International Churches of Christ
 

PLEASE be sensitive in your responses.

I have a friend who told me today that he is involved with the International Churches of Christ. I should have known based on the changes in his personality over the past few months, but I never really thought that his new reflective, somewhat introspective nature was externally influenced.

I have been reading literature on it, and I am concerned for him.

While his priorities are definitely still straight (school, work, professional development, etc) I think that he is losing himself in the process of getting closer to what he feels is God.

Does anyone have any insight?

Again....please be sensitive....I have no idea who is a member of the ICOC here on GC, and I am not trying to disrespect, just hear personal experiences.

I just want to submit that there is a BIG difference in the International Churches of Christ and plain 'ole churches of Christ... Totally different...

As a member of the church of Christ, I do not want people associating the two...

If you really want info on the ICOC, think about going to Beliefnet.com and looking it up there. You'll probably get more info.

Thanks.

I should specify that I have been to the websites and I am now looking for personal experiences from GCers.

hey do you remember that pool with the dirty water in it at HU? it's like in the valley behind the library...i think behind the DST Fortitude thing?

Well we were outside one day and they were baptising some people in that pissy a@@, dirty a@@ water. I'm not trying to be funny, but all the people that I met up there that were affliated were very crazy. I'm sure there are some here who are not, so I'm not trying to offend; but I met some bad ones. My advice, get your friend out; however you can.

edited to add
NOw that I think about it...I remember hearing something about them taking people out into the woods and doing something to them. And they never let the new ones talk to anyone alone. If you talkin to one of the new ones they always come over to make sure that you not saying anything to them that is "bad". Everytime we talked to one of them, they came over running.

Hey chica!

I haven't been in The Valley lately, all I remember is Fortitude and the Omega monument, but I'll take your word for it.

Are you sure it was the International Churches of Christ?

100% cuz everybody said they were a cult

lol

That'll teach me to post before reading the whole thread.

Bad me.

once again lol

it's cool, ktsnake. :)

The girl who was my roomate my freshmen and sophomore years joined the ICOC. :(

I use the sad face because it was so sad to lose my friend. She joined that church sometime in the year or so after we stopped living togther (I had gone to England on a work visa and she lost her financial aid and had to move home). In the subsequent years, she would ONLY talk to me about the ICOC or "bible study" or about her "quiet time". Even though I am a practicing Christian, she still insisted I should attend HER church's services.

One day I ran into her and, yet again, she wanted to get to me do a Bible study with her. I finally decided to go, knowing full well that her church, in my opinion, is cult-like. I just wanted to see what it was about and where she might be in all of it.

She said it would be me and her in a casual discussion but, surprise surprise, she brought two other people with her. She "led" the study while the other two sat there and did not contribute. Rather, it was quite painfully obvious that it was all a set up and that she was following a pre-planned study set up in attempt to demonstrate to me that my Christian beliefs were not cutting it and that the ICOC "has it right."

The other two girls would turn to the exact same passage of scripture BEFORE my friend even mentioned it; plus, those verses were already underlined in their Bibles. I was so not fooled. Then, my friend would ask a question to the "whole group" but everyone would turn and look at me for my answer. When I did answer, one of them would ask follow-up questions in an attempt to get me to say something contrary to scripture. For example, they kept trying to get me to admit that my baptism was invalid and that I wasn't fulfilling The Great Commission because I wasn't inviting random strangers to church on a daily basis. :eek: :confused:

I remember that one girl started to realize that I wasn't going to crack easily and started pressing me with leading questions. "Wouldn't you agree that this scripture tells us that we should be doing XYZ?" When I wouldn't answer the way she wanted, she would press me some more. Finally, I turned to her and said something to the effect of, "Clearly you don't approve of my answers. Tell me what you want to hear and I'd be happy to humour you." At that moment, the expressions on their faces told me that they realized I was a lost cause and we ended the "Bible study".

