Loyalty Question
 

Hi, I've been struggling with this issue for a few months now and figured I'd ask the people here for advice since you all seem pretty chill and rational.

My sophomore year I decided to go through rush in order to meet people and make friends. On the first night of rush I met the XYZs and end up pledging them. I go through the semester and only have a few small problems (these will be discussed later) I kept to myself because I really liked the guys and thought I had found a good set of friends.

Anyway, towards the end of the semester I was dealing with some personal problems and my GPA goes to hell in about 3 weeks and I discover that I'm not only not going to make grades to initiate, but my semester average would be so low I couldn't repledge the next semester. At that point I noticed a marked difference in the way the brothers started treating me. A lot of them weren't as friendly anymore and some changed their nature completely. Guys who used to laugh and joke all the time barely had anything to say to me.

During this past spring semester all the guys who had once been great friends of mine and promised to keep in contact disappeared. My phone stopped ringing and I stopped getting invites to go anywhere. It was like a real kick in the head. All in all only 2 out of 60+ brothers stuck by me, which was especially bad since I had classes with quite a few of them. Thinking it was a case of out of sight, out of mind, I started making more of an effort to drop by and hang out with the guys and just felt a general sense of unwelcomeness, even from former pledge brothers.

Now I'm struggling with issue of whether or not I really ever belonged in the first place. During my pledge semester I had some issues with the way some things were done. The biggest one being how they were always talking aobut wanting to be the best and never backing it up. The best example would be the days we were supposed to dress up with our pledge pins. They would always harp on how we were supposed to look our best but let pledges slide by wearing any shirt so long as it was button-up with a collar and any tie. Brothers who never showed up for anything showed up for free food brotherhood events and a dinners with sororities; they of course spoke very strongly of brotherhood. They spoke so much of wanting to be the best and wanting to improve their image on campus but couldn't even bother to show up for a sorority serenade.

All of this has really put me in a crisis on whether or not I should repledge like I had previously said I would, pledge another fraternity, or just not do the whole greek thing at all. The huge problem with this is I feel a stronger bond to the organization than I do to any of the people in it. If I were to change schools, I'd seek out XYZ before any others. On top of that, I hate going back on my word. Would I be wrong for seeking out membership in a different fraternity? I'm not used to going back on my word and it feels almost wrong to abandon them even though they left me hanging first. On top of that the group I pledged doesn't exactly have a great image on campus, so joining another fraternity may be impossible. And even if it were possible, I wouldn't want to waste time on an organization that would haze me, and from what I understand, many on my campus do. Most importantly, I don't want to insult or hurt any of the guys. I don't dislike them, I just don't think I got the brothers I wanted from the whole deal. I don't want to spit in the face of the kindness my real brothers showed when I was their brother by no enforceable means at all. If I were in it for the girls and status and all that crap, this would be a much easier decision to make, but since all that can go straight to hell, I need your advice.

What would everyone out there do? Since most of you are initiates, how would you feel about losing a former pledge under circumstances like these? Is it just me or does not depledging make a sort of unspoken promise? How would you react to a guy like me rushing in the fall? Since I'll be a junior next fall should I think of myself as too old and just give up?

Sorry this was so long, but thanks to anyone who replies.

If you Re-Rush, would you be allowed to "rush" this fraternity again, or is it definatly choose them or rush others? Does your bid still stand??

If you have the option of Re-Rushing ALL the groups including XYZ (your fraternity, XYZ is what we typically use around here), I would try rushing again. This way both you and XYZ have mutual say in whether they and you would like to try things again. And maybe you'll find another fraternity that you fit in with better, and they will be able to overlook the fact that you started out as an XYZ.

I'm in an NPC Soroity, so we have spesifc rules about de-pledging and then rushing again, but from what I understand, the fraternity system is more leiniant on it, and many guys (from reading stories here) started out as an XYZ, but ended up really finding their home with ABC and being excellent brothers there.

Hope I helped some...:)

Thanks for the advice. I'll take that into account.

