To Spank or Not To Spank Kids
 

LINK
Posted on Tue, Apr. 13, 2004



John Rosemond: Just the facts about spanking




Q. A friend of mine recently told me that her parenting philosophy, based on biblical teachings, not only permits the use of spanking but actually instructs parents to use spanking as a primary discipline method. She and her husband took a parenting course at their church that encouraged this approach. As a result, they spank as a first resort for disobedience, fights between siblings, disrespect and the like. Granted, she told me that, as time goes on, the spankings decrease, but even though her children are very well-behaved, I can't see myself doing this. What is your take on this notion?

A. My take is that no matter how I answer this, I'm going to be in trouble with someone. Nevertheless, being no stranger to controversy, I'm going to answer the question.

First, while I have no problem with spankings per se, I do not and never have "believed" in spankings. They are not a matter of faith or doctrine to me, nor do I believe they are essential to the proper discipline of a child. I do however believe that a spanking is sometimes the best disciplinary response to a certain child's misbehavior as it has occurred in a certain context and at a certain time.

I generally caution parents when it comes to spankings because, unfortunately, most parents who spank do so entirely too much, to the point where the spankings are meaningless. The best parenting research has found that parents who occasionally spank, meaning once in a blue moon, raise children who are better adjusted than either parents who spank a lot or parents who do not spank at all. Concerning the notion that spanking teaches children that hitting is OK, there is no good evidence that spankings, in and of themselves, contribute to aggressive inclinations.

Second, I have studied Scripture on this matter and have come to the conclusion that "the rod" referred to in passages pertaining to the discipline of children is not a solid object; rather, it is a metaphor for powerful, persuasive, righteous discipline of any sort. The word "rod" is used in two very discrete ways in the Bible: Whereas "a rod" clearly refers to a stick used for measuring, threshing or, yes, administering punishment, "the rod" is clearly being used metaphorically to refer to righteousness (a bit of a simplification, but it will do). Every time "rod" is used in the context of child discipline, it is used in the latter form ("the rod") and therefore the latter sense.

In Exodus, for example, the consequences of beating a child to death with "a rod" are spelled out. In Proverbs, on the other hand, parents are assured that if they punish a child with "the rod," the child will not die. The seeming inconsistency can be resolved only by understanding that the latter use is metaphorical. That does not eliminate spanking as an option, mind you; it simply means it is not being specifically prescribed.

I have a funny feeling I'm going to need a second mailbox.

IMHO....somtimes kids need their asses whooped. firm believer in the belt.

Before some of you decide to go CPS on me (because I know some of y'all will)...

I am a firm believer in disciplining kids, as most people are. Unfortunately there are idiots out there who don't know the difference between disciplining kids and child abuse.

I don't have any children of my own yet, but that doesn't matter. I consider my nieces and nephew my own and I've had a hand at raising them. Just from that, I know that timeouts aren't worth isht. We've tried the timeout BS, and it's only made the situations worse.

I'm a product of spankings, the belt, and the popular rubber slipper (in Hawai`i those black flip flops were more convenient than the belt). My dad hit me because I was a rotten kid and I deserved to be punished. You bet I learned my lesson. After a while he didn't have to bring out the hand, the belt, or the slipper. Once he said my name slowly, I quit being horrible and retreated to somewhere safe.

That worked for me and it's working for the next generation of kids in my family. You bet that I'll be quick to raise my hand when needed if and when my future kids act up.

Sorry if I've offended anybody, but that's how I plan to raise my kids. I don't tell you how to raise yours, so please keep insults to a bare minimum, thanks.

I posted it because the climate has become so anti-spanking . . and I believe some areas even have pending legislation to make spanking a form of child abuse . . ..

I agree with OTW and Starang.

I think spanking with the hand is when other disciplines don't work. I am against foreign object being used to spank (belts, whips, paddles ect...)

I'm personally not in favor of spanking, but I don't plan to ever have kids so it's not really an important issue for me.

yea right....i wish someone would try and stop me from whoopin on my kid.....cereal ailse whoopins.

In Canada, they recently passed a law saying that kids between 3 (or is it 2?) and 12 can be spanked, but no younger or older.

I think babies have a full derriere for good reasons - to cushion their falls, and to spank.

Anyone who has tried to train up a child under two knows that "reasoning" just doesn't work yet. A quick swat (with the hand, not an object) along with a firm "NO!" at the commission of the "crime" will go much further than other methods. Of course, a parent with anger management problems would not fit under this situation.

But it really is an age appropriate thing. If I had to give just a yes or a no, I would definitely say yes to spanking.

Wow honeychile and I agree on something ;)

I was spanked and I'm alright. When my kids deserve it, they'll be spanked.

I've never spanked my children and I never intend to. I just don't feel that it's right to hit someone just because you're bigger than them and can get away with it.

