A white Chingy??
 

If there were a hip-hop party, and you dressed up as Chingy, that's cool, right? But if you're white, don't do it. I think that is absolutely s**t, discuss....

++++++++++++++++++
The Georgia State University Signal
May 12, 2004

Georgia State U. Pike member comes forward to answer charges

By J.D. Sumner, The Georgia State University Signal

Who knew that dressing up like rap sensation Chingy could get someone in so much trouble?

After nearly four months of threats, anxiety and misinformation, a Pi Kappa Alpha fraternity member who donned black face paint at a January party has decided to step out of the shadows and answer charges that he and his beloved fraternity are racist.

Bill, as we'll refer to him, has endured the threats, insults and, most recently, the sanctions handed down by the Senate Judicial Committee for Student Discipline.

"I had no intention of offending anyone," Bill said. "I've had friends come up to me and ask if I was a racist because of bad information that's been circulated throughout campus."

The week before the party started routinely enough. The Pikes gathered into their typical planning meeting to discuss upcoming events, when they were told of about a hip-hop theme party.

"We were told to come dressed as our favorite rapper," Bill said. "I chose to dress up like Chingy, and the other guy chose to dress up like Dr. Dre. And it wasn't just black face paint," Bill continued, "We were dressed up head to toe."

Chingy, one of the latest members of Atlanta-based rapper Ludicris' Disturbing Tha Peace family, has hit the ranks of the rapping world big time with his debut album "Jackpot."

Bill, who comes from a sizeable north Georgia town, said that he had never heard of the history or connotations surrounding blackface and that he was simply trying to dress up like his favorite rapper.

Upon arriving at the party, the two were immediately confronted by former Pike President Rick Burt, who told them that while he personally wasn't offended by the paint, that trouble had occurred at other schools when people had done similar things and that "it'd be best to wash it off."

Ironically, the trouble started as the two were headed to wash the paint off their faces. It was while they were waiting to get into the bathroom that members of the Phi Beta Sigma fraternity first encountered them.

"Not a word was said. I saw one of their members and they just kept walking by. It all happened pretty quickly," Bill said. When asked if they recognized who he was, Bill replied, "No, no I don't think so."

After washing the paint off of their faces, Bill said the two left the party and didn't return. He also said that, after hearing that some of the Sigmas had been offended by the stunt, the Pikes tried to get them to come back so they could apologize, but it just didn't happen that night.

According to the testimony of Pike president Dan Forrester at the fraternity hearing held last week, he called the Sigmas the next morning to apologize and set up a meeting where everyone could get together face-to-face for an apology.

"I apologized face-to-face and in writing. I truly was sorry that I offended people; it wasn't our intent at all," Bill said.

Intentions aside, the stunt sparked controversy and created a racial divide at a university that prides itself on racial diversity.

Bill, a fourth-year student at Georgia State University, is appealing the sanctions handed down to him by the committee, saying that there were procedural and evidentiary problems and that the sanction imposed was too harsh for the situation.

He declined to comment on what those sanctions were but did say that Dr. Hazel Scott was hearing his appeal. Should she reject his appeal, Bill's next steps are to go to President Carl Patton and then to the Board of Regents for the University System of Georgia.

Bill says his life has changed in a number of ways since the incident. He concedes that, while his character and constitutions are the same, he's now more conscious of things that people might find offensive.

"When I get dressed every morning I think, 'will people think this shirts offensive today?' It's gotten to the point where I don't want to walk around campus anymore with my brothers," Bill said. "There is definitely hatred here; it's scary."

For now, Bill won't even entertain the idea of transferring to another school because of the stunt. He's intent on finishing up his coursework and graduating.

What's happening here at Georgia State sounds eerily like a similar incident at the University of Tennessee in 2002. There, members of the campus chapter of Kappa Sigma dressed in blackface as the Jackson Five for an air-guitar contest at a campus party. After discussions, administration officials decided not to penalize the members for their stunt due to their constitutional right to free speech, saying that the right of expression must be protected even "when some find it to be insensitive and offensive."

(C) 2003 The Georgia State University Signa
++++++++++++++++++++++

Moderator's Note...
 

FYI, this article is also posted in the Risk Management Forum. It may get more play here, though, so I think it's worthwhile to leave it here.

This topic has caused huge debates when it has come up over the past several years, and it is obvious that is raises strong emotions on both sides.

I will ask that responses in this forum remain respectful. If not, I will delete or edit them.

To refresh your memory, below is what you agreed to when you set up your GreekChat Account:

Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please press the Agree button at the end of the page. Note: By pressing the button you declare that you are over the age of 13. If you are 13 or under you may not register with this website.

