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The "New" Church?????!!???????
Okay, I was watching a news report that said that in a church somewhere, a Starbucks had opened in the church's lobby. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif So, members of the congregation prior or after church services would be able to purchase coffee, etc.
THEN, locally, this pastor, minister, elder, or whatever title he has given himself has put...ATM machines in his church. YEAH, I SAID IT...ATM machines in his church! I was cut up, to say the least. Now, I realize that this is the 21st century and all, and there are new "views" on certain issues, but I am still kind of old-fashioned about SOME things and what goes on in church is one of them. NOW, HAVING A STARBUCKS INSIDE THE CHURCH AND PLACING AN ATM MACHINE INSIDE THE CHURCH, I just CANNOT GET WITH IT... DoN't get me started about a minister asking for tax papers to see if you are paying your tithes or not... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif Or there are so many "associate" pastors that when you have something, say like, get married or a funeral, the minister does not perform the ceremony, he sends an "associate" minister...NOT! I did not post this for it to go on a tangent about what the bible says or doesn't say, I was just totally SHOCKED when I heard and saw this. I mean, dang, what's next? I guess I will be able to get my car detailed while I am hearing the word, huh? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif Maybe valet parking?, get my oil changed? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif So is this then, the "NEW" CHURCH? |
Yeah, I guess that's what it is supposed to be for... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif
STILL, why can't I just go to the bank before church or whenever and GET MY MONEY! You don't have to actually put the ATM machine IN church! A SHOPPING MALL, OKAY, BUT A CHURCH? THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif THERE ARE JUST SOME PLACES YOU JUST DON'T MESS WITH! in my opinion, of course! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif [This message has been edited by AKA2D '91 (edited March 04, 2001).] |
I feel like if you want to give, nobody should have to force you, remind you, prod you, insinuate to you, subliminally hint to you, etc. If you want to give to the church and it's in your own heart then you will.
I, for one, have a problem like when I go to other churches, and they take up an offering and then they count it and say, "Oh we just need $300 more dollars", and they go throughout the congregation trying to hit up more people. If they DIDN'T give the first time, they didn't have it in their heart to give. SO that goes to show you that the church is more concerned about their monetary state, than their parishioners spiritual state. God loves a CHEERFUL giver, not one who gives GRUDGINGLY!!! I know that some may not agree with me, but that's just MY opinion. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by AKA2D '91: THERE ARE JUST SOME PLACES YOU JUST DON'T MESS WITH! AMEN AKA2D'91! AMEN--(As I ROTF and SMH at the pastor and the building...because we are the church...who has the ump-ump-ump-nerves to go there!) http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif Shalom~ |
I think the Starbucks thing is taking it too far. Pretty soon the church will be located in the mall and you can "stop in" while you do your shopping. If you want coffee why can't you stop and get it before you come to church. Church is becoming a place of business instead of a place of worship. Man, the "New" Church or not, I agree, are just some things that don't need to happen in church.
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Alright for a Starbucks in church http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif I wonder if they donate a portion of the profits to the church...
And as for the ATM in church...well, maybe, just maybe, it's to boost the amount of funds in the collection plate, kind of like how ATM are strategically placed near the food court & "impulse shopping" kiosks in the mall to encourage you to leave more money there. Just a thought... |
It's funny that you brought up the mall reference because in my area there was a Catholic Church located in shopping mall for many years.
Also, there are some churches where you can pay your offering/tithes to a centralized area if your church participates. So, when you put the envelope in you just put your account # and dollar amount the church withdraws that amount out so you don't have to write out a check. I think it's run by the Lutheran Brotherhood. |
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My friends reply was "Well..That's one thing the world needs more of, Churches. These folks need Jesus" All I had to say was, just because it had the "Church" label it didn't mean that they were recieving Jesus. I think both the Starbucks and the ATM are a bit much. Everything , even something as sacred as church, is getting so commercialized(sp)as well as full of sensationalism. What's next? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif |
A few weeks back, I was listening to a talk radio show. They had a minister on who said he was working to get a McDonald's included in the church. He claimed that it would provide jobs for people and that they would use all of their profits for their "causes" and not for church maintenance.
All I can say is that I'm not surprised given the direction this world is going anyway. |
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I think the issue becomes "Why are you doing this and how does it give God glory?" I'm sorry, but I just don't see how an ATM is going to help give Him his Glory!! The world already sees Christians (especially pastors) as money hunger and they would put an ATM in the Church?!?!? Well, I guess it would cut out that general lie "I forgot my check book so I can't give this week!" statement!! LOL http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif Another rumor I recently heard: For any LA or Southern Cali folks out there...Is there a church that has bought/is trying to buy the LA Forum where the Lakers used to play?? |
Hopefully, you are complaining about the right thing ladies. My church has recently opened a Christianomics Mall on church property. It has a restaurant, beauty shop, barbershop, clothing store etc. It is NOT part of the church or inside the sanctuary. It is a way for Christians to recycle their dollars with members of the church (who own the shops) This money flows through members and the church. I know of churches that own strip malls, McDonalds, etc. I perceive this as a good thing because the Church is self-sufficient and makes money rather than relies solely or the pockets of sometimes poor parishiners. Now to have an ATM inside a sanctuary is sacriligeous and should not be tolerated . But churches, just like Black folk in general, need to learn to recycle their money and become money generators instead of spenders.
