Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Has anyone seen it?

It's really big here in Texas... it's been getting standing ovations!

Hopefully I'll see it this afternoon before work!

Well I would have gone to see it, but the presiding local neocon Gestapo doesn't seem to take too well to films like this. I may be taking a road trip in the near future. ;)

I don't think it'll really change anyone's minds. What I don't get are all of these Republican-types screaming for it to be taken off screans. If you have maybe 2 or 3 functioning brain cells, you could figure out that Michael Moore isn't exactly unbiased and neither are his films. It doesn't take much in the way of mental processing capacity to figure out that not all of the stuff he claims is true -- just the opinions of a fella that has a lot of hate for the current administration.

I look forward to seeing the "documentary". It should be entertaining. If someone goes to it expecting a life changing experience, I think they'll be disappointed.

I really want to see it, but my ultra-conservative town won't show it :rolleyes: Good ol' Jerry Falwell let the Passion come to about 4 theaters, but won't let a liberal film in just one. The theaters say it's because they think it won't make money. I'll just have to take my business elsewhere and drive about an hour to see it.

If it's anything else like Michael Moore's other films, I'll love it. Sometimes he's a little too hard-core liberal for me, but I tend to agree with a lot of what he says.

Are you implying that The Passion was a conservative film?

Michael Moore really needs to move out of the US. The man really seems to hate his country.

texas*princess and i went to see it this afternoon.
i think he actually does it because he loves this country, which he states in the film.

he says he is trying to raise peoples awareness about whats going on with this film.
why would he waste his time doing this if he hated america?

i think a lot of times its hard to separate people hating actions of a country from actually hating the country itself.

This sounds like a man that loves his country:

He's apparently (or his distributor for him) is going to sign a deal with Hezbullah to distribute the film in Arab countries. A real American.

I have not seen this movie or "Bowling for Columbine," but "Roger & Me" still resonates over a decade later.

so when he tries to sell his movie to arab nations he's unamerican, but the fact that our president has been doing business deals with big name arabs including the bin Laden family for decades doesn't make him unamerican?

i think its rather unfair to call someone unamerican simply based on their choice to do business with any particular country.

and the quote from him sounds like a man who is frustrated with his government, and with the way we get information, not someone who hates his country.

I really don't see how Hezbollah has anything to do w/ film distribution in the Arab world. If Michael Moore is un-American for doing business in the Arab world, so is Coca-Cola, Pepsi, McDonalds, Hardees, KFC, Ernst&Young, Ford, Chevy, etc etc ad infinitum. Calling Arabs un-American is a pretty strong and inaccurate generalization.

Being a cynic doesn't make you unpatriotic.

Michael Moore film
appeals to terrorists
'Fahrenheit 9/11' gets thumbs-up from Hezbollah
Posted: June 17, 2004
5:00 p.m. Eastern


© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

Opponents of filmmaker Michael Moore are making the most of an endorsement his Bush-bashing film "Fahrenheit 9/11" received from terrorists affiliated with Hezbollah.

The Guardian of London reported today organizations related to the Middle East-based terrorist network have offered to help promote the film in the United Arab Emirates.

Rest of article here...
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=39012

You should consider that some organizations started as charitable or educational foundations and then a splinter group (militant, of course) took over. So if an organization is affiliated with, say, Hezbollah or Hamas, then it's not necessarily (and in most cases, not at all) affiliated w/ terrorist activity. Al-Qaeda, as I'm sure you're aware, was founded to be militant, so anything affiliated w/ them is, of course, suspect. But don't be so quick to make assumptions.

Your sources had a very obvious bias. My guess is that the film won't be overwhelmingly viewed in the Arab world.

Here's what Christopher Hitchens on Slate on MSN had to say:

To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery.


Read the rest here: He goes on to explain all the things he thinks Michael Moore embellished or just plain falsified.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

I'm going to see it tonight. I'll let you know what I think later.

Thanks for the link. I think this film will be thought-provoking and little else. Moore's history proves that's he's got a panache for sensationalist revelations. I am definitely going to see this film, but with a grain of salt in tow.

Michael Moore is a male who went onto one of the 60 Minute genre shows and said that F-911 was NOT a political film, and he expects us to believe his veracity?

On more than one station, on more than one broadcast, he has been "trapped" into admitting that he spliced the film to suit his own agenda.

