove more disastrous than 9/11.

Last week, I read a book, "Civil War Two: The Coming Breakup of America" by Thomas W. Chittum. This book paints a grim picture of what is happening to our country. At first, I was incredulous at his supposition. But half way through the book, his research was so profound and SO evident that it became a page-turner. It provided a sickening look into the methodology and process whereby my own country was being destroyed before my eyes.

"History is littered with wars which everybody knew would never happen," said Enoch Powell. Today, America fights a war 10,000 miles away while its own borders suffer an invasion so vast, so powerful, so insidiously destructive, yet so subtle--even our own citizens can't see it. Not yet, that is. Chittum writes, "America was born in blood." He should know because he is a decorated Viet Nam veteran.

He said, "Social, political and economic forces are pulling America apart and driving her toward a bloody conflict that may fracture the nation into several different countries," he said. "Riots, gangs, militias, exploding crime rates, massive immigration, rising unemployment, falling wages.these fuel the fires of war."

He talks about nations versus empires. "Empires consist of peoples of different religions, languages, cultures, races and nationalities," he said. "Nations are dominated by one group that makes up a majority of the population. Nations are inherently stable while empires are always unstable."

If you look around the United States, we were a stable nation before 1965 with a population mostly of European and African citizens and mostly one religion. Today, we've imported 60 million people from areas so incompatible with American culture that we recoil at the horrors of female genital mutilation from Middle Easterners, polygamy of Hmong immigrants, honor killings from Asia, forced 13 year old girls into marriages and 300
different languages. Los Angeles, Miami, San Francisco and other cities speak more foreign languages than English. "If you'll notice throughout history," he writes, "multiethnic empires break up in cataclysmic violence." The former Soviet Union and Yugoslavia are classic examples of multiethnic empires that shattered in tribal violence. Today, France is on the same track of self-destruction.

Chittum talks about an unstable, tiered society. Aristotle said, "The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law." As any average American citizen can see, we're developing a massive underclass of illegal, Third World, uneducated poor that have become our 'indentured
servants.' They won't remain down on the farm for long.

America's supports 13 million illegal aliens that have no allegiance to our country. A dozen cities feature more foreign-born immigrants than American citizens. Last year, 800,000 Californians fled their state. Over 200 Spanish-speaking radio stations own the airwaves in Los Angeles. Miami
features over 100 Cuban stations. None have any allegiance to America.

How will it get worse? Our politicians may grant amnesty to that 13 million which will encourage another 13 million. There are so many illegal aliens that they hide more illegal aliens via 'ethnic sympathy.' But what they bring us is as dangerous as any armed invasion.

As their numbers grow, they are aided by the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund. La Raza, another anti-American Mexican organization, works directly for the overthrow of America. LULAC is another group that supports he 'Reconquista of Aztlan,' or, the retaking of the American Southwest back into Mexico.

Notice that Mexican president Fox dictates to our leaders what they will do with his 13 million illegal immigrants in our country. Notice 46 Mexican consulates in our cities around America supporting his people in our country. Notice voter fraud by illegal aliens now able to throw our local and national elections.

After three chapters, Chittum's writing sobered me, but I still wasn't convinced until he offered concrete numbers. "In California in 1993, 665,229 firearms were sold. That's 1,873 per day. Enough firearms were sold to equip an infantry battalion." For the Californians remaining, there's a lot of frightened people readying themselves for conflict. "California is odds-on favorite to kick off Civil War II," Chittum said.

"The instinctive need to be a member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are," said Konrad Lorenz. Illegal Mexican border jumpers separate against being an American. The 20,000 member "18th Street Gang" in Los Angeles owns the streets. They coordinate all drug traffic, extortions of businesses, prostitutes and robberies. Their power, along with MS-13 gangs
in 28 American cities, grows by the day. Over 60 percent of the members are illegal aliens and the other 40 percent are legal immigrants. Since they possess no working skills in our First World society, they find crime as an easier vocation. It's termed 'Third World Momentum.' Its corruption is so deep, so wide and so embedded that it's as intrinsic as the sewer systems in those cities.

