accepting others???!
 

I'm not a big fan of the greek organization, and the instances of prejudice and bigotry are some of my biggest reasons for my point of view. I'm sending this in regards to the other threads and posts on here in which people were discussing the morality of ostracizing individuals because of sexual preference. It's really sad that sororities/fraternities add people to its list of who is good enough to be a part of the social group through judging others(prove me wrong if you can on this) on superficial, vain criteria, and then these are the same organizations imbedded with people who will shun other human beings based on asinine, superficial reasons such as radical/intellectual ideas, political agenda, sexual orientation, or whatever. the Greeks are well-known for their philanthropy, and they should be applauded for the effort to make this a better world to live in...but why is it so difficult to accept someone you call a Brother/Sister and to love each other unconditionally? Please, somebody enlighten me. I don't want to be disdainful in this world of ignorance, nor do I want to be ignorant in this world of disdain.

Lia

it's too early in the morning to tackle this post... BUT

aren't you doing the exact same thing in judging us all as greeks?

I second that observation Danielle. It is way too early for this.

Lia, I'll ignore the hypocrisy in your post for my reply. You came here wanting an answer and I'll give you mine. Of course, this is how I feel, and it in no way reflects on anyone from any other Greek organization, including my own.

Yes, some of our chapters choose to excercise certain criteria for membership. There are certain clauses and rules within each organization that are setup to keep this sort of thing from happening. For example, I think basically all of us now have clauses in our governing documents that forbid racial discrimination (as opposed to the ones we had before the late 60's which required racial discrimination). I will admit, however, that many of these types of steps are more symbollic than anything else. And yes, there is some discrimination that does occur.

Most of our organizations require a vote by existing members for anyone to be voted in as a new member. My organization, for example, requires a unanimous vote for each new member twice. Why do people fail in these votes? All sorts of reasons. We have brothers of other races, we have brothers of all sorts of political backgrounds, basicallly all the stuff you mentioned. Why do we not vote someone in? For a variety of reasons. Could your listed reasons be something contributing? Maybe, we'll never know. A unanimous vote can be a tricky thing to pass -- although most do.

I'd say the most common reasons someone wouldn't make it in my chapter would include things like: Not a team player, got into a fight with an initiate, didn't show up for new member functions, lack of respect for alums, someone doesn't like the cut of their jib (Simpsons reference), etc.

Do some chapters do exactly what you suspect them of? No doubt! Does that mean you get to judge us all as being KKK youth groups? I don't think that's fair. I think you come off as a fairly intelligent individual, can you tell me what made you decide that about our organizations?

Just like any other organizations in any other parts of the world, you could easily judge the whole body on a few bad apples. However you'd be missing out on a lot.

For these few bad apples, there are literally thousands of Greeks who do accept their brothers and sisters, no matter what their backgrounds may be. To think that all of us are built to discriminate against others is to miss the point.

As others have said, it's too early for me to elaborate further, but please don't hesitate to PM me and I may be able to answer any specific questions you have on Greek Life. Maybe a little education on the subject would help.

On our campus, we look for diversity. We recruited one girl extra hard who was another race because we felt that she was a really well-rounded person. We also turned another girl away who was of a different race, but that had ABSOLUTLY nothing to do with why we didn't bid her.

I will admit that Recruitment can be superfical, but that's mainly because you have 3 minutes with each girl to decide if you want them as part of your life-long sisterhood. I'm sure you have a few girls you know that you would love to be in a life-long bond with and others that you'd rather chew your own arm off then have anything more to do with them then absolutly mandatory. Does this have anything to do with race, political views or any of the other characteristics you mentioned above? Think about that.

And as for sexual orientation...it's the Potential New Member's choice if they want to reveal this info, knowing that whether they're rushing a GLO, getting a job, running for office, etc...there WILL be people who will judge them for it. Is it right? No. Does it happen everywhere, including, but not limited to GLO's? Yes. We had a sister who was a lesbian, and in the end she ended up quitting, because it was a rather uncomfotable situation. (It's like putting a straight guy in an orginzation with nothing but pretty lesbians, he's going to feel at least a slight bit uncomfortable).