He's not getting any of my money.





Postnote: If I had been Disney (the original distributor), instead of just saying that I wouldn't put it out, I would have just delayed it again and again, until, oh, mid-November. Sometimes that mouse isn't very bright...

I personally thought the film was very intruiging.

Back in 2000, I voted for Dubya. And honestly today I will vote for Kerry in a heartbeat.

I laughed, I cried, and I cheered at the end.

I definitely think for those critizing something you haven't seen yet, you should really try to go in there and see it with an open mind.

While people may say "this man is biased", yadda yadda yadda, think of what you've seen in the news... CNN, FOX, whatever. That's biased too. They show you what they want to show you, and in my opinion, Moore is showing you what the media didn't cover.

:)

ETA: check out his website for reactions tp the film from ppl across the States. www.michaelmoore.com

DID YOU READ THE LINK KTSNAKE POSTED???




No matter your politics, Michael Moore is a piece of trash.

I have not seen this movie, I dont think that I want to see this movie. AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LIBERAL VS. CONSERVATIVE. DEMOCRATE VS. REPUBLICAN...YADDA YADDA YADDA.

9/11 is still very close to my heart, I had a friend in those buildings who barely excaped with his life and was in the World Trade Center in the first attack. My mother was in NYC on that day. I'm still very raw.

Yes I am a cynic and I have no love the current administration. But I'm also not a polyanna when it comes to this country, all branches of the govenment and the military, I'm a realist.

But I do believe that this statement that ktsnake quoted michael moore on

Is partially true, most if not all should be embarrased with our knowledge of geo politics and how the rest of the world views the US and I'm not speaking of just the Middle East or our "enemies" its happens with our Allies...we saw a taste of this during the start of the "war". We are not forced, but choose to ignore it. We are naive (myself included)...yes we need to take care of "US" first, but we also need to have an awareness of what is going on outside and have good working knowledge of our International Policies. We have to ask ourselves why do "people hate us so much". Why do some US citizens say they are from Canada when traveling abroad?

Like I said I haven't seen the movie I haven't planned on seeing it, but I do wonder if he asks some very hard questions that most people don't want to face let alone answer.

And of course the movie is going to be slanted...ITS HIS MOVIE, HE CAN SLANT IT ANYWAY HE WANTS.

I also wanted to comment on selling the movie overseas, esp Middle Eastern Nations....have we all conveniently forgotten that the US Government and as well as Business continued to do busines with Germany and Japan during WWII?

LIKE EVERY OTHER MEDIUM OUT THERE, why get mad when Michael Moore does it? because he's unapologetic for it? PLEASE :rolleyes:

we need to get off our collective highhorse and move on

I am looking forward to seeing it. Even my mother in law (who plans on voting for the Conservative party in the Canadian elections) plans on seeing it

If someone agrees with Moore, then they also agree with Hezbollah on something.


HC If Bush loses, Hezbollah will be happy.

HC People sympathize with terrorists who would lop their heads off if they met face to face?

Who said anything about anyone sympathizing w/ terrorists?

I think that regardless of who wins or loses in November these animals are going to hate the U.S. regardless. We're not talking about rational people here. They hate America and everything we stand for, and it makes little difference to them who's holding the office of President.

It certainly seems like they prefer one candidate over the other though.

Wonder why that is?

I always thought Kerry looked kind of French.

Leni Reifenstahl's Triumph of the Will had that same effect to the people of Germany in the 1930's.

A movie is a movie. If it's trying to mess with your mind about politics or any other agenda, maybe you should think about why you're allowing it to do so.

Quote:

I laughed, I cried, and I cheered at the end. I definitely think for those critizing something you haven't seen yet, you should really try to go in there and see it with an open mind..

I'm sure you did - MM is a very good cinematogist! As for keeping an open mind, why should I? I've heard what HE has to say about his movie. I've heard HIM explain his agenda. I don't have to go out into the barn to know that manure doesn't smell like Chanel #5!

Quote:

While people may say "this man is biased", yadda yadda yadda, think of what you've seen in the news... CNN, FOX, whatever. That's biased too. They show you what they want to show you, and in my opinion, Moore is showing you what the media didn't cover. :)

Edited, of course, to fit the agenda of Michael Moore, by his own admission. At the risk of redundancy, I'm basing my views on what I've heard MM say.

