Bush/Kerry thread
 

I'm not sure if there's a thread about them yet, but I figured I could start a new one if there is.


Ok, feel free to express you're thoughts on either politician and what you think about their politics. Personally, I think Kerry is playing dirty politics and trying to confuse people.

One of my main issues with this guy is that he's trying to confuse the stupid people out there about taxes, job creation and the current unemployment rate.

Current tax laws allow American companies to defer paying taxes on income earned by their foreign subsidiaries until they bring it back to the United States. If they keep the money abroad, they avoid paying U.S. taxes entirely.

Kerry would require companies to pay taxes on their international income as they earn it rather than being allow to defer it. The new system would apply to profits earned in future years only, not retroactively.

Kerry also would lower corporate tax by 5%. Kerry stated he would also create 10 million new jobs.

Ok lets examine why this is BAD FOR THE ECONOMY.
Lowering taxes on corporations .. thats good. More jobs will be created from that, as well as higher pay. Ten Million jobs is also good.. but is it possible. That many new jobs would send unemployment well under 3% thus causing eventually causing work shortages in areas. Higher pay would result in low skill jobs. OK your asking where's the bad... well higher pay for low skill jobs equals higher prices in products. Higher cost of living which results in MORE POOR PEOPLE. Which results in less customer demand. Which results in LAYOFFS.. thus unemployment is back. Unless you start shipping jobs overseas (like we are doing now).
Now taxing corporations that send jobs overseas will have a similar effect. It will not stop jobs from being sent overseas as these jobs are most likely low skill level jobs. What will happen is loss of jobs in the US as taxes are collected from those companies. Does the 5% tax cut out way this.. HELL NO. 5% off of what currently is 38%= 33% (estimate) But in dealing with the loop holes 33% of what is currently 0% =33%. In essence products sold in the US could see a rise in cost of producing DOUBLE possibly (not in all but some). Rising prices lowers customer demand. Lowering customer demand equals LAYOFFS. Thus creating MORE UNEMPLOYMENT.

Kerry isn't trying to help the American economy or the Americans. Kerry is simply trying to confuse you and gain votes. This stuff is BASIC ECONOMIC stuff.. that any sophomore in college should be learning.

Thus why I'm voting for Bush along with my folks :)

Well, when it comes to economics.. technically both parties are bad. Republicans are bad and Democrats are even worse. Thats just the nature of politics. Separation of Economics and Politics should be a constitutional amendment. Libertarians seem to understand economics better in the sense of... they let the free market work itself out. A hands off policy that only intervenes when markets step on legal toes.

Bush is just as bad tring to scare people with terrorism. It worked in 2002 so why not use it again. The FBI and CIA and the now homeland security deal with the threats not the President. They would do the same job if Kerry was in office. Kerry is not going to go in and say ok lets stop hunting terrorist. He might not pull an Iraq like Bush did though. Everything coming out and the two former aides speaking out about him don't make him look any better about it. I think the US would be as safe now if we didn't attack Iraq. Yes it's good we got out the bad guy, but if your going to war at least make that your primary reason instead of claiming he has WMD's to justify it to the world. Iran and North Korea are more of a threat to the US than Iraq ever was since they are working on Nukes. Iraq hadn't even come close since Bush Sr. Kerry and everyone never complained about hunting terrorist that pose a threat to us in the near future and thats why no one ever complains about Afganistan. To say any party would just let terrorist over run us is just silly.
Least John McCain hasn't stooped to calling Kerry weak on terrorism.

i'm just posting to get in before this thread gets locked or deleted or moved.

Kitso
KS 361 times i'm voting for Coach K for president

I like the way Kerry at one point in time agrees with every single issue...he's a seasoned politician...nobody i'd want to see in the whitehouse...he's so full of crap its a shame...

From what I understand- Kerry's economic plan would not increase taxes on families earning 200,000.00 or less. There is an increase in taxes within his DEcrease in taxes for world wide corporations because any American Company with overseas ties would end up being double taxed (here and there)...and that has never happened in US history. I LIKE it for companies that are outsourcing even though many will disagree.

I'm not sure about the logic on increased wages. I recall in the early 80's when the petro-chem bust occurred, all suffered. Yes, you do run the risk of inflation, but when people earn money, they spend money. Business flourishes and growth is possible.
We need more jobs, we need more production.

NAFTA SUCKS! I believe BOTH supported it.

I am with those who believe Clinton handed a fading economy to Bush, so I believe we are seeing an economic recovery of the Republican's making.

