Canadian Politics
 

Well I noticed that while there was a lot of discussion over US politics, there didn't seem to be a thread for people (all people) to express their views over the upcoming election (June 28th) or Canadian policies..... so now there is one.

I'd like very much for people to play nice and try to stay civil.. but we all know that some won't.... but lets try and keep the thread from devolving into a childish flame war.

Oh for those intrested in information about Canadian politics... or which party your views most match please visit the following sites:
www.politicswatch.com
-or-
www.canadawebpages.com

So to start it off.... what are people's thoughts on the different party platforms so far?

I was shocked to discover that my views are actually more in line with the NDP than the PCs.... quite shocking to me actually as I have always opposed the NDPs for being a bunch of tree-hugging hippies :D

However in speaking with Jack Layton at a function recently I was suprised to discover that they actually do favour an increase of funding to the military (my pet issue) something I'd always assumed they opposed... anyone else had any revelations during this campaign?

Good thread.

I'm adding the Green Party website to my post because they are always being left out.

And now Rob, you can't be calling the NDP tree-hugging hippies. They're really a bunch of people that were born with silver spoons in their mouth who think they are helping the "blue-collar" Canadian but they have no clue what they want. That's why they don't get elected. ;)

Anyway, I have be come a Green supporter. I will like their ideas on health care. Work more towards preventitive medicine. I love universal healthcare (being a diabetic it's important to me) but far to many people abuse the system. I agree we need to stop the system abuse and work towards preventitive measures. Hopefully people will stop running to the doctor as soon as they have a sniffle.

Anyway, has anyone gone to an all candidates meeting yet? There was one for my riding but I had to miss it. I'm hoping there will be another in my riding before the election. Anyone know where I can find out?

There was one for my riding last night but I was unable to make it. I've been to other all-candidate's meetings before, though they were from before I was old enough to vote. I had to go to them as part of a class assignment (once in Grade 9 history for the '93 election and again in '97 for OAC law). As for Lady Pi Phi's comment on the NDP, yeah, that's true, especially if you look at its leader as well as Toronto's mayo (Mr. Miller may claim that he came from slightly modest means, but his mom also sent him to Lakefield College School)

I know there has been a bit of talk suggesting that we change the electoral system here in Canada. I know I wouldn't mind seeing some changes.

One thing that does bother me is that we do not directly vote for our PM. In my short life times all our PM's having been French-Canadian or their ridings are in Quebec (Brian Mulroney, Jean Chretian, and Mow Paul Martin). My personal feelings on having a French-Canadian PM is that they spend far too much time worrying about the Sepratists and not enough about the rest of the country.
Yes, there have been a few non-French-Canadian PMs, but they haven't lasted very long in office (ie. Joe Clark, Kim Campbell).
My idea was that we still have ridings and we still elect a representative for that riding. Then the party with the most seats would be come the ruling party and then the ruling party would select a few representitives from that part and the the Whole of Canada would elect from the group the person to be Prime Minister.
So it wouldn't be the leader of the party that automatically became PM (provided he won his seat) it would be some chosen by the people.
Does that make sense?

What do you think? Any ideas of your own?

The only problem with that system is that it takes too long, and that some people would be upset because they aren't the ones who select the finalists to run for PM.

True. But those same people would be upset no matter what because with the system now, they might not have been elected to be leader of the party.

Another question.

I was reading one of the sites that RACooper posedt and it listen the number of seats that each party held and said there were 3 vacant seats.

How can you have vacant seats.

They've added a few new ridings since the last election, and these ridings don't have MPs

Don't forget John Turner !!

Ooops! That's right.

I just wanted to thank y'all for this thread. I'm finding it hard to keep up with the election talk here, but you're helping me to become more informed. I'll be able to vote by this time next year (I'll be a citizen then - YAY!), and you've all been a great help.

Vote Green!

(Can you tell who I am voting for? ;) )

Anyway, did anyone see the Metro this morning. I did't get a chance to read the article but the cover said the the Conservatives wre now in the lead.
Do you think they will stay in the lead. Do you think they will win the election? Or do you think this is a minor setback for the Liberals, but in the end they will win this election?