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The ATM is too much...the Starbucks...well...for a few Sundays my church had one of the members to cater after the service so that we would not have to fight the Sunday after church rush at the local resturants...
------------------ Alpha Kappa Alpha 17-Alpha Phi-91 Alpha Psi Omega |
Well.... I kinda like the ATM idea. I'd actually wondered if it was possible one Sunday. I'm the "last minute" person (a nice way to say *procrastinator*), and many times I'm already rushing to get a seat in the sanctuary (our church has 4 services, many of which are very packed). An ATM would actually help me out a little, IMHO. As far as the Starbucks... why don't they just serve their own breakfast or coffee? Our church serves breakfast between 7 & 8:30 services for 2.50 (and you get grits, eggs, bacon, muffins, juice or coffee). I'll stop now, I sound like an advertisement.
As far as checking the tax statements for tithes, I wouldn't be too happy about that at all. That's just MAN MADE. There are times when people want to give, but simply cannot. God knows the heart. I also don't like "eliminator/guilt" techniques, where ministers ask for an extra offering from everyone who can give (of course NOONE wants to be the one sitting), or the (sorry for those who may know exactly what I'm talking about) "everyone place the largest bill in your pocket on the altar" sermons. God knows my heart, and if He calls me to do this, it'll be a personal directive. It's almost like a do or "lie" situation. Who wants to lie in church? |
Another rumor I recently heard: For any LA or Southern Cali folks out there...Is there a church that has bought/is trying to buy the LA Forum where the Lakers used to play??
This is not just a mere RUMOR...it is the GOSPEL (pun intended, of course) truth. The church is called Faithful Central Bible Church. They had their New Years Celebration service there and I believe that it is just about set in stone that the Great Western Forum is going to be the new church home. I must say, all this talk about money hungry churches and corrupt preachers...I really need to get the King James in my hand!!! Pray people....PRAY! |
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Just curious... |
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I would view an ATM as a convenience, even though it could be percieved otherwise. But in the long run, it is my choice to go to that ATM and withdraw whatever amount of money that the Lord leads me to contribute. It doesn't have to exist inside of the church, but personally it would make it easier me. And it'll always be a matter of perception, but I'll give you an example. This Sunday, a girl scout asked me to buy cookies after service. I don't carry alot of cash (and I'm a sucker for GS cookies...anyway...) so I left, went to an ATM up the street, and came back - which, by that time, they had packed up & left. I thought about this post. Now as far as checking the tax statements... that's a form of micro management: MAN trying to get written proof that the members paid their tithes. |
It's my understanding that Creflo and Taffy Dollar require their new parishioners to show pay stubs and/or tax returns to determine their appropriate monthly tithes.
It's my further understanding that they have a "collections" office which sends out monthly invoices to members for their tithes and will send your overdue account (with added finance charges) to a collection agency if delinquent. Anyone heard the same thing? My apologies to any members of the Creflo and Taffy Dollar ministry. |
AN ATM MACHINE IN CHURCH? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif
DON'T YALL REMEMBER A STORY LIKE THIS IN THE BIBLE? I DON'T REMEBER THE BOOK/CHAPTER/VERSE, BUT I REMEMBER READING ABOUT JESUS BEING REALLY P.O.'d ABOUT THE MONEYCHANGERS BEING IN THE TEMPLE, AND HIM TURNING OVER THEIR TABLES! (LAWD, LAWD, LAWD!! WE KNOW NOT WHAT WE DO!!) |
i've been complaining about this type of madness for quite some time. now, i am a CHRISTian, and have been all my life. having been raised in church, i know that everything in the church has its place and commerce has no place in the church.
i've heard my share of "paying for blessings" stories. my sister was telling me that her former church arranged to have a bank in the vestibule. members were asked to take out a $1,500 loan--donate $1,000 to the church and keep $500 for yourself (how gracious http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif ). this type of thing sickens me. i want to be able to walk in church and get my PRAISE on, not my PAY on!!! |
CYBERSPACE CHURCH?