How many and how much? Los Angeles sheriff files register 100,000 gang members. San Antonio features 5,000 gang members. Chicago estimates 50,000 members. Former Attorney Janet Reno estimated over 500,000 gang members have imported themselves into the USA. They commit an average of 580,000 crimes annually in our country.

So why do our politicians sit and twiddle their thumbs? Why do they aid and abet by doing nothing? Can't they see what's happening to California? Texas? Arizona? The answer in a nutshell: No!

Why? Because Americans, like the proverbial frog being thrown into the pot of water and the stove being turned up to high, will keep adapting until we boil to death. The same thing happened to the Romans, French, Spanish and every other great nation that tumbled into the dustbin of history. Spain backed into submission by the Madrid train bombing. France stands on the
doorstep of a crisis it won't be able to contain.

I never thought I would have to fight for my own country inside my own country. But the time is fast approaching. Chittum adds that if immigration continues at 2.3 million per year, we won't have enough Americans to stand up for America.

Part II: Urban Street Gangs, Growing Militias, Ethnic Enclaves, Bloody Lessons of Tribal Europe, Solutions to this crisis.

Frosty Wooldridge is a teacher, author and has bicycled 100,000 miles around
the globe to see overpopulation up close and ugly. Book due in late July:
'IMMIGRATION'S UNARMED INVASION: DEADLY CONSEQUENCES.'

RACooper 07-10-2004 03:58 PM

I don't know from what I've read this guy strikes me as a bit of a crackpot and a closet racist.... his views are overly simplistic and more than a little off - case in point credits fall and break-up of USSR to rising ethinic divisions and not the economic pressure. His background is also somewhat questionable as well - while he was a Vietnam vet (65-67), I don't know about the mercenary work in Rhodesia or Croatia... In my experience the most rabid of the racists were the mercenaries in Croatia...

Read this work with a more than a little bit of caution and a critical eye.

Tom Earp 07-10-2004 04:25 PM

Interesting read!:(

There once was a man who had a plan.:D :cool:

Beleive He was from Cinncinati! A professor of reknown.:)

His idea, well, it was to realine The USA! Because of the Costs of Local Govts. that it was a good idea to realign States so the local Govts could and would be congruent.

Say Kansas, Minnesota, Ohio, Neb., Kt.

Basically, In a Metro Area, there is no need to have Multi Cities, or Even School Boards. Why, because they cost us money as Tax Payers.

Actually with NAFTA, in North America and The European Union, when, do we become a world Society??!;)

Well Coop, what think you!?

cash78mere 07-10-2004 04:43 PM

for the most part, i agree with this guy.

i think america is going downhill fast. my friends and i speak of this often. people now seem to care only for themselves. there is no we, just I. we live in a different america than our grandparents, and it's not for the better.

and no, you can't call a guy a racist simply for stating his personal beliefs. he's not calling to kick people out of the country, only stating what he believes. i can't stand when people cry racism with no solid proof. i guess that would make me racist by agreeing with him, which i clearly am not if people know me.

Munchkin03 07-10-2004 04:58 PM

I wonder what sort of credibility that the Washington Dispatch has.

Phasad1913 07-10-2004 09:10 PM

This sounds like the "warnings" that the skinheads and the like have been issuing in Russia recently accompanying the increase in xenophobia and murders of innocent people "not of Russian descent". It will be this fear that will cause the violence and destruction, not the increase in cultures and ethnicities.

www.abcnews.go.com/sections/World/Travel/russian_skinheads_040629-1.html

Kevin 07-10-2004 11:01 PM

The same crap has been said about every ethnic group that immigrates to the US. Yes, the US may change with the influx of folks from the south. We changed with the immigration of Germans and Irish. In fact, both groups were even more objected to by certain conservative elements of society.

I think we turned out okay.

RACooper 07-11-2004 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phasad1913
This sounds like the "warnings" that the skinheads and the like have been issuing in Russia recently accompanying the increase in xenophobia and murders of innocent people "not of Russian descent". It will be this fear that will cause the violence and destruction, not the increase in cultures and ethnicities.

www.abcnews.go.com/sections/World/Travel/russian_skinheads_040629-1.html

Yeah it kinda smacks of the "Turner Diaries" that Mcvay was a fan of... and as ktsnake stated this is the same bunk that was said about every ethinc group that has come to the Americas...