Quote:

ETA: check out his website for reactions tp the film from ppl across the States. www.michaelmoore.com

I will, and I will keep an open mind. But I will also know that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction!

Not to split hairs, but the correct term is "cinematographer". :)

I saw this movie last night and I was completely astonished. Obviously Michael Moore has an agenda - that is obvious - but what he's showing you has really happened...there's no denying the facts. I honestly believe every American should see this film and know about what's happening in our country behind our backs.

Also, I loved that Moore did not show the towers. We all have that mental picture and just playing the sounds on a black screen made it so much more powerful! Similarly, he did not showcase the recent prison photos or the people who have been beheaded.

I definitely agree. I also liked how those images were not shown.

Since the news of 9/11, I haven't seen footage of the towers or anything related to the incident... but wow.. as dorky as this sounds, just hearing the sounds made me tear up.

I'm not going to go back and fourth and argue with ppl on the internet about the film or my opinions of it... just wanted to throw out what I thought about it after I saw it. If people don't want to see it, then don't. :)

THe film isn't about the republicans vs. the democrats or conservatives vs. liberals.. hell, even though I plan on voting for Kerry, I may vote Republican in the next Pres. Election after this one coming up... it's just putting out there what most ppl didn't know about the current administration.

edited for my crazy spelling!

I won't go and see this movie, probably because I can't stand Michael Moore. Anyway, I saw this review of the film and thought some of y'all may be interested in it...

linky link

Here's an excerpt...

As I sat there in the dark I kept wanting to scream out rebuttal facts and arguments to the screen, and this is a point that I want to drive home. The vast majority of people out there, be they liberal or conservative or otherwise, do not get as involved in political discourse as most people in the blogosphere. The analogy I use is with sports or cars. We all have friends who know everything there is to know about sports. They can rattle off every insignificant fact or statistic at the drop of a hat, and are able to do so because they have an interest in the subject and spend a lot of time learning about it. There are people who are the same way about cars or computers. I, for example, know very little about sports. So if I was watching a documentary about sports, without having specific knowledge to the contrary I would tend to believe the facts presented therein. Most of the people watching Moore’s film tonight will undoubtedly take a similar tone towards this film. Since they are most likely not politics or news junkies they lack the information necessary to formulate any kind of a reasonable counter-argument, which is why Moore’s tricks and omissions are going to be effective.

I wasn't planning on seeing this on the big screen (due simply to the scary hygeine of Michael Moore, LOL) but 2 of Mr. 33's more liberal friends wanted to, so I did. Most of the things he said are not news. They're simply put in a handy package for those who didn't want to sift through all the articles.

And it was kind of disturbing how he tries to put across Saudi = Bad. That isn't true at all. He's ripping on the Patriot act, but his film had the same opinion.

Some of the things he said were just asinine - like saying that only one Congressman has a child in the service. Without knowing how many Congressmen have children, or children who are of age, this statistic is MEANINGLESS. It's solely there to try and make you pissed at the House of Reps.

And the part where he got into how the lower income kids who enlist give us the gift of protecting our country - geez, get a clue - I would be surprised if 20%, hell, if 10% of the people who sign up for the armed forces nowadays give 2 craps about defending our country. They want the steady paycheck and school paid for, and half the time are just SHOCKED when they actually get called into service. It's horrible to lose your life in war, any war, but if you sign up and don't know what you're getting into (or willfully delude yourself) I question if it isn't natural selection. Of course there are slimeball recruiters out there - and I think the whole GI Bill system should be revamped so that you don't get $$ for school unless you have been drafted. I think there would be far fewer people signing up for the wrong reasons because of this.

At any rate, I don't think Moore will ever top Roger and Me. That movie was great, because it came from his heart. I could totally relate to it, being from a similarly dying town (although not as severe). Ever since then, he's tried to live up to that and hasn't been able to because the movies are being made to publicize him, more than whatever the issue is.

i saw this movie--- it was AMAZING. ppl clapped and cheered during the whole thing and i live in the DIRTY SOUTH ((conservatives galore)). it is great and everyone, even if your a huge bush fan, should see it, because it shows a WHOLE OTHER story that we havent been told...............

'Fahrenheit 9/11' Sets Documentary Record

http://breakingnews.nypost.com/dynam...=ENTERTAINMENT

LOL - I went back and forth on what the correct term was, and I thought someone would correct me if I was wrong!


