"Dry" Pledging
 

Do any of your campuses or chapters have dry pledging (where pledges aren't allowed to drink at all for a certain period of time)? How common is this on campuses? At my school it's standard practice that everyone is supposed to do, but only the sororities follow it. Tri- Sigmas pledges are dry for all of pledging, ours and AST's are dry for about 4 weeks, and Kappa's are dry only during I-week.

Our campus has dry pledging. Under 21 can't drink from the start of school through bid night and then those over 21 can until the night before formal recruitment through bid night.

im not sure about there being a campus wide rule, but our pledges are dry during i-week.

All Greek activities on my campus, unless held at a third party vendor, with someone checking IDs, are *supposed* to dry, so obviously our pledging is supposed to be dry. I dont know what the girls do now, but when I was an active (only 2 years ago!) we also said the new members werent allowed to drink in the presence of a sister- this included if we saw them at a mixer, fraternity party, non-sorority event, etc. Since the new members were under 21, we could rationale this as forbidding them to do something thats illegal anyways, although I suppose some new members considered it hazing... the girls complained, but we didn't want our new members embarassing themselves by before they were initiated.

All GLO's here are -supposed- to be dry, but of course, that never happens. However, I do know of some groups that are really strict with the no-drinking-no-matter-what-your-age-because-you're-a-pledge policy, but their pledge program is normally the shortest, so the non-drinking isn't really a big deal.

Dry pledging is hazing. It forbids the pledges from doing something the sisters are allowed to do. We outlawed this as hazing back in the 1970's.

Of course if the pledges (or sisters) are underage they should not be drinking anyway. But if we're talking chapters in Canada where the age is lower or pledges who are 21 (they do exist) to tell them they can't drink at a bar or in their house is gross infringement on their rights.

Not to mention, if you say "no drinking while pledging" and all your pledges are underage, it's kinda like you're saying you condone underage drinking which can be a risk management problem. Sort of like Congress saying there is no Mafia and then holding special sessions to discuss the Mafia problem.

Dry RUSH (what AOII Azra-elle is actually talking about) is a whole other matter as the whole sorority ceases drinking.

Gotta question
 

Why is alcohol needed for a pledge process?:confused:

It is not needed....it has NOTHING to do with the pledge process and is not permitted during pledge activities, but you should not be doing pledge activities 24/7. If you want to go have a beer when you get home from whatever the pledge activity is and are of age you should not be forbidden to do so.

Does that clarify? :)

Ahhhhh! So in actuality the drinking part is completely seperate from the process. But Sisters and pledges are allowed to go drinking, if they are of age, outside of pledging activities?

Yes. I wouldn't see why not.

Thanks for the clarification!;)

Re: Gotta question
 

It has nothing to do with the pledge process at all. The dry pledging rule applies to outside of pledge functions. At some schools, this is mandated to make sure that pledges are never put in a situation where they're forced to drink.

So... hazing to prevent hazing? I don't see how this can be a school-mandated rule. You shouldn't be telling new members NOT to drink, just like you shouldn't be forcing them TO drink. It goes both ways. Perhaps technically, because it is a school rule, the GLO would not be considered hazing, but either way I agree with 33girl. Telling new members that they cannot drink (while still allowing initiated sisters to do so) is an infringement of their rights.

My sorority does not allow drinking during the pledge process, which is 10wks, we are also as a whole national sorority not allowed to drink while wearing letters or any and all sorority nalia.

To me I think it is a good idea to have a "dry" pledge process. It's easier, since you don't have that added pressure to drink, plus
the sorority won't have to deal with a situation in which a PNM drinks, gets wasted and then does something that would reflect badly upon the sorority.

Yes, 33girl some would say that it is hazing , but I would rather be hazed in this manner then in the ''regular " sense of the word. I was one of those 21 and over pledges so legally I had every right to drink, but it was only 10wks and I survived . ;)

The majority of sororities do not allow drinking in letters or lettered items. Just to clarify, does the entire sorority abstain from drinking during the pledging period, or just the pledges? During Inspiration Week, my chapter does "No Boys, No Booze", but that's not hazing because we all do it gladly.

Instating a dry pledge period to avoid hazing in the form of drinking just puts the focus back on alcohol or the lack of alcohol. I don't differentiate between "good" hazing and "bad" hazing. Of course, it was only 10 weeks and you survived; that's not the point.

To tell someone they can't drink at all while they pledge is ridiculous. It's unenforcable.
It's like putting someone on social probation because of poor grades. It's understandable why one would do that, but it's not really effective. You can ban them from sorority functions, but if you think it's going to completely stop them from going out and partying, you're deluding yourself.
If you want to make the pledging period dry, then you have to make sure that no sorority events involve alcohol and that also means no participating in/co-sponsoring events that involve alcohol.
But ultimately, if you have a new member that is of legal age, she wants a drink, she's going to have one.

Yeah you're right I shouldn't differentiate between "good hazing and bad hazing".