It's pretty obvious that Clark is lying about the state of security pre 9-11. I think much has been learned by the seat of our pants.
We have so far to go. Bush didn't hesitate to recognize it was an act of war against us. I do not have the same confidence in Kerry.
Along these lines-His comment about being supported by world leaders makes me think WHY is he in communication with these people at this time, AND do we really want someone in the White House that OTHER countries desire to lead us? Lead us where, into their pockets? Both candidates NEED to take a closer look at our borders-immigration and our PORTS!

I do not like the way Kerry has changed and re-changed his political positions depending on his audience. I think he's "green"
and his wife represents everything he's supposed to be against?!?:rolleyes: I may not like everything Bush does, but you pretty well know where he stands.

Plus, as one talk show host put it-Kerry LOOKS like a Frenchman, and I'm still a little ticked off at them!:p

I hadn't thought of that.

and how the hell is that again?

Interesting concept, though I don't see how it could possibly work. What would you propose? I agree about the libertarians understanding certain economic issues much better than the leading two parties.

bethany, I wonder if it's because they don't have as many interests to answer to.

I thought Perot had a pretty, darn good grasp.

well.. i think for now i'm going to vote for nadar... i live in new york which is a pretty democratic state and i think that nadar needs the funding for his next political campaign. however... with that said- i am a pretty liberal democrat.... i have been pretty confused with this whole kerry thing... i have read articles and stuff that you guys have posted and i've been keeping up with news and things like that....

i know the things htat matter to me really ... education... abortion... terrorism and the war on iraq... relations in the middle east- israel and palestine... and the environment... (thats all i can think of right now... and those aren't in any particular order)

i read an interesting article on msn about the topic:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4609893/
i thought the part about bush pushing for internet for all of american considering this was a gore platform... also he is for oil exploration in alaska... OF COURSE HE IS... he isn't going to try to help fund other sources of electricity- he's just going to destroy the earth some more...

the thing about kerry's wife that i read in another thread- hmm as james said- i don't really think thats an indication of what a job kerry can do... she just happened to be born in another country... maybe i just don't get the significance... thats just my opinion...

Seperation is completely impossible but maybe a way of giving a bit more power of purse strings to economic advisers. Cause its obvious no else in washington on either side of the aisle can control their spending.

I'm not sure whether I should be laughing or scratching my head.

Where was he wrong? Don't ask where he was right, that's the easy way. Oh well, that would spoil the thread so I'll just say one word...NAFTA!

Yea, NAFTA was a crock of shit.

I saw this comment on another site and thought it was funny...


"And one last thing, make SURE you don't admit to ANYTHING!"

http://i.timeinc.net/time/photoessay...mages/sat2.jpg

PRICELESS!:D

But why would Bush say that?

Ok I sat through I guess 10 minutes of "20 million questions for Kerry" after the Real World last night. I could not believe my ears and eyes....they were actually glorifying the fact that he turned against his country, and disgraced the millitary.
People were asking him questions like....
"Were you cool in college?"
"What are you going to do for me?"
I couldn't watch anymore. I think the voting age should be raised to 21 if the 18 year olds can't focus more in important issues. Trying to vote for someone just because you relate with them isn't realistic. There are way too many morons in the world these days. One girl said "Im voting for anyone that isn't bush." Now why is it that people are so angry with Bush that they would rather elect a toilet into office? And what does this 18 year old TRL watching highschool senior really know that made her feel this way?
I seriously think that MTV needs to get off the liberal spinwheel and show the american youth both sides of the campaign....It is rediculous that the 18-23 age group of voters is permiated by such partisan bullshit!!!!

Damn right Jam! For those of you who need a little more depth in to what Jam is trying to say....

Presidents have very little to do with the economy and national debt. Yes they can have an impact but nothing like Congress.
Clinton did NEITHER.. During the Clinton admin the economy grew due to Internet and dumbasses investing in Internet buisnesses that didnt even have a buisness plan. Hence the stock market crash that occurred just before he left office.
Clinton also NEVER got rid of national debt.. matter of fact he didnt even lower the national debt. He did run a surplus on the national budget.. meaning he taxed us mored than he could spend. Far as the surplus.. anyone who has taken a economic class can tell you. A gov is suppose to be able to run a surplus during peace time, and a debt in times of war. This is typical. Now regardless of what many of you think of Bush, Bush did the opposite.. Ummm.... we just went thru the FASTEST growth quarter of the last 30yrs. Unemployment is lower than it ever was under Clinton, as well as the major countries of Europe.
Seriously .. go look at the unemployment rate of Germany or France.. then look at our.. hahaha we kicked their euro asses!

