Extension criteria....
 

Maybe we oughta cut each other some slack, in all fairness...
Like...the old Union Triad has maintained a radically different
attitude towards expanison say, than, Delta Sigma Phi. In some
cases they have died rather than change, others have gone to
the co-ed route, much water over the bridge in post-secondary
education...hardly an elite thing these days...
And the less-selective, like TKE..have gone into the (heavens!)
teachers' colleges and extension and streetcar schools...
And even further, some former professional ones, like the boy
scout Alpha Phi Omega, have entered the social realm.
So, it is like comparing apples and oranges in many cases, and
in most, each is correct in their own way of thinkin'
Comments on this? We have come a long way, like I said a bit
ago, since Mark Hopkins and the Log...if some of you have ever
read educational history and can use this analogy.
The rank-and-file greek of today would hardly fit with the Beta
at old Indiana Asbury (now DePauw).
Please take no offense at this, it is simply that we all have grown
quite far apart, and we each love our own club....but we try to
hang in there together in a hostile world where many are not friendly towards us...ignorance, I say, but nonetheless there.

There is no way that I'm going to discuss extension criteria about host institution selection in a public forum, and I doubt that anyone else, who is currently involved in extension, will either.

Re: Extension criteria....
 

That's news to me. Thanks for the information!

:rolleyes: <---- the eyeroll of sarcasm

Sphincter say what?

Phi Psi extension....
 

There is nothing magic about extension. I have been on the TKE extension committee since I was an undergraduate in 1956, and
have run surveys, projections, etc.
No need to be so secretive, we are all in the same game...if you will permit that description.
HOWEVER, this is not an edict or a command performance.
I have had a lot of experience in extension and started 17 chapters (or affiliated locals) in my time and have helped a good many other outfits with seminars and even referrals. But, to each
his own...your prerogative.
But you are dead wrong about others unwilling to discuss the topic of extension...we do it all the time.
In fact, we are working in conjunction with two nationals right now about returning to campi where we have dormant chapters.

Re: Phi Psi extension....
 

How many of those 17 are still active?
You might want to work on your reading comprehension. I said that I wouldn't discuss this on a public forum. I'm well aware of how my fraternity cooperates with other fraternities for extension. It is done between staff members, and the communication is typically either by a phone call, or a private e-mail.

public forum
 

well, fellow greek, we shan't call upon you for clues as to where
to go...you have already told us that.

Re: Re: Extension criteria....
 

Thanks, I was thinking the exact same thing.

If an Alpha Phi Omega chapter is participating in NIC or NPC formal rush, or has a house with its letters on it, or is selectively choosing who can pursue membership contrary to our principles, please let me know where so I can call their butts out, because that kind of activity is NOT sanctioned or condoned by the national fraternity.

APO
 

l had gottten, obviously, the impression that Alpha Phi Omega was in the midst, at least on some campuses, of operating as a
social organization. I must have been wrong.
I do have a friend who was a proud member of APO at Luther College in Iowa; it was not co-ed then, and he told me they had
tried to operate as a social beings that Luther would not allow a
national group...like NIC or NPC...to form on their campus. Bob
told me a few years ago that the group had almost died but was
revived, as a co-ed. I guess I had filled in the rest. So, sorry if
I erred. Alpha Phi Omega had chapters at both KU and Emporia.
Several guys in our house, so-called shingle collectors, joined it
but to my knowledge did not much more than go to a meeting or
so, and I do not recall it being on the forefront of much, though it
was highly identified with the scouting movement. I was a very
active scout in my youth. But I did not have the money to spend
for the APO membership, tho did know of its existence. Times have changed, so I must admit now...I have no idea how A P O
fits in the total scheme of things. Sorry if I misjudged it all. I am
not sure how the sarcasm fits in, as I meant none myself.

EC, as A Poud Member of APO, no, it is not going to turn into a Social Greek Organization as We Know of It.
I dont want to go into about Professional, Social, or Other Greek Organizations such as SAP.

There is a significant difference between Greek Organizatins as we know them.

It may become time when everyone figures that out.

There is a difference. Greek Socials will try to buy Houses if they can. Do certain things just as All Others try to do.

Such other Greek Organizations try to do other things.

It is not bad by any streatch of the imagination.

Greek Organizations can be compatiable, but not the same.

Actually Erik, I was being dead serious about reporting an APO chapter that is operating in an overly social manner to the national organization. I know that there are groups who try to "use" it that way to get around college prohibitions of one type or another and it irks me no end. That's not why APO was created or why it continues to exist.

I know the APO chapter at my school is VERY strict on its definition of social events and will not attend anything that is social.

What's wrong with teachers' college?

?
 

Must raise the same ire with EC that commuter schools do.

I don't see what the big deal is about with commuter campuses.

I actually go to a commuter campus, and while our campus may not be anything like A&M or UT or UGA, our campus is still great and offers a lot to students.

On a commuter campus you can choose to do nothing but go to school and work, or you can get involved - join the SGA, or a greek organization, or a club for your major, but those are the same choices that "non- commuter" school students make as well.