But I would really worry about it... Rome railed against the incursions of "non-Romans" before the Empire... but it wasn't the divergant ethnic communities that brought about Rome's fall... but political curroption and rampant inflation.

Kevin 07-11-2004 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RACooper
But I would really worry about it... Rome railed against the incursions of "non-Romans" before the Empire... but it wasn't the divergant ethnic communities that brought about Rome's fall... but political curroption and rampant inflation.
Political corruption is a big problem. Guys like Orrin Hatch can be bought and sold right now. There's a gentlemen (who happens to be a SN running for US Senate here in my state. He has been known to say that the best investment in the state is a victorious political campaign.

And that seems about right.

It's a tough balance to take care of the needs of both corporations and people. Political corruption really upsets the balance. Comparing the US to Rome in that respect is a little off though. Our society is FAR more complex than Roman society was from an economic and technological standpoint.

RACooper 07-13-2004 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
Political corruption really upsets the balance. Comparing the US to Rome in that respect is a little off though. Our society is FAR more complex than Roman society was from an economic and technological standpoint.
My point was that even prior to Augustus there were Roman writers that consitantly wrote about moral and social decay brought on by the divergent ethinc groups within the Roman state... and this train of criticism continued right up until the end, a full 400+ years later... but ultimately it wasn't the different ethinc groups within Roman society that caused the "fall" of Rome...

Just as there has been people who have written in the past (US & Canada) that the differing ethnic groups are weakening the respective countries... they have blamed differing groups over the years as well, but the prevailing thought is always "they" are not "us", and yet "they" become "us" as new groups arrive or emerge... will these many ethnic groups casue the break-up or collapse of the state? I don't think so...

_Opi_ 07-13-2004 12:11 PM

God save us all!


But on the real, I wave two different flags, and none which are American....because guess what -- I'm not American! Sorry that this fella feels that people like us who speak a different language at the supermarket will be the downfall of this society :)

Cash78Mere,

How were the times of your grandparent's better than now? If they were better, then why were there so many movements and riots about freedom and rights taking place?

Rudey 07-13-2004 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by _Opi_
God save us all!


But on the real, I wave two different flags, and none which are American....because guess what -- I'm not American! Sorry that this fella feels that people like us who speak a different language at the supermarket will be the downfall of this society :)

Cash78Mere,

How were the times of your grandparent's better than now? If they were better, then why were there so many movements and riots about freedom and rights taking place?

Do you always feel the need to tell Americans how they should feel about internal matters such as their new populations when you aren't American and don't have the experience or knowledge?

-Rudey

_Opi_ 07-13-2004 12:27 PM

1. I am on my way to becoming an american ;), hence why I said I am not an American
2. I know your history
3. I didn't anyone how they should feel about "internal matters"
4. Yes, I have experience :cool:


Rudey, do that breathing exercise I told you to do.....it might clear your head a bit!

Munchkin03 07-13-2004 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cash78mere
we live in a different america than our grandparents, and it's not for the better.
Um, maybe YOUR grandparents would say that their America is worse today than it was when they were younger, but I doubt MY grandparents would. But then again, they grew up in the Jim Crow South, and were able to take advantage of a lot of the positive things that came out of the second half of the twentieth century.

So, let's not generalize.

Kevin 07-13-2004 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RACooper
My point was that even prior to Augustus there were Roman writers that consitantly wrote about moral and social decay brought on by the divergent ethinc groups within the Roman state... and this train of criticism continued right up until the end, a full 400+ years later... but ultimately it wasn't the different ethinc groups within Roman society that caused the "fall" of Rome...

Just as there has been people who have written in the past (US & Canada) that the differing ethnic groups are weakening the respective countries... they have blamed differing groups over the years as well, but the prevailing thought is always "they" are not "us", and yet "they" become "us" as new groups arrive or emerge... will these many ethnic groups casue the break-up or collapse of the state? I don't think so...

So all you're saying is that xenophobia is not a new thing? Right?

Okay, I agree :D

kappaloo 07-14-2004 12:05 AM

I find North Americans who are against immigration for the most part highly hypocritical (unless you're Native American I guess). Chances are, if you look far enough back... you'll find immigrants in your heritage.

