Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Hearings
 

I am sitting here watching the Senate question Donald Rumsfeld and other top military leaders about the Iraqi prisoner abuse and I want to throw up. Here are all of these Senators (white) talk about how the conduct of those few American soldiers is un-American and goes against the values of America. However, I can't help but think back on how this "great" country of ours came to be. Through the slaughtering of millions of Native people to the horrors of over 400 years of enslavement of Africans, our "great" country was built. Violence has been at the cornerstone of our democracy. It's not ironic that young men and women would perpetrate the same kind of violence and inhumane treatment that America is synonymous for. It's kills me that they care more about how they treat citizens of foreign nation than they do about the treatment of citizens right inside our own country. Let's we forget that while Blacks make up less that 20% of the U.S population, almost 50% of Blacks are incarcerated or under some form of community control. And what really ticks me off, is how they are now considering paying reparations or as Sec. Rumsfeld put it "compensation" to those prisoners abused. African slaves build this country on their backs, but we have yet to see a dime! Several senators said that this scandal has hurt America's "credibility". Hell, America has never been that credible to me! I want to close by saying that inhumane acts built this nation and continue to be perpetrated today. When are we gonna have a Senate hearing about that?

I agree with you NUPE 100%. The sad thing is, if it wasn't election year, none of these hearings would be taking place- if they did, they wouldn't be as widely publicized as they have been the past few weeks.

Re: Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Hearings
 

so why was i thinking the EXACT same thing when watching this mess????

ok so at which point did you get up to either throw something at the tv or laugh at the entire facade.

"ah, secretary rumsfeld, that was a very STRONG statement".

***smh***

like your signature says, cocane is a helluva drug :rolleyes:

Bush is killing us!
 

I firmly believe that those soldiers did what they were told to do. This stuff has been happening for awhile and it has been ignored (and maybe even applauded) by the powers to be. Now the soldiers are being scapegoated because it got out.

The bottom line is we have given even our allies a good reason to back off from us, and we have seriously undermined our reputation in the world. We are now more vunerable than ever for terroist attacks.

But yes, the comment that this is un-American behavior cracked me up, because like you said this mess has been happening to Black folx for years.

Re: Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Hearings
 

I second.

Election day is when? LOL
 

BUSH and ALL OF HIS LYING AZZ COHORTS NEED TO GO!

Re: Election day is when? LOL
 

AMEN!

The Army general who first investigated prisoner abuse in an Iraqi prison told Congress on Tuesday the mistreatment resulted from faulty leadership, a "lack of discipline, no training whatsoever and no supervision

Say what? Were they NOT grown a* men and women? Soldiers without discipline, no training? Say what? how is that possible? Maybe the military isn't as viable as we thought.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...prisoner_abuse

CAIRO, Egypt - A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site showed the beheading of an American civilian in Iraq (news - web sites), and said the execution was carried out by an al-Qaida affiliated group to avenge the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...rican_beheaded

Re: Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Hearings
 

OK..well of course I"ll be the voice of dissent here..surprise surprise right?? ;)

Ok, it is a fact that there are a large number of Blacks incarcerated or under some form of community control...but who's fault is that? Yes there have been and continue to be obstacles that confront the black community...but surely you aren't blaming the "system" or "the man" for the high rates of incarceration are you?? And yes, my country was built by the hands of my ancestors...but you know what..I am proud that my ancestors paved the way for me to live in the GREATEST NATION IN THE WORLD!! Because if that hadn't happened..I'd be somewhere in Africa..and while I love my culture, history and anecestors..but I'll pass....

So NUPE4LIFE...its easy to say a bunch of things that sound good..but what are you really saying...should we have a congressional hearing...reparations...WHAT??? The bottom line is that THE ONLY thing that will change the current status quo of the African American community is US GETTING OURSELVES TOGETHER!! HANDOUTS FROMT HE GUBMENT, A HEARING, REPARATIONS ETC WON'T CHANGE A THING!! It will only be a temporary fix. We as a community need to get our homes in order before we start blaming everybody and their momma for our problems and/or pointing out things that happened 2-300 years ago...

And let me say..I'm not attacking you personally..its just this type of thinking in the black community really gets me heated...as if the long time GCers didn't know that about me :p


PS - Since America isn't credible..and such a terrible place...have u ever thought about going back to the Motherland?? You know..that place where BLACK PEOPLE are still being enslaved, degraded, beaten etc to this day.. by other BLACK PEOPLE :rolleyes:

Re: Election day is when? LOL
 

YAY!! and then we can replace them with more lying cohorts!! :D

Love_spell...The FIRST woman PREZODENT of DE USA!
 

Basically. Until YOU run! ;) :D

Re: Love_spell...The FIRST woman PREZODENT of DE USA!
 

