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Honeykiss1974 05-21-2004 10:30 AM

Did Bill Cosby mock underclass blacks?
 
On Monday, Bill Cosby was a speaker at an event to honoring the Brown vs BOE anniversary. In his speech, he made remarks regarding low income and underclass black american. Here is an excerpt:

Quote:

"Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal," he declared. "These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids -- $500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.' . . .

"They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English," he exclaimed. "I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' . . . And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. . . . Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. . . . You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"
Full Story of Quote Above Another story


There are some people critizing Bill for these comments as well as his comments regarding blacks that are in prison.

Question:

Do you think Bill is being unfairly critized or was he simply tellign the truth? Or is this a case of people (blacks specifically) being upset because African American person publically criticized "their race"?

What are you thoughts?


ETA:

Oops. Earlier, I quoted the wrong story (Full Story of Quote Above). The correct article about Bill's comments has been posted and is in the middle of the page. :)

AKA2D '91 05-21-2004 10:42 AM

The TRUTH hurts. If the shoe fits...WEAR IT regardless of how much you spent on them. :D

BTW, yes you can become a doctor...etc. speaking that way. You have to know when and where to turn that 'light' on and off. :D :p

I'm not a real Bill Cosby fan. However, I understand what he is saying. Yet, what is he really going on that "level"? He has the millions, yes he donates to colleges, but what about going in the local trenches on the elementary level? Establish programs that will educated the ENTIRE FAMILY if you see something is missing? YOU HAVE THE FUNDS! :D

TonyB06 05-21-2004 10:57 AM

Cosby is on point with this. His rhetoric may be harsh (judgemental?), but personal responsibility affects future outcomes. Nobody down here is coming to help us so we best get busy helping ourselves.

While I'm not wild on generalizing criticism of "our folk" out in public, Cosby has earned that right. He's put millions of his money in colleges/universities to make a difference.

If you can't drop $, put your time/talent in play to eradicate the problem you see. I used to listen a lot more to people complaining about what "we" won't/don't/should/could be doing. Now... after about 2-3 minutes, I politely ask what they are doing. If the answer is (or amounts to) nothing, I ease myself from the conversation.

AXEAM 05-21-2004 11:05 AM

I agree w/ what Cosby said, the truth does hurt but it's time it be told it's like taking strong medicine it doesn't taste well going down but afterwards you do feel better.

ImaDiamond 05-21-2004 11:39 AM

I do agree with Cosby, but only to a ceratin degree. The way it was quoted sounds as if he's speaking of ALL lower class people. There are a good number of 'Lowerclass' people who speak very well. All lowerclass people don't spend their hard earned money on nonsense. I just think that with Cosby making his statement so open to the whole lowerclass category was wrong, but what he said in his statement holds true. Some lowerclass are in the predicament they are because they don't use their money wisely, along with other factors. It could be the way they speak as well, but to be honest, if that was the case in every aspect of this nation, we wouldn't hear anything about Nelly or Juvenile or anyone like that.
I mean, for those who did get upset, maybe they need to evaluate whether they're in that category. Are they spending money they know they don't have, on nonsense? I mean, are they living in a shack with a Benz parked out front? Are their children walking around in those $500.00 sneakers with no money saved for their college education? If so, they need to grill what Cosby said up, eat it, and let it digest a bit.

I don't know. That's my opinion.

Steeltrap 05-21-2004 11:59 AM

I see it as tough love
 
Coming from Mr. Cosby, not mocking. I am with the personal responsibility vibe -- that's how I was raised by my older parents. And these days, there's no great benevolent spirit coming to rescue us.

We need to be more critical of our own, including demanding that we strive for excellence in education, and discipline in the home, and try to teach kids that there's a time and place for certain things, and the educational/work environment is not the place to speak "ebonic" :rolleyes: dialect, among other things.

Maybe it's easy for me to say because I'm not a parent, but I'm going by what type of values I have.

More importantly, the world has changed and the majority society is definitely suffering from compassion fatigue (as you can see in some posts on GC). Moral appeals don't work anymore, particularly if your own isht isn't together.