Many came to N.American without papers. Many took crop jobs or servant jobs to "pay their dues" and through the generations moved up into higher levels of society. Many keep their ethnic pride to this day. Heritage musuems are rampant - why is this writer not worried about the Czechs in Iowa? The Germans in Pennsylvania?

Munchkin03 07-14-2004 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kappaloo
I find North Americans who are against immigration for the most part highly hypocritical (unless you're Native American I guess). Chances are, if you look far enough back... you'll find immigrants in your heritage.

Many came to N.American without papers. Many took crop jobs or servant jobs to "pay their dues" and through the generations moved up into higher levels of society. Many keep their ethnic pride to this day. Heritage musuems are rampant - why is this writer not worried about the Czechs in Iowa? The Germans in Pennsylvania?

After a few generations, people tend to forget that they were immigrants too. It's this hypocrisy that makes me look sideways at "articles" like this.

Rudey 07-14-2004 12:22 AM

Hypocrisy?

People do things for their self-interest.

People's self-interest changes at different times.

They don't support it, fine. They are more than entitled to their opinion.

-Rudey

swissmiss04 07-14-2004 08:41 AM

Immigrants that came here in the mid 1800s-early 1900s were just as "unwelcomed" as they are now. Maybe more so, in some places. Sometimes other immigrants can be downright terrible to other immigrants, especially if they are wealthy. I read an article about South Asian business owners exploiting other South Asians to work as domestic servants, restaurant workers, and other low paying jobs. Many people forget who they are (or who they once were) when they come here.

Kevin 07-14-2004 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by swissmiss04
Immigrants that came here in the mid 1800s-early 1900s were just as "unwelcomed" as they are now. Maybe more so, in some places. Sometimes other immigrants can be downright terrible to other immigrants, especially if they are wealthy. I read an article about South Asian business owners exploiting other South Asians to work as domestic servants, restaurant workers, and other low paying jobs. Many people forget who they are (or who they once were) when they come here.
No, if they're a successful business owner, chances are that they didn't come to the US seeking a low paying service job. In America, you're only as exploited as you want to be. These folks are the proof.

_Opi_ 07-14-2004 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
In America, you're only as exploited as you want to be. These folks are the proof.
I know alot of immigrant families who have received their master's/phds abroad but when they come to N. America, its invalid. Both my parent's had their master's, and when they got here they went right back to school. Yes immigrants are exploited -- but only because they have to make a living in the meantime and support their families.

Rudey 07-14-2004 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by _Opi_
I know alot of immigrant families who have received their master's/phds abroad but when they come to N. America, its invalid. Both my parent's had their master's, and when they got here they went right back to school. Yes immigrants are exploited -- but only because they have to make a living in the meantime and support their families.
Your parents should have gotten better educations.

-Rudey

_Opi_ 07-14-2004 09:58 AM

Rudey,

They did.


BTW, aren't you an immigrant yourself?

Kevin 07-14-2004 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by _Opi_
I know alot of immigrant families who have received their master's/phds abroad but when they come to N. America, its invalid. Both my parent's had their master's, and when they got here they went right back to school. Yes immigrants are exploited -- but only because they have to make a living in the meantime and support their families.
You don't need a valid master's degree to open up a restaurant, start a business, etc. You don't even need real skills. Sure, if someone studied medicine in Aruba, I'd kind of prefer they at least be able to pass the USMLE or study med school in the US before practicing medicine on me. American degrees are some of the most highly valued degrees in the world for a good reason.

_Opi_ 07-14-2004 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
You don't need a valid master's degree to open up a restaurant, start a business, etc. You don't even need real skills.
Sure you don't need a master's degree but you sure need a good credit and money to open up businesses. Besides, alot of Asian families do open up restraunts and businesses as soon as they are established.

Kevin 07-14-2004 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by _Opi_
Sure you don't need a master's degree but you sure need a good credit and money to open up businesses. Besides, alot of Asian families do open up restraunts and businesses as soon as they are established.
You don't need much to open up a cleaning service, lawn service, etc. Those don't really require any kind of skills either.