Dude, this is your best post ever. :)

MTV has been spinning uberliberal for a long time and it's why we also are subjected to their screwed up view of Greek life - why in RW Hawaii Amaya (the sorority girl) was made to look like the total jerk and Kaia who was the backstabbingest, phoniest person I've ever seen on one of those shows was practically deified.

All I can say about the "Anybody/thing/sentient being But Bush" rhetoric is "Be careful what you wish for, or you will surely get it."

I really think that the economic problems we are having are a result of a combination of events - Sept. 11th, the war in Iraq, the dot com bust of the stock market in 2000, and fraud such as Enron, Tyco, etc. I really don't think that you can blame President Clinton or President Bush. I'm sure that there are other factors that I didn't mention.

I haven't watched MTV in a long time, but that story really disturbs me.

The unemployment figures are difficult to calculate because once someone no longer receives benefits, they are off the unemployment list. There are many people who are unemployed, underemployed, employed part time, or on a temporary basis who do not qualify for unemployment benefits. I know many people who have been out of work for over a year and have used up their benefits, but cannot find a full time job.

Yea, they totally screwed up the view on Greek life. What pissed me off about MTV's whole greek life fling was that they used some shitty sorority and a shitty no name frat to show the public what being greek is supposed to be like. I dont understand, why couldn't they use a GLO like ZTA or DG or KD or ADPi....instead they used some sorority that 99% of the greeks in this country have never heard of. I guess some GLOs probably wouldn't allow it...but still, they could have come up with something better than whatever that sorority's name is. And I don't even want to get started on the frat they used, the guys in that frat looked like they were chess club members.

NPCs aren't allowed to participate in MTV's Greek Life.

Interesting, but NPCs were allowed to appear in the History channel's greek show? I know MTV and the History Channel are completely different from each other......but I'm wondering if they're were'nt allowed to participate just because it was MTV?

not really SL/FL
 

My complaint was more geared to the fact that when someone on RW or RR says they are Greek and proud of it, they're edited to make them look like a-holes. Mike (the Miz) was another example.

Hasn't anyone figured out what MTV is about yet?

SENSATIONALISM.

If you understand that, and still choose to watch it, why waste the breath to bitch about it?

the fact that it's mtv probably played a part of it, but NPC doesn't really like chapters giving interviews to any news/television source. none of the chapters on my campus were allowed to talk to MSNBC when they were coming to do a story about greek life.

Re: not really SL/FL
 

Hahahaha!!!! I liked Mike. :D

Re: not really SL/FL
 

I know, I know. It sucks. But I look at it this way, most of the crew members who edit that show and make greeks look bad were probably people who were outcasts in college or people who tried to rush but never got bids. Those are the only reasons why people hate on greeks. The people who were'nt outcasts and who didnt rush dont really have an opinion on greeks at all.

They are? Ever met anyone from MTV?

D A, What do you think?

I know the two of us have been around a lot of people in the music/entertainment industry. (You're on a way different level though.)

I think there is a different outlook as far as politics goes-much more liberal. It's hard to blend music about "social consciousness" with what others "believe" being a Republican is all about. I think many draw the same conclusions about Greeks.

I know many couldn't believe I was in a sorority (as rarely as it came up) and thought I was joking. My daughter is friends with
many different bands. She wears "DG" everywhere. They can't believe she is Greek and swear she is an exception to the system. Has it changed all that much?

PS-Bob Dylan sold out!!!:( I saw him in a commercial last night!
Does he need the money?

JAM,

I think you're right, but in terms of MTV, I don't believe there is any particular ideology behind their content decisions -- they simply want controversy at every turn.

They make everything look slimey. Oh, wait, that's Nick that slimes people. Oh, wait, they're owned by the same company.

While I think that MTV does get more than its share of "music biz" types, a lot of their folks are fairly typical young broadcasters who do what they do because that's what they're paid for. Or they want to continue their youthful rebellion. Do something long enough, and you start believing it's right.

They're not liberal, they're anarchists.

But then we went through many threads about MTV's programming morality when they started the Sorority Life show a couple years ago.

The thing is that they know that no matter how bad they tick young people off -- they'll still watch.

D A-While I think that MTV does get more than its share of "music biz" types, a lot of their folks are fairly typical young broadcasters who do what they do because that's what they're paid for. Or they want to continue their youthful rebellion. Do something long enough, and you start believing it's right .

Makes a LOT of sense!