The Greek Life on my campus isn't overly HUGE with all 26 NPC groups and all the IFCs that exist, but it isn't small either. It's big enough to where people know about it and many people want to be a part of it. (which is completely different from the first school I attended which also happened to be a historical "commuter college" that had a teeny tiny greek system that most students didn't know about at the time)

College and your Greek experience is what you make of it. It doesn't matter what campus you are on. ;)

Gee, I missed the teachers' college slam because I was too busy clearing up the APO misconception. :rolleyes:

I guess the organizations that were founded at teachers' colleges should just roll up and die. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: But in all seriousness, there is no such thing as a teachers' college anymore. All the schools that used to be TCs are now state colleges or universities.

TKE is at lots of former teachers' colleges. Intriguing, intriguing, especially since these chapters all chartered right around when Mr. Conard was travelling.

teachers' colleges..
 

Are some of you brain-dead or what? The "slam" made about
"teachers' colleges" was in jest. I just wrote a complimentary article on Sigma Tau Gamma...founded at a TC.
The last college in America to bear the name State Teachers College was in Emporia, Kansas...The Kansas State Teachers
College of Emporia.
I received a Bachelor of Science in Education from there, 1960
Get real!

Perhaps you need to employ the following:

[sarcasm] Insert insult about school or GLO here[/sarcasm]

as things are evidently not coming across the way you mean to say them.

But I really don't think that's the case, as you used the term "less-selective" (and not in quotes) to refer to TKE and their colonizing at teachers' colleges. That sounded like a slam to me.

I think that you are the one who needs to "get real" and rethink some of the things you say.

Can you remove the quote from your signature?

-Rudey
--Thanks

NOT TILL YOU TELL ME WHY RUDITH!! :D

Some of y'all amaze me. He wasn't making a dig at anyone really. He was simply stating the fact that TKE, STG, and other groups have different colonization criteria than other NIC groups. What's wrong with that? I think we are assigning our own negative connotations to the word "selective" and interpreting his meaning to have been a slap in our faces.

Next time, why not be sure of someone's meaning before you respond in such an aggressive way.

This isn't aimed at any particular person. This is just a general observation on how people have been responding to Mr. Conard's posts.

For the record though, STG's practices of colonizing at smaller schools has actually yielded them some very positive results. They have a great chapter at the University of Central Oklahoma (a former teacher's college).

33 girl...probably right
 

33 girl...I have not used the cutesy faces, sarcasm especially.
I am shocked that some of you could not see through my TC
comments...me being a Teke and a former fielder and all.
And, Rudey, get back in traction (sarcasm)
TKE pioneered the NIC ones into the teachers' colleges in '41
with Ft Hays...and took a lot of heat for the next twenty years
even from some of the outfits you-all belong to.
I went on the road in '57 and back to school for a 1960 degree from...get this...Kansas State Teachers College of Emporia, KS
now known as Emporia State University.
And, swifties, do some diggin' and find out who either colonized
or affiliated a local at:
California State Teachers--PA
Slippery Rock State--PA
Lock Haven State--PA
Clarion State--PA
Southern Oregon
and assisted TKE in entering
Shippensburg State--PA
Edinboro State--PA
Portland State--OR
Chico State--CA
This does not take in account that I was on the faculty of a TC,
and chapter adviser to a TC fraternity...forsooth!
But the point is good...sublety is not in here....duh
Teachers' colleges...whatever name...streetcar or commuter schools...some are good, some not so good. I guess my education at one enabled me to go on to further degrees.
There are lots of Sig Taus who became college presidents, by
the way...and most of them came through the teachers' colleges.
Naw, I meant no slam to anyone--perhaps to the dullards who
cannot comprehend plain English....duh

Evans Scholars
 

Evans Scholars - golf scholarship bunch - was in the IFC at U Ill, and a few other places.

Are they still around?

Re: Evans Scholars
 

I've heard of this. I had a friend who won some sort of scholarship to Northwestern after being a Caddy and said he was in something that was a fraternity for them. We all thought it was the strangest thing ever so we just nodded and moved on.

-Rudey

This site is where one lives and learns.:)

I try to live and learn everyday. Thank goodness for people like E C! You may not like the way he types or at time thinks with his typing, but He has Knowldege!:cool:

Just give it a chance, He still amazes me and I have known him 40 + years.

But while trying to find Him, He found me On G C!:cool:

I support standards for chartering schoolsbut I would not define /except schools based upon being a teachers college, commuter school etc. Academic quality and interest in Greek Life are more important indicators of a good location for expansion.
For example, I want to see DU go to Ball State, Indiana State , Illinois State , all former Teachers Colleges I do not want DU to go to New Mexico Highlands, a former teachers college as their is no Greek Life at the school or City College of New York due to a policy of open admissions.
DU has been more selective than most in expansion , but loosened up in the late 1960's in 1967 DU had 12 inactive chapters we now have around 60, maybe a casualty of going to less selective schools?
Phis Psi Russ, I don't think Greeks will scam other Greeks by talking abount expansion priorities most oppurtunities are well known.