In my sorority only the pledges abstain from drinking during the process, actives can drink. There was one thing that I forgot to mention in my last post our pledges have to wear a necklace and pin at all times during the process, the only exceptions are showers and swimming, so they have sorority nalia on at all times.

My question to you is does your sorority allow PNMs to drink in letters?

Why is it that you don't consider the "NO BOYS, NO BOOZE" during Inspiration Week hazing?

Couldn't it be said that your nationals is actually partaking in hazing it's members during that week by putting those restrictions on your life?

Granted, I don't know that much about NPC rush and have only a limited knowledge of how Inspriration Week works. We do have sororities that do I-Week.

Yes, our process is "dry" and as you stated with I-Week you all do it voluntarily, so do our pledges as did our founders and charters of my chapter and every chapter withing my sorority.

That's just my .02

Shoudn't someone that has poor grades be on social probation?
Last time I checked most NPC, NHPC, NALFO, NIC have a gpa requirement that has to be followed and enforced.




I was one of those new members that is of legal age and there were many times were I wanted a drink and could of totally had one, since I lived in an apartment on campus and most of the actives lived together in one dorm, it would have been soooo easy, but I knew that I would be breaking a trust and that did not sit well with me.

No one in our sorority is allowed to drink in letters. We also don't smoke or cuss. Phi Mu Fraternity does not promote No Boys, No Booze; it is a chapter tradition. At any time, the chapter could vote (actually it prob. wouldn't even require a vote, just a decision of the new member educator) to not do No Boys, No Booze. We choose to do it as a chapter (that means initiated sisters and soon-to-be initiated sisters) to keep the focus on spending time with your sisters, not spending time with your boyfriend or at a bar. The guidelines are not really harsh, and it is governed by the honor system. It is not hazing because we as an entire chapter CHOOSE to do this. Although I have not encountered this, theoretically if there was a girl in the chapter who felt uncomfortable with participating, she would not have to because there is no enforcement. The point is that we don't make the new members do anything that the sisters themselves do not do. If the pledges are not drinking throughout the pledge period, but the initiated sisters are, I don't consider that voluntary.

I am not questioning your process; even though I said there is no "good" hazing or "bad" hazing, I don't think that having a dry pledge period is really all that bad. But... in the scheme of things, any activity where the pledges are doing something that the sisters don't do, or VICE VERSA, in your situation, is hazing.

During my pledging process the only time we were told to anything about alcohol was Bid Night. It was expressed to us that there was to be "No booze, no boys" that night since it is a nite to get to be closer with the girls you are going to be sisters with. All the sister went out that night while we were told to stay home in our rooms and not even allowed to hold conversations with boys. The rest of out pledge process we were never told no alcohol but some of my pledge class got out of control and was making a name for us so we were put on a 3 drink maximum which none of us followed. As for the drinking with letters, none of the sorority chapters on my campus can drink in letters at all. But the whole point that if you do something stupid there is no identifying you directly to the sorority because you don't have letter on is bull. Someone at that party will see you and know you are in a greek organization and say what sorority you are in so it doesn't matter if you drink in letters or not and if you do something stupid in letters or not, people know anyway.

In this situation, I believe that it is an NPC Recruitment guideline that there will be no alcohol or boys at a Bid Day celebration. I know for certain that this is enforced through our College Panhellenic.

No, you're right, people who have poor grades should be on social probabtion, what I really mean by that is, that ultimately, social probabtion won't deter a member from going out and partying, if that's what they really want to do. All that social probabtion means is they cannot participate in their sorority/greeklife events.
If a member wants to go out to the bar on a saturday night with her GDI friends, then she's going to go out and her org can't stop her.

Also, PNM's (in NPC terms) are not yet members of an organization so they do not have letters to wear.

If we're talking about drinking during rush,rush events are dry, but if the a legal PNM wants to go out on a saturday night and have a drink, then she could, because she is not participating in a rush event.

Actually we can't have alcohol at ANY SAI-related events. So yeah, we have dry pledging. :)

I *think* in this thread, we're discussing COMPLETELY dry, as in the pledges are not allowed to drink at ALL. We don't have any drinking in any part of our Phi program either, besides social functions. At these functions, the law prevails- no drinking under 21.

If that is true then why is it that I have read in the Rush Forum that when bid day gifts were handed out PNMS recieved letters from XYZ to wear? I've had friends that pleded(rushed) Pi Phi and were allowed to wear letters, same with GPhiB?

this may be true of Pi Phi, but not of all NPC orgs. In Alpha Gam we were given letters on Bid Day and were encouraged to wear them throughout our New Member period.

PNM and NM (new member) are different.

New Members would be given letters.

Potential New Members have not yet accepted a bid from an organization, so why would they be wearing letters.

On my campus PNM's are asked not to drink the weekend of pref parties or spend time with fraternity men. It is also asked that the sororities do the same. As for NM's we tell they they are absolutely not allowed to drink in letters as we aren't suppose to anyway.