I know Sandy said that, in her experience, "time outs" don't work, but I've had a lot of success with them. It's the only method of discipline I've ever used, so it's what my girls are used to. They know if I start counting them out that they'd better stop what they're doing before I get to three or they'll be in their room.

I had the isht kicked out of me on a regular basis as a kid and look what a megabitch I turned out to be! ;) Really, I just don't have it in me to do that to my daughters.

We all have our own ideas, though. I don't think any of them are necessarily wrong.

I received 2 spankings my whole life. My mother put the fear of God in me early on, and it seems to have worked. Both of the spankings were at relatively young ages (around 2 or 3) and definitely got the point across. And I definitely deserved it. The threat of a spanking was enough for me. Usually sitting in the corner was enough punishment for me. If I had kids (scary thought) I would only spank them if absolutely necessary. No belts, shoes, etc. That's horrible.

I had nearly the same frequency of spankings as swissmiss04. My only real whoopin' came when I ran out into a busy street at the age of three or four.

I don't see myself spanking my child with anything other than my hand, and if it happens, it will be indeed once in a blue moon, like the original post said.

I agree 100%. When I was younger, my parents would always try to discipline with their words or other forms of punishment (no TV, can't see friends, etc.). If all else fails, I would get a spanking. They never hit me on any other places of my body besides my bottom and they only used their hands. When I was kid, my thought process was that I could deal without television or without seeing my friends but a spanking...that meant I was REALLY bad. I would try to be good so that I wouldn't get a spanking. I think it really instilled firm discipline within me.
I think spanking is ok as long as it doesn't cross the line into child abuse.

in my deepest southern ghetto accent drawl
 

words in bold deeply emphasized and spelled that way for a reason

spank 'em. that is why these kids is so darn dispectful now. why, i grew up back in the day whyere i grew up. my neighbor could whup my ass, if i was doin' sumthin' wrong. i had to be in the when the street lights came on. i couldn't sass back to nun of the grown folk. i always had to say yes ma'am or no suh !!!

i think one time my grandma threw a shoe at me 'cause i sucked my teeth!!!

that time out stuff don't work!! i wish they had time out in my day. lil johnny and lil suzie got it so lucky, right now!

Not directed to you KR, just an observation of parents in general. I had two different kids and two different reactions to every form of discipline. The trick is to keep changing it up and when you send them to their room, make sure it isn't the equivalent of being in a PLAYROOM.

I agree-There is a difference between beating, spanking and a swat.

My rules were (age was a consideration)
1. Could they harm themselves? running into the street.
2. Could they harm others or destroy property? throwing rocks-biting-pushing consider the situation of course
3. Out and out disobedience when they KNOW better.

For those who are against spanking, that's OK by me IF you have control of your child and it's not the other way around. I think you are the minority though. Lets face it, a lot of parents find it easier to park their kids in front of a TV than spend the time teaching, playing and reading with them.

Spare me from the mother who allows her child to scream, kick and yell in the grocery store wanting candy. THEN says "Wait till your father gets home." or "No TV for you." AS THE CHILD DEVOURS THE CANDY HER MOTHER GAVE HER JUST TO SHUT HER UP!:rolleyes: There is nothing worse or more sad than a rotten child.

Spankings didn't work for me. I don't know if it was because I was a super strong-willed child, had a high pain tolerance, or I didn't get spanked hard enough (despite that I was sometimes spanked by thick belts, combs, house shoes, and boto bats :o). It seemed that whatever I did to get me into trouble was worth the spankings. What worked with me was punishment by humiliation and having my favorite things taken away.

(despite that I was sometimes spanked by thick belts, combs, house shoes, and boto bats) :eek:

You were possibly really strong willed and very proud.

I would NEVER let my parents see me cry when I "got it"!
Made them feel like dirt.

I can honestly not remember being spanked. My parents had opposing views on the frequency and severity of corporal punishment, so as a result it happened very rarely, if at all.

I have seen parents get too carried away with their own anger while doing it, and that is a f$#ked up situation. THAT is where discipline becomes child abuse. The point isn't to express the parent's anger, it's to discipline the child--right?

So, little Munchkins will not get spanked. My sister and I, as well as my sister's children, were disciplined by losing privileges, not having the isht beaten out of us.

I was spanked. A lot. Of course, I was a hellion. It really never worked as far as changing my behavior. Unfortunately, I don't think my parents had much idea what to do with me. They did, strangely, however, have an order on file at my elementary school forbidding my paddling (which I found out about and let the office staff know that I knew:cool: ).

Most likely, if I have children, they'll be ADHD as all hell like I was/am. Hopefully, they figure out some method of genetic engineering that can prevent ADHD though.

