What would Canada do?
 

After flipping through the 'Who would Osama vote for?' thread, I'm compelled to ask:

What would Canada do if someone had crashed civilian airplanes into...something Canadian? (sorry, don't know much about Canada!)

I'm really curious of your opinion RACooper, especially because you've done such a job of commenting on how wrong and stupid America is for sending troops, etc. You've made several comments about how Canada this, and Canada that. I'm just really curious what you think your government would do. What if it had been you instead of us? What if it happened now after everything has happened?

Additionally, this is not meant to be mean, bitchy, or whatever, I just really would like to know!

aj

Oh lets see...

Well lets look at what Canada did on/following 9/11 shall we?

*Okay immediately shut-down all flights like the FAA? check

*Accept flights turned back from US and house passengers? check

*Have police guard both mosques and US consulates/embassies? check

*Support the US action in Afghanistan? check

*Support UN resolution to involve international troops in Afghanistan? check

*Commit forces to help rebuild Afghanistan/Hunt down remaining Taliban and Osama? check

Where Canada disagreed with the US was what happened next - the whole Iraq thing. Our own intelligence saw no link between Al Queda and Saddam (quite the opposite in fact), and the power-point presentation that the ambassador gave wasn't convincing either.

As for my comments in the Who would Osama vote for thread: Everything started out okay with massive amounts of material, men, and money being thrown at the goal of eliminating Osama, Al Queda and it's supporters. But then this Iraq thing drew away men, material, and money (Bush cut funding) as well as stirring up even more distrust and hatred of the US and west in the region. Now the Taliban is making inroads again in Afghanistan. In effect I see that while Bush did serious damage to Al Queda in the beginnning, his Iraq campaign has only done good for terrorists lately. Finally I fully believe the maxim "Better the Devil you know" - The Bush Administration is understood; Kerry's is an unknown (could be more effective or not), so if I was an enemy I would want Bush to be in power because he is a known element......

I think what ajuhdg wanted to know is what Canada would have done if someone had hijaked planes and crashed them into the CN Tower or the Parliament buildings in Ottawa; not how it reacted after the US was attacked on 9/11.

Thank you, KR, that IS what I meant!

aj

They would REACT to the best of their ability and resources. Just the same as we did. And so would anyone else.

Look I tried to make a comment... but it is difficult to respond in the hypothetical... however if I was to draw on examples from the past I would say the reaction would have been similar to the US reaction by going after Osama in Afghanistan. What I commented on about it was "wrong" to send troops to was IRAQ... Iraq and Afghanistan, Saddam and Osama are two completely seperate countries and people that had nothing to do with each other....

As for what if it would happen now... well unfortunately we will probibly see, after all Canada was specifically threaten by Osama and Al Queda in the last release because of our troops in Afghanistan.

Yes Canada has suffered from terrorism before (and one case is still in the courts): War of 1812, Fenian Raids, Orange Men Bombing, Free Ireland Bombings, FLQ, Air India.. some would also argue Oka. In all but the FLQ case it was outside forces taking their domestic greivances out on Canadians... in each case the rule of law was followed and we didn't use them as excuses to settle old scores.

Dude, as someone who actually heard the blast (as I was attending HS just a few miles away from the Murrah building), I will tell you that any incident's connection with Canada is coincidental *at best*.

Oka Quebec.... summer of 1990....

I think Bush has done tons to combat terrorism, as proved that we have had no major terrorist attacts on U.S. soil since 9-11. Everyone's quick to nag about Bush not doing enough about terrorism, and then when he does do something about it, the same people that nag that he doesn't do enough don't support him on it.

FOR INSTANCE: John Kerry voting to send troops in Iraq and then voting against the $87 billion to support the troops.

Oh wait, he actually voted for the money before he voted against it. Just another example of Kerry trying to pander to both sides and have it both ways.

And RACooper, I'm not a history buff, so please explain how the war of 1812 was terrorism against Canada.

Ah.. never mind :D

The US declared war on the UK obsentively over the seizure of US seamen by British naval vessels during the Napoleonic War. Since an attack on the UK wasn't feasible the US attacked Upper and Lower Canada (present day Quebec and Ontario)... it was during these "attacks" that the burning of civilian population centre's was commited by US Militia units (not NY though, they refused to cross the border), as the people were labeled "traitors" because many were Loyalists that fled the US during the War for Indepence or shortly after; further natives were slaughtered out of hand: men, women, children... British and Canadian units retaliated at the end of the war by burning Washington and the White House.

