Tillman not a hero?
 

ESPN.com news services

AMHERST, Mass. -- A University of Massachusetts student has openly criticized Pat Tillman, calling the former NFL player a Rambo-like idiot in the school paper.

The column in question was submitted by graduate student Rene Gonzalez and published Wednesday in the Daily Collegian. It was titled "Pat Tillman is not a hero: he got what was coming to him."

Gonzalez writes that Tillman was a "Rambo" who probably acted out of "nationalist patriotic fantasies." In his own neighborhood in Puerto Rico, according to Gonzalez, Tillman would not have been considered a hero, but a "pendejo," or idiot.

The column drew harsh criticism from many on campus. University president Jack Wilson says the op-ed piece was "disgusting, arrogant and intellectually immature."

Tillman, who gave up his NFL career to join the Army Rangers in 2002, was killed in combat one week ago in Afghanistan. The military announced on Wednesday that he has been posthumously promoted to the rank of corporal and awarded the Purple Heart and Meritorious Service Medal.

"You know he was a real Rambo, who wanted to be in the 'real' thick of things," Gonzalez writes in his column, which is posted on the collegiate paper's Web site. "I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures. Well, he got his wish. Even Rambo got shot in the third movie, but in real life, you die as a result of being shot. They should call Pat Tillman's army life 'Rambo 4: Rambo Attempts to Strike Back at His Former Rambo 3 Taliban Friends, and Gets Killed.'"

Gonzalez also says that Tillman's service was not "necessary."

"It wasn't like he was defending the East coast from an invasion of a foreign power. THAT would have been heroic and laudable," Gonzalez writes. "What he did was make himself useful to a foreign invading army, and he paid for it. It's hard to say I have any sympathy for his death because I don't feel like his 'service' was necessary. He wasn't defending me, nor was he defending the Afghani people. He was acting out his macho, patriotic crap and I guess someone with a bigger gun did him in."

In a letter to its readers Thursday, the Daily Collegian says Gonzalez' opinion in no way reflects that of the newspaper's editorial board. A column by one of the editors praising Tillman's sacrifice ran in the paper next to the one by Gonzalez.

"We do not hold back from printing news stories, columns or editorials that may upset our readership -- instead, we seek to both inform and stir debate through our publication," the letter, also posted on the Web site, reads. "Our decision to publish Gonzalez's column -- an opinion piece written by a member of our campus community -- is the only way for us to live up to this ideal."

Tillman will be eulogized at a public memorial service in his hometown of San Jose, Calif., early next week, and funeral arrangements are pending.

The body of Tillman arrived at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware on Monday. His brother, Spc. Kevin Tillman, also a Ranger with the 2nd Battalion of the 75th Ranger Regiment, was expected to accompany the body to the funeral home, Lawrence said.

Tillman was killed in a firefight on a road near Sperah, about 25 miles southwest of a U.S. base at Khost.

After coming under fire, Tillman's patrol got out of their vehicles and gave chase, moving toward the spot of the ambush. Beevers said the fighting was "sustained" and lasted 15-20 minutes.

The Cardinals said they will retire Tillman's No. 40 and name the plaza surrounding the new stadium under construction in suburban Glendale the "Pat Tillman Freedom Plaza."

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

are you kidding me? WHere is this guy so I can kick his ass right now. I'll whoop him Rambo style.

I wouldn't love to wrap my fingers around this guy's throat...Rambo like.

It's not even that it's a disgusting piece but that it's just so stupid. Kick this idiot out of the grad program for being so stupid.

-Rudey

Rene Gonzalez should serve this country in the way is able; as target practice for the Rangers.

this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever read.

What an unbelievably ignorant piece of 'journalism'. First, Cpl. Tillman gives up a ridiculous amount of money and financial security to risk his life for what he believed was right enough to do so. Then, he makes the ultimate sacrifice alongside much of his platoon. This country needs more 'Rambos' and less Rene Gonzalezes...


edited for initial swearing

Gonzalez is an idiot.