Here's the absolute worst. This is the moment when I realized that I had truly lost my friend:

A year or so later, I lost my mother unexpectedly. Of course, it was devastating and sad for all of us. A few months later, I got a phone call from my friend out of the blue. I was pleased to hear from her because I still cared about her as my old roomie and friend. She started by asking how I was. I gently informed her that much had happened since we last spoke and that I was sad to report that my mother had died. Get this, she responded with, "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that, I'll pray for you. So, my church is having a BBQ next Saturday and I wanted to know if you wanted to go." :eek:

Oh boy. :( I don't mean this to sound funny or flippant, but she really did sound "brainwashed" at that point. She went on and on about how she had been hanging out with some guy at her church, that she had met his parents for dinner and that she hoped that "they" will let them start dating soon. Mind you, she was like, 23 years old at this time.

I just didn't know what to do for her. I think I saw her around campus a couple times after that, but I haven't heard from her since. :(

.....Kelly :(

They have a branch in Anchorage, but it is called "Great Land Christian Church". The people I know who are hard core Christians of what *I* would consider "cultish" churches, considered them cults, so, it seems to be the predominate feeling so far. If I remember right, these people spoke in tongues, and had the feeling of "if you aren't one of us, you are going to HELL"!!! As a Lutheran and part of an interfaith ministry, that really bothers me. My experience with these types of groups is one of well, brainwashing, but I cna't think of a better term right now. Any religion or group that condemns others for their beliefs isn't my scene, so I haven't been close to them, just a friendliness and a distance with respect.

***My own campus has some Christian groups that use all kinds of glitz and hype to get people to come to their actitivites. My group just uses old fashion friendliness and we accept everyone as is, and are glad they came. It is kind of different here, as we have a HUGE LDS (Mormon) influence, and the Baptists stay away from the other protestants because we are "too liberal". We do more activities with the Islamic students, than other Christians, outside from the people we share space with, and the Catholics. We don't have a Hillel group, but at a neighboring campus the Lutherans get together with them, and we're invited***

Anyway, you're a good friend to be aware and concerned of this Senusret, and just be supportive and understanding, which I am sure you are already. I am so sorry we didn't get to hang out when I was in D.C.! I'll be back though!

Well basically, my cousin who was like a brother to me is caught up in that church. When I was in high school, one of the girls in my classes was involved in that church and would basically make it her daily ritual to invite us to church. I told her that I would come to hers if she came to mine, and she flat out told me that she would go to hell if she came to mine.

Long story short, when we (my family) flew up to Howard for my cousin's graduation eight years ago, all the money that his mom was sending him to pay for a nice apt and car and everything OBVIOUSLY went to the church, b/c he was living in a piece of crap apartment with two other people from the church, and he said that he was giving the money to the church to help further their ministry. My family was like, WTF?! Fast forward six years....he, for whatever reason, distanced himself from the church, and he was 'cool' again--he could talk about things other than the ICOC, and he didn't look at you like u were going to hell if you attended a different church. Last year, he decided to get back up into the church again, and he did what I consider the most inconsiderate thing--I moved to Atlanta from Miami by myself in July 2003. I asked him in April to help me drive the moving truck with my stuff in it, and he agreed. THE NIGHT BEFORE I WAS SUPPOSED TO LEAVE.....he comes to my apartment and is like, "Well my pastor feels that it's not a good idea for me to go to Atlanta with you to help you move. Good luck." Then he walks off to his car, and drives away.

I'm still not over that....and after that happened, I was convinced that this church is a cult.

A friend of mine from work was caught up in a church like this. Not sure if it's the same one. He wasn't allowed to drink, watch TV or go to movies. He couldn't wear short sleeves or short pants. The church actually helped him out of a bad time in his life. He came from a rich family and had developed a major drug problem. The church, while controlling all aspects of his life, did actually help him clean up. I'm pretty sure it wasn't the ICOC because he would occasionally do things with us after work like play raquetball.