LOL! Gurrl couldn't pay me enough! And besides..no one would vote for me...some people say I'm a little "controversial" in my thinking..picture dat..:p

Re: Re: Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Hearings
 

I think you would make a great politician seeing out of his 12 sentence paragraph, you focused 3 sentences in which he never asked for reparations or made excuses as to why some of the black community is in the state it is. ;)

I believe he was making and IMO did make a good correlation as to how we can be upset or shocked at how these prisoners are being treated by our "great" country when this treatment was how our "great" country developed. I understand your dissent with reparations and misbehaving blacks, but that's not the issue here. Do you dissent with his correlation?

Re: Re: Re: Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Hearings
 

Uhh..my post..so I can focus on what I want..Thank you very much ;)

And yes in your opinion he did a good job showing the correlation..in my opinion his logic was faulty..but opinions are like rectums everybody has one..so to answer you YES I dissent with his correlation

I think its interesting how the media will show what our soldiers did to the Iraqi's..but won't show the brutality of these radical muslims who chant Ali Akbar (God is Great) throughout the whole beheading. Say what you want about what we did...but those soldiers are still alive. In my opinion..the media would rather focus on things that make my President look bad and attempt to make the war look like it was a bad idea..instead of show something i.e. the sick and twisted nature of these crazy Muslims.. that would reinforce why we needed to take the war to them ...

I know of one site www.glennbeck.com (on page 2) that shows the beheading in its entirety...

You and me both. I'm not understanding why this is not getting the amount of press/concern/outrage as the "abuse" photos did. I'll be the first person to say that wrong is wrong - regardless as to who's doing it (Bush, Iraqis, whoever). But I just can't understand why no one is jumping on this. Only the next few days will tell I guess.

I couldn't watch the entire video. To hear him scream like that was unbearable. :(

God bless his family during this time of grief.

Who is Ali Akbar? Did you know that some of the soldiers were murdered? Did you actually watch the commission? Rumsfeld said that the worst is yet to come. There has been reports of murders in the prison from different organizations and when the Red Cross goes public, you know something is terribly wrong.

As for Berg, I hope they catch the bastards who did it. They deserved to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Ali Akbar is something Muslims say it means in English that "God is Great" And yes I actually watched the commission, but I have a job so I did not see it in its entirety.... but none of that changes my perspective..the American Media has a BIASED way of reporting the news...when it doesn't fit their agenda..they won't report it...

Wrong. As for the big bad liberal media, I'm watching CNN and they been covering the murder as much as the tortures tape. So your thesis that the media is not covering the murder because it does not fit their "agenda" is proved to be wanting.

Seeing as though you posted what you wanted on a public message board, you are open to be questioned or addressed about your post. Don't be so sensitive. ;)

Since I enjoy your dialogue so much, could you please elaborate on why you dissent with his correlation?

In another thread you state: "I believe a woman's past sexual history says alot about her...and should be admissible..." so you can correlate the current actions of a woman to her past actions. However, you can't correlate our country's current actions to our past? As a police officer, you've never considered a criminal's past actions to his current? Just trying to see where you are coming from. Leaving out political affilations, race comments, whatever and just focusing on relating past events to current.

Is today not "day one" on this coverage though ? How can you compare one day (and one channel at that)?

Let's look at this again this time next week(at least) and see.

Shoot, the Marcus Dixon case is JUST now getting some press although it has been going on for months.

After having a chapter Soror speak about her year in Irag, I can't say that agree with how our soldiers are being handled concering this "scandal". I don't agree with the treatment of the prisoners, but I can't begin to understand what our soldiers are going through to make them act this way.

I too think the constant showing of the prisoner abuse is excessive. Then again it would be kind of childish for the media to play the "they did this, so we did that" game. :rolleyes:

As our President, Bush has to take the good-capturing Saddam, tax cuts, etc- along with the bad-this horrible and unwarranted war-during his term.

Seeing that I only get BBC, Sky News, SABC Africa and CNN, I can only analyzed the 4 network. SABC Africa will say it on a passing comment as they will concentrate more on African stories. Sky News is concentrating on the alleged murders perpetrated by British Troops in basra. BBC and CNN is concentrating on the murder.

Watching CNN over the conflict, trust me, they are not biased toward the Bush admin. What kind of methodology are we going to use to see if the media is biased or not?

ETA: Intersting that none of the media have even touched the usage of mercenaries in Iraq. Did you konw that many of the mercenaries used by the CPA were former South African Secret Police members during the apartheid era. There were also people who in implicated in the rape of Bosnia and Croatia.

quote:
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Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
Ali Akbar is something Muslims say it means in English that "God is Great"
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well i guess u should send an email to the New York post cause apparently they have it wrong too...unless you were confused because of my spelling...

http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/20688.htm
Then, one of the hooded fanatics reads a lengthy statement denouncing President Bush as a "dog of the Christians" and vowing revenge for the prison abuse scandal.

"Nation of Islam. Is there any excuse left to sit idly by? And how can free Muslims sleep soundly as they see Islam being slaughtered, honor bleeding, photographs of shame and reports of satanic degradation of the people of Islam, men and women in Abu Ghraib prison," says the speaker.