Alcohol is forbidden at all formal recruitment events. Bid Day is considered part of FR for these purposes. So that first day of your new member period would be dry for that reason.

AEPhi's rules regarding alcohol are, I believe, fairly typical for NPC: no alcohol at sorority-sponsored functions (even if co-sponsored with another org that offers to pay for the booze); no drinking while wearing letters or other insignia (including new member pins); all sisters and new members are expected to obey federal, state, local, and campus regulations regarding alcohol. So the new member period isn't dry per se; a NM of legal drinking age may drink outside of sorority events if she wishes. However, most NMs are underage, and since we are expected to obey the law... it pretty much comes down to no booze.

wow.

drinking under age 21 is illegal.

By forbidding new members, all who are under 21, to drink in the presence of a sister, is upholding the law! I dont think ANY national org would cite a chapter for hazing by forbidding new members from drinking during pledging!! It fits the technical definiton of hazing, yes, but its completely different than making new members go on a scavenger hunt alone without the rest of the chapter, or lining up NMs by breast size according to that "Pledged" book. :rolleyes:

and AXO encourages giving letters to NM, but I dont think they said it was hazing not to. Im not too sure about that. I know we didn't, only because no other chapter on our campus did. They could only wear screenprint.

Uhhhh Rissa, not all NMs are under 21. There may be those who non-traditional students or upperclassmen. Not to mention earlier drinking ages in Canada (18 (Alberta and Quebec) and 19 (everywhere else)). If these girls aren't allowed to drink througout their entire NM period, then it is hazing.

i apologize, i misread what you had originally wrote.

That's how it is at my school. We have to keep the new members with us until midnight on Bid Day so that no one has any alcohol on Bid Day.

our pledges are dry for eight weeks.

Our campus holds a dry recruitment period, meaning no parties given by fraternities or sororities until every IFC and NPC chapter is through with recruitment. It starts when school starts. (Hense the big anticipation of 10:01s because the dry rush period is lifted at 10:00 pm on the last thursday of rush.)

We kinda tweaked the rules one year though. Nu Alpha Kappa decided to throw a party a week before recruitment at a club. It was a fundraiser as well. Since we are affliates, we kinda got away with it. But it sucked cuz some of our close friends in other organizations involved in IFC and NPC couldn't go... because of dry rush.

During our pledge program, if you are over 21, regardless if you are a new member or active, you are allowed to have alcohol at an event. If you aren't 21, you don't drink at events. However, girls (if they prefer) can drink at pre parties before mixers, formals, etc. There are also certain restrictions/rules set for drinking at events. (No games, no sports bottles, only allowed to have one drink at a time, etc.)

And duh... no drinking in letters... or buying alcohol in letters. We added smoking later as well.

But if a new member can legally get into a 21+ club/bar with other sisters, friends, etc, she can drink.

We have girls that just don't drink at all too.

Do you also forbid initiated sisters who are under 21 to drink in the presence of each other? If not, then you're still separating the two groups of girls in a negative way.

I think the main problem is that some people in this thread are speaking of OFFICIAL sorority functions, and others mean the ENTIRE period of time that the girl is a new member or pledge. I can require new members who are under 21 to abstain from drinking at our semi-formal, because that is a violation of the law. However, whether as Leigh Anne or as an initated sister of Phi Mu, I CANNOT and should not tell any one of our new members that she is not allowed to drink at a fraternity party... yes, it is against the law if she is under 21, but that is not MY decision, it's hers. I am a New Member Educator, not a New Member Dictator.

Exactly. Nobody should ever be drinking at an official sorority function, 21 or not, but if two new members want to go fratting, who am I to tell them they can't just because they're under 21? I can tell them not to do it in our letters, but I can't tell them not to do it.

I also think this idea of forcing your pledges to stay dry would cause a big drunken party about 10 seconds after the initiation was over.

Can I just pose a scenario to all of the girls in this forum who think it's hazing?

Suppose you have a girl, Nina New Member, who is underage and who, during pledging, goes to a party with some friends, drinks too much, and is sent to the hospital with alcohol poisoning. Everyone knows that Nina is pledging JKL (felt like using new letters for a change, LOL) and it raises eyebrows with the school Panhellenic and possibly with JKL's nationals.

Now, suppose instead that JKL told their nm's that they're dry during pledging. Sure some of the girls might not be too happy about that, but in the long run, wouldn't it be better for JKL because it would be a sort of risk management?

No. That's controlling her life. Why should we direct every move of hers? Why should an ACTIVE who is underage drink and be able to tell a pledge she can't?

No no no no no. JKL should not get in trouble if it wasn't a JKL function.

IMO, Nina should be sent to whatever standards or discipline type committee that JKL has, because what she did was not upholding the standards of JKL. It is a shame that the sisters of JKL, unofficially, did not keep a watchful eye on Nina's drinking (if they were at the party) out of sisterly concern for her. HOWEVER, this is not a fraternity risk management issue, because the party is not a function of JKL. It is an issue of Nina choosing unwisely.