Decry the prisoner abuse all that you want....
 

But at least those iraqis are still alive.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119615,00.html

Video Appears to Show Beheading of American

Tuesday, May 11, 2004



CAIRO, Egypt — A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site showed the beheading of an American civilian in Iraq, and said the execution was carried out by an Al Qaeda affiliated group to avenge the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers.

The video showed five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks, standing over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit — similar to a prisoner's uniform — who identified himself as Nick Berg (search), a U.S. contractor whose body was found on a highway overpass in Baghdad on Saturday.

"My name is Nick Berg, my father's name is Michael, my mother's name is Susan," the man said on the video. "I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah. I live in ... Philadelphia."

After reading a statement, the men were seen pulling the man to his side and putting a large knife to his neck. A scream sounded as the men cut his head off, shouting "Allahu Akbar!" — "God is great." They then held the head out before the camera.

Berg's family said Tuesday they knew their son had been decapitated, but didn't know the details of the killing. When told of the video by an Associated Press reporter, Berg's father, Michael, and his two siblings hugged and cried.

"I knew he was decapitated before. That manner is preferable to a long and torturous death. But I didn't want it to become public," Michael Berg said.

On the Web site, one of the executioners read a statement:

"For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage with some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib (search) and they refused."

"So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffins after coffins ... slaughtered in this way."

The video bore the title "Abu Musab al-Zarqawi shown slaughtering an American." It was unclear whether al-Zarqawi — a lieutenant of Usama bin Laden — was shown in the video, or was claiming responsibility for ordering the execution.

The Web site on which the video was posted is known as a clearing house for Al Qaeda and Islamic extremist groups' statements and tapes. An audiotape purportedly from bin Laden — which the CIA said was probably authentic — appeared on the same Web site last week.

Western officials say al-Zarqawi, whose real name is Ahmad Fadhil al-Khalayleh, is a lieutenant of bin Laden. The United States has offered $10 million for information leading to the capture or killing of al-Zarqawi, saying he is trying to build a network of foreign militants in Iraq to work for Al Qaeda.

In the video, the speaker threatened both President Bush and Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf (search).

"As for you Bush ... expect severe days. You and your soldiers will regret the day you stepped into the land of Iraq," he said. He described Musharraf as "a traitor agent."

The slaying recalled the kidnapping and videotaped beheading of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl (search) in 2002 in Pakistan. Four Islamic militants have been convicted of kidnapping Pearl, but seven other suspects — including those who allegedly slit his throat — remain at large.

Suzanne Berg, the mother of the 26-year-old Berg, of West Chester, Pa., said her son was in Iraq as an independent businessman to help rebuild communication antennas. He had been missing since April 9, she said.

"He had this idea that he could help rebuild the infrastructure," she said.

The U.S. military Tuesday said an American civilian was found dead in Baghdad, but did not release his identity. State Department spokeswoman Susan Pittman said she couldn't release the name of the dead American, but said she not aware of more than one civilian found dead in recent days.

The military said there were signs of trauma to the body. Suzanne Berg said she was told her son's death was violent but did not want to discuss details.

Berg, who was in Baghdad from late December to Feb. 1, returned to Iraq in March. He didn't find any work and planned again to return home on March 30, but his daily communications home stopped on March 24. He later told his parents he was jailed by Iraqi officials at a checkpoint in Mosul.

"He was arrested and held without due process," his father, Michael Berg, told the Daily Local News of West Chester recently. "By the time he got out the whole area was inflamed with violence.

The FBI on March 31 interviewed Berg's parents in West Chester. Jerri Williams, a spokeswoman for the Philadelphia FBI office, told The Philadelphia Inquirer the agency had been "asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg's purpose in Iraq."

On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military. The next day Berg was released. He told his parents he hadn't been mistreated.

The Bergs last heard from their son April 9, when he said he would come home by way of Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait. But by then, hostilities in Iraq had escalated.