As the tape continues, one of the masked men pushes Berg sideways to the ground and he begins to scream.

To shouts of "Allahu akbar" (God is great), Zarqawi thrusts a large knife into his neck and saws off his head.

With all due respect, you were wrong. Ali and Allahu are two entirely different words in Arabic.

With all due respect..I noted I probably confused the spelling, and please don't confuse me with a Muslim scholar..

BOTTOM LINE these crazed lunatics are chanting God is great while beheading a man!! Whether they were saying Ali Babbu or Ali wanna cracker..this is my point!

Me sensitive?? u must be new to GC sweetie :p If I were sensitive I would have stopped posting here about 500 posts ago..me being the lone supporter of an argument is the norm on GC....and thats fine by me;)

As far as Nupe4life's post that you're asking about..one of the things he said was that America was synonymous with violence..or something like that...and yes we have partly a violent history..but I don't think that is what we are ALL about and what we stand for..so to say that this should be expected because of America's past is just faulty logic in my opinion..

No, that would be Arabic scholar. If you are a Christian and speak Arabic, you would also you Allah in describing God.

What exactly is your point? yes they said it and they are lunatic. ARe you implying somethng about Islam?

Don't let the post count fool ya. ;) I'm quite the observer and would rather do that than bash black people, rant and rave about a love affair with Bush or catch the holier than thou ghost every time someone brings up something concering race, religion or politics.

As far as being the "lone supporter of an argument on GC", how you get your thrills is your business. :p My intent was never to argue. :D

That's what I thought. Thanks for the dialogue!

Whew..glad you got that off your chest! Hope you feel better now!
And this dialogue is exactly why i love this country so much..because we can have it!! And I guess you can call it arguing...I just call it disagreeing. ;)

>>OK back to being holier than though, bashing black people, and having a love affair with Bush!:p

Really? Ok, I'm not an Arabic scholar either ;) .. If you want to see my point..re-read my posts and don't get bogged down over a mis-spelling...then ya just might get it.

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
Is today not "day one" on this coverage though ? How can you compare one day (and one channel at that)?

Let's look at this again this time next week(at least) and see.

Shoot, the Marcus Dixon case is JUST now getting some press although it has been going on for months.

Yes this was my point Hk74...The press reports what they want to..in order to push their agenda... glad you're paying attention to my posts and not just dissecting them to try to disagree! LOL...gotta love GC!

What is the bottom line in your statement? I really want to know. What I've read is that the lunatic were saying something as they behead the man. And as you point out, it does not matter what they say. Is there more to this statement? If you implied that they are murderer and should be prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law, I agree with you. If not, please tell me what you mean.

I just saw the screen shots and it was sickening. That's all I have to say about that.

Moe.ron she said her point one page ago.....



but I think it got lost in the back of forth of the Arabic/Muslim scholar comments. :o :rolleyes:

Question for everyone though.....
How should we (the US) respond to:
(a) the prison-abuse allegations
(b) Mr. Berg's beheading

and to address N4L's initial comments, I don't think our government has even said "I'm sorry", "we were wrong then", or even "my bad" when it comes to the disgusting, evil misuse of our people (both black and native american). Given that and the fact that this country was built literally on our blood, sweat, and tears, you are asking "some folks" to re-arrange the foundation of their way of life - and that ain't happening.

(a) the prison-abuse allegations

The perpetrators should be prosecuted as war criminals. If found guilty, they should go to jail. They should be chareged for violating the Geneva Convention and the Code of Military Justice (or something like that).

(b) Mr. Berg's beheading

They should be brought before the Iraqi court, once it is established. He might be American, but he was killed in Iraqi soiled. since he was neither a military personal nor a "civilian contractors", international law mandate that the sovereignty of this case squarely belong to the Iraqi court.

What is the price for Regular Unleaded through Supreme Unleaded in the State Of California now???

I guess that answers some questions as to why some of this lunacy is happening.

Believe me, this craziness can end literally overnight with a daisy-cutter or a nice small nuke...

I say use it surgically...

Where's Rudey when you need him!!!

Re: Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Hearings
 

I think what you are saying is valid, but it applies to humans in general. Humans, given the outlet and excuse are readily violent and stupid. We rarely need a reason for it and the veneer of civilization that we so cherish is very thin. Let someone go hungry for a few days and see how civilized they stay.

Ona tangential note: I remember talking to a friend that went to prison for a few years. I was saying, look, there is a certain morality in prisons when they kill child rapists etc.

And he answered not at all, its just a valid excuse to kill someone with no consequences. :(

There were more than just pictures of nudity taken of these POW's... some of the women were brutally raped. The pictures ofcourse too graphic to show on any news station or apparantly to mention. Their faces uncovered and pictures taken of them being raped or other forced sexual acts by OUR soldiers. In a culture that a woman's body is seen as something to be kept reserved and only that for her husband to see...to be raped out side like some type of animal and your picture taken at the same time that is going on is probably equal or worst than death.
You have be honest enough to look at from both sides.