"real" fraternities
 

sure are a lot of outfits I never heard of these days.
Many, I gather, have no houses, and are little more than
a club or gang, do little for the community, have little to offer
their members, experience-wise--but still use greek letters...
Now I know some folks will get all bent out of shape and say
they have a wonderful organization...
times change; but is hard for me to feel that the traditional
fraternity is comparable to the small, non-housed, clubs we
see on site....but they do not compete with us in any way, and
I find it interesting when comparisons or justifications are made.
I never felt a fraternity was a rehabilitation outfit, and it was, and is, still, somewhat elite.
But, maybe we oughta give a PhD at birth, and badges along with
popcorn at ball games. Just some observations.

Just like a moth to a flame, aren't you? :)

I don't think that you need a house to be a "real" fraternity or sorority. Some campuses just aren't set up for that. I think that it's great that non-traditional students and commuter campuses want to experience fraternity and sorority life.

I've never thought about this too much but there were some local organizations on my campus. Some of them were former Nationals (mostly frats) that had lost their charter and weren't recognized by the school. They were still pretty strong organizations and several of them hung out with other chapters that were nationally recognized. There were a couple of Local sororities but I really didn't know too much about them as they were very tiny (ie. 6 members) and really didn't participate in anything with the rest of the Greeks. I know this may sound bad but I really don't understand the point of pledging an organization that is not nationally recognized. At least I know every where I go there will be D*Phi*E you can't say that when there is one chapter of an organization on one campus. I'd love it if more locals decided to affiliate with a nationally recognized organization and become National, especially at SUNY New Paltz where there aren't too many organizations to begin with. But that is all easier said then done, I know. We have TKE on our campus by the way;)

Oh wow, I think I read this post wrong, way wrong. Uh oh.

First off, Greek letters are not the exclusive property of NIC, NPC and NPHC groups.

Alpha Phi Omega is a national service fraternity. We call each other brother, because we go through a pledging period which strengthens our bonds to each other. We are not a "club" and are certainly not a "gang."

We are a SERVICE fraternity so pretty much our reason for being is to serve the community. We are not permitted to have official houses (duh, we're co-ed) but members can and do live together in apartments and such. These houses do not have letters on them, ever.

If APO chapters are having mixers, not following the policy of nonselective membership recruitment, or putting more emphasis on social than service, that's wrong, and something that the majority of APO chapters do NOT support.

You are 100% correct in saying APO is not like TKE, or ASA, or any social GLO. It isn't supposed to be, and as I previously stated, the majority of its members support that view. It is not "lesser" or "greater" - just different.

differences
 

kinda like I figured...there are many differing opinions...I recall
we had about 30 Alpha Phi Omega members in the TKE house
at KU in the 50s. things change.
I was merely expressing an opinion. Lighten up.
The urban colleges, especially in the East, were not the top priority for NIC charters 'way back when.
There are a goodly number of them now, and these outfits do not
as a rule, grace the midwest or south...at least competing with the NIC, NPC groups.
Like I said...there are many differing opinions.

It is not "lesser" or "greater" - just different. [/B][/QUOTE]


I agree. And I absolutely hate people on Greekchat like this guy who are stirring up trouble and hiding behind their "lighten up I have a different opinion" view. They are the ones who were around ages ago who hazed and did really stir up real trouble and continue to do so. Stop it already.

Erik P. Conrad, things have changed since you were in college. Things have changed since I was in college, too. Instead of calling GLOs "little more than a club or a gang" because they don't have a house, perhaps you can give construct advice on how to improve things based on your experience. I am interested in your views especially about what you think alumni can do. People dislike criticism when there is no suggestion for improvement.

I was light, Erik, I was pretty much AGREEING with some of what you said. Believe me it pisses me off when I see service, professional or honorary fraternities - all of which have social aspects - putting the social first and downplaying their real mission. If one of these groups was operating like that in my orbit, I'd have no problem calling their HQ and saying "hey umm, you're a business fraternity but your chapter at Gray Squirrel U is full of ceramics majors who have mixers with sororities. What's that about?"

appropriate site
 

I posted on the TKE site and not on the "Greek Site" for the very
reason...I was addressing the NIC fraternity. not the various other organizations who have "expanded"
the meaning of "fraternity."
Had I wanted to include the locals, the streetcar/urban campuses,
I would have posted in a more-widely read section.
But, for those of you who want to respond, be it negative, be it
hateful...you are welcome...but remember, I am not addressing you. I have nothing in common with you, organization-wise, geographical-wise, and so on.
I am merely expressing an opinion. Gimme that, please.
The fact that TKE is on some of these campuses is beyond my
control. We have differences even within our group.
Some of you REALLY have your panties in a wad!