Send Rene an email.

renegonzalez7@hotmail.com is his email address.

-Rudey

This was in today's Boston Globe:

UMass president criticizes student's column on felled soldier
By Associated Press | April 29, 2004

AMHERST -- A University of Massachusetts graduate student who wrote a campus newspaper column saying former NFL player Pat Tillman was not a hero for being killed while fighting in Afghanistan was sharply criticized Thursday by the school's president.



UMass president Jack Wilson issued a statement saying Rene Gonzalez's comments in The Daily Collegian "are a disgusting, arrogant and intellectually immature attack on a human being who died in service to his country."

In his column, which ran Wednesday on the opinion page and was posted on the newspaper's Web site, Gonzalez called the former Arizona Cardinals safety a "G.I. Joe guy who got what was coming to him."

"That was not heroism," Gonzalez wrote. "It was prophetic idiocy."

His column also criticizes America's military response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Tillman, the San Jose, Calif., native who gave up his NFL career to join the Army Rangers in 2002, was killed in combat April 22 in Afghanistan.

While recognizing Gonzalez's right to free speech, Wilson said the student owes Tillman a "debt of gratitude," and said he should apologize to Tillman's friends and family.

Gonzalez did not respond to telephone and e-mail messages left Thursday by The Associated Press.

This yahoo wouldn't know a hero if Nathan Hale sat in his lap!

Here's a link to the complete article:
http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/.../408f27f0591be

I think the piece is absolute garbage, not even well-written. Probably a way for a mediocre reporter/writer to get his name out there.

Thanks for posting the Globe piece; I didn't even notice it this morning.

He's not a reporter or a writer. Search the net for this guy and he is out there commenting on how evil the US is and all allies of the US - comparisons to Nazi Germany and Hitler all over. What an absolute idiot.

-Rudey

I can understand someone disagreeing with certain military actions. However, this dude takes it entirely too far. He's like those hippies during the Vietnam war that called our soldiers "baby killers". He should be given a complimentary one way ticket out of the US.

I just hope that Cpl. Tillman's family doesn't get wind of this ridiculous piece of cage-liner. (fat chance, right?) They certainly don't need some little know-it-all shit mocking the death of their loved one.

It is a sad day when one man lays down his life for what he believed in and another so lacks the common decency of showing respect for a dead countryman who gave all in the service of our nation. If anything Ranger Pat Tillman grows in the respect and honor of his fellow Americans who will remember that he carried out the words of our founding fathers who pledged "Our lives, our fortunes, our sacred honor". Tillman was a man who deserves our praise and what ever accolades we can bestow on one who has already achieved all. Remember the words "No greater love" and "to lay down his life". By God, I hope I would have the guts to stand up and be counted when my turn to face death comes. On the other hand, what can anyone say about the weasel who who speaks ill of the dead? Moral coward sounds close. Perhaps the most damning might be the very old fashioned but somehow, at least to me, appropriate reference, "I do not know hin, he is no gentleman". I believe the implications are sufficiently eloquent. I trust this persons fellow students will also come to the conclusion that they also do not know him, he is no gentleman. In England it was called being sent into coventry. At West Point it was known as Silenceing. It amounts to the same, we do not know him, therefore we do not acknowledge his existance.
As I said in another post, the words of Henry V seem very right to apply here.
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers. For he who sheds his blood with me this day shall henceforth be my brother.
As a fellow soldier I would be humbly honored to call Pat Tillman my brother. One thing for certain, I will honor my brother's memory.

Very eloquent, Dekeguy.

I have another comment which might not match your prowess and prose.

Some people are just plain stupid. Open mouth, insert foot.

echoing dekeguy's post
 

the inscription on the Memorial Student Center at Texas A&M, a tribute to the Aggies that gave their lives during WWII:

Greater love hath no man than this, to lay down his life for his friends
-John 15:13

Kitso
KS 361

Regardless of all other issues, you don't say "he had it coming" when some one dies in combat. That's just tacky.