I think we'll see after the debates. However, they say that usually, whoever leads before the debates will continue to do so after. But then again, the Conservative lead isn't that far from the Liberals, so I wouldn't know. We're likely going to get a minority either way though.

I don't know.... the Green candidate from my riding looked like he uses to much green :)

Okay is anyone else getting annoyed with Harper and his constant references to how we should be more like the US? I mean politics, taxes, foreign policy and such..... hmmm could it be that he had politcal ties (and perhaps financial ties as well) to a organization that advocated that we at the very least adopt the US currency if not join with the US? No... that's just the paranoid cynic in me :rolleyes:

Oh well... hopefully he'll slip his handlers at the debate and go off on a rant praising G.W. Bush again.. that'll make the PCs slip in the polls.

I've herd that the conservative party wanted to buy an aircraft carrier. Why do you guys need an aircraft carrier?

Maybe we're getting a little too "open" and "liberal"? I swear that if Canada leans any more left, I'm going to pack off and move...ok, maybe not...but we do need to streamline our views a bit. Too many left winged people are having a say and people who are more traditional are seen as prejudiced. Isn't that sad?

That's one of the defense spending options expressed by the Conservatives.... as well as tanks, fighters, etc. Unfortunately that would not be in keeping with the strategic capabilities or policies of Canada.

I am! Whenever I hear a Canadian say this, I want to shake some sense into him/her. Sometimes I wonder if you guys really appreciate what a wonderful country you have.

You seriously don't think we're too liberal around here?

Steven Harper is the reason the Conservative party has lost my vote this election. They are far too right wing for my liking now. A lot of Harper's platform just doesn't fit with what I feel are Canada's values.

Also I won't vote for NDP - just from personal experience of having to live under a provincial NDP government.

I love the idea of the Green party, but they need to show me how health care, education, etc. all fit into their platform. I hope they get at least one MP elected so they can show us that while the environment is important, they can also deal with Canada's other needs.

Which leaves me with the Liberals. I like the fact for the past 8 or 9 years we have had a surplus and some of that money goes towards the national debt. Imagine what we could do with debt. I would like to see some sort of health care reform - not a two tierd system, just a better organized one.

I for one, however, cannot wait till this election is over. All I've seen so far is mudslining and it's starting to tick me off royaly. Only 2 weeks to go.

The Conservative party doesn't fit multigenerational Canadian values, but if you look at their platform very closely, many of their views actually reflect many newer Canadians, who are a little more on the traditional side of things. I'm now beginning to see why some immigrant parents don't want their kids to become "Canadianized" so quickly.

I've been thinking about this. You know how Harper wants to debate the gay marriage issue in Parliament rather than let the Supreme Court decide? I'm wondering if Martin wants the courts to deal with it (rather than introducing a bill in Parliament) because he's personally against it, being Catholic and all.

ETA: As for the new Tories being socially conservative, yet fiscally non-conservative, I guess if you look at it that way, then yes, they would appeal to newer Canadians. Harper already said that he wants to make it easier for immigrants with good credentials to get jobs that they were trained for in their old country. That is good news for people like my uncle, who went to medical school in Hong Kong. Sure, it's too late for him, but if it all works out, then other new comers won't have to go through some form of training all over again (my uncle didn't have to go through med school again, but training is still training)

Did Martin ever say he's against it? (not an attack... curious) A lot of Catholics are for same-sex marriage - you don't have to agree with everything the Pope says.. that may make them less of a perfect Catholic... but that to each to decide.

I don't think I like the idea of holding a open vote on it. If the law is wrong... it's wrong. It's like holding an open vote on whether or not abortion/birth control should be allowed in the early 1980s. A lot of Canadians were against it... but when push comes to shove it isn't their business... But, let's not get into that topic here (feel free to make a new topic)... just a comparison.

If anything, it would need to be a referendum of all of Canada.... what a headache that would be!