The whole premise of this thread is invalid because it presupposes that Canada is a real nation.

I think many of you are being terribly rude to not only RACooper but also many of the other Canadians on this board. Why is it perfectly ok for us to be proud of our country, but not for them to be proud of theirs? These people are our Greek brothers and sisters and you are doing anything but showing the love. Healthy debate and agreeing to disagree is fine. Ridiculing their country is not.

I think the point RA was making is that Canada would have done essentially the same thing we did, short of going into Iraq. I am hoping that nothing like 9/11 happens ever again anywhere.

Well said, swissmiss!

"The FB-111A (a now-retired fighter-bomber) would have made an excellent aircraft... if we ever went to war against Canada!"

Seriously, folks, no need to sh*t on our neighbors to the north and to the south. We're not the only badasses on the block.

A really unnecessary comment. Canada is a great nation and has been our good friend and allied with us in about everything but Iraq.

You might remember that more than a few of us didn't agree with that little adventure either. Nor did many of our NATO and other friends.

If you ever visit NORAD, the North American Aerospace Defense Command, you will realize that Canada and the US are partners in defending our continent.

Besides, comments like that are rude -- I can't think of a better word.

What Americans do not also know is that Canada and the US have a bilateral defence committe working IN the US on defence of North America. Canada also SUPPORTED AND IS STILL IN AFGHANISTAN..yes we are STILL THERE with the Us to combat terrorism because we are also against terrorism but do not support Iraq.

We have done many of the same steps such as the US in combatting terrorism..department of homeland defecne we have the Office of Emergency Prepardness and Public Health and Saftey (think i got that right) we have boosted our border security-SAFE BORDERS ACT signed by both the US and Canada among other things..and I have heard from the director of the CIA (defence class) commend our co-operation with the United States. I am not bashing our neighbours to the south but you are not the only one combatting terrorism and your media prehapes fails to pick up on the many bilateral agreements/and steps that Canada AND the US have taken..we are there with you as well you just dont hear about us

Well RACooper would sit there talking about how his 2nd rate military service where he wasn't even an officer qualifies him to be an armchair military expert, sound really dumb, yada, yada, etc.

-Rudey

Hey Rudey I'll give you another hint why I didn't go officer (other than the fact NCO have more fun).... it has to do with what my trade was; no officers allowed. As for qualifying as an armchair military expert... well I guess I am one now... but if Canada is so second rate why did the Marines select our LAV designs? rifle upgrades? uniform design (well runner up?), GPMG? I'd be interested to hear the opinion of such an estemed desktop general....

A) You weren't an officer because you didn't have a college eduation. Don't try and explain it any other way.

B) Actually the funny thing is that most people can come up with their own thoughts and not rely on some "expert". The funnier thing is that you are no expert. You served in the Canadian military and were not an officer and claim that this experience makes you understand psychology, forensics, politics, etc. I never claimed that service. I have no military experience. I do however read a lot and think quite a bit.

C) It's funny how I don't agree with tokencanuck, but I also respect him and his opinion. Now go ice skate back into the military grunt.

-Rudey

The unvarnished truth of the matter is that, in many ways, the professional NCO's keep the Armed Forces running.

Young officers (First and Secont Leiutenants) are pretty much like entry level managers -- they have a lot to learn. If they're smart, they take the advice of the NCO's who have been there and done that.

It's a little like the manager who has a great Administrative Assistant. The manager may make the big decisions, but the day to day operations are run by the AA (secretary).

A lot of the top NCO's are pretty damned impressive folks.

If you work somewhere that the secretary runs things for you, then don't be too upset when your job is being done by a man out of India.

-Rudey

Rudey,

Join the Army. Then you can be an expert, too.

Thankfully, I'm finished with it.

(Maybe you can fix this Halliburton mess)

What are you talking about?

You said secretaries often do most of the work for managers and I said those people can be easily replaced. Then you tell me to join the army? 1 + 1 = 3?

As for me joining the army: I'd join but I have a feeling you and your anti-war friends would spit on me when I got back. I'm only not joining because of you. I hope you're happy.

-Rudey

Nope I didn't have a college education, but when you are offered a commission you are offered a college (well university) education... but I felt that I wanted to get a civilian education, and not be commited to a another 5 years to the military.