Gonzalez was highly inappropriate in making his comments. There's a line between practicing your right to free speech and being ignorant and crude; this "know-it-all shit" crossed the line right into the latter.

*stands up*
*applauds, tears flowing down my face*
*sincerely hopes that I may also be of the same moral fiber*

Holy crap...

I think everyone just agreed on something.

I think with this guy's information being public, he's probably regretting his words -- or getting book offers.

Im preeetty sure hes not getting any book offers.

Search him out on the net and you'll get everything from his contact info to his reviews on amazon.com. The guy is a total jerk and this wasn't some isolated incident once you see what else he's said. He issues an apology saying that all he meant was that Tillman is being treated differently because he's famous. Somehow calling someone rambo and saying he got what he deserved doesn't sound like you were trying to get that message across.

-Rudey

All this idiot and many like him wants is for decent people like us to talk about what a jackass he is. After that last sentence, I refuse to give this fucker another strand of my attention.

At a nice school like that, you'd think they'd teach them how to communicate their intentions effectively through writing. Sounds like a young, encouragable mind that has been led astray by neo-hippy-pinko-commie professors.

He should get to study abroad in North Korea.

:eek:

I admire and respect Tillman for giving up his football deal to go to war in Iraq, but at the same time, I don't think that is any bigger than the other soldiers who give up their families and lives to go fight the war. It's tragic that he died, but I don't think he should be revered more than all of the soldiers that have died in Iraq simply because he played NFL.

RedHotChiO, I may be reading everyone wrong, but I don't think anyone's saying that Pat Tillman's MORE of a hero than anyone else who pays the supreme sacrifice for our country. At least, I think every person who does so is an American hero.

I think that a reason why pat Tillman is getting so much attention as a hero is because professional athletes have been treated as heros, when they are not. I fully realized this on 9-11. No professional athlete is a real hero, unless he does something off of the playing field that is an extraordinary contribution to society. Pat Tillman did that, and showed how trivial athletes really are in society.

While I wish Gen Patton's advice to "let the other ... die for his country" could apply in every case, we need to remember that the down side risk of military service is that, as my old Sergeant Major used to say, "sometimes you earn your money the hard way". By this he meant that a soldier needs to come to grips that the worst might happen and he might have to really lay it on the line. Pat Tillman had much to live for but he died acting to rescue his fellow soldiers. He is a hero in general for volunteering and for being willing to serve his country and its ideals at no matter how great the cost. He is a hero specifically for the actions which won him the Silver Star, a medal not given lightly and requiring very great gallentry and heroism under fire. There is an old Latin phrase that seems appropriate to Pat's sacrifice and one that I think he would both approve and appreciate. Dulce et decorum est pro Patria mori!
When my Uncle went to Viet Nam my Grandmother told him her advice was to do a good job, don't go looking for trouble, and come home safe and sound, BUT, if the worst came to the worst remember that the last thing you do in life is die, so, DO IT WELL. I'd say Pat Tillman did it well!

For the non-latin readers out there....

"Dulce et decorum est pro Patria mori"
is...
"How good and fitting it is to die for ones country"

I think that Tillman puts a face on the military. Since Tillman had a public identity, he has gotten so much attention. In this day and age, it is rare for a celebrity athlete or movie star to serve in the military during a war. It was pretty common back in WWII and the Korean War. I think that makes him exceptional.

wrong.





Very few other soldiers gave up $11MM to go overseas - while family and life are the things all soldiers risk giving up, it is exceptionally rare for a situation such as Tillman's to emerge.

There are very few Rockafellers in military service.

Now, we can argue the merits of money, and its relative worth to each of us, in deciding how big of a sacrifice this is - but the bottom line is that Pat Tillman's situation was amazingly unique, and THAT is why he is considered a hero . . . regardless of the American obsession with sports.

Pat Tillman is a hero. If the world had more Pat Tillman's it would def. be a better place. Somebody should kick this guy in the balls.

