why I'm voting for John Kerry
 

Because he was in Vietnam. Somebody who was in Vietnam should be president. They got treated like shit when they came back, and it took several acts of congress for them to even get basic stuff. I think I'm pretty tough mentally, but from pictures, books, movies, etc I've seen about Vietnam, I think I would have gone insane. War is Hell, and that war... I don't know what to say about it.

Okay, and now I have a question...how is Bush going to attack Kerry's military service record? :eek: :confused:
Kerry=Three Purple Hearts
Bush=awol from the Air Guard.

yea- i bet they have tried to attack his war record but it wasn't too successful... i bet they'll try to stay away from now on..

as far as why i'm voting for him... women's rights..military stance... education funding... gay/lesbian rights....

i just can't take 4 more years....

Re: why I'm voting for John Kerry
 

AWOL? Says who?

And "treated like shit when the came back"? By whom? People like Kerry is whom.

-Rudey

Re: why I'm voting for John Kerry
 

Interesting. I know a LOT of Viet Nam Veterans, courtesy of having a much older brother (I'll be 99 years old, and they'll still call me Baby Sister!). NOT ONE of them came back without some semblence of a drug problem. I praise the Lord that my brother turned his life over to Christ and was delivered of his addictions, but I've been to the funerals of too many men who died with a needle in the arm. These were all upper-middle/middle-middle class men, not your "average druggie". I will be the first to admit that this sample is not perpetuated throughout the country, but this is my experience.

As for Kerry's one Purple Heart, please remember that his commanding officer was against him receiving it, but they were given fairly liberally at the time.

Between Kerry's flip-flopping on the issues and his history of plaguerism, I'd vote for Nadar first.



ps - this is going to be one ugly election!!

Re: why I'm voting for John Kerry
 

Re: why I'm voting for John Kerry
 

just how someone who dodged the draft was president...ah, it all makes sense now..... :rolleyes: it doesn't matter to anyone what their military background is......it's all about their political background. so dems, get off your high horse about kerry being so great in military services and bush being crap/awol. your beloved clinton was a draft dodger.

next?


apologizing early for generalizing about democrats......i try to play nice, honest....but sometimes.......

I love this web site:

http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbuti...rhimanyway.com

hahahah that site is freaking CLASSIC i love it!

now- to clarify some things.... i am not alllll about kerry- he definately has his downfalls and i want to vote for nader but i'm still voting for kerry anyway... b/c i just can't take bush anymore! !!! !!!!!

as far as the draft dodging... purple heart debate yadda yadda... i really don't know too much about it- i mean... i definately don't think bush was in the right... but kerry is kind of "glorifying" his war credibility... but he has too- especially if he wants to win...

i mean... if he didn't- then people who are upset about the war and the stuff going on now- wouldn't vote for him...

its politics... :rolleyes:


lol- good point mon about clinton i think he was a good president and great for the economy and i like him... but he had his moments too

Co-sign!
Better yet, I am not voting for Kerry, I am voting AGAINST Bush! :D

Haha, I think that's most of us liberals. There's a community on orkut "AnyoneButBush in 2004" with over 3000 members, and I think that sums it up for many Democrats. (Side note, found out today that Kerry is a member of orkut! He sent me a message, along with everyone else in AnyoneButBush.) I'm voting for Nader because Kerry will obviously win in MA.

Re: Re: why I'm voting for John Kerry
 

I don't really want to nitpick and this isn't an attack but from what I understand, Kerry received three purple hearts, not one. One for each "wound" that was inflicted on Kerry. Whether these were "life threatening wounds" or not, I can not say because I was not there. But I do understand that in this era there was a lot of frustration from officers in regards to soldiers receiving the purple heart. I read an article where Kerry's commanding officer at the time said that purple hearts were "coming down in boxes." Yet, no matter how minor or how serious these wounds were, he received purple hearts for them.