Last fall, XYZ was the only group I rushed very seriously at all. Sure, I filled out some info slips, but I basically did what my friends called "suicide rushing." I spent so much time with XYZ, if they didn't bid me, no one else would know me well enough to bid me. I just don't want my past with XYZ to hurt my chances with XYZ or anyone else. (XYZ requires 100% approval to extend a bid, and I don't get along with some of the guys.) Whether my feeling slighted or my sense of loyalty wins out, I want to have options.

answer to your question
 

sounds like you could make a difference in that organization if you got initiated. But, it also sounds like the guys have to want to improve as bad as they keep talking about it. Sometimes a new initiate can be that breath of fresh air and help create a new culture within the chapter and gain a much higher sense of accomplishment then if he had quit or pledged another group. But, of course you have to be up to the challenge.

Go Sammy and Axe Em' jacks!!!!

I have known guys have depledged from their fraternities and the next year (some even the next semester) pledged with a new house and realized that that was wear they were supposed to be. I am not going to lie and say that it was all gravy between them and their original houses after that, but they were much better as ABC's than XYZ's and they loved their new brotherhoods. If you aren't happy, don't do it. Don't give up on the Greek system yet, give rush another shot, you may find the brotherhood that you have been missing out on in a different organization. Good luck with whatever you decide, PM me if you want to talk about it! I would love to talk to you more!

A lot of guys make the mistake of rushing the wrong house. Very few have the maturity to admit it and the guts to go through rush again.

I'm sure you'll make the right decision.

I have to agree with ktsnake.

But, isnt there always a but, it seems as if this chapter professes a lot of things and do not follow up with them. Dont get me wrong, there are many chapters like this from all Greek Organizations, and each of hope it is not one of ours.

I am not sure if I would really want to rerush this Orgaization unless you have your heart set on this specfic Fraternity.

But, the main things is get your grades, that is the main prioity after all.

Becoming a Greek Member is icing on the cake.

I just wanted to say welcome, Ronso! This board is a good place to come for help and I'm sure you'll get lots of good advice :)

Good luck in whatever you decide!

I know someone who went through a similar experience as you. He was pledging and a few weeks before initiation dropped because he didn't feel that it was the right fraternity for him. There was no anger or hostility from or toward him. He was able to remain friends with some of the guys. He decided to rush again a year later and found the right fraternity for him. When he rushed, he was honest with the other fraternity. He told them that there were no hard feelings, but the chemistry was wrong with the first fraternity. He wound up being initiated into this second fraternity and being happy with his decision.

My point is it is possible to find the brotherhood you seek. Just improve your grades first.

I totally agree with everyone else when they say you should rush the GLO that you feel is the best fit. Yeah, you thought that XYZ was the one for you, but obviously, just by virtue of posting what you did, it isn't the group for you. I strongly suggest visiting the other groups on your campus and finding one that has a fit for you. Each GLO has different goals, ambitions, operations, etc. But, I'm sure you'll be able to find one that is ideal for you.

Good luck in your search! Don't give up on Greek life...it's meant a world of difference for me.

You're absolutely right, my grades are what's number one. I've since dealt with the problems that made my grades plummet (nothing that was fraternity related) and know that I am more than capable of handling classes, fraternity issues, and my own personal problems. Last fall, I was not.

On a side note, Tom, you should be happy to know that two of the guys who left XYZ are now brothers of LXA and are two of the best guys I know.

Thanks to everyone else for the adivce and well-wishing. Especially the Cardinal and Killarney. You two are only serving to further improve my already high opinion of your organizations. All the Chi-O's and DZs I've met locally have been nothing but the greatest women, nice to know it extends nationally.

Everyone else, keep the advice coming. every opinion I can get is needed and welcome. I'd especially like to know how you guys would feel if you lost a pledge to a situation like mine. So far the only decision I've made is to at least let the two brothers who stood by me know what's going on. Tell them if I come back, it means I'm committed to XYZ heart and soul. If I don't, I just want those two dudes to not hate me.

Ronso, first off, thank you for what you said about the two LXA Brothers. Must be something to us!:)

Secondly, I was blackballed by a well know Fraternity AB, and that summer I worked my rear off Founding a new Local with No members.

At the same time, there was another local trying to come onto campus.

With the help of a very few of the members of AB, they pushed hard for my local along with one Erik Conard, the then TKE advisor and some members of other Greek Organizations, we were accepted as the one to come on campus. There was only one going to be aloud at that time for your edification.

While there had been some people who did not speak to me or acknowledge me after being black balled, we were still there seeing each other everyday and I felt sorry for them, not me.

I wish you would PM me so we can talk as I have been there before. If they let you down, I am not really sure why you want to return there?