My parents spanked. Although I think I had maybe 4 or 5 of them my entire life. Because I didn't care if I got spanked. I learned by the second one that it hurt for maybe 2 minutes, and then I could go right back to whatever I was doing. So my mom started "timeouts" ... I would have to stand in a corner, and I couldn't talk or turn my head or look at anyone. OMG did I hate it. I would stand there for maybe 3 minutes and it drove me crazy. To this day I can't stand not doing anything.

My brother and sister, the spanking worked on, but for me, it was timeouts. It depends on what will get the message across to the kid.

I was a part-time nanny for a couple of years, and the kid I took care of was never spanked. She did what she wanted when she wanted and got what she wanted right away, if not sooner. When she acted up, which was often, she was sent to "time out." It didn't work. She liked to see just how far she could go and how much she could get away with, and of course I couldn't do anything about it. The kid tried to push my mother down a flight of stairs one time and almost succeeded, and she sat there and laughed about it. That kid needed her butt busted.

Yeah, I can SO relate to that! Been there and felt that!

Which is why I am on the fence about spanking. A swat on the butt is fine but sometimes parents can carry it to far

Taking away my privleges hurt a lot more than getting the isht beat out or me.

Being beaten just made me more sneaky about how I did things

I think it depends on the kid. I know my parents had two completely different children with completely different personalities. With my sister, spankings never really worked. She wouldn't give my parents the satisfaction of seeing her cry. Then, there was me who teared up at the very threat of being spanked.

I think what is missing from parenting today, though, isn't necessarily the spankings so much as consistency. Kids need boundaries and they need to know consistently when they overstep those boundaries.

Since I don't plan on having kids it really doesn't matter, but anyway.

I'm a firm believer in the use of a belt, plain and simple. I've had some good spankings and it deterred me from some things, but not others. My mother used the kneeling on the floor in the kitchen, THAT WAS THE WORSE and she also sent me outside (I know that doesn't seem like a punishment, but for me it was, I HATED IT and she knew it, there wasn't much to do) and restriction or a combination over the above, but most of the time I got spanked, I can probably count how many times on both hands. Some of the stunts that I pulled, I deserved it. I look at it this way, my mother got spanked, my sister and I got spanked and we turned out fine. I have the most respect in the world for my parents and my grandmother.

I also have some comparision, my stepfather did not spank his son, but talked to him and put him on restriction, which was ignored completely. There was one instance were we were going out (mom, me and step-father) and "L" went to go talk to his son "D" and it just got out of control, some of the things "D" was saying and the way he spoke to his father (so disrespectful). Since that was his son, my mother had nothing to do with disciplining "D" or the like. I turned to my mother and said simply "Ma, if I had said that to you in that tone, you would put me through the wall", my mother nodded.

I'm not saying that "beat respect into your kids", but putting up some bounderies and letting them know that they've crossed those lines with some form of spanking and restriction is the way to go for me and mine (family).

ms. gwyn

I have to agree with JAM. It depends on both the child and the situation. In situations like running into the street, sticking something into an electrical socket, touching a hot stove, it's important to associate them with physical harm and I spanked my kids, when they were too young to reason with, to demonstrate this. Ditto with harming others.

I had two very different children. My daughter is so extremely sensitive that just saying her name sharply (even now that she's 10) sends her into tears and apologies. She's generally a very well behaved child. Her friends' moms all say "She is welcome here any time", she is a teacher's pet, is always sweet to others and is very compassionate (well, to everybody but her younger brother, but sibling stuff is different anyway).

Then there is my son. He will take attention any way he can get it, even if it's negative (like spanking). He is now 8 and for about the past 3 years, he will not only refuse to cry if spanked, he will laugh and giggle, which makes an angry parent only more angry. My ex still spanks him and has no control over his behavior. I find though, that he responds better to the loss of playstation, game boy, computer games, etc. than he does to spankings. The "if you keep doing xyz, you'll lose playstation for a week" totally works with him. He is much calmer at my house than at his dad's (even at school, per the latch key staff). He responds to chaos with chaos. He responds to a calm, mellow demeanor with calmness. He knows that if he wants attention (cuddling, playing a board game, or just talking) from me, he will get it if he asks so he doesn't have to act out to get it. He also knows my rules and knows the consequences if he doesn't follow them. His dad is not consistent and will change the rules or consequences based on what is convenient for him at the time.

It's about knowing your kids, knowing what works and what doesn't for them, evaluating the risk of the behavior and being consistent at an early age. Oh yeah, "The Look" will do wonders if they learn it early!

Dee

The looks I would get from my father were MUCH MORE intimidating than any spank would have been. I think there are ways around physical punishment... but I do not think it is out of line...

I support spanking kids when I get bored

This reminded me off one time I lost my temper. I don't lose my temper very often. But when I do, it comes out in full force.