Although the administrators and moderators of GreekChat.com Forums will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of GreekChat.com Forums or the developers of this software will be held responsible for the content of any message.

By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you.

The owners of GreekChat.com Forums have the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason. Please note that advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are inappropriate on this BB.

Thank you in advance for following these guidelines.

Re: A white Chingy??
 

No I disgree. I think if you're white you can come dressed up as Chingy or whoever. But I tend to think that you can get your point across without black face. I also don't think you need to know the historical implications of blackface to know that it's offensive
I think it's stupid to tell invite someone to a party and say come as your favourite rapper only to turn around and say, "but since you're white you can only come as Eminem or Vanilla Ice".
People are smart enough to figure out who you're trying to portray. I mean if I showed up wearing next to nothing I'm pretty sure people could figure out I was dressed as Lil' Kim.
It is possible to imitate your favourite artist, athlete, etc, etc, wothout being offensive Even if that person is of another race.
I'm sure a black man could dress up as Donald Trump wearing a suit and a really bad wig and we'd all know who he wa trying to be without painting is face white.
What these guys did was stupid and ignorant and offensive. I would be offended if I was at that party. You can't always play the ignorant card.

I respectfully disagree. If you were to come dressed with little to nothing on, I'd guess Britney Spears, Chritina Agulera...etc., before I were to go on to Little Kim. Also, if its fair to say you can always pull the ignorant card, then you can't always pull the race card.

Again I disagree. If it were a "come as your favourite rapper" party, then Lil Kim would be a logical choice. If a girl showed up in White lengerie and a white wig I would think, "Oh Lil Kim from the Lady Marmalade video" If it were "come as your favourite artist" then yes I could see Where one might say Christina or Britney, etc, etc.

But I do agree with you one thing thing. I don't think you can alway play the ignorant card, just like I don't think you can always play the race card.

Well, I guess we can agree to agree, or disagree, eh? :)

Anyway, the point I was/am trying to make, is that issues such as this tend to get so far out of whack, its rediculous. I mean what the Beta's and Delta Sigs did at Auburn was horrible, they paid their price, they learned from it and moved on. But these kids, dang, they just dressed up, it wasn't offensive, it wasn't hatred, it was just some individuals who got all pi$$ed off over something little and went to war with it.

Thats why P.C. America sucks today. If a black female dressed up as Celine Deion in "white face, I'd think it was hilarious, as would almost everyone else.

This is a GREAT quote from todays FoxNews.com:

"Patrick and Lisa in Albuquerque write:

Ah, the double standard in Albuquerque again. Where is El Centro de la Raza or the Chicano studies department at UNM when it comes to one of the local eateries here in Albuquerque, namely the eight Garcia's Kitchen's? Their marketing logo, worn on all employees' shirts, proudly states "Help stamp out gringo food."

Can you imagine the uproar if I used the word "spic" or, God forbid, the "n" word (as we now have to refer to it) in an Anglo promotion?

Oh yeah, that's right, only white people are offensive, and only "minorities" can be offended. "

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120071,00.html

Stupid question alert!!!!!!
 

I'm confused by this person's letter. :confused: A Hispanic eatery (Garcia Kitchen) is using the marketing slogan "Help stamp out gringo food." Is "gringo" a deroggatory term for non-hispanics? I've never heard this word before.

Can someone give me the jist surrounding the purpose of this story?

:confused:

Re: Stupid question alert!!!!!!
 

Yes Gringo is a "derogatory" word for white people. Although I can't give you the historical context for this term.

Re: Re: Stupid question alert!!!!!!
 

Thanks Lady Pi Phi. :)

I learned something new today.

DAMN IM SO TIRED OF THIS SUBJECT! CANT WE FIND SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE INTERESTING!!

if you're tired of it then why comment on it?

Thank you, im glad im not the only one that sees this issue. You can people go on TV all day saying "cracker" "honkey" "white trash" etc etc...and nobody sees it really as a problem, but if one derogitory term is used towards a minority then its the end of the world (I'm actually white and im a minority in my community, so yes whites are minorites too now).
Now if a white person was to make a big deal about being called a cracker, people would think of him as overreacting, correct?
Double standard and reverse racism....

I certainly wouldn't think you were overreacting. If you don't want to be called that, I wouldn't say it, and I would support your desire to be called what you choose.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...erm=gringo&f=1

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gringo


Perhaps those will give some idea of the frame of reference of "gringo" to those who have not heard of it.