Suzanne Berg on Tuesday said she was told her son's body would be transported to Kuwait and then to Dover, Del. She said the family had been trying for weeks to learn where their son was but that federal officials had not been helpful.

"I went through this with them for weeks," she said. "I basically ended up doing most of the investigating myself."

Kitso
KS 361

This reminds me of the murder of Daniel Pearl. :(

Exactly! I get the heebies when I think about what I saw in that video! :eek:

I never saw that video. It must have been profoundly disturbing. I can't watch such brutality.

I want the ACLU to watch this........

The very thought of watching that video makes me sick to my stomach! Yet, the way the media misbehaves, I just know that I'll be subjected to it, whether I want to see it or not.

God bless his family & friends - and EVERYONE who is Iraq, for mercenary reasons, military reasons, or whatever!

Why did he go over there without work?

I mean wouldn't you have a contract in place before you went? At least then someone would be accountable for you.

Ok, guys . .. I know you want to make money, but please don't go searching the want-ads in Iraq?

Damn, you think people would realize.

there was a really good editorial in the Wall Street Journal on this topic, if any of you are interested.

Why????

Could you post a link??

Hope they catch who ever did this.

Nick Berg is from my area, so there are interviews with his friends and acquaintences all over the news here. Apparently he wasn't just out to make money, this was his thing — he would randomly pick up and go to some 3rd world country to see what he could do to help. Apparently he spent some time in Ghana and a few other places doing the same thing. He just wanted to help out the Iraqi people.


I think the people who abused the Iraqi prisoners should be forced to watch the video of Nick Berg's murder over and over, a la Clockwork Orange, to see what their stupidity has caused. These psychotic extremists were looking for any excuse to do this, and the idiot prison guards hand-delivered it to them. :mad:

These were two TOTALLY different things. If theyd done this 'in response' to the American occupation of their city, no one would be saying, 'well, we shouldnt have been there in the first place'.

Torturing prisoners is a f***ed up thing, and I dont condone it one bit. However, Id be hard pressed to even take prisoners if I knew that some of them had blew out a bridge under half my platoon. I was fortunate enough not to have lost any close friends or family in the September 11 attacks, but from what Ive gathered on this board and news outlets, the majority of those who have want to see whoevers responsible dead, not 'brought to justice'.

ETA: Im not saying that the Iraqis are responsible for the 9/11 attacks one way or the other, but reading it again it sounds that way. Im merely saying whether you lost a loved one in the WTC attacks, or lost a buddy in a guerilla attack in Iraq, many would feel that taking prisoners isnt justice.

One had nothing to do with the other. Actually americans were brutally massacred and hung, mutilated on a bridge before any word of prisoner abuse got out.

-Rudey

mrblonde,

I understand your feelings and logic, but if they were followed they would fly in the face of many of the tenants upon which our country was founded.

In the end, two wrongs don't make a right -- to coin a phrase.

If we're going to meet barbarism in kind, then let's drop the pretence that we're always the guys in the white hats.

If we're really going to be the good guys, then even folks like Military Intelligence and the CIA need to play by the rules. Even when it puts us at a disadvantage. Which it can.

I understand, and what Im saying is that Im thankful for the people that keep a cool enough head for taking prisoners, because Im unsure Id be able to, in their situation. Its easy to forget civility and law when fighting for the survival of yourself and those closest to you, and taking a realistic introspective, I could see how I would forget them myself. Again, glad not to be over there.

Its simple to say, 'Yeah, well, Im not like you.' Perhaps. But in terms of torture, Milgram's experiment prove that the capacity to torture is in everyone, whether under threat of death, under orders, or simply out of some sense of anger or glee, whatever motivated those soldiers who tortured the Iraqis. I can say that it may take more than my personal feelings to kill the enemy, (and though they may not be soldiers, anyone taking shots at me is my enemy) but I cant say that it isnt possible. Sadly.

Why isn't there global outrage over this around the world?

Why don't the Imams and Arab rulers say more?

