Pitt asks NPHC groups to expand
 

This should spark some interesting discussion. It is true though, that student organizations on Pitt's campus are to have at least 10 members to be recognized. I also wonder if this has something to do with funding. NPHC, like NPC/IFC and other student governance groups get more funding than other groups (the individual fraternities and sororities do not get funding from the university, only their governing body)- perhaps the money that they're getting, when translated out per student, is way above and beyond what other student groups get? Just a guess on my part. In any event, it's interesting.

Pitt News article about NPHC groups being asked to expand

Depending on minorirty enrollment I don't think that any organization with fewer than ten students will be able to maintain that number in order to keep recongition. As the NPHC president stated, in most orgs you have to either be a 2nd semester freshman or have achieved sophomore status to even submit an application. We do not take everyone that applies or even a large portion of those folks, so even if the NPHC groups were allowed to have intake in both the fall and the spring, which violates at least one orgs policy on when intake can be conducted, it still wouldn't NECESSARILY get their numbers up. True it's easier to run the type of chapter you want with more people but I've seen very productive, influential chapters that have between five and ten members in them. Only one of the NPHC orgs here have membership of ten or more members. However, those present are very active and host a number of activities over the course of the year. I'm not sure what the motivation is behind the larger chapter push but honestly I can only think of a few male NPHC groups that have really large chapters on PWI campuses.

Not true. There are some chapters that are large and not necessarily as effective as a small chapter.

Numbers are smaller for NPHC orgs at PWIs because there is a smaller number of Black students. Example, went to Wittenberg with 2100 students, 170 were Black. There were 3 BGLOs campus recognized and affiliated. Not all 170 Black students wanted to join a fraternity or sorority. Of those that did, some did not want to join the 3 on campus.

To give the NPHC a minimum membership quota will adversely affect Greek relations, recruitment and retention of Black students.

To put out some numbers: there are 15,435 undergrad students at Pitt. 21% minority- I belive that it's about 10% black students.

We have a VERY active Black Student Association. It'll be interesting to see if they take a stance.

Also just because the NPHC orgs might not be as visible on campus like NPC and IFC does not mean they are not doing the work that is set forth by the National headquarters.


Quantity does not equal quality. I was born in a small chapter. Thank God that Witt did not try to control us.

**hijack- i love crimson tide's location:D***end hijack

This is going to be very interesting. If enacted this policy would definetely cause a lot, if not all, of the NPHC orgs to disapear from campus. I wonder if he has any suggestions on how they are supposed to miraculously increase their numbers. :rolleyes:

Birney is high on the crack.

Does she have ANY understanding of how NPHC groups choose their members, why their membership selection works that way, and that all Greeks are not the same?????

Also, are any of the NPHC groups there part of citywide chapters?

What's next - saying Alpha Phi Omega has more women than men, therefore it must be a sorority and they have to move into Amos Hall?? This has me pissed off, and I'm not an NPHC member or a Pitt student.

I totally agree with CT4. I too attended a PWI (Denison). Ironically, we had three sororities(AKA, Delta, SGRho), and 1 fraternity(APHIA) recognized on campus, and 2 members of Sigma-that we not recognized. Our enrollment must have been 2200, with about 150-170 Black folks, some who joined white frats and sororities. They had NO knowledge base on NPHC groups; they had no interest. Somehow these groups stayed afloat. In my time there, we never had more that five bruhs on the yard. If this type of thing occurs, it is a possibility that many of these chapters will vanish-especially fraternities. For some reason, it seems so hard for these guys to get their GPAs together. In addition, its about quality, not quantity in our groups, this is a life long commitment.

**CT4, I still keep in contact with my bruhs from Xi Chi.

And I think this is a piss-poor time to do something like this, when WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A GREEK ADVISOR!!!

I think I mentioned it but my brother went to Denison from 1997-2001. He was on the football team and most people called him 8s.

Okay, I'm confused. Pitt requires campus organizations to have 10 members to be recognized.
Obviously NPHC intake methods are different from those of the NIC and NPC. To force NPHC groups to increase members (at least on this campus) would be asking them to eitehr violate their membership procedures or to change them. Neither of which, I am assuming, they want to do.
I guess my question is, so what if they pull recognition. What does recognition off your organizations that these groups couldn't possibly live with out?

On my campus, GLO's are not recognized. But we are recognized by our respective organizations.
Recognition on campus gives us the right to advertise (pretty much anywhere, whereas right now we're very limited in where we can poster). We could receive funidng from the school. It would probably be easier if we were recognized by the school, but we do alright without them.
So what would happen to the greek organizations at Pitt if the school pulled recognition?

Well for one, NPHC would lose funding that they use to go to conferences, etc. That's a biggie.

They wouldn't be able to advertise on campus.

They wouldnt' be able to reserve campus rooms for meetings (i'm 99% sure).

That's what I can think of off the top of my head.

It crossed my mind that this is a roundabout Title IX-ish way to try and get rid of the IFC and NPC groups. If the NPHC groups pull out or die out, which will probably happen if this issue is forced, they can say "well there are no NPHC groups so there isn't equal representation so we can't have IFC/NPC groups either."