I think what Pat Tillman did for our country was an honorable thing. However, he is no more a hero than any of our brothers or sisters who have faught/perished in the war against terror.

I thank them all for their dedication and service to our country, they are all heroes.

They are all heroes to someone. I can easily grant that.

I've been thinking pretty hard about this recently. We tend to overuse words these days. Words like hero. I'm conflicted on its use.

Some would argue, for instance, that all of our fighting men and women in Iraq are heores. What about the seven who are charged with prisoner abuse?

If you die in battle doing some extraordinary, As Tillman apparantely did, there is no question in my mind that the word fits. He is a hero.

If you're killed in a Humvee accident, does that count?

Whenever a police officer is killed, he/she is hailed as a hero. Well, it's a job I wouldn't want, and it takes (for the most part) admirable intentions to put up with all the crap that people dish out to cops -- but if an officer is killed directing traffic, does that make a hero?

Firefighters are really remarkable people to me. If a firefighter dies of a heart attack in the station house, is he/she a hero?

Are athletes heroes? Some are. Some are thugs. Some are rapists. Some are on drugs.

As hard as it is to say, is the late Mr. Berg who was beheaded by Iraqi militants a hero after allegedly refusing to leave the country as he was supposedly advised by government officials?

And then, look at the use of the word from the other point of view. Are the five men to cut off his head heros? They are to other Iraqi militants.

Are those involved in 9/11 heroes? They certainly aren't to us, but to some Arabs, they are. (Not all Arabs -- or even a majority, so let's not go the racist route here, OK?)

Is John Kerry a hero? The Navy thinks so -- they don't give out medals for bravery very often. Is former President bush a hero for serving as a Navy Fighter Pilot? Apparantely so. Anyone who lands on an aircraft carrier is either a hero or totally out of his mind. Is his son a hero for serving in the National Guard when he probably could have beaten the draft in other ways? Some would argue that everyone in the Reserves and Guard are heroes. Well, he did serve. There was a chance that his unit might have been sent to Vietnam -- although relatively few did.

What this whole dribble I've attempted to explain is that sometimes I think we diminish the meaning of certain words that should be reserved for really unusual occassions.

Are we all guilty of this casual use of the language? I certainly am. In the final analysis, when we overuse these words, does it dilute its meaning when applied to someone like Pat Tillman who really deserves the title?

I'm not looking for an argument, but am very interested in your comments.

not to be cliched, but:

hero n. (plural heroes ) : c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities d : one that shows great courage (Merriam-Webster)

I think, in the traditional sense, that hero is in the eye of the beholder. Who doesnt think giving up a life of wealth and fame to fight anonymously (well, at least as he wanted) and eventually die because he felt he could give more of himself? Pat Tillman is a hero to 99.9999% of the people in America, safely said (with the occasional 'journalist' detractor).

Theres also a difference between being a hero and dying a hero. Had Pat Tillman lived to come home and retire from service, I still believe hed be considered a hero to some, if not as many. Conversely, a lifelong coward who jumps on a grenade to save others, I would say, died heroically. Both could be remembered as heroes, but would also bring doubts. Would Tillman have made the ultimate sacrifice? (now, sadly, we know) Does one act make up for a life of draft dodging and hiding in a foreign country, not for personal beliefs, but just for fear of combat?

'I suppose there are two reasons for considering someone a hero: dying nobly for a cause, or living humbly for one.' (quoted, cant find who actually said it)

That's a really good point.

Again, no question in my mind that Pat Tillman fits the definition in every way.

I simply wonder if we've overused the word in some other cases.

I agree with you on that, and apparently, so does Matt Groening

Homer: 'That Timmy O'Toole is a real hero.'
Lisa: 'How is he a hero?'
Homer: 'Well, he...fell in a well, and....cant get out...'
Lisa: '...'
Homer: 'Well, its more than you ever did!'

Yes, I did just quote 'The Simpsons' to make a point. Love it. :D