The fact is, that there are plenty of options for smart people to make money in the US. If they want to work for minimum wage (or less), that's up to them. If they work for minimum wage or less and have a master's degree, I guess that shows you that even educated people can do some dumb things.

Rudey 07-14-2004 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by _Opi_
Rudey,

They did.


BTW, aren't you an immigrant yourself?

Yes I am.

-Rudey
--And what?

_Opi_ 07-14-2004 10:52 AM

KTsnake,

there are regular Americans who are too overqualified for their work as well. No doubt, if you've been in the country more than 10 years and you are still washing dishes, there is a problem. Most people who were educated abroad typically pickup a different degree here or open some type of a business eventually. So they don't usually end up long in min. wage jobs. And I'm just speaking on immigrants that I've come into contact with over the years.


Rudey,

Just wondering, is all.

adduncan 07-14-2004 11:05 AM

There's a bit of difference between the immigrants from points south today and the German/Czec/Polish/Irish/insert group here of yesteryear.

Today, certain activists are calling for illegal immigrants to have the right to vote, hold drivers licenses, avoid learning English, the predominant language of the USA required for any successful venture, and basically be excused from obeying the law (when it comes to legal immigrant status).

This didn't happen 100 years ago.

When you have the above being advocated, the immigrant group in question is going to take some heat.

--add

Kevin 07-14-2004 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by _Opi_
KTsnake,

there are regular Americans who are too overqualified for their work as well. No doubt, if you've been in the country more than 10 years and you are still washing dishes, there is a problem. Most people who were educated abroad typically pickup a different degree here or open sometime of a business eventually. So they don't usually end up long in min. wage jobs. And I'm just speaking on immigrants that I've come into contact with over the years.


Rudey,

Just wondering, is all.

So what is your point then? You're agreeing with Swissmiss' article that says:
Quote:

I read an article about South Asian business owners exploiting other South Asians to work as domestic servants, restaurant workers, and other low paying jobs
Or are you agreeing with me that people are only as exploited as they want to be? And my statement there takes into account immigrants that are just trying to get their feet off the ground and *choose* to work a few low paying jobs to do so.

In the US, I have no sympathy for smart folks that take crappy jobs. With all that you can do to get yourself out of a situation like that, there just is no excuse. It's a good thing there are folks out there like that though. We'll always need fry cooks and gardeners.

33girl 07-14-2004 11:20 AM

OK, maybe I missed it, but what does this guy think is going to happen? A race war? Why would illegal immigrants "break up" America in that way, considering if you secede and declare yourself the country of ABCDEFG, you won't GET any of the benefits America has?

And if the areas he's talking about have declined so much, wouldn't their defecting back to Mexico actually HELP the USA? I mean, we've been threatening to annex Philly back onto NJ for years. ;)

Kevin 07-14-2004 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
There's a bit of difference between the immigrants from points south today and the German/Czec/Polish/Irish/insert group here of yesteryear.

Today, certain activists are calling for illegal immigrants to have the right to vote, hold drivers licenses, avoid learning English, the predominant language of the USA required for any successful venture, and basically be excused from obeying the law (when it comes to legal immigrant status).

This didn't happen 100 years ago.

When you have the above being advocated, the immigrant group in question is going to take some heat.

--add

All the US would really have to do to fix this would be 2 things:

#1: Enforce current immigration laws.

#2: Make it easier to become a legal immigrant. If someone who only wants a better opportunity in life wants to come the US, good for them. Require them to keep visas current and to pay taxes. If you're not paying taxes, and do not have a current visa, SORRY, no government services for you.

Kevin 07-14-2004 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 33girl
OK, maybe I missed it, but what does this guy think is going to happen? A race war? Why would illegal immigrants "break up" America in that way, considering if you secede and declare yourself the country of ABCDEFG, you won't GET any of the benefits America has?
The article is pretty off base. Some of the subjects in it are worthy of description. It seems almost like it was taken out of some White Power publication.

adduncan 07-14-2004 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
All the US would really have to do to fix this would be 2 things:

#1: Enforce current immigration laws.