Not that this would hold a drop of water, but it seems to fit in with the thought processes of this crew.

Recruiting
 

In the article, it is mentioned that the school wants to see recruitment plans. Sorry, Pitt, but WE DON'T RECRUIT.

I was also born in a small chapter (there were 3 on my line and we were citywide!) and feel that we must remain selective in our membership. Not every Black student in the small population at a PWI is even interested in Greek Life, some of those choose NPC/IFC orgs, others don't have the grades or time to committ and yet others don't have the $ to pledge. After you get through all of these filters, then you need to select those who apply and from among those applicants, who is a good fit. It is definitely a process that needs to be communicated to this Pitt administration so they can get buy a clue!

OK, I'm looking for some info here, cause I don't really understand. I know NPC/NIC is different from NPHC, but I'm wanting to learn a little more background on this. NPHC members, please!

1. What is inherently wrong with having 10 members in a chapter? (Forget about the "less than 10 and your not recognized" rule for a minute. And forget about the percentage of potential members on campus. In fact, don't even think about a campus when answering this.) Simply from a chapter/operational/National standpoint, is there a problem with having more than 10 members in a chapter? I'm not talking about having 70 or 80 members....but what about 10-15?

2. What does your HQ say about chapter size? Do they want you to be at a certain size? Or is that not even discussed between HQ and chapters?

3. :eek: Is that really true that you pay all those dues up front? Whoa!! I can see how that would be a deterrent in recruiting members. Any way to change that or spread that payment out some? How do first generation college students actually afford that?

4. I might be treading on thin ice here, but answer with what you can reveal.....Do you "actively recruit" members, or wait for them to approach you? I'm not talking about hanging posters everywhere and having a big COB party....but what if I were an AKA and I had a good friend that I had met through several classes together. We know each other pretty well and I know she would make a great AKA (live up to the standards, be active, etc.). Could I mention that to her ("Have you ever thought about joining a sorority?") or even invite her to one of the info sessions? Or do I have to wait for her to express an interest on her own?

I'm asking all of these questions because I have an opinion on this article, but it's not a solid one, and I would like more background info before really deciding about it. Coming from my NPC background (and a chapter that was down to less than 10 members in my lifetime), my first gut reaction was "Why would anyone want to have less than 10 members???" But then I read 33girl's post and figured that maybe I need more info before jumping to that conclusion.

Anyway, thanks in advance for educating me!!!
PsychTau

Also to add, without campus recognition there is no intake at that school on the undergrad level.

I'm not totally sure, the article is unclear, on whether or not NPHC would lose recognition. But if you take away the individual chapters, say there's only 1 or 2 with over 10 members that keep their recognition, then is there really a point of a governing body? At least a point in the administration's eyes to continue to fund?

Allocations of the activity fees are always a big contraversy on campus, and even though the article doesn't talk about it, I really think that this may be at least a small part of the reason. I'm not sure how much NPHC gets, but they get more than the usual student group.

Hopefully SigEp42 can join in on this discussion, he has a much great knowledge of the allocations process, etc. and the current state of the greek system at Pitt.

* Paging Jesse *

There is NOTHING wrong with having more than 10 members in a chapter. It would be great if that happened but when you factor in:


McCoyred stated
Not every Black student in the small population at a PWI is even interested in Greek Life, some of those choose NPC/IFC orgs, others don't have the grades or time to committ and yet others don't have the $ to pledge. After you get through all of these filters, then you need to select those who apply and from among those applicants, who is a good fit. It is definitely a process that needs to be communicated to this Pitt administration so they can get buy a clue!

Is that and NPHC policy?

Question: Would it force them to violate their membership procedures? What about the chapters at different schools that actually do have more than 10 members? Are they violating their own membership procedures?

I guess my point on this is that the actual membership procedures wouldn't necessarily have to change in order to have more than 10 members. What would have to change would be attracting enough interested members who meet the membership requirements (GPA, $$, etc) so that you could intake them and wind up with 10 or more members. Granted, it might be tough for the chapter with 2 members to intake 5 in one semester, but for the group that has maybe 6 or 8 members, would it be too hard for them to exceed the 10 member threshold?

I know some people on this thread have mentioned the percentage of potential members available on a campus to pick from (i.e. the number of black students on a campus). If the NPHC groups held more members, would that potentially attract more black students to that campus? (That's just a curiosity question there....)

PsychTau

I don't think any greek organization should be getting money from the campus. It works out better for everyone.

-Rudey

Maybe that's a little extreme. But from my understanding is that the problem (at elast on Pitt's campus) is that there aren't enough people who express and interest in the NPHC orgs.
If the school is forcing them to increase their membership it may mean that in order to have more members they would have to take people that do not meet their standards.

Those fees should go to other activities other than Greek life in my opinion.

-Rudey

If the schools didn't fund student organizations, then students themselves would have to pay upfront money to join campus organizations, which potentially means they could be very costly.
I think what Rudy means is that if you want o participate ine xtracurricular activites then you do so on your own dime.

I definitly agree with you here. I myself have no understanding about NPHC membership selection. But is there any way these groups could educate school officials about membership selection, of course without revealing what non-members are not supposed to know?