Yes I served in the Canadian Military along with taskings on American and British posts... so I came to know quite about how each army operates. Further I'll list my training for you:
Qualification Level 2 (Basic)
Qualification Level 3 Armoured (Trade)
Qualification Level 4 Armoured (Gunner)
Qualification Level 4 Armoured (Recce)
Qualification Level 2 (Basic - again)
Qualification Level 3 Infantry (Trade)
Qualification Level 4 Infantry (Communications)
*Qualification Level 4 Infantry (Recce)
*Advanced Trades Training - Sniper 1 (Pre-Course)
**Advanced Trades Training - Psychological Warfare Phase 1
Advanced Trades Training - Brigade Command Support
**Enemy Force Operations - Rangers ('95, '96) (this was actually a lot of fun)
Ceremonial Guard ('94-'96)
UN Deployment - Former Yugoslavia ('94)

and for your edification course that I dropped out of:
*Airborne Operations (found out I don't like heights) which is why I never progressed further as a sniper.

>>>please note that a number of courses have changed over the years, and of course some are equivelancy designations (for training given by foreign military) any maked with * are non-Canadian courses (UK) or ** (US). If any of the military folks on the board care to chat fire me a PM and I'll relate more details.

So Skippy this is why I can claim some experience with military matters.... my backgorund and training gives me that right; just as your knowledge of economics makes you an authority in that field. All of this aside you claim that your knowledge gleaned from reading gives you the right to express your ramblings, well why doesn't it give others the same consideration.

Quite frankly I don't care who you respect Skippy... and I have to say I don't want your respect at all, because really it'd be worthless...

Don't beg the question, Rudey. You've been taking cheap shots at RJ Cooper about the military and being an NCO instead of an officer.

Just walk away from this one because you don't know what you're talking about.

As for being "anti-war," I admit to being "anti" this particular war. Maybe my personal military experience is why.

And, if you don't join because of me, maybe I've just saved your life. Be happy.

Beg the question? Actually, you can't seem to follow an argument. If you have your secretary doing your work, perhaps you're a bit sensitive. If you want to outright come and say something, do it...don't do a dance. I have friends who were in the military and against the war. I respect that. However if my friends started to go mountain climbing, dancing, glass welding, etc. and constantly claimed it was their military experience that qualifies them, they'd open themselves up to comments.

And please please buddy stop talking as if you're such a nice person. When I came onto GC you insulted my school. When I spoke about what I knew you insulted my experiences. I didn't knock anyone's experience but I did knock using an experience as qualifications for everything.

I will join the military if it needs me. Contrary to what you see, I see service to my country not just dying on the battlefield. But I would not shy away from my military duties if I was needed.

-Rudey
--And I'm still waiting on you to make that comparison to Vietnam.

Again, you were not an officer. And I did not say you should want my respect.

As for my Economics background. Well I have a science background (lengthier than my economics) as well as a public policy background. But I only use that to talk about the issue at hand. I don't use my economics background to talk about someone getting beheaded.

-Rudey

You got the wrong guy, pal. I didn't insult your school. You did, however, accuse me of beating my family.

I'm done with you.

You are right. I looked and it wasn't you. It was Conard who called people from my school 4 eyed cretins. I'm sorry for thinking it was you. As for you beating your family, it was an outrageous remark that was a joke. Nobody took it seriously. In fact I sent you a PM with an apology because whether or not I thought it was funny, evidently it hurt you. I could have been a prick and ran with it and it would have hurt you more and nothing would have happened to me, but I didn't.

And stop acting like you just dumped me with your little I'm done with you. It seems like you just want to argue with me and I don't know why. You're in love with me and I don't like it.

-Rudey

I have one comment-1) I am actualy a female....Xi Delta Theta Sorority at Carleton University in Ottawa.

and second..uh unless you are refering to other posts..how can you DISAGREE with my post on this subject when i was stating actual FACTS??? I was backing up the bilateral agreements between Canada and the United States and the fact that maybe the American media does not publish these facts as much as Canadian media..

So what are you disagreeing WITH? The fact that these agreements never occured??

Just curious

What? Actually other stuff in the past that you've said.

-Rudey

Okay I thought you were disagreeing with my post on this subject..just wanted a clarification.

Thank you