I don't see this as big of a deal as some other events where people put on black face with the sole purpose of being offensive... but black face is just offensive no matter the intentions behind it.

Perhaps that's the point. A number of people have said that they didn't realize that the use of blackface was as objectionable as it obviously is. Isn't it possible that the terms mentioned might be as objectionable to another race?

While some may be used in jest, I don't see any of them being used in a complimentary manor(?).

As a Black woman, I can say I don't think you are overreacting AT ALL! I have to say I cringe and get pissed off when I hear ANY slur whether it be directed toward, Whites, Blacks, Arabs, Gays, Jews, Hispanics, Asians, what have you. And I do not allow them to be said in my home

So the double standard doesn't work with me!

Have any of you ever heard of the concept of political capital?

You are endowed with a bit of political capital and earn more throw your experiences, etc. You can spend it as you wish. Sometimes you can squander it.

Saying the word "niggardly" is racist was squandering political capital. There were so many other issues to spend that political capital on.

Constantly saying blacks are sensitive and can't handle blackface is squandering political capital.

This isn't even an issue of right or wrong anymore, as much as it is turning into a redundant waste.

-Rudey

I am continuously surprised at the number of people who don't understand "historical context."

It is not a double standard, it is not "reverse racism" . . . it is placing things in their proper historical and cultural contexts. "Cracker" is more acceptable than "nigger" because of the historical implications of such terms. If you are a white person who is offended by "cracker" then GREAT -- make it known. If no whites ever comment on the fact that they're offended by that, then it will continue to be seen as less harmful. And if you're a white who's not offended by the use of "cracker" or "honkey" but you're just using it to make a point, then I don't think they're comparable.

Also, Rudey, comparing the "niggardly" example to blackface is hardly accurate. "Niggardly" had no ties whatsoever to racial issues. Blackface does, and is offensive. It isn't about people not being able to "handle" it -- it's about what's appropriate.

I'm not sure why so many people are obsessed with their "right" to wear blackface. I don't know, but I'd cheerfully give up my right to paint myself brown and call myself Oprah if it meant that there would be less racial conflict in this country.

I have to agree here. When I hear the term "cracker" doesn't really offend me. But it does tell me a lot about the person using it. I don't think it's a double standard at all. When you hear "cracker" used in a tv show. Do you call the station/production comapny/fcc to complain about? Probably not. Most people just shrug it off. To me, there are worse things you can call me than a "cracker".
Now this is just how I feel. I still think using the n-word is 100 times for offensive than "cracker".

There was no comparison made. I brought up the concept of political capital.

-Rudey

Sorry, I disagree. Cracker, White-Trash, Honkey, White-Bread...etc., are used on TV and Radio every day. The "n" word is not said at all, if it is, then that station is fined heavily or thrown off air.

I don't condone those actions, but I think justice should be fair both ways. Fair is fair, but that game is not being played. This is a prime example of P.C. America at its best I guess.

If those kids truly did that in a non-offensive way, whether they knew the history or NOT, they shouldn't have to run from threats and feel as though they will be beat up walking to class. And for that kid to have to think about what shirt he wears every day and who it may offend, is such shit. Ask yourself the same question, do you think about that every day? I doubt it.

Also, they shouldn't have to know the history behind everything prior to doing something - thats a lame excuse.

Maybe people should focus more of their time protesting the Klan or White-Sepremicist groups or something, not some 20 year old kids dressing as Chingy and Dr. Driz-ay.

'...chillin at the Holidae Inn'

You seem to be spending a bit of time on here protesting that they protest.

-Rudey

Exaclty....you should see the protest sign I made.

The reason why "cracker," "white trash," etc. are used when the n-word is not is because the majority of white Americans are not offended by "cracker," or if they are, they don't make their offense known. If that happened, "cracker" would be off the air almost immediately.

Sorry, but ignorance is not an excuse. You do something racist, it doesn't matter that you don't know the history behind it -- it is still unacceptable. It's ridiculous that anyone can make it to college these days and not understand the historical implications of blackface.

And as for the white supremecists -- racism is played out by stupid ignorant 20-year-olds in this country much more often than the Klan makes their precense felt. Racism doesn't just apply to cross-burners -- it is something that we all influence on a daily basis.

To be fair, Rudey is referencing a situation that occured in DC a few years ago, early into Mayor Anthony Williams' administration.

Full Article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...iams020499.htm

In this case I don't have much of an opinion. But in general, I'm more threatened by "20 year old kids" in college than the klan or white supremicists, when it comes to racism. White supremists and the klan are extremists that very few people take seriously. On the other hand, college students have potential to be become future leaders, such as politicians, managers, teachers, etc. They will have more power, unlike those extremist groups.