Honeykiss1974 05-21-2004 12:08 PM

Re: I see it as tough love
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Steeltrap
Coming from Mr. Cosby, not mocking. I am with the personal responsibility vibe -- that's how I was raised by my older parents. And these days, there's no great benevolent spirit coming to rescue us.

We need to be more critical of our own, including demanding that we strive for excellence in education, and discipline in the home, and try to teach kids that there's a time and place for certain things, and the educational/work environment is not the place to speak "ebonic" :rolleyes: dialect, among other things.

Maybe it's easy for me to say because I'm not a parent, but I'm going by what type of values I have.

More importantly, the world has changed and the majority society is definitely suffering from compassion fatigue (as you can see in some posts on GC). Moral appeals don't work anymore, particularly if your own isht isn't together.

I agree ! We are so quick to let our people (i.e entertainers especially) off the hook when it comes to a having a smidgen of accountability, not even realizing that its OUR community that is lacking role models at every turn. Yes, I agree that the first role model in a child's life should be the parent, but what if the parents (which more times will also include their extended family) aren't up to par? We need as may positive role models for our youth (especially black males) as we can get.

djjukebox 05-21-2004 12:08 PM

Bill is.....
 
Telling the truth. If the truth hurts so be it. Now, like Ced the Entertainer in "barbershop 1", I don't think he should say that in front of 'OTHERS' LOL..

Somehow, a lot of our people have DEVALUED education and put an emphasis on MATERIAL things.

CrimsonTide4 05-21-2004 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
I'm not a real Bill Cosby fan. However, I understand what he is saying. Yet, what is he really going on that "level"? He has the millions, yes he donates to colleges, but what about going in the local trenches on the elementary level? Establish programs that will educated the ENTIRE FAMILY if you see something is missing? YOU HAVE THE FUNDS! :D

EXACTLY!!!! Start from the bottom and work your way up. Our babies need it too.

Eclipse 05-21-2004 12:28 PM

I don't read anything in the information on Bill's speech that says "blacks" or anthing about race, period. HE says lowerclass. Now granted, he was probably talking about "us", but everyone I see acting like this does not look like me.

BTW, he is right. I think we who have done well have a responsibility to help others, but you have a responsibility to help yourself too.

Steeltrap 05-21-2004 12:43 PM

Re: Re: I see it as tough love
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
I agree ! We are so quick to let our people (i.e entertainers especially) off the hook when it comes to a having a smidgen of accountability, not even realizing that its OUR community that is lacking role models at every turn. Yes, I agree that the first role model in a child's life should be the parent, but what if the parents (which more times will also include their extended family) aren't up to par? We need as may positive role models for our youth (especially black males) as we can get.
Good point. For instance, there's an AfAm engineer named Mark Dean who was involved in developing computer architecture that allows IBM and compatible PCs to use high-performance software and work with peripheral devices.

Why are fellows like this not that well-known? Perhaps it's our fault -- I'm speaking of the evil media, which I'm a member of.

If I had a son, I'd rather he look up to people like Dr. Dean, the late Reginald Lewis, Stanley O'Neal, Kenneth Chenault, Richard Parsons, Franklin Raines, Dennis Archer, Hugh Price, even Gen. Powell despite who he works for, rather than Fiddy, Lil' Jon and all those lowest-common-denominator cats.

Phasad1913 05-21-2004 01:03 PM

I agree with everything that has been said here. With particular respect to what Bill said about speaking proper English, I would really like to know what can be done about it? No matter how much grammar is taugh in school, when that child goes home and speaks incorrectly around family and friends and all of them speak the same way, much of what was taugh in school gets "un-learned". It's like what I tell people I work with all the time, if you take someone from a foreign country and put them in ESL courses for years, their accent and incorrect speech/grammar patterns aren't really going to fade if as soon as they leave the class they continue to speak in their native tongue or in the ways that they have become comfortable.

Most of us who speak standard English in all settings do so because we have been exposed and in the presence of people with whom standard English speaking is the norm and we became accustomed to speaking properly. Maybe exposure is something that's key and needs to be enhanced among young people. I know that sounds obvious, but perhaps it isn't being done on a wide enough scale. I don't know, I just always like to present some form of a suggestion if I am going to complain.