Actually, on that one topic, I do agree - we give preference to skilled workers who wish to migrate to Canada but then take away their ability to work with that trade? Seems ridiculous to me too - it's one of the Conservative views I'm all for. But their economic-unconservativeness doesn't really stem from there as much as their increasing spending; decreasing taxes and not really saying where they'll cut from to make that work!

Martin never said that he was for it, nor did he say that he was against it. He didn't say anything because either answer would make his party lose popularity and votes, whether there was a sponsorship scandal or not. That is PRECISELY the reason why things were looped to the Charter rather than an introduction of a bill. We are indeed socially too liberal, which is why there is such a division between newer Canadians and those of us who have been here for two or more generations. The whole "multiculturalism" issue has caused greater issues and gaps between generations than ever before. Today, it is almost sinful to be Christian while minority religions are celebrated. Catholics are lucky though because they have a separate school system. I feel sorry for non-Catholic Christians in public schools who are almost forced to hide their faith.

Absolutely NOT. Despite the current political realities in my home country, there are quite a few of us who aren't monster raving loony right wingers. I'm not as leftie as some of my American friends -- heck, sometimes I my views feel almost conservative compared to most of the Canadians I know, but I have to tell you -- living here feels like PARADISE compared to where I came from.

Is there really such a division - many newer Canadians I know are social liberal... (perhaps a birds of a feather flock together effect) - especially those from Europe or South America...

I disagree with your last statement about being Christian in society ... where I have been Christianity flourishs. As for the Catholic school thing... I'll start a new topic on that.

From what I understand -- and forgive me for making sweeping generalizations -- but many new immigrants from South and Southeast Asia are socially and fiscally conservative. MisterMadly says that accounts for the large number of Asians/Indians in the Liberal and Conservative parties in BC.

They called my house too - but when then said the riding I was sure they said Delta-Ladner, so I asked the guy, which riding are you calling about and he confirmed what I thought he said - so I told him that I live in the South Vancouver riding - he was a bit embarrassed and confused - but I would of told him that I wasn't voting conservative anyways, not until they bring Joe Clark back. :p.

I live near an NDP riding, and trust me, it isn't very nice over there. Olivia is a candidate over there. In any case, I'm an old fashioned gal, likely influenced by my immigrant parents. They're pretty much die-hard (social) Conservatives, and are happy with the merger. :D I don't think I live in "paradise" other than the fact that I'm close to a good shopping area. My riding isn't as left as Trinity-Spadina, but it's getting close, especially with the new division lines.

I get e-mails from the Conservative party, because someone at Telus had this e-mail address before I did and signed up for a bunch of junk. It makes my inbox feel all...dirty.

Yes, that's actually quite true. Olivia Chow running as an NDP is actually kind of unusual for someone who is Chinese. Most Chinese Canadians tend to vote Liberal or Conservative. There is an Asian guy, Something (forgot his first name) Li running as a Tory in a riding in a Toronto suburb.

I'm an immigrant too, Taualumna. Granted I didn't come from Asia, India, or the Caribbean, but I'm still an immigrant.

When I said paradise, I wasn't talking about in terms of financial realities. MisterMadly and I are struggling -- we're still paying the bills from my relocation almost four years ago, and I just finished getting a Master's degree, mainly because I knew that it would be easier for me to find work here if I had a degree from a Canadian university.

Where it feels like paradise to me is in terms of human rights and individual freedoms. In the United States, we talk a brave game about multiculturalism and the American Melting Pot, but it's all just a myth. People are more segregated than ever, even though that segregation isn't legally sanctioned anymore. It doesn't matter if you became a citizen last week or if you are a fifth generation American -- in some parts of the United States, if you're not white, you're not considered a "real" American. I don't get that feeling living here. I don't get the sense that I have to conform to some mythical Canadian "ideal" in order to be considered Canadian; as a matter of fact, I appreciate that there isn't some sort of myth that looms large in the Canadian imagination that by its very nature keeps certain people on the outside.

I love that I can walk through my neighborhood and see people who don't look like me, who don't sound like me, and who may not even think like me, but who all get along peacefully and respect each others' differences. I love that my ultra-religious mother-in-law supports my religious beliefs (or lack thereof), and doesn't feel a need to try to "save my soul from burning in Hell" -- complete STRANGERS would do that where I came from, and it always felt invasive and wrong.

