Pledging Deadline
 

How long has pledging ever been?? A rule of thumb is till they finish their assignments, but what if it takes longer for them to finish???

Re: Pledging Deadline
 

You're part of a local, right?

If that's the case, then your pledging is as long as you want it to be unless otherwise regulated by your Greek Life Office.

The campus and the organization itself (ie. Nationals office) have specific requirements as to this. However, many individual chapters choose to ignore these guidelines so can't really say how long it is verses how long it should be.

but my point is what if they dont finish the assigments??? do you let them cross?

what kind of test??? so if some people pass it they cross and the rest who failed cant?? is that what you are saying?? assignments like going to a certain number of meetings ( we allow people to miss meetins for papers/exams, or important things), we dont require to go to every single meetings. what else, like volunteering, fundraising, go to deaf events..... learning greek alphabet of course!! lol.....stuff like that.....not hazing assignments like the scavenger hunt or cleaning up house.........

i know when i was a new member we learned about our local and national history, facts about our org, rules etc. and that's what our test is over. to make sure we knew our facts and history and understood what we were getting ourselves into.

Ours has been 8 to 9 weeks long, our national allows a max of 12 weeks, if it needs to be longer then we would need to petitition the National Council, after they approve the longer duration then the process would continue. We have usually around 3-4 tests that must be passed the 1st time with 80 percent, only 2 retakes are allowed and must be passed with 90 percent. On failing the second retake, you are out of the program unless approved by both the Memed-Committee and the Chapter. Of course if they are doing exceptionally well, we would most likely shorten the period if they've completed everything and we feel they are READY(by ready, your chapter would have to define that, it would be different for your chapter than it is for our chapter). But that being said, look for a cohesiveness among the pledges and a willingness to do good for the chapter among the individuals.


edit PS
We have a Post Initiate Process which all of the chapter does during the year. Our sponsor just picks random but important things about our chapter, district and National organization. These really aren't pass fail, but they help to make each individual learn more and strive for more knowlegde about the organization. Basically, usually 10 to 20 things. We answer on a sheet of paper the questions are read aloud. At the end we talk about the correct answers and see what we didn't know and write down. Of course if you think you've got it right, you can answer out loud before the real answer is read. Since our advisor, is an alumnus of our fraternity and a former Southwest District President, he has a lot of information to pass on to us and hopefully this semester he's going to teach us some fun and hilarious songs sung in the past at different chapters and nationally(most aren't anymore).

We didnt have to take a test because apparently it is considered hazing.

In APO, the pledge guidelines are 6-10 weeks. We'll see what happens in the Fall as we just chartered on campus.

You don't have any sort of member exam at all? Even one that the actives take each year?

No.

We'll have little mini-quizzes that the New Members will take each week, but they're not really quizzes in the traditional sense. Usually they're "open-book" as in, your New Member manual is right there w/ you so you can look up the answer and fill it in. It's more to ensure the girls actually read the info.

According to our policies, quizzing is considered hazing.

I thought that every sorority had a yearly membership exam that EVERYONE (pledges and sisters) took. If everyone does it, it wouldn't be hazing. I don't know how else you could ascertain that your membership knows the basic information of the sorority.

I dunno...we just don't do anything like that.

As for ensuring the members know their basic info - yes, it's very frustrating when you meet a girl who doesn't know, for example, all the letters of the Greek alphabet (I've met girls in other NPC's who don't know this either though, so it's not strictly Alpha Xi Delta. I knew a girl who had an AZD chapter on her campus but didn't know what the X was), but by our standards making them memorize that is hazing.

We have a Fraternity Heritage chair who will usually read a historical tidbit at each meeting. Some of our Programs also incorporate fraternity heritage. And of course, we always have our New Member manuals and history books to reference.

Our pledge process is a 10wk dry process. Our pledges learn our history, both national and chapter, plus the information about our pledge pin and our necklace. Pledge also have to learn "special rules" that our sorority lives by.

we test them on the information that they have learned and if they don't earn a certain percentage then we can let them go and our pledges are aware of that rule. If the girls are having trouble as a class then we can extend the pledge process another 2-3wks, as is allowed by our HQ.

Whe my chapter was in the process of becoming a chapter, our charter class 's pledge period was a whole semester. Yep 16wks, such pain.