I was visiting my aunt and uncle with my family one weekend and my aunt had friend who had a child with ADHD. We were told about the child, and I was like fine, whatever.

Well the parents of this boy decided to take off for a while and left the child with my mother and father and myself (this couple didn't even ask if we would watch him which really irritated the crap out of me) anyway, the kid started having an "epsiode". He was running all over and swearing, so I tried ignoring him until he started hitting my mother. He even took of his shoes and threw them at her. Well when he did that I grabbed him by the arm quite hard and I said to him "if I ever see you do that again I will hit you myself." He just laughed at me, so i hit him.

My mother got upset with me because I hit a kid, but damn he deserved it. I don't care if he had ADHD or not. His parents also shouldn't have left him with complete strangers without asking if they would be so kind as to watch him for a bit and tell us what they do if he starts to act up.

I think I was more upset with the parents. When they returned my aunt asked them to leave because they should have left their child unattended like that.

That doesn't sound like ADHD, that sounds like some kind of emotionally disturbed kid.

It might have been. I was more pissed off with the parents for leaving their kid with us and taking off.

My aunt asked her friends to leave when they finally returned. She was pissed at them too.

*Cough* child abuser *cough*

-Rudey

"A spanking! A spanking!" - Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Hmm... I don't know about spanking. I guess it depends on the parent and on the child. As a kid, my mom sometimes went over the top with it. I'm sure I deserved it a few times, but there were a few others when she was so mad at me that I was scared. If my children behave well, I probably won't. However, if they are little devils, I'm sure they will get an occasional slap.

I wouldn't spank a child.

I saw a little girl getting her hand slapped by her mother. The little girl hit her mother back which I thought was appropriate.

My mother hit me once. I hit here back. I nearly got a beating from my father. Yeah, that was the last time anyone ever got spanked. I can take my mother, but there is no way in hell I can take on my father.

That is so funny, PNC! My finaces daughter does the same thing! He'll yell at her about something and when she doesn't behave he'll spank her butt. She'll turn and hit him right back! :eek:

At first I was appalled at her, but I realized she learned it from him and his ex. They spank the girl when she does something bad, but she just keeps doing it. And since they can't seem to agree on any other form of discipline (he says no TV, mom still lets her watch it) the daughter realizes the spank is not really a big deal - so she spanks them right back! Of course, they are "easy spankers" - no other objects and no "whoopins". Maybe they need to do more...and I don't even agree with that, but darn this girl is a spoiled brat sometimes!!!! :rolleyes:

I hope the kids I have with him are better and we don't have to spank. But check with me in 5-7 years!

My goodness...i agree with Ooh teenie wahinie 100%!

I grew up with a father and mother who believed discipline by hand was the only way to go! And we grew up well adjusted and well mannered responsible adults.

I am so fed up and sick to death with ppl today who have a fricken cow when someone disciplines their child publically.

I do not believe in hitting or anything like that because then you have crossed the line. But to take a open hand accross a butt to send a message is fine. Now you take a fist accross the face or open hand accross the face or a fist into any other part of the body ... again crosses the line.


My father and mother did instill the fear of god into us kids and by mentioning our full names we knew it was coming. If we got the name ...your next move that you make better be a good one because the next action would be after the full name a spanking and restriction.

I have a 4 1/2 yr old whom i am now raising by myself full time as his father is living back in Oklahoma and being mom and dad is hard. I had him in a wal mart cart a few weeks ago and he started acting up and i said to him in a low stern voice your lucky because mommy can't discpline you here in the store ( BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW THE CHILD PSYCHOLIGIST customers all have a cow and send out their gashtly sighs and "WELL i NEVER" remarks) told him once we get him home it is a spanking and time out ( restrction). After i said that a few customers were behind me and ready to hear some half snide remark they said "....hell no i would descipline him here screw what ppl say!" ( so chalk two votes up for motherhood done right!) I don't put up with back talk or bad manners or out of control kids......that is the problem with our world today all the ppl who sit there and make judgment on those who discpline our kids are giving those kids permission to act up because my god if we don't discpline ourkids than were going to have wild monsters on our hands.

I am very much a church person and read scripture ....my own pastor has said heck yeah you got to discpline.


Bottom line.....discipline yes ...child abuse no!

My mom perfected the Look Of Death while I was very young, and that alone was usually enough to stop me cold in my tracks. (In fact, the LOD once scared me so badly I actually fainted, but that's a story for another day.)

On the rare occasions that didn't work, we were spanked. It didn't scar me for life. I completely agree with my sister AGDee and justamom about knowing what discipline works for your child. I'd prefer to use time-outs and consequences first, but I won't be afraid to swat a bottom if I think the situation calls for it.

wow....the discipline of these children these days. and people wonder why young people don't know respect anymore. i'd have gotten the worst whoopin' ever if i did some garbage like that.