Steeltrap 05-21-2004 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phasad1913
I agree with everything that has been said here. With particular respect to what Bill said about speaking proper English, I would really like to know what can be done about it? No matter how much grammar is taugh in school, when that child goes home and speaks incorrectly around family and friends and all of them speak the same way, much of what was taugh in school gets "un-learned". It's like what I tell people I work with all the time, if you take someone from a foreign country and put them in ESL courses for years, their accent and incorrect speech/grammar patterns aren't really going to fade if as soon as they leave the class they continue to speak in their native tongue or in the ways that they have become comfortable.

Most of us who speak standard English in all settings do so because we have been exposed and in the presence of people with whom standard English speaking is the norm and we became accustomed to speaking properly. Maybe exposure is something that's key and needs to be enhanced among young people. I know that sounds obvious, but perhaps it isn't being done on a wide enough scale. I don't know, I just always like to present some form of a suggestion if I am going to complain.

Excellent suggestion -- this speaks to some of the things I hope we are all doing with our respective organizations. Kids learn from modeling.

Sistermadly 05-21-2004 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phasad1913

Most of us who speak standard English in all settings do so because we have been exposed and in the presence of people with whom standard English speaking is the norm and we became accustomed to speaking properly. Maybe exposure is something that's key and needs to be enhanced among young people.

HELLO?! You're right - it isn't being done on a wide enough scale, and with re-segregation becoming more widespread, I worry that we won't be able to compete in this increasingly globalized society.

I'm not suggesting that exposure to "the Others" (:D) is the only way to achieve this. There are a great many intelligent and yes -- articulate -- brothers and sisters who could serve as mentors and role models. While the dominant culture may glorify the bling, you still have control over what happens under your roof, and should wield that influence judiciously.

David Foster Wallace is an author and educator who wrote an article in which he said that if students came into his class speaking non-standard English, they were doomed to fail. It didn't matter how bright their intellect, if they didn't know that there is a time and a place for more formal speech, Wallace felt that they didn't have much hope for a successful future. I seem to remember that a lot of black academics and activists were upset about this (mainly because it came from a white man), but when you think about it -- these intellectuals were defending the culture of anti-intellectualism that is so pervasive in our communities! AAUGH!

Okay, I've ranted enough. I don't think Cosby's language or rhetoric was too tough. If it makes people aware, then I'm all for it.

Phasad1913 05-21-2004 01:43 PM

"I'm not suggesting that exposure to "the Others" () is the only way to achieve this. There are a great many intelligent and yes -- articulate -- brothers and sisters who could serve as mentors and role models. While the dominant culture may glorify the bling, you still have control over what happens under your roof, and should wield that influence judiciously. "


I can't figure out how to quote correctly :rolleyes: but...

I was just about to say this!! It isn't that being about non-blacks is the only way to hear or be exposed to standard English, it's more that in a society where, unfortunately, the most important sectors such as corporate America are controlled and most heavily populated by the "other" culture, the young people HAVE to be able to communicate and compete if only to get in the door so things can be shaken up a bit ;)

AKA2D '91 05-21-2004 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eclipse
I don't read anything in the information on Bill's speech that says "blacks" or anthing about race, period. HE says lowerclass. Now granted, he was probably talking about "us", but everyone I see acting like this does not look like me.


Come on now. He's at the Brown v. BoE (Topeka) event...separate, but equal... (50 years later) who was he REALLY talking about? Buffy, Biffy, and Bambi? Arabs? Maybe not, but HE'S TALKING ABOUT BLACK FOLKS....!

:rolleyes: :D :D

Jill1228 05-21-2004 01:59 PM

Co-sign! The truth can be a beeotch at times! I totally agree with Bill Cosby on this one!

Quote:

Originally posted by AXEAM
I agree w/ what Cosby said, the truth does hurt but it's time it be told it's like taking strong medicine it doesn't taste well going down but afterwards you do feel better.

TonyB06 05-21-2004 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
EXACTLY!!!! Start from the bottom and work your way up. Our babies need it too.
I got luv for you, CT4, but I think this criticism is a bit unfair. Hasn't Cosby already donated something like $900 million to colleges, now he's got to support the whole first grade, too?