-Rudey
--Because we are infidels to them

Iraqis Shocked by Beheading, Despair Over Violence
 

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Most Baghdad residents on Wednesday condemned al Qaeda's beheading of a U.S. civilian in Iraq, but many said his death was just the latest atrocity in a cycle of violence that is driving them to despair.

A Web site video showed a masked man cutting off the head of Nick Berg, a 26-year-old civilian, and said al Qaeda's leader in Iraq had personally carried out the killing in revenge for abuses against Iraqi prisoners.

Berg went missing last month when dozens of foreigners were seized by guerrillas after Marines launched a crackdown in the city of Falluja. The Marine operation followed the killing and grisly mutilation of four U.S. security guards in the city.

"The Americans killed hundreds in Falluja in retaliation for the mutilation of the four Americans and now those people are killing an American in retaliation for the torture of prisoners," said Arkan Mohammad, a cleric at Baghdad University.

"Someone has to do something to stop the cycle of violence from going on and on."

Even in the Baghdad Sunni Muslim stronghold of Adhamiya, where there is fierce opposition to the occupation, many residents were appalled by the decapitation of Berg.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5119272

There is no correlation. At all. We are not causing the 300 years of Wahabism by our current actions.

This is so sad for the Berg family. That poor man. I really don't think his execution had anything to do with the situation with Iraqi prisoners.

Didn't you guys read this part of the article:

Sounds like correlation to me.

I like basketball.

I am going to smack my hand on the table because I like basketball.

I slapped my hand on the table, but it was to prove a point to you and not because I liked basketball.

-Rudey

As horrifying and sad as the Berg murder is, I think that they just used the abuse as an excuse. They murder people all the time and they did the same thing to Daniel Pearl last year. I think they saw it as a good opportunity.

co sign. the people who did this are terrorist. they don't need an excuse.

yebo

I agree with the last two posts.

There are only 63 days left on the 90 day extension. I'll be holding my breath the whole time!

aj

co-sign the co-sign

I agree that they don't need an excuse, but that's no reason to give them one. It made them feel more justified in doing what they did.

News flash: Homicidal maniacs arent reasonable people. That 'excuse' is like a woman having shortish brown hair being an excuse for Ted Bundy to kill them.

I agree with your point that Berg's murderers probably were already murderers, as opposed to being created solely by the Iraqi prisoner abuse and torture photos.

However, I ask the question, who are "they?" Daniel Pearl was killed in Pakistan if I'm not mistaken. Whenever any of us speak of "they," who are "they?"

and "terrorists" is not an acceptable answer because it is too vague

Here goes another Politically INcorrect answer:
The "they" are those crazed Muslims..you know..the folx that said Praise be to Allah when they rammed themselves into the Twin Towers...

The above comments are the sole view of Love_Spell_6 and do not reflect the majority of GCers :p

The same "they" that flew into the twin towers, the same "they" that cut the throat of Daniel Pearl, the same "they" that cut off the head of Nick Berg.

That was a dumb and irrelevant question.

-Rudey

Well, when they shoot at us they become the enemy.

But your point is taken, we should avoid generalizing entire populations in to the enemy.

Egyptian and Saudi Arabian Muslim Extremists
Pakistani Muslim Extremists

I would say terrorists.

Whether they were Muslim or their nationalities didn't factor in and extremist and militant are nice terms often used for Terrorist.

Whatever point your post wanted to get across was lost.

-Rudey

Just wanted to say that all of this extremism and terrorism lead to one house, the House of Saud.

Hey, I just straightened the calculator on my desk. That's about as irrelevant to the topic as anything else and oh yeah, it had no connection to what I said previously.

-Rudey
--Can you sense the sarcasm?

No.

I actually thought about that while I was typing it, but I figured most of us kind of knew who "they" were. Terrorists, in my opinion, is a perfectly acceptable answer because it's true. I agree with what Rudey has already said.

OMG - not that I am weighing in on this against moe.ron -- I just had to LMAO at this quote -- you are too funny Rudey :D