1. Nothing really wrong with having 10 to 15 members but realistically on some campuses that isn't possible. While the sororities were large on my HBCU campus, even on my campus the NPHC fraternities never hit 15 members. It's not a matter of trying to keep numbers low but a matter of interest on the part of non-Greeks, selection and competition from other groups.

2. Only HQ decides what the minimum number of people that can be in a chapter and even with that, in certain orgs, they can have time to try to reach that number before a chapter is deactivated.

3. Yes, we pay up front, and for Delta now you are paying up front for two years. Anyone interesting in BGLO life tends to know the financial burden will be great and either work to get the funds, use extra money they have from school or parents help finance that. First generation students don't really get a break there, we seem to know going in what's expected there. And there's NO way to space that out.

4. As someone say we can encourage people to come to RUSH but we do not recruit. The NPHC process is more of an attend events, get to know members, attend formal RUSH and apply for the chance to become a member. There isn't a lot of chances post the RUSH party to interact with members of NPHC sororities if you are applying.

And we wouldn't take anyone that doesn't meet at least BASIC requirements. We can't be forced to just to make a 10 person quota.

The process is not private information. People submit applications and if they meet basic reqs they will be invited to the next stage of the process but it's up to the chapters, in most cases, to decide which of the candidate pool will be invited to membership.

Thankyou for clearing that up for me.

Another question. Wouldn't your HQ help out a chapter should the chapter not be able to send the president to national convention ( to use your example)?

I'd like to see GLOs be as separate an entity from the schools as possible for risk management issues. I also know that many GLOs pay for chapter representatives to come to a convention. If the school is paying, I guess, then perhaps all GLOs should try and get their free money as well.

What else do schools cover for GLOs? My school didn't so I'm wondering. Do other fraternities and sororities get their social events paid for??

-Rudey

The money given to them is to fund the governance groups, NOT the individual groups.

yes, i meant at Pitt. Sorry, should've been more specific.

[font=papyrus]all chapters are expected to fund delegates for mandatory conventions and conferences. i will say that there is a difference between collegiate and alumnae costs, but all chapters must send the delegates.

This chaps my hide.

I also attended a PWI and pre-Proposition 209, also known as the ban on affirmative action, I came from what would be considered a large chapter (for a PWI). There were 15 on the line before mine, 18 on my line, 23 on the line after mine, then 10 on the line after. AT any one time, there were 30 Sorors runnin' the campus (and I mean that). There was also a high representation of the other NPHC orgs, of which every one was represented (except for the Bruhs, of which there were consistently like, 4).

Now, my undergrad chapter just had a line come through of 4, the line before that was 6, the line before that 5. There are only 2 members of the chapter that have to do everything. All POST prop 209. For the next school year, the University admitted 175 Black people...INCLUDING ATHLETES!!!

I'm real nervous about what that means for not only the NPHC orgs, but for the state of the Black Union altogether. We are organizations that do major community and public service. Other campus orgs also do (I mean like Afrcian Education or Black Hypertension). With 175 Black folks, all of which will not be involved in community orgs, Sororities and Frats, etc., it looks real bleek. Headquarters already requires certain numbers for Intake to even be possible. If this university made it so that NPHC orgs could not get funding from campus resources, reserve rooms, or anything, we'd be screwed.

I just wish that people would try and understand the difference between the groups and the ways in which low enrollment of Black folks in the first place, affects NPHC orgs ability to have high membership.

I'm sad.

I think I need this to be clarified...so you're saying that if a group is not recognized on campus, they should not be pledging students from that campus?

Also, I think this is related. If some of y'all in the NPHC constantly preach that you are no more blacks-only than the NIC/NPC is whites-only, why does the number of black students on campus matter? I attend a school that review.com says is only 5% minority, but due to our size, that's 500 Af-Am students, and I'm fairly sure that there are more and PR's figures are off. Despite that, I think the largest NPHC chapter I've seen here is 4 people, and none of them have a non Af-Am member. Why is this?

While I think you know the answer to your own question, I will attempt to answer.

While NPHC orgs are not "blacks-only" it is a common fact that the majority of our members are African American. Why? Because of the foundation of the 9 orgs that represent the NPHC, the histories, the missions, etc. Remember, as I said in my post, the NPHC orgs make service to the community the NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. We are not social organizations. If that were the case then perhaps the "come on come all" attitude would prevail. While we are not discriminatory, we do attract potentials that have a personal mission to do community service primarily in the Black community or in low-income communities or communities that don't have a "voice."

Therefore, it matters a great deal the number of Blacks on a campus. Is it not ironic that NPC and IFC orgs don't have the same push to increase numbers on the PWIs as NPHC orgs? No. Why? because there are a majority of people to represent the predominant group of people representative in those orgs.

IF (let's use our imaginations here) Tri Delts (as an example) tried to establish something on say Howard's campus, I can assure you that they'd have a time trying to get huge membership on that campus.

Also,since we don't recruit it matters that there aren't huge numbers of Black folks on campus because Black folks tend to be the people interested in membership.