I hope you have an open enough mind to at least check out Greek Life at your school. If it's exactly what you expected, and not for you, you haven't lost anything. But if you are suprised to find something that you might want to be a part of, you've found a life-long bond. But if you choose to ignore it compleatly, you miss the oppertunity to be part of something potentially life-changing and great.

discrimination?
 

Previous posters in this thread have said it adequately. I don't think you really want to be convinced of anything. Greek Letter Organization members are human, and prejudice (of all kinds) happens in our organizations despite efforts to stop it. We are private organizations, however, with the right to chose our members however we wish, using whatever criteria we wish. Because of that, you can never point to a particular potential member and say he/she was not bid because they are green, yellow, like dogs, drive a Ford, or whatever you think the reason is. You will never know, and speculation about it is equally unfair.

Lia, I think we're all looking forward to hearing from you regardin why you think this way. Please let us know.

Maybe it's just me... but aren't most of those facts (the judgement, being superficial and other asinine resons/triats) part of the human race in general? I've met plenty of people of all ages, all varieties, all personalities and all group affilations who possess some of these characteristics. Butget this, we're human and therefore (Big presentation music please) We Are All DIFFERENT. we just have to remember that not all of us possess all of the traits in the same degree. I'll bet if you picked a certin age range, lets for instance say college girls, you would find that all this crud isn't just confined to GLO's.

And yes i would like to hear you're point of view as well, considering you don't really seem to have an open opinion.

Back to being a reader now ... :)

The previous posters have done a much more eloquent job than I can so I'll just add a few comments. I agree with Dani, you are doing the exact same thing you say we do which really makes you no better.

It's interesting that you say you aren't a big fan yet you have obviously spent a lot of time studying us for some reason.

And unless you've been a member how can you know what criteria we use for membership? Membership in any org is a two way decision by the group and the individual. The individual could be just as superficial (and a lot are) in choosing what group he/she wants to be part of.

And most private organizations have some type of requirements for joining.

I just love how how everyone jumps on this, and this individual has not written back!

Just one post only! ???

Yes, I know, she has to see what is posted.

There are many posts to the positive of Greeks.

1. "I will admit that Recruitment can be superfical, but that's mainly because you have 3 minutes with each girl to decide if you want them as part of your life-long sisterhood"--AlphaFrog
...It probably took me around 3 minutes or so to type the first message, and a few extra minutes for this one. What do you know about me based on what it is you can "see/imply" about me and what I have told you so far? (Note: this is not a personal attack on AlphaFrog's comments; I just want to know what everyone thinks about this.)

2."...you don't really seem to have an open opinion"--ZHLyreGirl
...My intentions here are not so focused on having a closed-mind. Obviously I would go to some anti-greek chat forum if I wanted that instead of come here where most are supportive of/in the sororities/fraternities. I just want an open understanding of it all, and what better way to try to get that than to ask people who will have different perspectives.

3. "wow, 4a.m....somebody's pressed."--JocelynC
...I really do appreciate all of the insightful comments everybody sent to me. And this one. I'm so glad you have such a busy life and could still offer those generous words of wisdom.

4. "you have obviously spent a lot of time studying us for some reason."--SmartBlondeGPhB
...I just want to know where other people are coming from. Still, I'd hardly call this extensive research on the subject--starting a thread, talking to friends (including members and non-members), and observing what goes on at least on my own college campus. I'm not here to prove anyone wrong. I'm just curious, and so I ask.

5. "For these few bad apples, there are literally thousands of Greeks who do accept their brothers and sisters, no matter what their backgrounds may be. To think that all of us are built to discriminate against others is to miss the point."--KSigkid

This is something I will wholeheartedly agree with. Believe me, I
never missed this point.

6. "We had a sister who was a lesbian, and in the end she ended up quitting, because it was a rather uncomfotable situation. (It's like putting a straight guy in an orginzation with nothing but pretty lesbians, he's going to feel at least a slight bit uncomfortable)."--AlphaFrog

One more question to ponder: Who is uncomfortable, the straight guy or the lesbians? Perhaps both??