On my campus the "pledge" process ranges from 4wks to 10wks depending on the sorority

If at any point we feel as though our new ladies won't get everything done in time for their scheduled intiation, we sit down with them and try to figure out what to do (extend the MIT period, have more meetings to make the deadline, etc.) We try to never make a decision without their thoughts/concerns in mind. Anything to make them most comfortable.
We do have a test at the end of the period, but since it's now considered hazing by our Nationals to use the scores as a way to decide if they should pass, we've turned it into a fun little event where everyone (actives included) take the test just for fun -- and the new member and active with the highest scores get a little prize. It'd be nice to have some measure of how the girls have done over their new member period, but usually we can tell that throughout the weeks with them.

Phi Mu also does not CURRENTLY have an exam taken during pledgeship. We used to have one, and last time I heard, Nationals was in the process of creating one as a part of the revamped new member program. BUT as of right now, there is no exam and any chapter who is giving one is hazing. Because there is nothing standardized, it's impossible to regulate, thus giving it the same preventative purpose as outlawing scavenger hunts ("it's not always bad... but it COULD be").

In my chapter, we play games like Phi Mu Jeopardy, recite the Creed, and turn in weekly homework, to make sure that the girls are learning the history. The new members also have study groups where they focus for one hour a week on learning the material. But when it comes right down to it, there is not a 100% valid way of ensuring that new members know everything before inititation.

OK , some of the post that I have read have mentioned that your sororities/fraternities have done away with test for NM because it is considered hazing if actives don't take a yearly membership test.

Here's my question. How is that Hazing?

I know I did what I needed to do to become a sister of my org, I would have done almost anything that was legal to get in, because I wanted my org so bad. I never considered it hazing, we all had to take a test to get in so to me that's not hazing.

It seems to me that everything we do as sorors and fraters is considered hazing.

pretty soon we're not going to be able to have new member pins, because that would be hazing, since actives don't wear them.

As a matter of fact, we do not enforce the wearing of the Phi ribbons. We make ribbons AVAILABLE so that new members may show their pride for the organization, and we can even suggest that they could wear them every day to class, to the gym, to the cafeteria, etc., but it's pretty much unenforceable. Because what happens if a girl is seen without her ribbon? Any sort of punishment that would ensue would be considered hazing.

However, I see your point. Like I mentioned earlier though, many of the rules about hazing may not seem practical at first glance. New member tests are one of those examples. When a standardized new member test prepared by the national organization is given, I wouldn't consider it hazing in any way. Most NPC organizations agree; Phi Mu and AZD are exceptions to the rule, I think.

But here's a different example: Suzy Pledge Educator has a feeling that some of her pledges don't have their heart in the right place and aren't being pledged hard enough. She wants to make sure that the new girls realize how important it is to know the history of ABC sorority. So she creates a test... a test so hard that probably the majority of the chapter would fail. She asks questions about obscure dates that aren't mentioned in the pledge manual; she requires rote memorization of entire subsections of the Constitution and Bylaws; she asks the hometown and major of every single sister in the chapter. And she tells them that if ONE of their fellow pledges doesn't make 80% or above, they all have to take the test over and over again until they all meet her standards.

Granted, this is an exaggerated example meant to prove a point. My point is that many of our regulations about hazing are created to cover all our bases. A lot of things outlawed (like my original example of scavenger hunts) could be a positive, haze-free new member activity. But things could also go very, very wrong. Our national organizations avoid these types of incidents in ONE of the only ways they can- by eliminating the activity completely.

I see your point about the test. I would hate to be a NM being guided by Suzy Pledge Educator. What would she do if all the NM's decided to drop right after taking that test? How would she explain that to her house?

I wouldn't want to be her when her house finds out why all the NM's dropped.

Could you imagine what would happen if some PE actually did do this? Heads would roll :D

Okay, I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second. Just for the sake of argument, couldn't the testing of initiated members also be considered hazing? We talk on this board about how you can haze active members too...wouldn't requiring active members to achieve a certain score on the test be an example of this? If the actives don't achieve a certain score, then there is a negative consequence (in this example, the loss of member points).

Thoughts?

ETA: Another thought. Wouldn't it be better to be preventive and not do anything questionable than to run the risk of being shut down b/c you've been hazing?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AXiD670
Okay, I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second. Just for the sake of argument, couldn't the testing of initiated members also be considered hazing? We talk on this board about how you can haze active members too...wouldn't requiring active members to achieve a certain score on the test be an example of this? If the actives don't achieve a certain score, then there is a negative consequence (in this example, the loss of member points).