OK then here's my question: are there other members of TKE that are upset at the direction they are going as far as expansion is concerned? If you feel it's something detrimental to your fraternity, create a group and speak up to your exec board. I'm not being smartass or panty-wadded, I'm honestly curious, because heaven knows I don't always agree with my sorority's expansion philosophy either.

I was actually looking for suggestions. I didn't mean to offend. My apologies.

Quote of the month:
 

Quote of the month:

"things have changed since you were in college"

Vote here:

___ better?

___ worse?

Personally, I think the downhill slide started with TV.

We used to all gather around the big black and white TV for the big games/sports events, the big news events, and occasionally movies.

Over my four years, several members brought TVs for their rooms, and we lost the fellowship of being together around the only TV in the house.

Now every room has a TV.

And I thought my clients had issues.......................LOL.

My theory is fraternities changed after animal house. Fraternitys were in a decline before the movie. The antics in the movie made guys interested in fraternities again but fraternities had to do animal house type stuff to attract members. I think after hazing laws and such fraternities have gotten better. All the strict rules fines and high insurence make things difficult but keep most groups out of trouble. The bad apples get weeded out.
On the topic of fraternities going on a campus to small or where there is no room; I think some groups take the bigger is better attitude and if some chapters close they still have alot more. But the small school chapters usually die anyways. TKE's big mistake was back in the day when they started chapters at community colleges. Those chapters died quick and thank god they outlawed starting chapters there again.

--nice try, but
 

TKE chartered only two (2) junior (community) colleges, both in
Florida. Of 200 plus dead chapters, this is hardly an explanation.
I was a jc dean, by the way, and helped in the survey of all the
junior/community colleges...for NIC fraternities. The results were
ignored by the TKE htqrs and endorsed by an apathetic GC.
An unconcerned grand council plus poor leadership in the IHQ
were more to blame...less than truthful petitions, padded
membership, ersatz boards + advisers...and no alumni support.
The HQ ignoring of alumni took its toll. If Beta can go crazy with
15 man charters, and SAE continues to grow...why? Well, they
have had strong alumni support. Only recently has TKE realized
and acknowledged the importance and value of alumni support.
Few colleges outside the realm of the private ones, the State U's,
produce loyal (affluent) alums. Trying to do it with any less will
produce short-lived chapters on the vocational and commuter scenes. And if your chapter has under sixty men, no board or
advisor...I assure you, you'll leave subsequent members little but a terminal operation. But they do not have housing, they have little alum support....for most of those matriculates are in school to get the diploma asnd get the Hell out...
...and if they succeed...do they send their kids to the same type schools? Hell no. Bear in mind, we are discussing fraternities...
Am I simply a critic to all of this? No, I have been on TKE boards
for many years...still am...and helped shut down a TKE chapter last year for bad, real bad, behavior. The chapter was shocked
that we'd do it. And the chapter, 50 years old, 999 initiates, will
eventually be brought back...smarter and wiser--we hope.
Oh, yes, ANIMAL HOUSE helped boost the booze in the house &
openly at the parties. We had hefty fines for being caught with
booze in the house. I know...this was my generation. We were
responsible for our actions...and not looking for a handout, or a
sugar titty....How many actors in the fraternity/sorority movies were even in a fraternity...damned few. They even mispronounced TAU...rhyming it with cow...and it should rhyme with paw....duh! How many actors would fit and/or succeed in the
in the legit college scene anyway? There were many dropouts...
The NIC groups are, indeed, elitist. And if the cheapest were the
best...we'd all be driving Yugos.

Re: --nice try, but
 

I'm not getting involved with this discussion but I wanted to say something on this comment. How old are you? I didn't think people lived to be much more than 100 years these days. So, how do you know how and Ancient Greek word is really supposed to be pronounced? We supposedly pronounce the majority of our letters "incorrectly" but it's not that serious.

read your manual
 

you have shot your mouth off without knowing the tradition.
Yes, Tau rhymes with cow in Ancient Greek
But then Beta is beeta in Ancient Greek
Psi is psi in Ancient Greek
Epsilon is Eepsilon in Ancient Greek
Zeta is zeeta in Ancient Greek
Xi is zee in Ancient Greek
Phi is fee in Ancient Greek....
is it Allpha fee or allpha zee?
Theta is theetah in Ancient Greek and so on...
So, multi-cultural scholar, while I do not have any ancient Greek
ancestry that I know of, I do have a Masters (Illinois '65) in
liguistics.
The NIC fraternities, for the most part, have taken a quasi-wrong
prounciation of some of the letters. Perhaps you can, sagacious
one, change it...duh

I know what the books say. I have to become fluent in Greek for my degree. But, I have trouble believing that we can be sure how ancient languages were truly spoken.