Then he met a girl and started getting laid on a regular basis and became completely normal again. He was also thoroughly pissed at his "church" for being so controlling. Personally, I think they helped him through a rough time in their life. Some folks are weak at some points in their life and need a controlled regimen like that. For him, it was a good thing.

Okay...I know this is a serious thread...but I chuckled @ this line here.....
:p

lol lol lol so did i

Thanks for that! I was actually going to post the same thing until I read your post. :D

I'm a member of the church of Christ as well. :)

Thanks for the stories so far, folks....I have a friend who is in this now, and I had some concerns.

Are you an instrumentalist or vocalist?

My guess is vocalist;)

CoC churns out tons of vocal majors.

I know you said you've been to the websites, but have you checked out the Delphi message boards that run by former ICOCers? You'll get some interesting stories from people who have "been on the inside" so to speak.

I've only had one encounter with the ICOC many years ago. I was at a laundromat washing clothes for me and my uncle who had downs syndrome and this girl about my age struck up a conversation. She could not BELIEVE I was washing some man's (I was like, dude, it's not 'some man', it's my uncle!" )unmentionables. She would turn her head when I folded his BVDs. It was pretty strange. Anyway, she invited me to her church and talked about how wonderful it was and all of the young people and how they didn't buy buildings because it was a waste of money and they just met in convention centers and hotels around the city, etc. I kept telling her that I had a church, was pretty happy with it, but she kept going on and on like we were going to be best friends. I finnally told her I would try to make it one day and she asked for my phone number. I don't give random people my phone number, so I wrote down a wrong number and left the laundromat. Wouldn;t you know it about a month later I was in the drive thru at Taco Bell and she is in the window! She was like, Hey!! I called your number and they said you didn't live there!! Give me your number! Wanna go to church with me?!?! " I told her I put down the wrong area code (Lord forgive me for the lies!) got my Mexican pizza and got the heck out of there!

A good friend of mine from college got mixed up with them briefly, but she quickly saw that they were not for her. She was a young military wife and pretty new mother in a strange location when one of the other wives approached her about coming to a bible study. She agreed and people were super nice and friendly. They brought gifts for the baby, cooked dinner for her family one night and brought it over and seemed genuinely interested in her life. She got freaked out when they said something like "the only reason you need friends outside of the church is to convince them to come to church", that her baptism was not valid and told her (since she didn't work) that she should have bake sales to raise money to donate to the church if her husband did not agree to her tithing. The final thing that said this is not good is a call she got of out the blue from another college friend who was heavily involved in the church. The conversation was pretty general for about 5 minutes and then, according to my friend, the other person asked her something about church and my friend said it seemed like a set up. Almost like someone said hummm....this person went to Spelman college, checked a database or something and realized that this other person went to Spelman at the same time and they were the same major. My friend said it really appeared that the entire reason for her call was to get her to further committ to the church. She stopped going around them after that.

I think it is important to realize that people getting closer to God, changing things in their life (like having sex outside of marriage) doesn't mean they have joined a cult, but most of the things I have read about the ICOC says "cult".

I'm sorry your friend joined a cult

Thanks Eclipse. You know, I had not even thought about Delphi forums...I will search for them now.

Also, yes.....I feel you on that final point. I am trying not to let me personal feelings on organized religion get in the way of determining whether this "church" is abusive to my friend.

Well, he's slipping away.....I'm kinda sad, distraught, upset, angry.....but there's nothing I can do.

I sorta just want to cut him loose because I don't think I can handle this cult (cuz that's what it is) swallowing him up. He doesn't even realize that he's just regurgitating what the church tells him.

He is the type of person that makes anything his God except what counts. If it sounds good, he goes with it, whether it is school work, obsession with "the right schools", his GLO, his pursuit of another GLO....and now, I think HE thinks that he has actually made the right decision and settled down, but he doesn't realize that GOD is not driving his friends away -- it is the judgmental dogma that his church teaches. He thinks that he is better than anyone who isn't Christian. And the only true Christians are in HIS church. Argh.

I'm just so sad that there's nothing I can do.