My grandfather told me a story about how he was first wounded in Korea (a leg wound that put him out of service for a few weeks) and he was told he wouldn't receive a purple heart for it, and I guess it was no big deal to him. But not long after that he was shot through the mouth (knocking out all of his teeth) as well as taking a bullet to his spinalcord (paralyzing him), he found out that he was going to receive two purple hearts for those wounds as well as another for when he was wounded in the leg.

Service is service, wounded or not, purple heart or not.

I thought about replying to this post, but after reading the first one, I realized it is for the exclusive use of those under 21 and with a limited ability to read, observe, discuss, apply deductive reasoning, and have limited life experiences.
What an ill-informed post - Kerry went to Vietnam and was treated like shit - my ass, kid. The whole mistreatment thing was so freaking overblown it might as well be a fairy tale.
Here's the short story and the truth: Soldiers often used San Francisco Airport as their entry point upon returning from Nam, and a very small group of hippie homeless used it to stand in groups and make smart remarks about being baby killers to these young soldiers - most of them YOUR age - who had just come back from a war they had been DRAFTED for. You would not know what a draft was, since there is now a volunteer army.
Anyway, this was covered by the press and other hippie losers did the same thing, but the effort was weak and disorganized. These scum were usually tripped out or stoned and didn't know whether to scratch their watches or wind their asses.

This was MY era, and I know what I'm talking about.

John Kerry came from wealth and privelege, and upon his return, he joined the V.V.A.W. and used that group in a cynical fashion to launch a political career. He made outrageous accusations against his own fellow vets because he knew that would put him in the public eye. Never mind that none of his accusations were proved.
This is a man who has never worked a day in his life outside elective office. He married his first wife and used her huge fortune to get himself elected, and he jumped on a dead Republican's wife after dumping his first one so that he could get hooked up with some SERIOUS money - Mrs. Kerry's first husband John Heinz was a Republican!
This election is not about who served in Vietnam. John Kerry himself in 1992 said that all discussions about who served and who did not were NO LONGER RELEVANT - this in defense of Bill Clinton. I agreed with him back then and I still take that position, but apparently it is just one more Kerry flip-flop.

So, if one is required to have served in Vietnam in order to be President, can I be a fly on the wall when Hillary Clinton is informed of this? That oughta be fun. Of course, I'm sure you will be voting for HER opponent if they happened to serve in Vietnam, right? Ladies and gentlemen, I will send a letter to John McCain right now. Talk about someone who was treated like "shit". I guess if that is the criteria, he'll win in a landslide.

I have absolutely no problem with Kerry's service. I do not care if he deserved that medal or he didn't because I, as an American, am impressed by anyone who serves their country.

I do have a problem with what Kerry did after the war. I find that to be so insulting and treacherous that it wipes away the respect I had for him being there.

http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm

And I think that is how a lot of people might feel as well. It's not as much the issue of draft dodging, fighting wars, etc. because McCain would be president and Clinton would never have served even one term.

-Rudey

No matter your views or your beliefs, it's not right to deduct that people under the age of 21 have a limited ability to read, observe and apply deductive reasoning. This is a forum to discuss, not bash. There are many people under the age of 21 who have had many a life experience, some limited, some not.

For the sake of your argument, I hope that you will qwell the semi-attacks next time. I've read this under 21, college-educated stereotype in your posts more than once. All college-educated persons should be above that, no?

Applause for damasa!

Honestly this election will be like most others in the past: a choice between two evils. I don't like either one. They're both sketchy silver spoon politicians. What else can you expect here?

I'm not under 21.

Incorrect generalizations don't help your argument.

It was MY era, too. What country were you living in? What campus were you on? Did you watch any TV?

Sure Kerry came from wealth -- so did Bush. Fact is that The President apparantly used his family's position to procure a hard to get slot in the National Guard. (Nothing against the Guard, it's an honorable organization, but damn few of them went to SE Asia). Kerry at least served in a regular unit in combat.