Re: Evans Scholars
 

Yes, they have a sizeable chapter here of North Shore kids. They're coed now so I doubt they'd be in the IFC anywhere.

Re: 33 girl...probably right
 

Erik, calling people "dullards" really doesn't do anything to endear you or get your point across.

If I took your comments wrong, I'm sorry, but that should tell you that there may be something faulty in your methods of expression. I'm aware that some fraternities have chosen to only go to Ivy League schools, some only to Big 10 universities, etc....that discussion would have been fine, but even so, I'm sure some of your brothers would not like hearing their fraternity referred to as "less-selective." I know the Clarion TKEs would be pissed off. Call it a different expansion philosophy instead.

Heaven knows I'm not an overly politically correct person, but when I feel as if my sorority, my fraternity, AND my alma mater have been insulted in the space of one post, I'm going to get a little defensive.

33 girl....you missed it again
 

I did not insult Clarion, and in being "less selective" I was referring to TKE versus some others who've made their position
plain. I visited Clarion, I believe, in Oct 1958 and believe me, the
school was eons behind many others in so-called procedures of
the time...but it was ME who recommended TKE go there, and the
many other places I previously mentioned....as to dullards, you have to be one of them, as I clearly stated my lack of bias towards teachers college chapters in my earlier posts...is that too
hard for you to grasp? (not sarcasm, but scolding)
The opening meeting of the student council at Slippery Rock was
comprised of New Testament bible reading (in a public college) and it harkened back to dimly lit societies of the 1880s. I would,
even though an alumnus of Kansas State Teachers College, be
less than candid if I stated this was higher education at its best.
The provinciality of the PA TC's of the 50s would even embarrass
them today...fortunately, us national greeks did bring some things
positive to these normal schools...(sarcasm). Even us rustics from
Kansas were cosiderably more into the twentieth century, but, then what do we know? We had flocks of easterners to came to
our campuses, bringing white bucks and shoplifting with 'em. They were not admitted to their own colleges, and had to settle
for a second-rate place like MY teachers' college...(sarcasm)
TKE, Sig Ep, Delta Sig, several others, have long been criticized by
old line outfits for being less-than-selective. Now Beta, SAE, Sig,
Kappa Sig, Phi Delt...all going on these old TCs...and some doing
quite well, but some are discovering the Sig Taus and Tri Sigmas
are indeed a force to reckon with in their own turf...can you get
that, or it that too cryptic (not sarcasm, but scolding)?
Actually, 33 girl, if you would try to be somewhat agreeable and
try to join us instead of constantly carping about our posts, it'd
be a more-fun site. I am sure you have some good points to share with us. Why don't you, and get the hell away from bein'
an old sow? (not sarcasm, just scolding). But I will say this, I do
admire you for standing your ground, however shakey it may be.
(not sarcasm, just a modicum of praise) Finally, it was fielders who were encouraged by men like Heller who opened the doors
of these teachers' colleges, streetcar colleges, commuter schools
and the like...and forty years later we are roasted for the very
effort we put forth...and with pride...get that? Shall we move on?

MR. Conard, do you often call women you don't know old sows in person, or is this a newfound internet trait of yours? (not sarcasm, just scolding)

Erik, in the immortal words of the Gipper, there you go again. I happen to KNOW some of the sisters of the local (Beta Chi Upsilon, 1959-1967) who became my ASA chapter, and I really don't appreciate you saying some of the things you just said about Clarion students of that day and age. And just for the record, TKE didn't come there till 1967....I wouldn't be surprised if the school was waiting till there were more agreeable persons involved with the expansion team.

I would be offended by you calling me an old sow, if it weren't so laughable coming out of your mouth. I said I was sorry if I had misinterpreted you, allowed this would have been a good discussion if perhaps phrased differently, and you respond by not only insulting my school, you insult the whole frigging eastern seaboard. You should have stopped after one line, instead of digging a hole that is impossible to crawl out of.

Oh, and WTF is with the "join us?" Please tell me you are not participating in cloning experiments.

Just keep my school's, my sorority's, my fraternity's, and MY name out of your posts, and we'll get along fine.

33 girl
 

forgotten but not gone

CCNY no longer has open admissions.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/col...dmiss_2688.php

Why don't you contact your HQ, and ask them to write, in detail, your extension criteria so that you can post it on GC. Not the generic stuff from a brochure, but what really is discussed behind closed doors.

You won't get that level of information because it involves too much internal politics.

Heh, look at several of our now defunct Cali chapters...

Phi Psi Russ:

1.CCNY still accepts GED's without SAT scores still very close to open admission,but your correct not a completely open system, but the basic thrust of my point is very valid, the two best indicators of sucsess in greek expansion are : academic quality and retention of student body and current interest in Greek System.
2.DU posted a list of prospective colonies on its website and has published articles on expansion criteria as well. You are right, at least to some extent that specific policies on expansion are not commonly posted, but the specific policies generally implement and refine the general policies.I think Greeks are less secretive than they used to be and it varies from organization to organization.

Not anymore. That changed 4 years ago. The pendulum is swinging back in the other direction.:)