I had to share this "junk/bulk" email I was "sent". It's Long. We’re starting a new kind of church and would like you to be a charter member. CyberChurchOnline will open its virtual doors in 30 days. A church with no doors..no walls and no limits!! We are not bound by a denomination, religious rules or tradition. What binds us is our need for a better relationship with Jesus Christ and the faith to make a difference in our lives and the lives of others. Are you tired of the same old boring church services Sunday after Sunday? Do you even go to church at all? We’ll were here to offer you something very different! As Jesus did 2000 years ago, we’re here to break religious tradition! We’re tired of what we see in traditional churches across the country. We’re tired of the judgmental attitude that is so prevalent in the church today. We’re not here to judge each other but serve each other! You’ll have access to 24/7 instant chat time with live counselors. They’ll pray with you, talk with you, and help you through needs and problems in your life. We’ll make it our mission to pray for you, your family and your needs each and every day! Our chat counselors operate out of a physical church in San Antonio, TX. You’ll be able to see live video cam images of our counselors and facilities anytime of the day. You’ll be able to attend our services in the same way! You’ll have a pastor that is real and that is sick and tired of the fake money hungry televangelist we see every day. Our church is FREE and this isn’t about money…it’s about helping people! People are searching for a more fulfilled and happy life! We know we can help you overcome the daily battles and struggles you face. We’ll go through them with you! We’re starting this ministry to help people that need it and begin a new kind of church that has no boundaries. We’re starting this church to be a family to people all over the world. We’ll send you daily devotions and you’ll have full access to our website to receive up to the minute changing information and spiritual guidance. Join chat groups that fit your interests: Singles/Divorcees/Defeating Depression and Loneliness/Teens/Seniors/Young Married/ Mom’s Club/Single moms/need a job…..and many more! Do you have needs and problems in your life and want someone to pray with you? Find friends in our church and we’ll help you set up your own instant messaging profile to be able to talk with them at any time! Do you want to experience the victory that a relationship with Jesus brings? If so send an email to the address below and join something truly special… Type “new member” in the subject line and we’ll be in contact with you. Quit anytime you want. What are YOUR thoughts? |
I respect peoples beliefs, whether I agree or not. As for me, I believe God is with me everywhere I go; but the place I worship at is not in a church building-and for the same reason as this topic. The place we select to worship God is the place where HE should receive ALL of our attention. It is supposed to be a "sanctuary". These churchs out here (to me)no longer are sanctuaries; and that's why I made my own.
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This is a very good topic. I left a mega church because too many times the pastor would say " i"m not going to preach today, I'm going to talk about this project". Also, I believe in prosperity however I do not believe in pastor's riding around in limousines ,a private jet, with bodyguards. There was a group of business owners in the church who were begging to have a "personal audience" with the pastor to even consider helping them. It's sad but too many times the pastor is the one who talks prosperity but does not implement practical ways like investment clubs, financing homes, etc for the members.
I think the last straw was when the pastor's daughter got married and they had a VIP reception (at a museum for the upper echelon church members) and a regular one(back of the church-for all the regular members)I joined a smaller church not long ago and I received a letter stating there is going to be a birthday party for the pastor ($20 per ticket and each family has been asked to give a love offering to the pastor of at least $80). I'm like "Oh God, here we go again". Before I joined this church- I was searching for another one.(Visiting different ones) The mega one sent me a letter saying I had only tithed this little amount and to call them if something was wrong. |
Personally i attend one of the greatest churches w/ the greatest pastor on the east coast, located in Richmond! It is a church where the WORD goes forth, strictly run by the tithes, offerings, and other gifts of love. It has been in existance for 17 years now (pastor in ministry for 20) without a need for fundraisers...aka...chicken dinners, car washes, fish dinners..etc...ALL of our BILLS are paid on time! WE owe no man anything BUT to love HIM.
It amazes me that people will spend so much money on nails, hair, cars, and other luxury items for themself but not pay tithes or even give an offering! It also amazes me that these people expect men and women of God to live in poverty! Tithe means 10th! It is a 10th of your increase or income! It belongs to GOD ~ which is given through (to) to the local church ~ this is where you should be growing spiritual (being fed spiritually). I have a problem when I hear people complaining about "money-hungry" pastors because all of them are not like that and shouldn't be stereotyped ~ just like greek organizations, black people, white people, hispanics, etc. Do not rob GOd in giving your tithes and offerings. Finally, check your heart and motive for paying or not paying your tithes, giving offerings, or gifts of love. |
I tithe and give an offering. I have a problem with the other funds that are are "required". It's almost like Spiritual Robbery. Especially when a Pastor says "God told me to tell you to give $1,000.. I know you're worried about your light bill, feeding children. But you must be obedient to God". I have actually been in a church and was told that. People were running to the altar giving money and crying. It's sad- I think people want to please God and know Him so badly that they will do just about anything.I think that is taking advantage of people and it is criminal. Does a Pastor and His wife who have Lexuses, a Bentley, a drop top Mercedes, and a jet actually not see his members who don't have a decent pair of shoes not have their priorities together?
Why is it when the member does something for the church it's volunteer, but when the Pastor does it, there's a price tag attached to it? I'm not talking about all churches and Pastors but a majority of them. |
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