Re: Re: why I'm voting for John Kerry
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AlphaGamDiva
[B]just how someone who dodged the draft was president...ah, it all makes sense now..... :rolleyes: it doesn't matter to anyone what their military background is......it's all about their political background. so dems, get off your high horse about kerry being so great in military services and bush being crap/awol. your beloved clinton was a draft dodger.

Not saying military record should be the main reason to vote for somebody, but Clinton was busy being a RHODE SCHOLAR, wasn't like he was chillin in Canada

My .02
 

While watching Letterman the other night, I believe Andy Richter said it best: "You're at a bar, it's last call, the lights have come up, and it's time to choose from the last two whores left." (Something to this effect.)

Personally, I think we're screwed either way...not much of a choice...but your arguing is very entertaining. ;)

aj

All military records aside, I'm voting for Kerry because in the past 3 years, Bush has truly come to frighten me, much more so than when he ran in 2000.

He is an absolutely horrific manager of social and fiscal policy. His "trusted advisors" are to me, absolutely terrifying. These people have literally taken the country from the best it's ever been to the absolute worst.

And before someone tells me I dont know what I'm talking about, I'll just say I am indeed over 21, and have a degree in economics, so I at least know enough to know that the economy is cyclical. That being said, I think that a shift this extreme (from the largest surplus in US history to the largest deficit in US history) in such a short period of time is incredibly irresponsible, and I am absolutely dreading what the condition of this country will be in another 4 years under GW.

How about a little perspective.

Not many men really wanted to get drafted.

Men who were in college -- in good standing -- were entitled to deferment(s) until they finished. Both Clinton and Cheney took advantage of that.

Early in the war, men who were married with children were entitled to deferments. Cheney took advantage of that, also.

Other ways to keep from being drafted were to join one of the active branches of the military or the National Guard or Reserve. There were only so many slots available until they reached their authorized strength. There were long waiting lists. Bush apparantely used his family influence to get one of those slots. Frankly, a lot of guys did that, too.

Kerry, of course, served in the Navy with some distinction.

Nobody broke any laws. You can make your own decision about each, but to me Kerry took the high road -- the rest played the game like millions of other young men of my generation.

In the overall scope of things, it was a non-issue until each party decided to try to exploit it one way or the other. It appears that both have tried to back off because it was going nowhere.

ETA an updated joke from a few years ago: What's the difference between Jane Fonda and (take your pick, Dan Quale, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney)?

Answer: Jane Fonda's been to Vietnam.

And in terms of Economics, I'm sorry to say you're mistaken. The global Economy is largely being driven by the US deficit and the current situation with Chinese banks.

-Rudey

Re: why I'm voting for John Kerry
 

Considering how the Bush Administration went after Max Cleland, a triple amputee Vietnam War Veteran and the youngest person to ever serve as the head of the VA, and called him unpatriotic for voting against one version of the resolution to go to War with Iraq, I'm not putting it past Bush to do anything. However, I really liked it when they got Saxby Chambliss, a man that deferred from going to the Vietnam War FOUR times because a "football injury", to question John Kerry's military record. Why is it that President Bush can't find someone who actually went to war to attack John Kerry's military record?!?!

Re: Re: why I'm voting for John Kerry
 

I think Max will take his old seat back. Saxby isn't very popular right now but not as unpopular as Gov Purdue. I think good ole Sonny ruined some things for the Georgia Republicans. I guess we will know for sure come November. To bad Max can't get his old seat back till the 2006 elections.

Re: Re: why I'm voting for John Kerry
 

They're not attacking his military record. Again, Clinton, a draft dodger, was president and McCain, who served and sustained heavy injuries, never had a shot. It's about what happened after the war.

-Rudey

I think if Max really wanted to run, he would do it now. The Georgia Senate seat is totally gone even though the Democrats have fielded two different candidates.

Re: Re: why I'm voting for John Kerry
 

Kerry 'Unfit to be Commander-in-Chief', Say Former Military Colleagues
By Marc Morano
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
May 03, 2004

(CNSNews.com) - Hundreds of former commanders and military colleagues of presumptive Democratic nominee John Kerry are set to declare in a signed letter that he is "unfit to be commander-in-chief." They will do so at a press conference in Washington on Tuesday.