Never one to tell others how to spend their "cheddar" but if the melanin-enhanced super wealthy (read: NBA, NFL, Ofrah Winbry, and select GC big ballers) want to go in and adopt the Department of Education, I could see that.

AKA2D '91 05-21-2004 02:39 PM

Since I made the initial comment:

Yes, he has donated funds. I cannot tell him where to place his funds, but I can voice the opinion where it would better be served. HE made the comment about Hooked on Phonics, soooooooooo if that is the problem-area (which it is, I can say this as a teacher)... channel your funds THERE! If he would have mentioned locating a job after you get your degree, then I would not have suggested supporting primary grade levels financially. :D

BTW, I would love for him to donate a few duckets to the program where I tutor reading. Maybe, I would not have to donate my funds (public school teachers don't make JACK!) ;) on supplies/materials. :D

ETA: not only Bill, but the other rich AAs. They are not wealthy, they are rich. :D

TonyB06 05-21-2004 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
Since I made the initial comment:

Yes, he has donated funds. I cannot tell him where to place his funds, but I can voice the opinion where it would better be served. HE made the comment about Hooked on Phonics, soooooooooo if that is the problem-area (which it is, I can say this as a teacher)... channel your funds THERE! If he would have mentioned locating a job after you get your degree, then I would not have suggested supporting primary grade levels financially. :D

BTW, I would love for him to donate a few duckets to the program where I tutor reading. Maybe, I would not have to donate my funds (public school teachers don't make JACK!) ;) on supplies/materials. :D

ETA: not only Bill, but the other rich AAs. They are not wealthy, they are rich. :D

Ok, I see your logic. I'd think however, that if he's already dropped $900 million at the collegiate level, that's probably where he thinks the most difference/impact can be made, and his phonics comment might have been off the cuff. but who knows?

hey, if we wind up taking up a GC collection, put me down for $20. :D

preachdawg 05-21-2004 03:37 PM

Bill !
 
I like what Bill has said. In a nutshell I believe he saying that your socio economic status should not cause you to lower your standards for what you expect out of your children educationally, and or behaviorally. Many of the greatest leaders out of the Black and lower class communities have been from the most humble beginnings. As parents we have to strive not let our own personal failures is life to not effect what we teach our children about who they are, and where they can go in life. Sometimes we have to just humble ourselves and tell our kids the truth that mommy or daddy have not always made the best decisions, and in certain areas of our live they shouldn't look to us as the best examples. Finally I would be doing my vocation [Pastor] a diservices If I did not say we as a Black community should get back to when the Churches in our communities were the hub for many of the communities developmental programs. Because when it is all said and done this issue is really about the inward souls of men and women and will ultimately not be solved as Carter Woodson would say by a "antiquated educational system".

blackwatch06 05-21-2004 07:25 PM

We are seeing the end result of racism
 
I see where Dr. Cosby is coming from with his sentiments. Ultimately , we as a community have to do a critical self examination. Yes there is a racist society out there; police brutality, environmental racism, redlining us out of good property values, gentrification, inadeduate healthcare, unemployment and underemployment, the list can go on and on. Also, the list is not a new list. These things (and worse) have been happening to our community for hundreds of years. The conditions of the society are not new, what has changed is the condition of our souls. We have allowed the racism that we fought so diligently for over 400 years to finally dictate to us what our reality is. It is the racist that says that black people cannot excell, cannot learn discipline, cannot be educated. Now, that racist is our own people. Talk to a a young black kid in your community. Ask them what it means to be black, what it means to be white, what it means to be "real" so to speak, and you'd think you were talking to either a young klansman, or a neo-conservative "colorblind" person who sees no color, but understands the "proper" social order of white supremacy and knows that blacks are suppposed to be at the bottom of that order. One kid (black mind you) had the nerve to tell me that there was no such thing as racism and that black people are at the bottom of the social order because we simply "choose to be". This of course, supposes that black people just are ignorant, lazy, and violent by nature, which he stated that "most of them are, but I am not black, I am American" :confused: . Later on that same day, he and 2 of his black(or not black) friends were handcuffed by the police for playing with a BB gun at a block party.