Look, I'm not out to cause division, or say that I'm right and everyone who disagrees with me is wrong. And, if there is a way that I can see this movie without putting money in MM's pocket, I will. BUT!!! Please don't be naive and think that it's not political. MM has said time and time and time again that his purpose was to get President Bush out of the White House. Last Friday's USA Today (hardly what I would consider a conservative paper!) had not one, but several articles concerning this very topic.

This is one article: USA Today and one quote from it:
"Such criticism focuses on a segment in which Moore suggests that 24 bin Laden family members and 118 other Saudis were improperly allowed to leave the USA by air soon after the 9/11 attacks. Critics say the film implies that the Saudis left while civil aviation was still grounded. In fact, commercial flying had resumed, and the FBI had screened many of the Saudis.

Joanne Doroshow, an associate producer of the film, says the sequence is 'somewhat confusing, admittedly.'"

That's the associate producer of F911, admitting that things are out of sequence, people!

And from Michael Moore himself: ''I would like to see Mr. Bush removed from the White House,'' he said Sunday on ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos. Yes, George Stephanopoulos - from the Clinton Cabinet.

There's a somewhat crude expression about not pissing on my leg and telling me that it's raining - and I personally feel that Michael Moore is pissing on a lot of impressionable young people's legs.

so those who have the same views, or who believe a lot of the footage in this movie are automatically young and impressionable?

the people sitting behind us in the theater were a couple who looked to be in their 70-80s and they were cheering right along with the rest of the crowd.

so he wants bush out of the white house and that automatically invalidates the theories and ideas presented in his movie?

i dont think he's ever pretended that he was for bush, or that he wanted bush to stay in the white house, so that's no news.
granted, some clips in the film were edited to his liking, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of this information is valid and factual.

the same could be said for the current administration. they want bush to stay in office, and they only release things they want to release in the fashion that they choose to help their cause.

I think someone would have to be crazy to not believe that this movie is political. And equally crazy to believe that Moore doesn't have an agenda. Some may agree with his agenda, others not. However, if it's true that he's stretching the truth to promote the agenda, it totally destroys his credibility. Besides, truth is always stranger than fiction. The truth in and of itself would have provided ample fodder for him, so there was no need to go any further than that.

(Glad I could be of help to you, honeychile :) )

how could someone not see that it is political?!
silly people...

Lyrica9, swissmiss04 does sum up what I was saying, very well!

The footage IS probably valid - but even MM's assistant admits that it's manipulated. And granted, each administration puts its own spin on what happens at any given time.

But that last line is just wonderful: "The truth in and of itself would have provided ample fodder for him, so there was no need to go any further than that."

Amen!

Yes but, if people would see this film and how Bush handled everything from 9-11 to the war in Iraq, a lot of people will be agreeing with MM.

***

I hate the people who say that many young people who watch this film don't know much about politics and are easy to sway. I think a lot of young people are more informed than society gives us credit for.

yea.. those first few moments of footage after Dubya was told about the 9/11 attacks were priceless.

I'm sure he probably wasn't sure what to do, because even I wouldn't know what to do if I were in his position, but to just sit there with a curious george look on his face made ya wonder..

The majority of people that were in the theater when I went to see this movie Friday were actually older people. There weren't that many younger individuals in the crowd that night.

I'm also very tired of the "young and impressionable" bs argument because young people can be very informed. And to be honest I don't think they are at a greater risk of having their legs pissed on than anyone else who isn't "young."

Lastly, if you haven't seen the movie you should go check it out before you continue to bash it (this is to everyone). No matter the politics behind it or the agenda it tries to push just suck it up and go see it.

As if a few minutes after 9/11 changed the world.
As if people would have responded better had they been in his shoes but really weren't.
As if he intentionally wanted to harm our nation and its citizens.

-Rudey

I definitely won't be seeing it. It's just propaganda against Bush and Republicans and general and I have no interest in seeing that. I can't believe they even use the word documentary to describe it. Yes, the event happened. But I find it hard to believe that someone as petty and absurd as Michael Moore didn't skew the details a bit to paint a horrible picture of Bush. If someone could have prevented 9/11, don't you think they would have? Regardless of what party a politician is in, I do not think they would just let something like that happen.