7. "can you tell me what made you decide that about our organizations?"--ktsnake
Because believe it or not, I live in the real world. Before I started college, I was so excited about leaving home, starting a new chapter in my life, and gaining a better perspective on the world. College was my best opportunity for that, I thought. Then I got there and made my attempt at what I had come to do. Through all of this hectic but amazing experience, I've made many friends who I will probably remain friends with throughout my lifetime, but I didn't need an organization to do that for me. I didn't need a rule book or government documentation to tell me who I should or should not accept. I never based any of these friendships on "knowing" somebody for 3 minutes and then having a vote with the rest of the crowd about whether my beliefs that this was a worthwhile individual was correct. So to answer your question as best as I can, it may not be the actual organizations that I am against but the conformity and importance of popularity on it all.
---

Lia

How nice for you.

Interesting, I would never have considered myself "popular" when I joined......

Frankly your opinion doesn't sound much different from other anti-greeks that come on here and claim to want to understand.

And whether you meant it to or not, it sounds a bit bitter too.

Lia, I'm glad that you have had an excellent time in college. I can only speak for myself, (and my experience and the way I joined are very atypical) but I never planned to join such an organization either. I had a full social schedule at the time. I had a full time job and played at bars 2 nights a week and practiced another two nights. The other 3 were split between hanging out and studying. I had a full social calendar, etc. etc. etc. Point being, I had accomplished all of the great things that many people accomplish in college as far as forming relationships and discovering who I was.

I didn't know it at the time, but I wanted something more. I had a coworker that was about to join the precursor group to our colony (which later became the chapter that I'm an alum of today) who convinced me I should join. At the time, I was more interested in joining because of the extensive alumni base and the better job prospects for GLO members out of college. In other words, I wanted to do the bare minimum as a member because I felt my social/academic calendar were full.

I was wrong of course. After a semester into joining, my band broke up. I had more time on my hands. I was sitting in one of our meetings (elections) and no one ran for Marshal (the new member educator), so I decided to throw my hat in. I won it unopposed. From that point on, it kind of snowballed. I became more and more involved to the point that since that time, I was only not in an executive office for 1 semester. I held 3 executive offices total. 2 in the Colony (I was 2nd in charge when our organization was approved for its charter which is like a license to exist) and 1 in the Chapter (I was the first chapter treasurer). Since then, my work as an alum has been pretty tireless.

Anyhow, on the social side of things, I have great relationships with all of my pre-fraternity friends. Didn't dump anyone at all (although some friends I grew out of). I've met a lot more friends, and now share something with a group of people that I never otherwise would have met: A bond of brotherhood. It's something very difficult for a non-GLO member to comprehend. I'm not talking down to you, that's just evident to me from reading what you've written thus far. We share a ritual that embodies virtues that we all value, and we all try to live out those values. Not just the 50+ that have been initiated into my chapter thus far, but over 200,000 initiates. It's being a part of something huge.

Our rush process is a little different than sororities. It's quite a bit more involved with the individual and recruitment is a longer process focused more on individuals. We pick up most guys over the summer after talking to them, hanging out with them, and even sometimes talking to their parents. Some sororities are like that as well.

I can't say a whole lot for NPC's, but I couldn't think of a much better way to fill 20-person new member classes without having the opportunity to really get to know them going into the process and then try and do that when you are talking to 200+ girls. Yeah, the process will probably be a little superficial.

The intake process is not. New member classes are picked over, some are let go and some choose to leave. What you are left with (depending on your gender/organization) are brothers or sisters.

Like I said, it's difficult to explain, but now I've given it my best shot.

Lia05, I'm not really sure what you are looking for, but i will give it a try. When I was in college, I had sisters who came from different backgrounds with different faiths, heritages, and ideas. We were brought together by a common bond of sisterhood. Our diversity was a reflection of the diversity of our state and was an asset. I'm not going to say we agreed with each other all of the time, but we accepted our differences and were able to build a strong and close sisterhood. I remember that the sisters liked each other, accepted each other, had fun together, and were friends. I hope when people reflect upon their greek life experiences that their memories are as warm and positive as mine. :)

Thank you Noreen. My POSITIVE Greek experiences continue to grow everyday, even as an alumna. Our alumnae association recently chartered and I am very proud (you can see the pics in our thread under Delta Phi Epsilon). I see at least one Deepher alum every week, whether it be someone from my actual chapter or from the alumnae group. I also especially enjoy the positive interaction that takes place throughout the Greek community overall on this site. I don't regret ever joining a GLO and it continues to enhance my life experience every day. I even met my new boyfriend through a sister. It's still so new but if things worked out I'd owe it all to D*Phi*E LOL:D I am also in my late 20's and don't foresee my active participation with my GLO changing anytime soon.