I talk with black youth everyday on the job and I tell you, there is no sense of community nor excellence. The ideal or goal is to get over on people or "Hustle", but they don't have the literacy skills nor the analytical thinking skills to be "successful" at it, so it no longer shocks me to see our jails overrun with young black boys and men. A blind cop with no legs can see them doing a crime and catch them with out so much as breaking a sweat. We are in bad shape brothers and sisters if our community is depending on the hip-hop generation to carry on a struggle for freedom, justice, and equality.

I agree with preachdawg, our churches need to step up and have total community development as a goal. But are churches today really equipped to meet such a challenge? The political evil of racism has become the spiritual evil of self hatred in our community. This self hatred is becomming our collective self identity, and the only way some of our people deal with it is to claim some sort of "non-racial" status, which means nothing because we do not define race for ourselves, the larger society does. And because of it, we as a community have to rethink our spiritual strivings and focus on the community as a source of divine inspiration and movement.
Blackwatch!!!!!!

abaici 05-21-2004 07:59 PM

Re: Bill is.....
 
Quote:

Originally posted by djjukebox
Somehow, a lot of our people have DEVALUED education and put an emphasis on MATERIAL things.
True. First of all, I agree with many of his statements.

HOWEVER, I think that Mr. Cosby unfairly pointed a finger at the "lower economic people". They are not the only group guilty of bad parenting (Mr. Cosby is well aware of that). Also, I just disagree with the venue. I just don't see how choosing this venue will HELP the situation he is speaking about. We will not improve the situation by marching and making speeches. Most of the people who need to hear his message, are not listening. As someone said, this is a grassroots effort. I applaud his philanthropy at the college level...but so many of our babies will not even make it there.

Phasad1913 05-22-2004 12:53 AM

Re: We are seeing the end result of racism
 
Quote:

Originally posted by blackwatch06
I see where Dr. Cosby is coming from with his sentiments. Ultimately , we as a community have to do a critical self examination. Yes there is a racist society out there; police brutality, environmental racism, redlining us out of good property values, gentrification, inadeduate healthcare, unemployment and underemployment, the list can go on and on. Also, the list is not a new list. These things (and worse) have been happening to our community for hundreds of years. The conditions of the society are not new, what has changed is the condition of our souls. We have allowed the racism that we fought so diligently for over 400 years to finally dictate to us what our reality is. It is the racist that says that black people cannot excell, cannot learn discipline, cannot be educated. Now, that racist is our own people. Talk to a a young black kid in your community. Ask them what it means to be black, what it means to be white, what it means to be "real" so to speak, and you'd think you were talking to either a young klansman, or a neo-conservative "colorblind" person who sees no color, but understands the "proper" social order of white supremacy and knows that blacks are suppposed to be at the bottom of that order. One kid (black mind you) had the nerve to tell me that there was no such thing as racism and that black people are at the bottom of the social order because we simply "choose to be". This of course, supposes that black people just are ignorant, lazy, and violent by nature, which he stated that "most of them are, but I am not black, I am American" :confused: . Later on that same day, he and 2 of his black(or not black) friends were handcuffed by the police for playing with a BB gun at a block party.

I talk with black youth everyday on the job and I tell you, there is no sense of community nor excellence. The ideal or goal is to get over on people or "Hustle", but they don't have the literacy skills nor the analytical thinking skills to be "successful" at it, so it no longer shocks me to see our jails overrun with young black boys and men. A blind cop with no legs can see them doing a crime and catch them with out so much as breaking a sweat. We are in bad shape brothers and sisters if our community is depending on the hip-hop generation to carry on a struggle for freedom, justice, and equality.

I agree with preachdawg, our churches need to step up and have total community development as a goal. But are churches today really equipped to meet such a challenge? The political evil of racism has become the spiritual evil of self hatred in our community. This self hatred is becomming our collective self identity, and the only way some of our people deal with it is to claim some sort of "non-racial" status, which means nothing because we do not define race for ourselves, the larger society does. And because of it, we as a community have to rethink our spiritual strivings and focus on the community as a source of divine inspiration and movement.
Blackwatch!!!!!!