ETA: My point is that we're butchering the language, in our Greek system, no matter what we do. That shouldn't be a point of contention when you're talking about the media. Besides, I was involved with an organization whose last letter was Tau. They pronounced it like "cow" while I pronounced it like "paw." They said I was wrong, I didn't think so. When I checked it out, I realized that it's hard to say who really was right or wrong.

you are right
 

we really agree in that many folks disagree on how some greek letters are prounounced...even sororities with Phi in their name
cannot agree.
If you have ever taken a course in linguistics or in ancient greek
you would never pass it if you came up with the question "How
do you know how they pronounced it?" Innocence accepted.
And while I am not quite as old as Socrates and even misspelled
'Linguistics," we do occasionally suffer from 'nervous keyboard'
Shall we move on to items, perhaps, more of substance?
My original question as "Tau" pronunciation had to do with the
poor research done by the Animal House crew...they simply did
not know how the word was pronounced, just went to Eugene
and asked no one who might have been a bit more knowledgeable. That was my point. I have been amazed how
many Betas pronounce, with unanimity, their name...quite in
contrast to Ancient Greek.
The fraternity/sorority mottoes...well, if you really want to hear
Greek butchered, preside at initiations....LOL

Erik, My Friend, once again you have raised the ire of many! But, You do it so well!:D


Quit giving fuel to fodder the fire of GreekDom as some know it!

Most only go back a few years and dont remember the old days!

Books and passed down Lore only mean so much these days where many did not have to really strive to attain Membership.

For those who may not be in the know, this man has started many TKE Chapters and beleived in the ones that should have been started. He does not agree with some of the Chapters started and that is what He is talking about.

I started a Greek Local, so, We both know and have an Idea what it means.

Methusila was old, but He was a student of Erik!:D

Oh, dont get on the "old kick", I despise that in KIDS!

I am not that far behind him!:p

He is a cranky old fart, I am just a Maturing Gentleman!:cool:

OH, watch out for The Horn!:cool:

A number of our chapters don't have houses and they aren't on what you would call "commuter" schools.

But then, we're just a large NPC group so we don't much count I guess..........

Oh, and I could care less how many chapters someone's started. The difficult part is keeping them going........

What about the newly resurrected Epsilon Kappa Chapter at Loyola University? No house, commuter, Catholic University yet, the quickest charter in the history of TKE.

Pardon' Oiu, is the same TKE Thread that I have checked before as a Friend of TKE?:rolleyes:

How many on here are TKEs? doesnt seem to damn many!

This sounds like give Erik Cow Pottying for a throwing contest in a BS Ring at a Rodeo!

Erik, My Good Friend you do raise the ire of many and is surprising how soon it gets around.:rolleyes:

Temper Thy Self. Please.:)

Many of the "Hard workers" do not really understand the work it took to do, but that was another life style.:cool:

Hey "OLD FART" When are you going to be in near Proximity with SIS and get togethering??????????:D

Keep me updated K!

I agree with you frater Erik P Conard. I'm a TKE from Long Beach, CA.

YITB
TKE is for life

lostu10 you are very correct!

I just wonder why some people come on a TKE Thread when not invited and then print what Your Frater Eric Conard has posted on the TKE site?

I have know Eric longer than most of you are old but, I respect Him and am and will always be His Friend and confidant.

He has More History in his mind than most people living!

I was told to take my head out of his Ass, well, you can imagine what My Response was!:mad:

Ask ZEKE what I mean!

It is a Thing Between TWO Interfaraternal Brothers. He knows what and who I am refering to!

EC, your still the shits, and am looking forward to when we get together in a few months!:cool:

Dear Eric,

Just wanted to let you know--
I go to a small school, about 4,000, where the greek community is thriving. We have 9 fraternities and 5 sororities, where many of the members hold leadership positions on campus. We go to an extemely conservative school where we are not allowed to have houses.
I can see how at community colleges a greek community would not exist for very long, but at my four year university we have had greeks since the late 1800's and Sigma Nu's Kappa Chapter (1881) still exists there today.

My comments to your remarks:

1. Have no houses
I recall reading something on GreekChat about your one of your chapters at UGA. They bought a house and no longer existed only s few years later! A house is will not necessarily help you to thrive on campus or have a successful brotherhood as your organization so poignantly proved.

2. Do little for the community
Just some of the fundraisers that greeks at North Georgia hold yearly:
**Camp Kudzu in Cleveland, Georgia that provides a week of fun-filled games and crafts for children who must constantly watch thier diabetes.
**Rock-a-Thon to raise money for philanthropies.
**Atlanta Area School for the Deaf-sold Christmas cards drawn by the students with all proceedings going directly to the school.
**Volunteer our time at the school carnivals.
**Holds a Hike for Hearing to raise money for the speech and hearing impaired.
**Run Dahlonega - raises money for the Rainbow House, a home for abused children.
**Shakedown - raises money for the Rainbow House.
******AND THAT'S EXAMPLES from only THREE of the FOURTEEN greek organizations on campus.******

3. Have little to offer their members
As a school where leadership is part of its core values, all of our greek organizations stress the important of leadership. We all are strongly urged to take leadership positions on campus, as well as attend leadership workshops held by our own organizations.