Thoughts? [/QUOTE

My thoughts are this. No it would not be considered hazing because everyone has to take it and yes there are consequences for the actives, but there are also consequences for NM.

So if I understand the derfinition of Hazing, then as long as there is a consequence for all that take the test when it is given, then correct me if I am wrong, it cannot be considered hazing.

NM need 85%....NO 85%, no initiation....consequence
Active need certain score....no good score points taken..consequence.

I don't think this is the case. We require members to have a certain GPA, and if they do not meet those standards, there are negative consequences. Personally, I don't see this as being any different.

I like the idea of taking away member points. If you give the test to the entire chapter, but the initiated members know that nothing will happen to them if they fail, but there is a negative consequence for only the new members, I would still consider that hazing.

Edited: It does matter, I think, how many member points it might be. Not being initiated is a serious, drastic consequence. If only, say, 5 member points are deducted, and those can be made up by doing an extra study hour... well, that seems unfair.

In this case, I really think this is an excellent way to do things!

Okay, just so we're all on the same page regarding the definition of hazing, I copied the definition from the NPC's website. It reads:

"Hazing is defined as any action or situation with or without consent which recklessly, intentionally or unintentionally endangers the mental or physical health or safety of a student, or creates risk of injury, or causes discomfort, embarrassment, harassment or ridicule or which willfully destroys or removes public or private property for the purpose of initiation or admission into or affiliation with, or as a condition for continued membership in a chapter or colony of an NPC member fraternity."

I agree w/ CarolinaCutie that there is a difference b/w preventing someone from being initiated b/c they can't attain a certain score on a test and docking say 5 or 10 points from an initiated member for not passing the test. But how do we determine how many points are fair and would be equivalent to no initiation? In this case, it's 75. What about 50? Or even 25?

What happens if the new member still can't pass the test after the 2nd try? How many attempts do they have to pass the test?

The way hazing has always been explained to me, any kind of separation of new members and active members is hazing. Just b/c both initiated and non-initiated members take the test, if there is a different consequence (for example, no initiation for new members versus losing points for active members), then it could be considered hazing. Why couldn't we just deduct points from the new members for not passing the test instead of preventing them from or delaying initiation?

For the record, I'm not trying to argue that testing new members or initiated members is wrong or that it's hazing, because obviously many of the NPC groups think it's okay since it's a requirement. I'm just trying to present possible arguments and point out that the gray area is probably a bit larger than we sometimes realize.

Also - thoughts as to ensuring that our members know the history. I agree that it's important that we all know the history of our organizations. In fact, some things are hard to forget when you see them every day (i.e. your org's colors, your symbols and mascots are common b/c they're on every piece of 'nalia you own!). But really, are you going to consider someone who has a 4.0 GPA, is chapter president, has 100% participation and a true leader and asset to your GLO a bad sister b/c she can only recite the names of 3 of your 8 founders? What advantage is being able to recite from memory the name of all of your founders anyways? The meaning of the ritual that you hold inside your heart is not something on which you can be tested.

Again - I'm not trying to argue it's not important to know your history or information, I'm just curious as to what people think how practical it is to require memorization of facts for membership.

If they can't pass the test after the 2nd try, then I guess they need to take it a third. If they really do not know that information after a 2nd try then:1) they are an idiot and you don't need an idiot in your chapter, 2) your PE is an idiot and a bad leader. A good leader will motivate those who need to know, to know. They will make fun jeopardy type games and give little prizes to those who excel. There should be team work and sisterhood involved, not just rote memorization. The NM's big sister (sponsor-whatever) needs to be calling her and saying "Hey! I know we've got that test coming up, let's go get icecream and study together". During NM meetings these things should be discussed and have question answer sessions. Is Suzi NM doesn't know her stuff, someone needs to take her aside and say "Hey, what's going on? Are you stressed out, to busy, confused by the information, have test anxiety-what?" And try to help her.

My chapter made it a really fun thing. We had a contest. First of all we took the test but the chapter was there. Each NM had a few sisters on her Team. The NM who had to have the least amount of help on her test from her Team mates "won" and the whole team got a prize. That way-all NM's passed. But it was very motivating to study and not let your team down. There were no consequences or anything for not being prepared or coming in last, but it was fun and the team mates were encouraging, not down putting. We never had a girl fail. They didn't all get hundreds, but they all passed ligitimately. But knowing you could get a little help alleviated some of the anxiety.