"What is going to happen on Tuesday is an event that is really historical in dimension," John O'Neill, a Vietnam veteran who served in the Navy as a PCF (Patrol Craft Fast) boat commander, told CNSNews.com . The event, which is expected to draw about 25 of the letter-signers, is being organized by a newly formed group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

"We have 19 of 23 officers who served with [Kerry]. We have every commanding officer he ever had in Vietnam. They all signed a letter that says he is unfit to be commander-in-chief," O'Neill said.

Full article: http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewSpecialR...20040503a.html

We'll see if this makes it to the mainstream media.

If you had read my post, you'd see I wasn't referring to the global economy. I was referring to the DOMESTIC economy, which has been horrifically mismanaged by the bush administration.

You seem like a pretty smart guy Rudey, so I'm sure you're familiar with the textbook economics behind fiscal policy during a recession. When the country is facing a large deficit, you do not cut taxes. You RAISE taxes. This provides the federal goverment more spending power and funding to drive social programs and the commercial industry. The boost in spending to the commercial sector in turn drives higher levels of income and employment, and helps boost the economy out of recession.

A) US and Global are tied together.

B) There are fears in terms of the deficit by some but it's not considered the biggest deal. Yes it should be addressed and fixed, but it isn't considered an economic disaster.

C) I am an incredibly smart guy

-Rudey

AnchorAlum, I think you have absolutely no grounds to judge our life experiences. Just because we are young does not mean we are unintelligent or we haven't lived through a lot. Behavior like yours is a prime reason the youth of American are turning away from politics - because a bunch of spoiled old white people don't care what THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY thinks.

I think we all know I'm voting for Kerry, but what's more telling is both my Army veteran father and my Army veteran grandfather are as well. My dad is very independent and normally decides close to the election, but he's irate at the Bush administration's policies on several issues. I'm very confident my mom will also be voting Kerry. If you don't care about me, care about the fact that my upper class parents are sick and tired of having the WASP mentality imposed on the rest of the country.

As for economics: nobody can talk about it anymore until they've taken a monetary policy class, so, Hi Rudey and damasa, let's play.

Sounds like your dad and I think alike on this one. Although it's still a long time until November.

Given the fact that my professors wrote the books you glanced at and nobel prize laureates wrote my recommendations, I would shutup h-iz-o.

-Rudey

Yes, we know, yes Rudey you are indeed the smartest of the smart. And we all have observed that you are so smart that you have to bring up just how astoundingly smart you are and how amazing your university is in.... well just about every thread you post in where your views are even semi-challenged. (also, just as an aside, we've all had professors who have written books and have won awards. Thats what tenured professors do. Publish their work. Win awards. Bring in funding and a distinguished reputation for the university.)

I think you're nice Rudey, I really really do, but can we please save it? This is a thread about the election. Can we ride that topic out?

As for the earlier post, US and global are indeed tied together, but until the global market starts to drive domestic revenues and employment in the US economy in a significant way, then I am not particularly concerned with how the US deficit is boosting the economies of other nations. I would like to see the federal government doing what it is supposed to do - collecting taxes and in turn using those funds to drive the economy by providing employment and jobs in both the public and private sectors.

I am also concerned with the fact that the budget deficit is so severe that there is no money to fund programs that I believe are critical to the nation. That includes funding for schools, public service programs, social security, etc. I am particularly disheartened by Bush no longer funding social service type organizations, instead requesting that religious and faith based organizations take over. I think it's wonderful when religious organizations step in and help in the community, but there is no reason that the government should be relying on them because it would rather spend it's money elsewhere.

Bush is pushing for another tax cut because many people don't realize how much it impacts the economy in a negative way. He's doing it for popularity, and that really annoys me.