Excellent, and I repeat EXCELLENT points.

abaici 05-22-2004 03:17 AM

His response
 
Mr. Cosby said yesterday that what was left out of those comments, first reported by The Associated Press and The Washington Post, was that he began his remarks by talking about what he said was a 50 percent high school dropout rate among poor blacks. The National Center for Education Statistics, a federal agency, says that in 2000 the dropout rate for blacks was 13.1 percent. Mr. Cosby's publicist, David Brokaw, said it was Mr. Cosby's understanding that the rate was 50 percent in some inner-city schools.

"I am in as much pain as many, many people about these people," he continued (If white people had said this?? These people?). "The 50 percent dropout rate, the seeming acceptance of having children and not making the father responsible and calling him in on it. It's easy to pass these things on like some kind of epidemic."
Link for full story...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/22/arts/22COSB.html

Conskeeted7 05-22-2004 12:04 PM

I agree with the majority of the commments Bill Cosby made.

In relation to the proper way to speak, it is my opinion that proper grammar should be used in any public venue, whether you are talking to your friends, employer, or coworkers. You are in public and you never know who is watching. Additionally, if you know that the stereotype of black people is that we are ignorant and speak ebonics, why would you go out and confirm that stereotype, then justify it by saying you were with your friends and you know how to speak in job interviews?

That comment right there is one of my pet peeves. Because you know what, one day it might slip out in an environment where you didn't want it to. Then what? Remember this...
thoughts become words
words become actions
actions become habits
and habits build character

So, it's more than just a bunch of words, it can be a determining factor in your life.

I just think we need to step it up. It takes the same amount of breath to say something in ebonics as it does in proper English. So, what's the problem? Stop making excuses for why we can't do it and make it happen. It has to start somewhere. So, start today.

candygirl 05-22-2004 12:50 PM

I agree with Bill Cosby 100%. Its about time somebody said something and I don't see anything wrong with the venue. Those who are offended by his words are those that need to hear the message most. Its kind of like the pastor talking about sin and you get quiet, offended, and don't want to "amen" because it hit too close to home.

The truth of the matter is that lower class AA people need some serious help. It don't matter how you slice it. Its the truth. I applaud Bill Cosby for his philanthorpy at the college level. Many of you have stated that his efforts need to be directed toward helping children in grade school as well as educating the parents of these children. I do think that something needs to be done but Bill Cosby can't do everything. Someone mentioned personal responsibility. I believe responsibility is key and not just the responsibility of the parents. The community as a whole should become involved. Remember that old adage "It takes a village to raise a child". So what are we doing within our communities to combat this problem. What are the local organizations, block clubs, aldermans, congressmen, and churches doing to secure the future of our children.

I believe Bill Cosby's sentiments were used to provoke us to become more proactive in implementing some sort change. Instead of criticizing him for his beliefs we should do something about problem.

ykimber 05-22-2004 01:09 PM

I believe Bill Cosby is telling the truth and the only reason people are mad is because he is speaking about his own race. The truth really hurts and this is a prime example.

abaici 05-22-2004 01:26 PM

Again, it's the truth...but it's not the WHOLE truth. If you are going to put it out there like that..."Make it plain" as the ole folks say.

Krisco 05-22-2004 02:28 PM

I am split about Mr. Cosbys comments and some here. The 'lower class' being referred to that could be one of many reasons the problems exist. If a group of people are told all their lives in so many words "you are the lower class, the virtual feces of the american society" and the cycle of self hatred, lowered expectations and devaluement is ingrained to the degree whether by our 'own' or not, how can we seriously believe they want anything else?? I am from that lower class Bill spoke so highly about, and I am sure many of my fellow GC'ers are also. Yes the comments he made had some truly valid points to them, but they were off for me, on the right track but not heartfelt. Like AKAD91 said, we gotta get to the root of this, the people in college are not who I am worrying about! I know we all must answer the challenge, and answering those challenges mean going on various levels and relating our goals to our realities.
We got our work cut out for us my brothers and sisters...

Great discussion, I enjoy reading everyone's vantage point...to a degree:p

madmax 05-22-2004 02:49 PM

Re: Re: I see it as tough love
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
I agree ! We are so quick to let our people (i.e entertainers especially) off the hook when it comes to a having a smidgen of accountability, not even realizing that its OUR community that is lacking role models at every turn. Yes, I agree that the first role model in a child's life should be the parent, but what if the parents (which more times will also include their extended family) aren't up to par? We need as may positive role models for our youth (especially black males) as we can get.
Tell your kids to be like me. I will be their role model.