I can understand problems so dont worry about me, I can tell you some great stories about my college and Greek Experiences!:D

Don't be held prisoner by a misplaced sense of loyalty. Nothing, not one thing you told us about the XYZs would encourage us to join, so why should you? If you go back there you'll be stuck in the same chapter-wide mentality the rest of them have. Do what the D-Phi-E said: make the rounds, don't trash your original house (don't talk about them at all unless someone brings it up), and do talk about what you think you can contribute to a good fraternity chapter. I am familiar with chapters like XYZ. They know what they should do and what they should be, but they are too weak. Their identity and their leadership is just not strong enough to prevail. There is little liklihood that they will ever be a great chapter because they will recruit men who will prepetuate the weakness.
Go through rush, join another house and leave the XYZs to themselves. It happens all the time. Don't deny yourself one of the great experiences of your life.

Why would you even want to re-rush a group who didn't stick by you when you were having personal problems?

Idcidents like this make me sad :( Here is a fraternity that speaks about brotherhood so passionately, but when push comes to shove they don't put their money where their mouth is (sounds funny).

I'm real sorry that this was your very first experience with greek life. It reinforces some of the stereotypes that people believe about greeks.

When rush comes around rush again and don't suicide rush this time. Be open to all the houses, do some research and see which ones have the same opinions that you have about greek like.

My chapter had a girl that had to drop last fall because of personal problems. We were all devastated that she dropped our president encouraged all actives to send her an email, call her and let her know that we were still here for her, if she needed anything or just wanted to talk. We encouraged her to come back and rush in the spring and she did. I

I am happy to announce that she is now my sister and a very wonderful addition to my sisterhood.

Be happy and rush again. I hope that you find your TRUE home....It will be such a wonderful feeling when you find where you belong.

Good-Luck and I'll be rooting for you.

Speaking as someone who is out in the working world, I'd approach it like a job that didn't work out.

Go find something that's a better fit, but don't burn any bridges or trash your former organization (although they sound as if they deserve it). As someone suggested "It didn't work out" or "the chemistry just wasn't right" is a good neutral way of dealing with questions. There's nothing that sounds worse than someone bad-mouthing their former organization, even if it was deserved. And if the guys are jerks, people will already know this, and admire your restraint.

The fact that you aren't listing where you're from or naming names tells me that you have already figured this out.

It's a shame you had time to develop a fondness for the national organization, but there are plenty of good, strong fraternities out there. Greek life ends up paying dividends long after college is over, so I hope you're able to find a new home. Good luck.

Ronso,

I've been in a similar situation like yourself, although I wasn't a pledge or anything. I was interested in a sorority, loved the girls, great organization, spent alot of time with the girls (before and during the time I was interested). All in all, I was really impressed with the sorority. In the end, I had to part ways, because although locally things were great, I learned somethings about the organization and its beliefs that didn't mesh well with me (religious reasons). I still think they are a great organization, taught me alot about greeks (I really didn't know anything about them before hand), but I don't regret my decision. Now I am currently pursuing another organization happily.


My advice to you: RESEARCH thoroughly..both locally and (inter)nationally. Give the orgz on campus a chance.


Good luck on your search :cool:

I'd have to agree with most. You need to rush all the fraternities you can. That is the only way to decide which one is right for you and which ones aren't. I thought I knew what fraternity I was going to be in when I went to college, but through rush I discovered how much they truly sucked and didn't deserve me as a member.
Also, get to know the other "rushees". Find the guys you fit in with and who share your same ideals. It will (from reading your posts) be the ruling class of that fraternity at some point. It will be a fraternity that not only "talks the talk", but also "walks the walk".

Ronso,
Hello and welcome. :)

I have to agree with what everyone is saying, rush again. Keep your mind open, experience the other chapters, don't bad mouth the other chapter.

I definately have to agree with greencat. They should have stuck by you when you have personal problems. They claimed all this "brotherhood" and then when one is faltering, they don't even stick by you. No offense to them, but not cool in my book. I may not know you personally, but I do know that you definately did not deserve to be treated that way. :)

Good luck in whatever you decide to do and keep us posted. :)

Brianna

I agree 100% with what everyone else has said. I definitely think you should go into rush with the intent to visit each organization available at least once. I think its the only fair thing to do. I suicided last fall, I know the decision was right for me. I also attended the rush events for other GLO's on my new campus. I wanted to make sure that I chose a GLO based on a good personal fit. IFC rush is different in that they don't require you to attend events held by each fraternity (the way sororities do).