My professors write books too. We just spend our money on letting poor middle-class kids like me go here on a scholarship instead of hiring Nobel Prize laureates. :D

a) You brought up how smart I am. If you're gonna ride my nuts, let's not mix facts.

b) In terms of Economics, my school is untouchable. I don't feel like ripping on Syracuse because you seem nice...just misguided.

c) Honestly I would open up some of the simple Economics books again if I were you because you're not making sense. We are tied to the world. Our deficit isn't just better for them, it's helping us. This is all very simple macro. Our growth, our job development and more right now is being fueled by the deficit.

d) You are trying to tie in a million issues into this and pass it off as Economics. You don't like faith based spending - fine. Don't try and turn it into an economic issue.

-Rudey

Our nobel prize laureates win the prize for work they performed a long time ago; until then they usually don't have a ton of money. And Chicago Economics is distinct. It is a whole world unto itself that no undergrad or grad program resembles in the world.

-Rudey
--And you are not poor retardo

Quote - last time I checked, this is a thread about why we're voting for John Kerry. I never said my dislike for faith based programming was "economics" - I said I didn't like that the budget deficit has gotten so severe that as a result, money isn't being allocated where it needs to be, and so Bush is pushing off the "less important" social programs onto someone else's plate so he can try to profit off of other ventures.

And if you're thinking our deficit is making life better here and developing jobs, you're wrong. As of March 2004, 35 of the 50 states have yet to recover the jobs lost since the recession began in March of 2001. This recession continues to have the greatest sustained job losses since the Great Depression. It would be one thing if we were in a real war on a large scale, but we're not. Because the budget is now so tight, funding for non-security discretionary spending (which includes information technology, domestic construction, education, environmental support, etc) has been almost completely eliminated. The only people making money are defense contractors or other contractors who are willing to go abroad to Afghanistan and Iraq, and given the danger, many contractors are no longer willing to do so.

Bush's tax cut package, which was supposed to create roughly 2,700,000 jobs once it was passed, has been a miserable failure, creating only about 700,000 jobs (and checking my Syracuse math, that's a shortfall of 2,000,000 jobs, give or take :) )

Bush's economic policies SUCK. Domestically, we have seen no significant benefit from this absolutely enormous budget deficit.

If you want to keep going, we can continue on to "Reaganomics in the GW Bush administration" and why neoconservative economic policy based on the idea of "Greed is Good" doesn't work. Chicago is good, but Syracuse also has a distinguished school of public affairs and I did manage to pick up a thing or two.

Economically none of what you said is right. A bubble burst - when a bubble is created there are jobs being held and money being made that shouldn't be. The system corrected itself.

I'm sorry but this puts me in a position of basically sitting here and going through a lot of material just to try and educate you.

The fact is that the Economy is largely what determines elections. The economy is also generally not controlled by presidents. Dole had a hard time convincing the country that Clinton's economic measures were bad and Kerry is having an incredibly difficult time doing the same with Bush.

-Rudey

I had lunch with a Nobel Prize winner for Economics in December. Am I smart now? :p

Actually, I learned about the role the economy plays in democracies.

If you would refer back to my original post, I did say that I do have an understanding of the cyclical nature of the economy. And yes, I do know that the economy is generally what determines elections - "It's the economy, stupid."

However, that being said, there are policies that, depending on the political stance of the President, take a higher priority. For Democrats, it's raising taxes and increasing the role of the government in the activities of it's constituents. For Republicans, it's generally the opposite - cut taxes and decrease regulations for large industries.

For Bush, those policies are identical almost Ronald Reagan's.
They believe that the state cannot improve the lot of the disadvantaged poor by education and welfare programs financed through taxation. Their solution is to massively to decrease the taxation and regulation of corporations and of the rich, replacing progressive taxation wherever possible with low flat rates. The role of the state in the provision of education and welfare is reduced and replaced as much as possible by private charity.

The idea is that leaving matters to "market forces" releases the constraints on entrepreneurs and generates new wealth, the benefits of which "trickle down" to the poor and improve their lot. Which of course, does not really work.

You dont need to educate me. I'm doing fine on my own.