#2: Make it easier to become a legal immigrant. If someone who only wants a better opportunity in life wants to come the US, good for them. Require them to keep visas current and to pay taxes. If you're not paying taxes, and do not have a current visa, SORRY, no government services for you.

Agreed.

Now tell it to the activist lawyers. ;)

--add

_Opi_ 07-14-2004 11:22 AM

My point is no one wants to be exploited. its not a want...its a need. A temporary one, for those with higher degrees.

RACooper 07-14-2004 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
There's a bit of difference between the immigrants from points south today and the German/Czec/Polish/Irish/insert group here of yesteryear.

Today, certain activists are calling for illegal immigrants to have the right to vote, hold drivers licenses, avoid learning English, the predominant language of the USA required for any successful venture, and basically be excused from obeying the law (when it comes to legal immigrant status).

This didn't happen 100 years ago.

When you have the above being advocated, the immigrant group in question is going to take some heat.

--add

Really? Each of the groups you cited were at one time "illegal" in that they weren't entitled to vote, but once there was enough of a political/economic force behind their cultural groups they were included into the political system.. after-all if you are the politican or party that reaches out and helps a group become "legal" citizens they tend to show a little loyalty....

adduncan 07-14-2004 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RACooper
Really? Each of the groups you cited were at one time "illegal" in that they weren't entitled to vote, but once there was enough of a political/economic force behind their cultural groups they were included into the political system.. after-all if you are the politican or party that reaches out and helps a group become "legal" citizens they tend to show a little loyalty....
Cooper, those earlier immigrants became entitled to vote when they became LEGAL CITIZENS. I'm talking about activists who want rights WITHOUT that little step. No one (read: me) is against LEGAL immigration. What I am against is people sneaking over borders with the intent of stealing services and rights without even bothering to think about obtaining legal status. You know these are two different things.

This is what causes the anti-immigrant backlash: when arguments are made that try to merge the plight of legal immigrants with illegal. It hurts the legal immigrant's cause.

--add

Kevin 07-14-2004 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
Cooper, those earlier immigrants became entitled to vote when they became LEGAL CITIZENS. I'm talking about activists who want rights WITHOUT that little step. No one (read: me) is against LEGAL immigration. What I am against is people sneaking over borders with the intent of stealing services and rights without even bothering to think about obtaining legal status. You know these are two different things.

This is what causes the anti-immigrant backlash: when arguments are made that try to merge the plight of legal immigrants with illegal. It hurts the legal immigrant's cause.

--add

For me, it's mainly about paying taxes so someone that doesn't pay taxes can enjoy governmental benefits in the US.

Or having to pay high insurance costs because illegal immigrants like to shoot eachother and use our hospitals for free.

Or having to read about our state prisons being filled up with people who never paid taxes in their lives.

If someone wants to come here, work their ass off and make a better life, I don't think anyone has a problem with that. Just so long as they do their fair share.

Rudey 07-14-2004 11:45 AM

Most immigrants who can come do so at the luxury of those that can't come. When they arrive, many have resources available to them in terms of family and community.

And when they go into the businesses they go to, they don't go into them with shame. Many immigrant businesses are cash business - more lucrative versions of what they had back home.

You have all these ignorant people arguing over they should get better jobs and how they're so poor and yada yada yada when much of the wealth of foreigners is simply economically immeasurable.

http://www.cato.org/special/friedman/desoto/bio.html

-Rudey

RACooper 07-15-2004 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by adduncan
Cooper, those earlier immigrants became entitled to vote when they became LEGAL CITIZENS. I'm talking about activists who want rights WITHOUT that little step. No one (read: me) is against LEGAL immigration. What I am against is people sneaking over borders with the intent of stealing services and rights without even bothering to think about obtaining legal status. You know these are two different things.

This is what causes the anti-immigrant backlash: when arguments are made that try to merge the plight of legal immigrants with illegal. It hurts the legal immigrant's cause.

--add

Yes but how do the current "illegals" become legal citizens? What happens if a currently illegal immigrant "reports in" and wants to begin the process of obtaining legal citizenship? Are they summarily arrested, deported, or given a chance to become a legal citizen? See I thought that the "activists" were for the most part advocating a position in favour of granting rights to current illegal immigrants that already reside in the US.


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