It really doesn't sound like XYZ is your best match. If I were you I would talk to the 2 brothers who your still friends with, and explain that while they are all great guys, you may not be the best match for them. I would also tell them that your considering rushing again and would like to still come to one of there rush events to see if this would work but at the same time you will be looking at other fraternities.

Everyone has doubts initially about where they belong. Sometimes things like this happen for a reason. Maybe it means your not meant to be a member of there organization, but maybe this your chance to try ABC and CDF. This decision is for life, not just your college years. I hope it all works out and you get the right brotherhood for you;)

Update and bump
 

After redoing rush this fall I got a much better feel for the houses on campus and even found one I felt fit me perfectly. Unfortunately I did not recieve a bid from any of the houses on campus including my old one. I've yet to decide if I want to put myself through the process again in the spring, but I'll update if I do.

Anyway, my thanks to everyone who posted or PMed with words of advice and encouragement, they went a long way towards helping me sort this out before rush began. I hope all of you had successfull recruitment/rushes both locally and nationally and continue to have great school years.

ronso
 

i don't know how i missed your postings the first time around! i am sorry that the outcome wasn't what you(and all of us) hoped for you. however, if you think that you might like to give greek life one more chance, there are some things you can do(if you haven't already) to show all the chapters what a great member you would be:

1) join a club or special interest group on campus-it can be one related to your major, or just a hobby

2) keep those grades up

3) volunteer your time to a worthy cause-it could be volunteering at a soup kitchen, tutoring a child or a fellow student, joining in on a campus wide volunteer event, etc.

items i and 3 will enable you to meet other students with similar interests and some of them will be greeks-networking is one of the best ways to become known, and in structured settings like the above, it takes the pressure off both you and any fraternity members you meet. sorority members also could be a help by gettng to know you and then introducing you to their fraternity friends.

you sound as if you would be an asset to any house. i hope you won't give up on greek life. lisa

I had a very good friend that pledged a sorority and ended up finding out during her pledging period that she was pregnant. She finished pledging and was not able to become initatied because she had to leave school because of her high risk pregnancy. Once she was able to return, the sorority president let her know that she couldnt be initiated. She was so devastated and went through rush again and was given a bid by another sorority where she is now an active and very happy! Some sororities and fraternities chapters are just not understanding!
Good Luck with whichever you choose to do!
Brandi

RONSO, the second time around is the hardest for re-recruiting. All of the Houses know that you went with xyz and left.

They may not know the real reasons that you left so wont recruit you.

Give it a little time and get to know members of other Houses.

Do your checking of what the Nationals Stand for, what other Chapters who are close are like.

It is hard to beleive that you would look back to the same house that you were in. Of course it depends on why you left. If they ignored you then I would have second thoughts.

You were not just trash to be set out curbside and forgotten.

Good Luck!:)

Not that I'm familiar with how fraternity formal recruitment goes, but isn't it just as "tedious" as sorority FR? I ask because I have heard on many occasions from PNM's who got cut or received no bids during FR but then went through COR/COB. Also, with fraternity as with sorority are there rules on GPA?

I ask this because if fraternity recruitment is anything like sorority there are so many more "rules" and "regulations" during formal than there is during informal.

My advice is, if there was a house you were incredibly interested in, get to know the guys better on campus. Maybe some of them are in your classes. Say hi if you see one around. If they aren't at total they might hold some informal recuitment activities, go to those because they will be a bit more "down to earth".

I also have to agree with FSUZeta, get involved on campus in other ways. Do some volunteer work. Most importantly take care of yourself (mentally and physically) and keep your grades up. Remember, even if you don't end up joining a fraternity, that isn't what college is about, it's about that francy shamancy diploma where it should come to gold plated for the amount of money you spent on it ;)


Good luck with whatever you decide to do and keep us posted!

Depending on when recruitment is, Fall or Spring dictates a lot.

Figure that a New Frosh going to College had good enough grades to Associate in the Fall.

Yes, NIC does have rules on GPA. If an Associate does not get the prescribed GPA, usaually higher than College they will be Initiated, if not held over for another Semester.

Only held over one time.

I am only speaking for LXA of course. But, I take for granted that most NIC Organizations are similar.