We don't take test but will still do learn the hostory of our org. Sometimes on retreats and stuff we will play jeopardy with the history just to make sure everyone knows it but we don't penalize anyone for not knowing it. Even though we don't have test everyone in my chapter knows almost everything there is to know still.

I think people are interpreting a member exam slightly differently...I don't mean one that the chapters make up, I am talking about a standardized test, the sorority equivalent of the SAT, straight from the national office. Any additional quiz or test is (now) considered hazing. I think quizzes would be beneficial to learn a little at a time, but oh well.

I'm also talking about a minimum % to be made, again decided by the national office.

There should be more to pledgeship than memorizing dates, but unless you are completely uninterested or have a negative IQ, honestly, these tests are NOT that hard to pass. If you can't put forth that little bit of effort why bother joining at all?

amen!!!!!!!!!!!

You may want to go to the Kappa Delta website and look for "The Norman Shield" that is the name of their new member manual. I t is available on line now. It is a week by week account of what is discussed, what is to be done, "assignments" as you call them, etc. Maybe you could use it to help you pace your program a little better. But seriously-4 to 8 weeks is the minimum/maximum that most groups do (I think).:)

I think its a darn shame that a person who joins a sorority or a fraternity not be asked to take an exam that tests them on the history, rules, regs, and etc of the organization they are seeking membership. How harmful is it to test their knowledge? They are not being placed at risk of death or injury. When people become a part of an glo and do not know the greek alphabet that is a sad day in greekdom. How can these people defend their org if they do not know its history? That means that there are people in these orgs who do not know jack about their own orgs history. These colleges and universities should start conferring degrees to people who just simply gravitated to the school because they like the look of the campus-- to hell with midterms and final exams because that causes mental anguish to the students.:confused:

When I was a pledge, taking my exam actually was really fun. It was a take-home exam, and when it was due, our pledge moms and the class got together and went through it. The girl with the most answered questions got a prize.

Reading through it was really funny, because on the question about DPhiE's policy on hazing, one of my pledge sisters answered in this sweet voice, "We do not haze." (Which is true.) The stress of spring semester must have been getting to all of us, because we all started laughing, even her!

Alpha Delta Pi's new member program lasts 6 weeks. All new members must be initated by the 6th week.

As of this fall.... New member sessions consist of bonding and getting-to-know you activities that also include discussions about the sorority, its values and the values of the individual.

Independently, members complete a brief series of online tutorials with online quizzes about ADPi. This culminates with a final on-line quiz of multiple choice questions. There is also a portion that the new member coordinator gives, which is a fill-in-the-blank about the local chapter's history.

Anything given to new members in terms of quizzes, gifts or activities, must pass through nationals and be approved.

New members must get at least an 80% on the Initation Exam in order to be initiated. They may retake it as many times as necessary to make that score. Post-initation years, the collegiate members all take a yearly International Test in order to remain members in good standing, which includes questions about sorority history, geography and hierarchy.

D Phi E does have a test that NMs take, but it's completely open book. You can use any materials you want to when you take it, and it's not meant to be hard. I mean, if you're taking this test, and you don't know something, you're looking it up to learn it, and then you do know it. Like the other D Phi E on here said, it's not meant to be hard or punishing. It's used as a learning tool, as it should be.

We have weekly quizzes and a Final Exam for APO. Without them I doubt as many people would know the history of the brotherhood. Plus, memorizing the greek alphabet is always fun!

I am not disagreeing with you... but I just wanted to point out that it is entirely possible to know about the history of your organization and of Greek organizations, even the Greek alphabet, without taking a written test.

Our nm period is longer than most NPCs on campus. I think it's about 11 weeks or so. We give quizzes every week of the nm period as apposed to the BIG test at the end of the period. Quizzes cover history, rules, philanthropy info, the greek alphabet, who all the other greeks in campus are (well, unfortunately, not ALL of them), what all the committees do, etc. Basic "need to know when you are active" stuff. If a nm can't pass the test the first time given, she has multiple times to pass it after. Retakes are given on later meet ups. If the group cannot collectively pass all the quizzes initiation is delayed until they do so.

Just throwing in another Local perspective.