NUPE4LIFE 05-23-2004 11:46 AM

Again I ask, why do we need role models? There is a lot of truth to what Mr. Cosby is saying. But why do we need role models? We don't like it when we as Blacks are seen as ethnomonolithic, but saying we need role models is buying into it. Are we an ethnomonolith or we a diverse group of people for whom some are good and some are bad?

Steeltrap 05-23-2004 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NUPE4LIFE
Again I ask, why do we need role models? There is a lot of truth to what Mr. Cosby is saying. But why do we need role models? We don't like it when we as Blacks are seen as ethnomonolithic, but saying we need role models is buying into it. Are we an ethnomonolith or we a diverse group of people for whom some are good and some are bad?
I think we're a diverse group of people in terms of politics, economics, education, good and bad. But I still see some reluctance to be individuals among us. I believe we can and should come together on certain issues, but we should not be an ethnomonolith.

abaici 05-23-2004 01:09 PM

I think role models are a necessary. However, I think there's a difference between a role model and a leader. Role models are people that you look up to. There were always people in my community that I looked up to.

Phasad1913 05-23-2004 07:12 PM

Re: Re: Re: I see it as tough love
 
Quote:

Originally posted by madmax
Tell your kids to be like me. I will be their role model.

And who are you? Why should anyone look to you as a role model? If you were being serious, then I would appreciate a serious response. If not, don't waste time in this thread because this is, aparantly, a serious discussion.

RBL 05-23-2004 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by abaici
I think role models are a necessary. However, I think there's a difference between a role model and a leader. Role models are people that you look up to. There were always people in my community that I looked up to.
I agree that role models are necessary. While it would be ideal that parents be the role model for their children I do understand that is not always the case in our community. So for those children who don't have role models it would be a necessity for them to see positive images and have something to aspire to.

Senusret I 05-23-2004 07:58 PM

Re: Re: Bill is.....
 
Quote:

Originally posted by abaici
True. First of all, I agree with many of his statements.

HOWEVER, I think that Mr. Cosby unfairly pointed a finger at the "lower economic people". They are not the only group guilty of bad parenting (Mr. Cosby is well aware of that). Also, I just disagree with the venue. I just don't see how choosing this venue will HELP the situation he is speaking about. We will not improve the situation by marching and making speeches. Most of the people who need to hear his message, are not listening. As someone said, this is a grassroots effort. I applaud his philanthropy at the college level...but so many of our babies will not even make it there.

I basically agree with everything you said here.

Since I really can't stand Bill Cosby, I'll leave it at that.

Rudey 05-24-2004 12:39 AM

Did he really donate 900 million or are people exaggerating? I've donated 20 bucks to my college and think that was too much.

I think Obama should be a role model for African-Americans.

-Rudey

AXEAM 05-24-2004 10:03 AM

Come on man do you really not understand the need for positive role models in the black community, if you don't just look around. I'm not trying to cause any waves but I work w/ youths and you'll be surprised by how just being around an older person who dresses,speak and displays proper behavior have on them.



Senusret Why can't you stand Cosby?

Abaici It is a grass roots effort that should start w/the parents if Cosby can donate millions in order to help young blacks to be in a position to attend college, the parents can at least donate the effort in order for their kids to make it to a level to recieve what the Cosbys of the world are offering. He can't do it all for them.

lovelyivy84 05-24-2004 10:22 AM

I agree with what he said too and wanted to point out- he is Bill Cosby, it doesn't matter WHAT venue he used to say it, it would be reported. Just like if it was Oprah or Michael Jordan- his stature as a mainstream star has made his comments mainstream too.

Like many of you I work in a school, and I gotta say that I question the idea of cultural "role models". The only person who can be a role model for a kid is a parent. If the parent doesn't do his or her job then NO ONE will. Teachers can try, grandparents can try, and to some extent they might be able to alleviate the worst of the damage but in the end, you can't replace that figure.

I would love to see an initiative in teaching parenting skills to individuals of lower economic classes, regardless of race. That is where the problems start, and where they can end.


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