To this new Canadian, this country has given me more opportunity, more freedom, and a greater sense of possibility than I ever thought possible while living in the United States. It might sound like hooey, but I love Canada. I love Canadian openness, and I love Canadian tolerance. I love the multitudinous ways that people show their Canadianness here, and I love that there's no one "right" way to be Canadian. You have a goldmine here, and this country truly is, in my opinion, the moral centre of Western society.

Ya'll have a beautiful thing here -- treasure it always.

If you think Canada isn't segregated then you're kind of wrong, Sistermadly. If we were truely mixed, then there wouldn't be neighbourhoods like Richmond, BC, where the population is overwhelmingly Chinese! The neighbourhoods I grew up in (I moved a few times as a kid and a teen) were mostly predominantly Jewish--out of the 20 kids in my kindergarten class, 16 were Jews! Twenty years later, the neighbourhood is still predominantly Jewish) In schools, you wouldn't have little cliques made up of kids from the same ethnic groups and certainly GLOs and other organizations would actually reflect the campus rather than being mostly white.

I know about Richmond, and I know about Surrey, and I know about the British Properties. The thing is - my (white) husband and I (I'm African-American) could move to Richmond, or Surrey, or the British Properties without worrying that people would start moving out because we "posed a threat to their property values." That happened where I'm from. A lot. It even happens in reverse where I came from -- young professional white couples would move into traditionally black neighborhoods and start gentrifying them, and the older black residents would complain that the white folks were making it too expensive for them to live there anymore.

It's hard for you to understand because (I presume) you didn't grow up in the United States, in the deep south, where social realities still keep the races rigidly segregated. I mean -- where else but in the deep south would it make front-page news in a newspaper that a black woman joined an NPC sorority?

I'll end the hijack here and return you guys to your regularly scheduled thread, but I'm willing to continue this discussion via PM if you want. :cool:

Yeah, what she said. Now I'm off to watch Six Feet Under. ;)

Well, if Toronto isn't segregated, then why do immigrants tend to live in neighbourhoods that reflect THEIR cultural heritage rather than in diverse neighbourhoods? Some stay in these neighbourhoods even if they've been here for a while, case in point, the street where I lived when I was in elementary school. It was 70% Jewish. The rest were Chinese or Indian, mostly Catholic.

ETA: I should add that places that are "diverse" really aren't all that "diverse", meaning that they don't "reflect" the entire city. Usually, areas that are historically Anglo are only "diversified" by the handful of East Asians (usually Chinese) and perhaps Middle Easterners that might be there. But that might just be places that I go to.

I think there's a difference between wanting to be around people with whom you share a culture and the kind of segregation we're talking about.

Like I said before, I can't explain it in a way that would make sense to someone who hasn't lived it, but Richmond feels a lot different than, say, Forsyth County, Georgia.

Also, a lot of these neighborhoods are built around religious institutions, no? I know that there is a neighborhood near Emory University in Georgia that to this day is predominately Jewish, mainly because a lot of Jews in that neighborhood observe the sabbath very seriously, and thus, they can't simply get in their cars and drive to the Synagogue. Businesses that cater to these populations spring up. Families live there generation after generation, not because they have to, nor because they don't feel welcome anywhere else, but because they're accustomed to it. It's tradition.

Maybe these neighborhoods sprung up because they weren't allowed to live anywhere else in Canadian cities. In that respect, it is similar to what happened in American cities from coast to coast. But you're overlooking one thing -- you and your family lived in that neighborhood, and I'm guessing you lived there without incident -- please correct me if I'm wrong.

I know that Canada isn't perfect. But it feels a lot closer to perfect than where I came from.

(Stupid Movie Central and their Mountain time zones. I missed Six Feet Under! :mad: )

Waitaminute....don't larger US cities have cultural enclaves like Toronto? I do remember seeing a Little Italy, as well as historically Jewish neighbourhoods, for example, in New York.