I'm not too interested in this discussion, but props to the old president for confronting them right when they walked in. Whether they had a right to wear it or not, I think it's great that someone was intelligent enough to learn from another chapter's mistakes and be proactive.

I don't recall ever being taught about blackface in my schooling, from grade school through my undergrad and never heard about it, it's history, or any of its offensive meaning, until I read about the Auburn incident - sorry. I doubt it is being taught in the majority of schools...so, ignorance may not be an excuse to you, but its not fair to assume that everyone and their mother is aware of that. I am sure there are plenty of people who'd agree with me.

Still, everything listed below is not an excuse to make these kids lives hell. Its an un-level playing field, unfortunately.

paging ZZ-kai . . . paging ZZ-kai . . . you have a beating awaiting (from Dionysus no less) in your own thread . . . last call for ZZ-kai

Bring it, tough guy.

True, they don't make it known, but should you have to complain about everything all the time. But the simple fact that most (not all) people dont feel that its wrong calling a white person a racial derogitory remark, and calling any other race an equal remark is unexcuseable. Take an example, if you saw that a group of white people were complaining about the words "cracker" and "honkey" etc were being used on television and they were protesting then most people would think they're crazy, right or wrong? The simple fact is that there is a double standard, and god damn it dont say im racist here. Whites can be trashed to no ends of the earth, its becoming as if theyre a joke topic now. But to make fun of a minority is a crime. Sorry, but I get offended if I'm called a cracker or white trash, because its a derogitory remark. Yes there are worse things you can call me, but putting me down isn't really high on my list of things to tolerate.

Whether the people complain about it or not, people advocating racial harmony and rights should see every side of the table. Do you think that calling white people crackers and honkeys is really helping race relations?

WHY, Blackface??? Can someone please answer that question for me? Break it down to the least common denominator.

Even if a Black person wants to dress up as Chingy, they may not be the same coloring. Does, that Black man darken or lighten himself?...um, no.

Go as Chingy...wear the clothes. If someone asks who you are, say, "I'm Chingy" (Most people ask what/who you are at costume parties anyway).

Otherwise, go as Eminem or Vanilla Ice if you do not want people to ask who you are.


**I refuse to address the point of a "Go as your fav. rapper party"**

I think you are generalizing WAYYYYYY too much. A comedian does not reflect the views of an ENTIRE group of people.

Anyway if you are offended, then PLEASE let that person, TV stations, radio, etc. know about it! And (surprise, surprise) I highly doubt most folks would think you're crazy. You may be surprised to discover that A LOT of minorities would agree with you (since we know exactly what you're feeling).

Shoot, until this thread, I didn't know what the heck "gringo" was or meant much less that it was a derrogatory term for whites. After reading this thread, I did rememeber that word before. There was a picture in Glamour magazine with a celebrity wearing a T-Shirt with the word across the chest (It was the girl that does the voice of Kim Possible - I can't think of her name). Never would have guess that it was something offensive. I wonder does she know? :confused:

Ok, I'm babbling.....:)

Here, here! What he said!

No baiting.

Nobody's calling anyone out.

Watch the expletives.

This is a debate, not a fight.

Go to the other threads if you want the latter.

You know who you are.

An interesting anecdote:

Jackie Robinson actually had many try-outs with major league teams before he was signed by the Dodgers - one of the first was with the Boston Red Sox. He, along with the immortal Josh Gibson and a few other players, worked through a full skills workout in Fenway, decidedly out-performing the white AAA players running through the drills with them. As they left the field, a man yelled from the box seats behind home plate, "Great workout, but let's get those niggers off the field."


That man? Purportedly Tom Yawkey, famed Red Sox owner and philanthropist.

Now, the point is not to deride Tom Yawkey, nor to excuse his behavior as being a 'reflection of his time' or whatever - instead, I'd like to ask you this question:

You think an analogous situation ever arose with regard to white people? Did the word "cracka" or any other such nonsense ever come up in this sort of situation?

There's no sort of history behind these supposed white racial slurs. Your views are implicitly flawed by ignoring this fact.

FACT!

Well, these incidents are occurring with alarming frequency. A number of these incidents have been covered in nationally. I would hope that a lightbulb would have turned on in people's head..."Blackface is offensive"





Well, you can correct that. After someone tells you something, you can no longer feign ignorance.

How do you know? For a word to be used in the general public there has to be some sort of history behind it, and all it sounds like is that youre trying to justify using derogitory remarks towards white people since there is supposedly no history behind them, does that still make it right?