Re: accepting others???!
 

This is the criteria that my colony of the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity uses to decide (judge is a harsh word) if a man would be a good member or not:

Human error?

This subject has been covered MANY times. Closing thread.

For Lia05
 

Ok, the thread must have been closed while I was typing this, which took me about a half hour, so I want to say it, dammit! (And yes, this has been covered before but Lia05 is new and may not know exactly what to search for, plus I have answers to spesific questions she asked!)



Everyone else can answer your question in regards to their post, but I'm going to answer your question in regards to my post.

Yes, we only have 3 minutes with each girl, but she also has 3 minutes with probably 10 other sisters. We don't make our decsion based on one person's three min. with a rushee*. Also, if you look further into the recruitment process (which I hope you do!) you'll find that the first 3 min. are just step one. If the soroity AND Potential New Memeber (PNM) both decide that this inital first impression was favorable, they indicate that they'd like to go back and see them again. (Which is where the second round of Rush* comes in).

The soroities invite girls back and they decide which houses they want to go back to. This leads to a bit longer chance to meet girls in the soroity and have say...7 minute conversations this time, plus usually some activity to help you get to know more about the soroity. Now you've had 10 minutes of conversation with maybe the same, maybe different girls (and trust me, those 10 min can say alot....when I went through, there were two soroities I could have talked forever with and the rest after a few minutes and uncomfortable silence).

Again the PNM's and soroities narrow down their choices and maybe there are one or two more rounds...every round with less girls and more time which equals more indivual time with each girl.

So while the first round of rush is what really can be superfical, the whole rush process give adaquate time for both the sisters and the PNM's to figure out where they really belong (be that in a soroity, or maybe the PNM decides on a non-greek org.). Also, unless there are locals on your campus, there are other ways of getting to know a soroity: websites, pamphlets, etc... And while all chapters of an org. are different, they all share a common bond for a reason.

Plus, you know everywhere you go, be it class, an interview, or rush, first impressions say alot! Think of soroity rush almost like a job interview (only more fun!). Job interviews can be superficial, because again, they only have a short time to get to know you and see if you're right for their company. Interviewers can be discriminatory...it's illegal, but they're human....and if you don't like job interviews, it's not something you potentially could avoid, like rush, so why not? It's definatly good pratice for that!

Disclaimer for our PC GCer's:
*Rush and rushee used because they are more familair terms to non-greeks then recruitment and Potential New Member (and shorter to type) I realize it's "Recruitment" and PNM
____________________________________________

As for the lesbian/straight guy example:

Maybe ALL the lesbians are uncomfortable, maybe the guy is uncomfortable, maybe only one or two lesbians are uncomfotable and the guy is perfectly fine...point is, people are all different. If a gey person feels comfortable in a chapter, and everyone is fine with it, then great for them! If the gay person is uncomfortable, there's no reason they have to stay. If the chapter (as a whole) doesn't feel comfortable with having a gay person, then why would the gay person want to be a part of it? And if it's just a few members that have a problem, then the gay person can weigh whether they're ok with a few members not being ok with them vs. benefits of staying in the org. Being gay is a very personal thing. I personally don't have a problem with it, but I don't judge people that do have a problem with it because A)you'll probably never change their mind B)it is something that people veiw as "unnatural" and against many religions. I do have a problem with people who act out against it (beat gay people, use demeaing terms), but just because someone is uncomfortable with it, doesn't make them a bad person, it's the actions that CAN make them a bad person. Basically, the gay person can't help being gay and the straight person who is uncomfotable with it can't help that either.


Ok...now that I've written you a novel covering everything from the Recruitment process to a sensitivty lesson on gay people, I will shut up now. If you have any further questions, please driect them at me! Have a great day!:) :)