But, I digress...
**My $0.02 -- Successful chapters have little to do with houses and "eliteness". They take strong almuni guidance and support, a unyielding committment and bond between their members, as well as a National Office (or in your case International) who takes their time and carefully plans and supports chapters they begin.

KDKatie318
 

Great to hear from Dahlonega - I admire your school, and one of my closest friends lives in the hills near there.

I think you can establish that there were no active chapters at NGC for many years. SN may have been chartered there in the 1800s, but they were dormant for many years.

Best wishes.

healthy
 

I not only think it is healthy..for TKE...to have posts and views from other groups, but we are not closed to new ideas, either.
Several, though, miss the points made and perhaps are clouded
in defensiveness needlessly.
I never said the NIC chapters ought all to have houses. TKE and
others have existed for decades without a house on various campuses...for whatever reason. I do think one gets an added
experience by having lived in and operated a chapter house. I
cannot conceive dorm living, though, with fraternity closeness.
I never said the NIC chapters ought not to go on to commuter schools, and they, in themselves, are hard to categorize.
The differences we all have within our Fraternity simply points out
a diversity within which...is healthy. Serving on committees as well as being a volunteer...is good, but we do not always get our
agenda through. I have been in service with TKE over forty years, was a "hatchet man" at conclaves, and have seen a lot of
change during these times...some good, some not.
However, gentle reader, I am addressing TKE and perhaps other
like GLOs, mostly NIC (I salute the Phi Delts & Kappa Sigs for having the GUTS to leave NIC). Those who do not necessarily
"fit" are certainly welcome to express yourselves in here. Who knows, we might learn a thing or two!

Frater Conard,

I agree with you. I'm not as old as you are, being that I'm a recent graduate, but I can see where you're coming from. I could see it from the alumni from our chapter. They don't want to join an Alumni Association because they think our nationals are a joke or a scam. You need these guys to help you if you are ever going to get out of a problem. We don't have a house anymore because we had problems. Our chapter has been going through rough times since the mid 90s (or so I've been told). Alumni make your undergraduate experience better. I'm from a commuter school and I can see that with our chapter- it hasn't been until recently we actively try and keep alumni. Our chapter has a bunch of problems that a BOA & Alumni Group could fix but we can't get enough alumni. When you see how many alumni live in Orlando and Central Florida, you'd be surprised to see that its over 250 fraters. We have had trouble finding a Chapter Adviser that would even show up to meet with us. While our chapter isn't in bad shape and is improving vastly, we have strayed from the belief that numbers equal power. Since I've been initiated, we've initiated over 100 members. Our chapter size is 40ish and we've had about 15 guys graduate in 3 years. Our grades aren't great- avg of about a 2.5 GPA- but if you took the GPA of the 40ish brothers still here its over a 3.0. We aren't well known on campus- ZTA thought we were an academic or service fraternity even though our sweetheart was a ZTA. In this past year, we have had 8 brothers graduate which is a big step. Next year it looks like we'll have close to 20 graduates. We've got the ball rolling thanks to the help of Ryan Vescio (province advisor), Alex Rudloff (top teke last year), J. "Poppi" Endellmann (grand council), and a few other local alumni. I'm hoping that with each year we're able to collect a few more alumni and eventually pull our chapter out of the animal house rut we've dug ourselves into.
I have always wondered why some of our chapters are short lived. I think OGC is starting to head in the right direction with alumni retention but I think they started a little too late.


Yours in the bond,
Robert Boyd
the rainman
Xi-Iota 614


Florida is the greatest Southern Northern state.

Aw look at the trollperp. Trying to be all grown up and having an opinion and stuff.

LOL @ "getting cut" being an integral part of the Greek experience.

We've ALL done that.

http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Ra...e-fuck-out.jpg

Thank you.

I couldn't understand that post at all.

Actually, is it just me, or does the post sound like someone more familiar with either a fraternity or other non-NPC GLO?

Or perhaps more accurately, only familiar with stereotypes of GLOs and not actually been through any process his/herself.

I mean "get through pledging?" Not really the way you'd phrase it for your average NPC.

We say those things in the South.

Damn Yankee.

OMG - there is a post from hoosier in this thread!!

http://a4cgr.files.wordpress.com/201...y-theories.jpg

You know I was reading it that way as well. The post screams fraternity to me, not NPC sorority. And it looks like she has never heard of a coed social fraternity.